Dark Crusade 1.2 nobrainer fix list

[desocupado]

I think it´s intentional, only builders use infantry low... I know we won´t be seeing broadside harasses, but...

Edit: Agree with Maktaka, it should be there, just with a big "NOT FIXABLE THROUGH MOD" by the side.

[Carl]

About the Autocannon, it is firing properly in 1.2. It's missing an animation and due to the long reload and crappy accuracy it's difficult to notice it actually hitting anything (because it doesn't hit much, but that's not due to a bug, only the reload and accuracy). I upped its accuracy to 1, removed the accuracy on the move penalty and disabled damage on all the other weapons (still firing, just not doing any damage) and the Autocannon was hitting at maximum range and minimum range and everything in between.

Just a quick question, did you actually tell it to attack something when you did that test, or did you simply leave it to attack on it's own as if I remember right the Autocannon firing issue is that it only fires when you actually tell the Baneblade to attack something.

Or has that already been fixed and I’ve missed it in the fix list, (didn't they say they where going to fix all the Baneblade oddball stuff for DC anyway ).

[Question]

About the "attack range" of the IG GLs....im fairly sure it applies to a lot of other stuff too......the range on the baneblade main canon is 60 and i can guarantee you it does NOT fire at max range.

Easy way to do this is to put a squad near the max range of the BB, the BB will only fire the lascanons at the squad, even though they are range 50 and any unit that the BB can hit with its lascanons is also in range of the main canon and demolition canon...but they wont fire unless you specifically order them to.

Also the baneblade heavy bolters and lascanons have different DPS values for the left/right ones.

The same goes for the leman russ heavy bolter sponsons. Different values.

Landraider and Predator lascanon sponsons also have different DPS values.

Harlequin riveblade does 0 damage to daemon_high.

[Carl]

Also the attack range bug affect Baneblades, GM, Karskin, the LR, i'll add more as I notice them.

[Slow_Runner]

Guys, honestly, check the first post before posting. I can't stress this enough.

Differing Baneblade heavy bolter and lascannon damages are already in, so is Harlequin riverblade against monster_high and Leman Russ Heavy bolters as well as Land raider and Predator sponson damage discrepencies (that's pretty much everything you posted, Question). The thread is tricky enough to keep up with as it is without people double posting old things all the time.

The ranged_attack_range is not a weapon specific value, it's a value on a unit so it can't be a reason to why one weapon on a unit isn't firing if others are.

[Carl]

@Slow_Runner: I was just adding to the list of things effected by the ranged attack range bug and helping point out that A) theirs a furthar issue with the Lasscannon sponsons of Preds/LR's as they have diffrent range and (B) the fix for the DPS is more than just a few penetration values.

You catually have to play with the accurracy and base damage values first so they match before you can get the DPS the same, (assuming you don't want to change the reload rate).

Ohh, and I can confirm Questions point about the Baneblade Battlecannon and the attack range, hell, even the Lasscannons felt like they where firing sooner. If anything it might become a balance issue if you alter it just because of how far you can stand off and pound stuff.

[Maktaka]

The fix for differing DPS values IS just fixes to the penetration values. The weapons have all the other same stats (reload, range, accuracy, base damage), it's just the piercing values against certain armor types are different.

Also, the Lascannons on the Landraider are different from the Predator because they're different units. Within each unit's weapon set, the ranges on their sponson weaponry match.

[ImmortalChaos]

C/SM and eldar builders:
They have no morale breaking voice, so they just use the ones of the C/SMs guardians. I'm not sure if any have been recorded in which case it can't really be fixed, but its always annoying to find yourself looking through all your squads to see which one broke when it was only a builder.

[Maktaka]

Regarding the base damage on the Lascannons:

Base damage on left Baneblade lascannon: 237-289. Taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs. Base damage on right Baneblade lascannon: 237-289. Taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs. Reload times for both are 3 s, ranges are both 50, accuracy is both 80%.

But then the piercing values for right and left vs commander: 25/50, vs monster high 60.6/83.6, etc.

Regarding the range on the weapons:
Max range for Predator left lascannon, taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs: 35
Max range for Predator right lascannon, taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs: 35
Max range for Landraider left lascannon, taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs: 40
Max range for Landraider right lascannon, taken direct from the DC 1.2 LUAs: 40

[Octopus Rex]

@Carl: just delete your post if you want us to ignore it.

As for ranged_attack_range: sure the BB might wander over till it is within that attack range when you click on a target, but if you just leave it with an unassigned target on hold ground stance it will shoot at that range at anything it can hit (60 for main cannon). It's only when you target something that it will wander over.

[Danimoth02]

Actually no, the Baneblade won't attack things with it's main cannon that are within 40-60 units away from it if you just leave it on stand ground. It won't "wander away" either if you tell it to attack something at that range because it's already within range. You can even check this problem by using attack ground with the Baneblade and see that units are well within it's range and yet it doesn't shoot unless you tell it to. Like someone said before, it's lascannons (range 50) always start shooting way before the main battle cannon (range 60).

[Question]

Shas'ui photon greandes do not disrupt units that are hit. So basically they only do damage....and we know how much "damage" greandes actually do....

[Hiroshi_Tea]

it's a low damage gernade with massive area of effect
about on par with an SM frag
the lack of disruption is a bit sad
but since it does 85 damage to a radius of 10
i thenk it's more of a balance thing
as to why there's no disruption

[Question]

If it works like all other greandes do then it only does 85 damage if its one squad member.

[Maktaka]

Question, that's not how area of effect works. Area of effect does full damage to every single unit in the area of effect, whether there are 1 or 100.

The grenade damage sucks, but their aoe is huge. At a radius of 10, that's larger than an Earthshaker round.

[Shujaa]

About the Baneblade not firing its main cannon unless you target a unit - a workaround is to set it to aggressive stance (the red one), and then it does actively use its cannon without needing to be told. Not ideal, but it's also not likely to wander off after the enemy without you noticing it

[Carl]

Image of how the BB performs with the attack range increased to 60. Was on hold ground stance.



I then moved it to the bottom of the ramp and with an assasin doing spotting it fired on the base at the top demolishing the HQ with just the battlecannon.

The Map is Biffys peril and I didn't give a single attack order.

[weirwood]

IMPORTANT INFO, (I hope): GM Grenade luanchers get double damage from ONE modifer with weapons spec. However Karskin have TWO modifiers for their weapons spec, each giving 1.5 times the damage, so Karskin get and effective 2.25 times the GL damage.

Eh? Where did you find that? All I see is one modifier for min damage, and one for max damage, same as all other weapons that benefit from the specialisation research.

[Carl]

Let me check again, maybe i'm going blind...

Never mind, wrong again, an error on my part this time for sure, i just missed the min damage/max damage part. For some reason I must have thought i'd allready had the Karskin min damage modifer furthar up the modifiers list.

Sorry about that, as I noted earlier i'm going through the files fixing this stuff for personol use, and I just happened to spot this and looked at it a bit wrong and it threw me.

[Question]

Maktaka, im fairly sure greandes are special in that they do less damage with more squad members. Otherwise 3 greandes would wipe out an entire squad of GM instantly.

[Slow_Runner]

IG Grenade launchers? They do kill guardsmen (depending on upgrades) in three hits, but with a radius of 2.5 you're obviously not going to hit the entire squad, more like 2-3 models. "I'm fairly sure" doesn't really cut it here.

[Carl]

IG Grenade launchers?

Tau Photon grenades. Question was rmarking how strange it was for them to do no disruption, and it was then pointed out that they had a very large AOE and then question pointed out that that could easily result in 3 grenades destroy a single full squad of GM outright, (and people talk about necron IMBA LOL ).

[Slow_Runner]

Oh, well I labbed it once back in 1.11 and 3-4 Photon grenades do wipe out entire Guardsmen squads.

[Carl]

Ahh thanks for that, I weas gonna check the files but got tied up by my ongoing IG S campaign. That Baneblade is soooo good once you edit the attack range, you can park it up at near maximum range and pound the hell out of masses of enemy as they try to close with you before even the lascannons open up.






Should have danced to avoid being tied up .

[The_Guardman]

"Let it burn" does ZERO morale damage. DHO!

[Carl]

Another fairly oddball one, not sure if it qualifies due to the fact that it's got so many potentiol balance issues attatched, (depending on how good you think the Leman Russ is), the Leman Russ battlecannon has an AOE of 5 but has the AOE info set up as point rather than circle so it dosen't actually do an AOE damage style attack.

It's easy enough to fix, just go into the baneblade battlecannon entry, (or the entry of any other AOE weapon, I chose that because it so similar), and copy the good line of code from their over to the Leman Russ entry.


Bad Line:

GameData["area_effect"]["area_effect_information"]["area_type"] = Reference([[type_areaeffect\tp_area_effect_point.lua]])

Good Line:

GameData["area_effect"]["area_effect_information"]["area_type"] = Reference([[type_areaeffect\tp_area_effect_circle.lua]])

[philgreg]

Would balance issues of maps come into this? Im talking about the thread whereby certain points are quicker to cap for one player than the other - its an easy enough fix to move an SP slightly

[PheonixIgnite]

Another fairly oddball one, not sure if it qualifies due to the fact that it's got so many potentiol balance issues attatched, (depending on how good you think the Leman Russ is), the Leman Russ battlecannon has an AOE of 5 but has the AOE info set up as point rather than circle so it dosen't actually do an AOE damage style attack.

It's easy enough to fix, just go into the baneblade battlecannon entry, (or the entry of any other AOE weapon, I chose that because it so similar), and copy the good line of code from their over to the Leman Russ entry.

It is possible that this is intentional since the LR is more of an AV unit. Note that making this change without also decreasing the damage values would make the LR quite a bit more effective than the LLR and the FP. I think that this change is more of a balance issue.

[Carl]

It is possible that this is intentional since the LR is more of an AV unit. Note that making this change without also decreasing the damage values would make the LR quite a bit more effective than the LLR and the FP. I think that this change is more of a balance issue.

Let me clarify a bit more.

The Leman Russ should have an AoE effect on its main gun according to the file simply because it has an AoE value listed and Point area type weapons don't need one. On the other hand without the area type being set to Circle theirs no point to the AoE value.

In other words it's not a balance suggestion at all. Although it DOES have potential for making the Leman Russ IMBA. The reason it's a bug is because either the leman Russ was supposed to have an AoE in which case my suggested fix needs to be applied. Or it was not intended to have an AoE in which case the AoE value needs setting to 0.0 to ensure it can't be thought to be a bug.

The fixing of the bug however DOES have the possibility of becoming a balance issue due to the power up it gives.



My personal opinion is that back when WA was released the Leman Russ WAS supposed to have an AoE and that it's lack was a bug. Since then however, they've rebalanced the main gun around the bug, (hence the high rate of fire). Either way they need to decide what they're going to do and have the files clearly state this intention.

[Hiroshi_Tea]

the LR actually does pretty mediocre damage
splash shouldn't add to much extra
however, it would be nice if it had some disruption capability
bassilisks are ass because of their 3 pop
and hard cap
really puts a damper of the IG artillery abilities

[JohnnyBoy]

Problem

Give the IG Thermo Plasma Generator AND the Tactica Building Building_Med armour.

Reason

All the other races have Building_Med or Higher with all their buildings, with the exceptions of basic Plasma generators and LP structures (which are commonly Building_Low). C'mon man, fair is fair.

[Maktaka]

That's the VERY FIRST THING under the IG section of the list.

[JohnnyBoy]

HAHA, you are right. But YOU JUST COULDN'T RESIST........

Funny that the Guard is the main focus, so many no-brainers.....I wanna rip a strip off someone...

Sentinel accuracy/damage is still shakey even in groups....its Vehicle_High damage needs a good boost. 24 DPS is an outright travesty, before OR after the Killa Kan outrage. Make it 100 DPS, keep the sentinel relevant during our late game ubers. Let them be all-round AV.

[Wraith_Lord]

From the "[DC 1.2] IG Heroes" thread:

Jumper vehicles that have been immobilized by Curse of the Machine Spirit can still use their Jump ability to escape.

The tooltip says that it is supposed to immobilize vehicles now, but clearly this is not "immobilizing" jumper vehicles from flying away. Just so you know, the list of jumping vehicles includes:

Space Marine Land Speeder

Eldar Falcon Grav Tank
Eldar Vyper
Eldar Fire Prism

Necron Restored Monolith (uses Teleport; counts as a vehicle)

[Carl]

Crisis Suit Missile Pods are bugged, 2 of their damage values, (vehical low and Vehical Med), have values over 100% penetration. It also has very low Building low penetration but high Building Med/Building High damage. It looks like the Building Low and Building High values are switched round.

Another one is the Commanders Flamer. It has a range of 15, but only an AoE of 5. If i'm understanding how Flamer type AoE works the range and AoE should match. Otherwise the range is limited by the AoE.

Eithier drop the range to 5 or increase the AoE to 15.

[Slow_Runner]

Leman Russ cannon AoE is a balance issue, as is Sentinel damage against vehicle_high.

Added the Crisis Suit missile pod.

TC flamer needs AoE 15? Huh? You're gonna have to explain how you think flamers work because I'm not quite following you there.

The disabling jumps... it's an idea of course, but none of the other stun effects disable jumps either so changing it just for CotMS would be quite inconsistent.

EDIT: Found some campaign stuff in a bug report:

guard_research_command_squad_size does not apply a health bonus to any of the Dark Crusade Campaign command squad units, except for the commander unit himself (which is a hefty 500 health bonus) but I would like to know if it is suppose to apply to the campaign command squad units also.

For clarity sakes in explaining these next two bugs:
guard_infantry_kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp is the reference for the Honor Guard Kasrkin squad
guard_infantry_kasrkin_sergeantt_advance_sp is the reference for the Command Squad Kasrkin sergeant

guard_research_kasrkin_armor mistankly applies to the command squad kasrkin sergeant (kasrkin_sergeant_advance_sp, instead of kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp)

guard_research_kasrkin_speed does not apply to the honor guard sergeant (the kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp listing), instead just leaving him slower than the rest of his squad after the upgrade.

Wargear upgrades (which are listed under research):

guard_wargear_upgrade_08_greaves_research - this one is a doozy:

modifier4 list: guard_leaders_commissar_command_squad instead of guard_leaders_commissar_command_squad_advance_sp
modifier5 list: guard_leaders_priest_command_squad instead of guard_leaders_priest_command_squad_advance_sp
AND has a probability of applying: 1.250000 and list a multiplier bonus of 1.000000. These values need to be swapped.
modifier6 list: guard_leaders_psyker_command_squad instead of guard_leaders_psyker_command_squad_advance_sp
modifier7 was so close but has listed "mod_apply_to_entity" instead of "mod_apply_to_entity_type"

guard_wargear_upgrade_09_sash_research

modifier03 has "mod_apply_to_squad" instead of "mod_apply_to_squad_type"

[Carl]

TC flamer needs AoE 15? Huh? You're gonna have to explain how you think flamers work because I'm not quite following you there.

Allright, this is my understanding:

Range on Pie type AoE weapons simply determines the distance away the enemy must be before the weapon will start firing.

All Pie type weapons have their impact point, (for lack of a better term), centered on the barrel, so if it has an AoE of 5 the damage effect will extend 5 units from the end of the barrel.

The Arc values determine how many degrees to the left and right of the firing direction the AoE spreads.

Here's a pic that might help ypu understand my understanding:



Thus as i understand it, if the AoE is less that the range then it will only affect things within AoE distance of the weilder, not things within the mas range.

[SoulessCorpse]

With this giant list of issues you would think relic could atleast do a hot fix to take care of atleast some of these things. I mean all the solutions are practicly written out for them I dont think there is going to be a patch in the near future.

[Maktaka]

The pie slice aoe isn't like the normal circle aoe, it's not centered on the impact point. You can shoot at targets at the maximum range of the flamers without the target being in the aoe. The aoe is just a nice bonus for targets that get too close. You can test this out with SM tacbolter flamers. Aoe range of 10, weapon range of 25. The range difference is pretty noticeable when they're in use; you can see targets getting hit at the max range of 25.

Also, a unit can't be hit twice if it's already the weapon target and it's in the aoe. That doesn't mean it's not worth getting close to your target though. If you stick close, you can keep hitting the target even if you end up shooting at something else.

[weirwood]

guard_research_kasrkin_armor mistankly applies to the command squad kasrkin sergeant (kasrkin_sergeant_advance_sp, instead of kasrkin_sgt_advance_sp)

I don't know about the honor guard kasrkin sergeants, but I'm 100% certain kasrkin bodyguards don't get a hp upgrade by the armor research.

[Wraith_Lord]

Add to list:

• Techpriest Enginseer's Power Axe does 0 morale damage in CC.

• Assassin's Exitus Pistol (melee weapon) does 0 morale damage in CC.

• Kasrkin Sergeant's Power Sword: armor piercing values are set to 0 for VEHICLE_HIGH, BUILDING_HIGH, and DAEMON_HIGH armor, making them do no damage to those types.

• Kasrkin Sergeant's Power Sword does 0 morale damage in CC.

• Guardsmen Sergeant's Power Sword: armor piercing values are set to 0 for VEHICLE_HIGH, BUILDING_HIGH, and DAEMON_HIGH armor, making them do no damage to those types.

• Sanctioned Psycher's Strip Soul ability does 0 morale damage to the target, despite doing 300 morale damage to the caster!

• Hellhound's Let it Burn ability does 0 morale damage (mentioned before, but was never added).

• Command Squad General's Strafing Run ability has no minimum damage value.

• Singleplayer: General Lucas Alexander's Master-Crafted Power Claws and Power Fists wargear both also do 0 morale damage in CC.

Also, it is my direct observation that the Imperial Guard contain FAR MORE bugs than any other race in the game.

[Slow_Runner]

Added the morale damages for TP, Assassin, LIB, Strip Soul and Kasrkin sergeant sword, missing penetration values for Kasr and Guardmsen sergeants and the SP wargear things.

Strafing Run, are there armor types that don't take damage as a result of missing minimum damage value? If not, it's not really much of an issue. I'm gonna tinker with it at some point, but after a quick look, it doesn't seem to have AP values against buildings but still did damage to a HQ so I'm guessing the default armor piercing of 100 is kicking in there.

[philgreg]

This thread is getting noticed. I screenshotted Relic's Stefan having a look in, for those who don't believe me; so maybe these will be fixed next patch.

[Ferryman]

The demon pit shows it can bunker 5 squads, but it can only bunker obliterators.

[Imbrium]

I'm obsessive compulise, here some Tau bugs:

Research:
tau_devour under armour piercing has:
100 ap vs building_low
100 ap vs building_med
50 ap vs type_armor/tp_armor.lua - I'm sure this is suppose to be building_high

tau_photon_grenade has two listings of:

90 ap vs type_armor/tp_armor.lua
Photon grenades has no default armor piercing value, and making the only reason this ability does damage is becasue of it's minimum damge value, so this seems non-sensical, because this ability pretty much only does it minumum damage value whenever it is used. Balance concern here.

Weapons - Shooting

tau_burst_cannon_devilfish has no armour_piercing values, doing 1.4 DPS to all units.

tau_flamer_commander list itself as having 350 armour piercing value vs infantry_heavy_high. infantry_heavy_medium has a value of 45, so I think 35 is the intended value here.

tau_missile_pod_crisis_suit has armour piercing values of:

140 armour piercing v vehicle_low
120 armour piercing v vehicle_medium
55 armour piercing v vehicle_high, so I guess change low and medium to 100.

tau_rail_gun_hammer_head_gunship has armour piercing values of:

160 armour piercing v vehicle_low
300 armour piercing v vehicle_medium
95 armour piercingv vehicle_high, so I guess change low and medium to 100.

[Octopus Rex]

Guys, does an armour penetration of more than 100 still only do the damage of armour pen 100?

I always treated the armour penetration as some kind of percentage, so surely 160% would be more than 100%, and thus shouldn't be reduced as that would hideously effect the balance?

Obviously if 160 == 100 then bug fix away!!

[Imbrium]

Now that I'm done with finals I'm using my free time to mod DoW. I reported that block of IG bugs, and the Tau above. I'm going through all the races Abilities/addons/entity/researches/weapons looking for any flaws like what I have submitted for the Tau and IG.

Tonights I'm gonna go through the Space Marines, because at a glance, there are some pretty odd values placed around.



I'm listing armour_piercing values > 100 as a bug because I' see other people doing so, is this actually a problem?

I guess I could just test it myself, but is there something about it because I don't know.

I've got a mod with almost all the IG bug fixes done, I need to do some more intensive testing to ensure certains fixes are working. I'll release that I guess sometime.

It's hard to gauge certain bugfixes working (like speed bonus's for squads) Eventually I want to make a mod with all the bugs listed here and other places fixed.

Guys, does an armour penetration of more than 100 still only do the damage of armour pen 100?

I always treated the armour penetration as some kind of percentage, so surely 160% would be more than 100%, and thus shouldn't be reduced as that would hideously effect the balance?

Obviously if 160 == 100 then bug fix away!!

I would like to know. I'm only reporting ap values >100 becuase others are. Because I'm OCD, I'm changing them to 100 to be safe.

I plan on testing it later tonight. I'll do something simple like having frags do 100 damage with 900 AP. If it does increase over 100%, then that would certainly slaughter any squad :P

[The_Guardman]

I'm listing armour_piercing values > 100 as a bug because I' see other people doing so, is this actually a problem?

I think no. Btw, it is very strange that a well-known hardcap was not taken into account by the DC team when setting AP values. (HammerHead 300% AP vs. vehicle_medium? It's damn near istant-kill! )

Anyway a mod showing what happen when all of those things are implemented togheter in a single mod. You can save/ spare lot of work to the Patch Team by doing it, and give them a starting point to think how to balance better the game, IMHO. So good work, and let us know when you have finish Remember to post it into the Mod section of the forum.

The demon pit shows it can bunker 5 squads, but it can only bunker obliterators.

And rhino cannot transport terminators. This is not a bug/nobrainer, is a feature. What is wrong, however, is that you have only one Obliterator unit, making 5 spaces just cunfusing.
Fix:
Reduce the bunkering space to 1.

[Imbrium]

With my IG all bugfixed mod I've notice a pretty decent difference already. Nothing major or game altering, but enough to show a little IMO.

[philgreg]

I will be willing to playtest this mod when its done, have you got a thread in "mods in progress"