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I was gonna make this a poll but i couldnt figure out how to get it to work but anyways
do you think it needs to be changed? In team games it is very powerful and in 1vs1 with blitz its very powerful but for everything else its rather risky and doesnt seem to be too viable.
and if it should be changed how should it be changed?
Axis infantry vet needs a little love, but the rest is balanced right now.
So basically Axis vet is only underpowered in a 1v1 when not using Blitz?
Meh.
I can't say I agree with you really. As they say on Tales of Heroes, the difference between good and great axis players is using veterancy, and while I don't always agree with the two gentlemen, in this case I think they're probably spot on.
Level 1 should be cheaper, but lvl2 &3 could remain the same
i heard an idea the other day that i really liked
first lvl vetrancy effects everything then it splits off into 2 groups one for armored and non armored where you can upgrade light vehicles and tanks for vet 2 as one research and then upgrade mg teams and inf for tier 2 as one upgrade then when you go to vet 3 it splits off into the four things we have now inf weapons teams light vehicles and heavy vehicles. and you have to upgrade all 4 separately
The manpower cost is reasonable, but the fuel cost is prohibitive in the early and midgame. Just getting your first upgrade costs 60 fuel with the building included. Upgrading all unit types to a mere level 1 veterancy is a whopping 150 fuel. Personally, I'd like to see the level 1 fuel cost substantially lowered, and perhaps the level 3 cost raised. Not an unreasonable tradeoff, considering allies get all this much sooner and for free with proper use of the retreat button.
Even buggo has said it's not as intended, especially in regard to volksgrenadiers and vet 2. I guess the question should rather be 'who does not think axis vet needs to be changed'.
oh god i'm hanging for 1.5, Vet fixes, no more invinsible smoke, so many goodies how can we wait. . . . . .. . . .. .aaahahhhhahahaha
Cross my fingers and hope our wishes come true.oh god i'm hanging for 1.5, Vet fixes, no more invinsible smoke, so many goodies how can we wait. . . . . .. . . .. .aaahahhhhahahaha
which wont happen soon
Axis vet is rubbish right now. You need to use it because otherwise Allies have an even bigger advantage, but it is still rubbish.
Allies with vet gain a quick and immediate advantage making them more accurage and do more damage, but the "defensive bonuses" axis get just don't equate.
I saw a Flak88 in a long team game against the CPU get triple-veterancy the hard way only to be one-shotted by a standard AT gun.
It just isn't worth it. Nothing you do makes your troops better at their job (triple vet KCH or grenadiers will be toasted just as quickly by a flame squad or croc as anyone else) and you don't feel any benefit in trying to "protect" your experienced troops.
Axis vet is really nice in 2v2's and up.
Getting an instant vet3 tiger really makes a difference.
Going toe to toe with a pershing is a breeze with lvl3 vet.
Yes, and since vet3 Tigers are okay, we should leave Axis veterancy as it is now.
... Wait, no. Axis vet sucks.
- sincerely, the Sign Painter
are you guys playing CoH? in multiplayer games, i always get the tank vet upgrades and sometimes even in 1v1 for tank battels. you get lvl 2 or lvl 3 tanks and it can be lights out for allies. the other axis upgrades i dont know about because i never use them (i dont know enough to offer an opinion there), but the tank vets are ftw.
Vet 3 Tigers... 2 of them... are I.N.S.A.N.E, please dont buff
Yes, and since vet3 Tigers are okay, we should leave Axis veterancy as it is now.
... Wait, no. Axis vet sucks.
Axis inf vets could need some love thou
And vet lv 1 be cheaper? its only like... 100mp and 30 fuel? with the 100mp and 30 fuel KKC... its not that bad... its not like you use any fuel the second you get tigers anyway
It would have been nice if relic had made it so you buy vet for single units instead of groups of units.
Say if vet for a inf unit was 20MP and 5 Fuel,now i know people will argue will me that it would be more expensive blah blah but it would allow axis to get vet much quicker and it would work in the same way allies does in that each unit has to get its own vet one at a time.
If you think of how it works at the moment for inf its 100 MP and 30 for lv1 vet so if we break that down you would nearly get lv1 vet for 6 inf squads so both teams benefit,axis get access to vet quicker and allies dont get a rush late game from a lv 3 vet axis side.
Everyones a winner
Veterancy is fine, except some small issues (Volks level 2, 88...). You dont have to get all the veterancy. In most of my games, I stick to Volks+Grennies(+Storms) and Tanks. So you only need two of the branches.
Rank 3 infantry and tanks are extremely powerful, two tigers with Vet are awesome. An infantry squad with vet will not lose a single man when stepping on a mine.
Allies don't get veterancy that fast that it is imbalanced. Actually I like it much more when every new units is already fully buffed. Ever used Allied War Machine and lost a level 3 tank only to get back a level 0 one?? That hurts...
The biggest indication that Axis veterancy system needs a look is the fact that everyone assumes you mean Axis Heavy Armor veterancy when you mention Axis Vet.
There are three other categories in there people. Try justifying paying 700MP/180FP for the support or (laugh) light armor veterancies as they are right now.
roflmao.
There may be some numbers that need a little (and I do mean little) tweaking, but the overall system is, imo, fine.
I agree it needs a look and a tweak or two, but no fundamental changes to the way it works.
I do have to agree that the early levels of veterancy for Axis are extreamly expensive. Some of the higher levels are very good though. As said above, level 3 infantry are amazing. Level 3 Stugs are just awesome.
Also it should be noted that Buggo has said that she is unsure where some of the people are getting the stats that people are using. She posted on GR.org that some of the numbers where flat out wrong. I think Axis veterency does a lot of small things rather than one huge boost.
I think the root of the problem is in the Komcraft Center(spelling). It would be nice if it cost was lowered a bit. But I am seeing Axis veterency in high ranked games and the difference is noticable.
Kampfkraft Center.
Support Vet cost should be lowered, and the MP cost of higher tier vet
i ind thats what keeps me from getting it most f the time.. the fuel isnt really that much of a problem
I get tank vet on a not irregular basis.
I am aware there are some players who, on occasion, get infantry vet.
Does anyone ever, *ever*, get the other two?
Why don't we merge them at least? Merge vehicles with tanks, and support with infantry.
Does anyone ever use light vehicle vet?
Al Ka Pwn posted the best idea.
i heard an idea the other day that i really liked
first lvl vetrancy effects everything then it splits off into 2 groups one for armored and non armored where you can upgrade light vehicles and tanks for vet 2 as one research and then upgrade mg teams and inf for tier 2 as one upgrade then when you go to vet 3 it splits off into the four things we have now inf weapons teams light vehicles and heavy vehicles. and you have to upgrade all 4 separately
Yea, Axis vet as a whole needs work. Just because Tank vet is ok, doesnt mean vehicle, support team, and infantry is ok. Infantry, especially level2 needs help. So does support team, especially for Paks. If they buffed the effects price would be ok, if not make other tiers cheaper.
Inf lvl2 needs a bit of a look, and the weapon teams sectoin needs some love. The first veterency lvl for the MG is great... but I don't really care if my nebel gets a health regen, or a defensive boost at lvl3.... Give me quicker reloads, more rockets, more powerful rockets, accuracy, longer range... something that is valuable in some sort of way to the Weapon teams. Same goes for motars, and AT guns.
I like the defensive bonuses for veterency in inf and tank sections... but it just doesn't apply the same way it does for those sections to the weapons teams.
For me, its fuel cost that really puts me off...
I find if I spend the fuel to upgrade my man, lets say now I have really strong volks or something, but now he has more fuel then me and is able buy better technology to simply crush my volks now. Thats what seems to happen.
EXCEPT if I play teir 2 strategy. I always have tons of extra fuel, and then the vet upgrades don't seem as steep. Plus then I've got plenty of infantry, who benefit from the upgrades well enough (Overall I don't think the fuel is really "worth it", but, I don't have anything else to spend it on so...)
So far the ideas I like are, making low-level upgrades (or the building itself) cheaper, to increase its use in 1v1, while upping higher level ones, to make sure they don't overpower in big team games. The begining with one vet upgrade then branching to four is a great idea too. And the per-unit upgrade, although I doubt relic will take it seriously, could be done right and very well. The allies are the ones who buy upgrades for their whole army at once (BARs, Sherman gun/smoke, etc), while the Germans are the ones who buy per-unit upgrades.
And of course, actually looking at what bonuses are useful and which aren't is a good idea as well.
Veterancy is totally worth it for tanks, but is far less useful for the other unit types. If the vehicle/support was adjusted to be more powerful itd be ok
Last edited by Woodchip1989; 11th Feb 07 at 11:15 AM.
support veterancy... I suppose it has it's uses, making your AT guns more survivable against up-gunned Shermans and making your MGs last a lot longer (at least from what I have noticed) while garrisoned.
Still, they're iffy at best.
i had it used against me once in a 1v1 ranked game lolDoes anyone ever use light vehicle vet?
i bellive it has something to do with sticky bombs missing, because i had 2 missing in that game alone... and ive had 1 other in the 6 months ive been playing this game
=P could just be massive unluck
Axis inf vet - lvl 1 is useless, lvl2 doesn't even work in some cases, lvl3 is hardly relevant at the time it kicks in.
Support weapons - lvl1 is pretty nice for mgs, lvl3 gives sniper two shots, that's about everything interesting here.
Light vehicles - just about everything here is useless.
Tanks - the only decent group, mostly due to the fact armor dominates late game.
Merging inf with support weapons and vehicles with armor coupled with major vehicle vet buffs and slight inf/support weapon tweaks and buffs and it's well worth the money.
if the split vet upgrades were like i described i think that the nuclear nades, the super bars, and the stickies would be fine do to the fact that the germans would scale along with the allies advancements
the things like bars, AT guns, Nuclear Nades, and stickies wouldnt be such a huge problem to axis players if axis had a way to scale with them so they wouldnt be so devastating
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