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Fortress Europe (Alpha 0.3 - May 25th)

  1. #1

    Fortress Europe (Alpha 0.3 - May 25th)


    Fortress Europe

    WEBSITE DOWN
    Looking for new host




    EDIT: I have completely deleted all the old content from this 1st post. Most of it was horribly out of date and no longer representative of what the mod will be.



    Fortress Europe is a mod for Company of Heroes and Opposing Fronts (NOTE: Both products must be purchased) that introduces the following major game play changes.

    1. There is no base building. The starting Headquarters does not serve a purpose any longer, and you cannot build Barracks, Tank Depots, Kampfkraft centers, or any other base building.
    2. All units arrive from off the map. Nothing is built on the map, it all deploys from the starting entrance road in your territory.
    3. You do not buy technology upgrades for your force. There is no "Escalate to Skirmish" upgrade, or need to build a Supply Depot, in order to unlock units. The only thing preventing you from deploying a powerful unit is its initial cost.

    In addition to these major points, there's a few more game play changes.

    4. You cannot spam a single unit endlessly. There is a hard limit on the number of any particular unit that can be deployed during a game, and this limit varies depending on the company the player chooses (More on that below). This represents the reality that there is no infinite reserve of anything in an army.
    5. There is no magical off-screen artillery that can target anything the player can see. Artillery is handled through special Observer units that direct artillery units to barrage the targeted area. If an observer can't see the target, the artillery can't fire on it. The observer's ability to call in a strike takes 10 seconds or more to finish, and forces all artillery of the specified type to fire (Similar to Victor Target).
    6. Infantry and some weapon teams automatically conceal themselves when in cover. Infantry in light cover or better automatically disappear from view until you get within a certain distance, allowing them to sneak around the battlefield and ambush enemies. Some elite units retain the ability to remain concealed when in the open.

    Companies

    At the beginning of the game, every player must choose a Company before they can begin deploying units. Your choice of company determines what units are available and in what quantity. These are all based off of actual Tables of Organization and Equipment (TO&E, or KStN for German companies) in use during World War 2.

    Your choice of company also determines what "perks" your company has available to it. Perks are advantages specific to your company's training or equipment, and can only be chosen at the very beginning of the game. Once chosen, you cannot undo your choice or pick another. Perks will not be available in the first beta release of the mod.

    Here is a current list of all the companies, broken down by nation:

    American
    Rifle Company
    Armored Rifle Company
    Ranger Company
    Parachute Rifle Company
    Tank Company
    Cavalry Recon Troop

    British
    Rifle Company
    Motor Company
    Royal Army Commando Troop
    Air Landing Company
    Armoured Squadron
    Tank Squadron

    German
    Grenadierkompanie
    Panzergrenadierkompanie
    Fallschirmjägerkompanie
    Aufklärungsschwadron
    Panzerkompanie
    Schwere Panzerkompanie

    Doctrines

    Doctrines no longer contain reinforcements or off-map support. Most advantages of the old doctrine system now exist in the Perk system, or are available as normal units. Instead the Doctrines will focus on short-term tactics within the framework of three "Personalities"
    Aggressive - Nothing you do is ever half-hearted; experience has led you to prefer decisive attacks and overwhelming defenses. Though your massive assaults and rigid defenses lead to high casualties, the results speak for themselves as they leave the enemy shattered.
    Evasive - Your tactical abilities are focused on out-maneuvering the enemy and striking at the time and place of your choosing. You do not waste men in lengthy battles of attrition, preferring to hit at weak points, or avoid the enemy altogether if you are out-numbered.
    Cautious - Experience has taught you to not march into a trap, and to always expect the enemy to be stronger than anticipated. Your movements are carefully planned and you are rarely taken by surprise.

    Once you have purchased a tactic from your doctrine with command points, you have one usage of that tactic available to you. Once it is used, the tactic can be purchased again from the doctrine menu. Tactics do not need to be purchased in a specific order. Command points are easier to accrue than before, encouraging the player to use their tactics rather than hoarding them for a rainy day. Here is an example of a tactic from the Aggressive doctrine:
    Hold at all Costs - Infantry near the officer using this tactic cannot retreat and move slowly, but cannot be suppressed and fire faster. Lasts for thirty seconds.

    Mechanical Realism

    1. All guns have relatively realistic penetration. The KwK43 88mm on the Jagdpanther and Tiger II is going to cleave through any armour at any distance. On the lower end, the KwK38 20mm on the SdKfz 234/1 and SdKfz 222 has no chance of penetrating any tank armour, except the rear of some medium and light tanks.
    2. All tank guns have their damage brought closer together. The damage from an 88mm is still greater than a 75mm, but not as substantially greater as it once was. The damage from a 37mm (like from the Stuart's M5 37mm gun) is not so minor that a penetrating hit on a tank goes unnoticed.
    3. All infantry have the same hit points. The only defensive factor amongst troops is that better trained men are harder to hit and harder to suppress.
    4. Sight ranges on all units are set to 60m, camouflage detection radius varies. The ability to see terrain and enemies in the open is uniform across the board, but spotting hidden enemies is not. A medium or heavy tank is a very poor choice for spotting concealed units, while infantry are much better, and reconnaissance units are the best.
    5. Gun ranges have been scaled within the new sight range. The maximum range of a direct fire gun is 60m, and weapons vary from 60m to 16m in range. Small arms occupy the 36m range and below, and tank guns are 44mm and up in range. Infantry anti-tank rockets have a range of 24m or 28m, making it crucial that infantry ambush tanks at shorter ranges and not approach in the open where the tank can use its superior range.
    6. Vehicle-mounted machine-guns are as effective as squad-carried machine-guns. The hull and co-axial machine-guns on tanks and some vehicles function as well as their infantry equivalent, and can suppress just as well.

    Unit Organization

    1. Most units are deployed to the battlefield in squad/section groups. If a particular platoon is divided into two sections, and each section has a Jeep and a Recon squad, then every usage of the deployment ability gives you one Jeep and a Recon squad.
    2. Units are sorted into platoons. In order to deploy sections/squads, you need to purchase an upgrade for the platoon that contains them. This upgrade then provides a set number of sections/squads appropriate to the platoon's historical size. For example, purchasing the British Armoured platoon (Sherman V) upgrade allows you to purchase and deploy up to three Sherman V tanks and up to one Firefly VC tank. Once you have expended all the tanks in the platoon, you will need to buy the upgrade again (If your company is allowed access to more than one platoon of that type, not all are).
    3. Platoons are organized by category. Sometimes there's a choice as to what equipment or organization a platoon might have. For example, a British Armoured platoon can either be equipped with Sherman V tanks or Cromwell IV tanks. If your company is allowed one or more Armoured platoons, you can choose either, but both count as an Armoured platoon. Choosing one uses up a single choice from that category. The amount of platoons available in a single category is shown in the bottom right corner of the upgrade button, while the bottom left corner shows a symbol for what category it falls under.
    Last edited by Sturmhaubitze; 27th Jan 09 at 2:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Member Mirage Knight's Avatar
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    This mod is definitely on my watch list

    Are you going to implement historically accurate squad sizes as well?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage Knight
    This mod is definitely on my watch list

    Are you going to implement historically accurate squad sizes as well?
    I'm still toying with the idea. I have no qualms with keeping things the way they are, since they tended to split squads up into teams anyways in practice. A full squad of 8+ men was sometimes given a task meant for two or more squads, so they had no choice but to split up. The current "squad" sizes approximates what a team usually came down to.

    If I did do realistic squad sizes, it would greatly improve the staying power of infantry versus some attacks, though you'd have difficult cramming them all into cover, so their overall life expectancy would be the same. It's a fairly even trade-off in my opinion, so it all comes down to whether it works out well in-game.

    I am adjusting some "team" sizes to fix some glaring problems. For example, the Pionier team is now four men rather than two, and Combat Engineers are five men. Engineer/Pioniers are also better combatants, and only slightly worse than Riflemen/Grenadiers, considering their main role was to be out in the field clearing/making obstacles and assaulting fortified positions.

    Speaking of which, here's how Pioniers work as an example:
    - 4 man team, all armed with Kar98 rifles, though less effective than Grenadiers.
    - Will have a new ability for clearing Allied tanktraps using their blowtorches, but takes longer to clear than it does to build them.
    - Will have a new ability to deploy a goliath, though only one can be in the field at a time. Historically these were deployed by Pionier platoons and remote controlled this way.
    - Company-specific upgrade for "Panzerknackers", which was a broad category of improved antitank charges made from bundled grenades and antitank mines. These will act like sticky bombs, but with an even shorter throw range, more damage, but no automatic engine critical.
    - Flamethrower and minesweeper upgrades, as usual.
    - Company-specific upgrade for equipping the entire team with MP40's.
    - Company-specific upgrade for camouflage.
    Pioniers, not just for carpentry

    And Combat Engineers will have their own upgrades and improvements.

  4. #4
    The 22nd Hyperspace Core Corsix's Avatar
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    Pioneer changes sounding very interesting. I'll be keeping my eye (and my eye-R-C) on this/

  5. #5
    Taipan
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    Sounds good Cant wait to play!

  6. #6
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    This sounds good ! Sturmhaubitze, very nice. I like the setup uve done so far. This is gonna get watched by me

  7. #7
    I really like the sound of this mod, there's alot of micro already and replacing the base with a off-map one sounds pretty good. Great name too.

    Some questions/suggestions I wanna put out there :

    -Medics ? Will this be reworked ? Maybe troops retreat to an off map reserve where they can heal up then be called in at no cost, although the trade off being that they need to remain in reserve for a period of time before redeployed. Maybe jeeps could be made available to ferry wounded troops faster.

    -Mg nests and bunkers ? Guessing these won't be in but will there be any way to further fortify mg positions beyond sandbagging ? Tarp or somethun.

    -Reinforcements. Could all infantry arrive in transport vehicles rather than from the HQ ? Transport trucks could roll in and deploy standard infantry and assault squads could arrive in armoured transports as you've mentioned. Maybe a limited number of 8-10 transport trucks can be made available and destroying truck convoys has a significant impact on reinforcement. Destroyed troop trucks could be placed in a lengthy replacement que before being available again to slow reinforcement although something like 2 trucks minimum will always be available.

    -Vehicle/infantry upgrades off map and individual ? Veterancy ? Seemed odd to me that upgunning shermans and german veterancy is instantly applied to all current vehicles/infantry on the map. I reckon vehicles should be recalled off map and fitted individualy off map, the upgrade costing resources and the fitting of them to vehicles applied off map freely after that, then once fitted the vehicle can be redeployed with upgrades. Also would be an idea to allow recalled vehicles to remove upgrades, ie. removing armour plates provides a speed bonus and shermans can revert to the 75mm gun inorder to have a more effective anti-infantry main gun. Also veterancy could be organised the same as the current allied system for both sides but Germans could also gain the option to call in full veteran squads from the Eastern front at a cost + limited pool per game.

    Also infantry could have to be deployed with light machine guns or panzershreks rather than suddenly gaining equipent in the middle of a fire-fight. Possibly air drops and supply trucks loaded with weapons rather than troops could be an option to rapidly deploy heavy weapons to ill-equiped troops already in combat.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey C
    I really like the sound of this mod, there's alot of micro already and replacing the base with a off-map one sounds pretty good. Great name too.

    Some questions/suggestions I wanna put out there :

    -Medics ? Will this be reworked ? Maybe troops retreat to an off map reserve where they can heal up then be called in at no cost, although the trade off being that they need to remain in reserve for a period of time before redeployed. Maybe jeeps could be made available to ferry wounded troops faster.
    The first veterancy bonus for all unit types is a defensive one, to ensure the unit has a longer life expectancy and has a chance of seeing rank 2. For infantry this means getting health regeneration.
    There'll be other healing options as well, still exploring the possibilities and seeing what could/would work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey C
    -Mg nests and bunkers ? Guessing these won't be in but will there be any way to further fortify mg positions beyond sandbagging ? Tarp or somethun.
    Heavy Machinegun teams will be of more importance in this mod, and I'd prefer to keep it that way. With health regeneration and a received accuracy reduction at rank one, they'll survive longer. I imagine that the gameplay will be more dynamic and less conducive to turtling, considering that you no longer need to build several buildings and wait a while to get your first tank out, so an MG nest wouldn't be as useful as you'd think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey C
    -Reinforcements. Could all infantry arrive in transport vehicles rather than from the HQ ? Transport trucks could roll in and deploy standard infantry and assault squads could arrive in armoured transports as you've mentioned. Maybe a limited number of 8-10 transport trucks can be made available and destroying truck convoys has a significant impact on reinforcement. Destroyed troop trucks could be placed in a lengthy replacement que before being available again to slow reinforcement although something like 2 trucks minimum will always be available.
    Won't work, there's currently no way to make vehicles arrive with troops already in them. You'll be able to call in trucks for transport if you wish, but otherwise troops arrive without them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey C
    Also infantry could have to be deployed with light machine guns or panzershreks rather than suddenly gaining equipent in the middle of a fire-fight. Possibly air drops and supply trucks loaded with weapons rather than troops could be an option to rapidly deploy heavy weapons to ill-equiped troops already in combat.
    Using in-game upgrades is a necessary evil. I'm already short on places to put buttons for everything, so splitting up units into 'With upgrade X' and 'Without upgrade X' will be unfeasible. I'll likely explore the possibility of removing the 'in territory' status from resource points, so that you can only upgrade while in your HQ area.

  9. #9
    Some good answers, wasn't aware of the modding limitations.

    Guess without bunkers buildings are of much more value to capture. Should be pretty interesting !

  10. #10
    Member Vagyr Admiral's Avatar
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    umm... thats not soo corect... Sherman had best frontal armor in the war...

    and will there be a german Shwevelverfer?

    but had a weak rear
    The vaygr will rise once again!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagyr Admiral
    umm... thats not soo corect... Sherman had best frontal armor in the war...
    The M4A3 Sherman did not have the best frontal armour in the war. There are many many many tanks with more effective frontal armour, either through thickness or slope. It was tougher than the Panzer IV H, but not tougher than Panthers and Tigers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vagyr Admiral
    and will there be a german Shwevelverfer?
    Not sure what you meant by 'schwevel', though I assume you meant 'werfer' for launcher.

  12. #12
    Member Vagyr Admiral's Avatar
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    I MEANT TIGERII SRY FOR THE MISTAKE!

    its the most effective missile launcher in normandy

    the tiger could beat 3 shermans or 4 churchill tanks

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagyr Admiral
    I MEANT TIGERII SRY FOR THE MISTAKE!

    its the most effective missile launcher in normandy

    the tiger could beat 3 shermans or 4 churchill tanks
    I'm not putting the Koenigstiger (Tiger II) into my mod, as there's no model importer available at the moment. The armour values I gave are for the Tiger I E, which is the standard tiger used from 1942 onwards to the end of the war.

    Though if I did include it, the Koenigstiger would be...

    Frontal armour: 14
    Rear armour: 8
    Antitank rating: 16

  14. #14
    As time passes I'll mention other changes that will be going in. Most of these changes have either already been prototyped to some degree, or at least were already set in writing for over a month. They aren't just crazy things I thought up at the last moment.

    So, here's a sample of more features/changes/additions:

    Sherman T34 Calliope
    This tank will be a reinforcement call-in that is specific to the Armoured Rifle company. To compensate for the Armoured Rifles not getting their own artillery battery, and accompanying artillery observer squad, they have access to on-map rocket artillery via the Calliope. However the Sherman T34 was incapable of using its main gun while the rocket tubes were mounted, so it's only armed with the hull and coaxial machineguns. The initial delay before a barrage will be increased to account for how clumsy it was to use them (So the current practice of firing barrages during tank duels won't work anymore) but the purchase price of the Sherman T34 will drop considerably.

    SdKfz 251/1 Wurfrahmen 40 ("Stuka zu Fuss or Walking Stuka")
    This halftrack, like all other halftracks, is strictly for the Panzergrenadierkompanie. It's an upgrade that is unlocked at some point in the doctrine tree. It can still transport troops once upgraded, and has both front and rear MG mounts (This is historically accurate), and the cost to upgrade is cheaper. Barrages will now cost munitions to fire, bringing it more in line with how the Calliope works. The Panzergrenadierkompanie is similar to Armoured Rifles in that they lack an off-map artillery battery, so the Wurfrahmen40 28cm rockets are their main artillery option.

    SdKfz 251/2 Mortar carrier
    An open-topped halftrack with a GW34 Mortar team inside. Essentially a faster and better protected mortar, but can only fire the mortar when stationary. Still has the front and rear MG mounts. Again this is only an option for Panzergrenadiers, and is unlocked in the doctrine tree.

    M10 "Wolverine" Tank Destroyer
    This vehicle is a little less durable than it was before, but its main gun is as effective at punching through armour as it was historically. The 3 inch gun has a 45% chance of punching through a Tiger's front at short range, and a 90% chance against a Panzer IV H's front. The traverse on the turret has been slowed down a bit, but it's still faster than the historically accurate speed which was 2 minutes to do a full 360 degree turn (Yeah, it's turret was hand-cranked and turned slower than the Tiger's). To more closely emulate the tank destroyer doctrine in use by US forces, the M10 Wolverine gains an Ambush ability and a Disengage ability. Ambush allows the M10 to become camouflaged, and have a damage and penetration bonus on the first few shots, but it cannot move, and it can be revealed from greater distances (Scouts, like armoured cars, can see it without putting themselves in danger, but a tank won't until its too late). Disengage is essentially a retreat option for vehicles, allowing the M10 to quickly escape danger after springing an ambush. M10's are available to all three Allied companies in a limited amount, but Rangers will be able to field double the normal limit.

    Armoured Cars
    In general, both armoured cars got a boost. The reload times on the Greyhound's 37mm and the Puma's 50mm were atrocious and innaccurate, they both now fire at roughly the same rate as a medium tank. Additionally they can now reveal camouflage/ambush within a radius somewhat shorter than jeeps and motorcycles, making them actually useful for reconnaissance. Veterancy boosts emphasize speed and avoiding hits, rather than making them tougher (25% reduction in penetration is useless if the chance of deflecting a shot was minimal to begin with), so staying mobile will allow them to survive quite well. The Aufklaerungsschwadron and Ranger Company can field more armoured cars than other companies can.

    If you're wondering, it is both historically accurate and wise tactics to pair up M8 Greyhounds with M10 Wolverines. Use the armoured cars to recon ahead, spot enemy tanks, and lure them back to ambushing Wolverines.
    Last edited by Sturmhaubitze; 25th Jan 07 at 12:14 PM.

  15. #15
    Member Mirage Knight's Avatar
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    Would I be correct in assuming that the Sdkfz 251/16 Flammpanzerwagen will be a seperate vehicle with manned MG's?

    If so, may I suggest also that the SdKfz. 234 be split into two seperate vehicles - i.e., the SdKfz. 234/1 armed with the 2cm KwK 38 and the SdKfz. 234/2 armed with the 5cm KwK 39.

    For the Allies, the same ought to be done with the M3 Halftrack and the quad .50 cal variant.

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