the tau firewarrior shas'ui does not fire at the same range as the upgraded fire warrior team
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the tau firewarrior shas'ui does not fire at the same range as the upgraded fire warrior team
#52
Thanks Jaimas, added.
Tau Shas'Ui gun range (and lthe fact that upgrades don't have an effect) added.
#53
Back with info on Chronometron. I scrapped my aura breaker idea (too complicated) and went with something simpler.
As it's currently implemented, the ability has a series of children. Presumably these children allow the ability to spread to whatever units the Necron Lord gets close to as he moves around. Unfortunately these children also persist even after the NL becomes the Nightbringer. Simply removing the child of the root ability breaks the chain, causing the ability to no longer remain once the Nightbringer is summoned. This also breaks the spread effect, so it's not without drawbacks. I see no way to get both the spreading (which requires children as near as I can tell) and stopping the aura when the NB is summoned (which requires no children).
Also got something that should work for the Tau Shield drone/ Shas'ui ability recharge (untested, but it sounds right in my head).
Double the recharge time for both of their abilities, but give each one an always on squad ability that halves the recharge ability for units of the same type within the squad. With just one leader in the squad, this leaves you with the squad operating exactly as before. With one of each, it's also the same because their abilities only apply to the same unit type. With two of one type, their recharge reduction will stack to provide a 50% recharge rate from normal on their abilities. I'll test this out later to confirm that it actually works.
#54
Wait, are the Energy Shield and Photon grenade not recharged on both leaders separately? I know for a fact that for CS there is a separate ability recharge for each ability in the squad, ie. if you have two psykers, you have two CotMSs recharging separately of one another.
Correct, having 2 Shield Drones does not affect the "shield" ability recharge time at all. It acts as if you only have one drone. Ditto for Photon Grenade.
What about IG and Kaserking Plasmaguns range not matching the Lasgun range?
@Slow_runner: can you reply me about the tooltips and the maps, please? They are very easy to fix.
EDIT: is the psyker istant-breaking his own attached squad/ CS when casting lightinings or mind blow really a feature???
All heil Gygax.
"Cry the Paladin for his mentor, cry the Succubus for her father."
Thanks again for all of the hours of fun you have give me.
#57
Sorry Guardman, forgot those. Yeah, if you know how to fix something, feel free to post here.
EDIT: Maktaka, there's an easy fix to the Photon grenade and Personal Shield problems: spbs file, squad_loadout_ext -> async_ability: true. Fixes the problem right up. Adding now.
Last edited by Slow_Runner; 5th Apr 07 at 2:13 PM.
#58
I noticed that the Techpriest Enginseer has a morale regeneration rate of 50 per second.
The Captain has a rate of 11.
-It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end (Douglas Adams)-
-Make something idiot proof and nature will create a better idiot.-
-Me fail English? That's unpossible!-
#59
I'm pretty sure the thing about Shas'ui Photon Grenades and Shield Drone, erm, shield ability things is intentional (where they don't stack).
Photon Grenades are 100-damage, radius 10 blasts in a can. Two of those in quick succession per squad would absolutely cream anything remotely dangerous pre-Tier 3.
The ranged damage shield is -50% for 20 seconds. Chain that and you've got 40 full seconds of portable heavy cover. More if one drone dies in the meantime and reinforces, conceivably.
I could see the independent recharge as extremely imbalanced if abilities are kept as is.
Also, @Guardsmen Plasma Gun ranges, I also think that that's a deliberate thing for balance - the Plasma Guns are shorter ranged to compensate for the much higher DPS. You could either play keep-away with the Lasguns at range 32 post-Resolution or jump on in back at range 26 with your 55 DPS Plasma Guns.
Same thing with the Shas'ui.
Wish I could think of some fix to contribute myself rather than playing Devil's Advocate at the moment, but I'll be back soon. Just wanted to throw those balance considerations out there as to why some situations would be as they are.
Handy Links for DoW Numbers (DPS, stats in general)
Dawn of War Player's Guide Wiki -- It's got it all!
Official Super-Cool Important Dark Crusade .LUAs - Thanks Buggo!
Slow_Runner's List of Everything Dark Crusade 1.11
Slow_Runner's DC DPS Charts, Organized by Race/Unit
Excedrin's WA Unit Statistics Calculator, DPS Charts
Sir Nick's List of Undocumented WA 1.5 Changes
Hu? So SM plasma should be less range too? Fine for me.that that's a deliberate thing for balance
Not wishing to open a balance issue, but when I by the plasmagun, I already taking a drawback: cost and time. Most of the PG problems arise from his shorten range, that is the same of a SM plasma. To me it is a leftover from the WA beta, where IG most probably had the same range of the SM bolters/plasma (they have it in TT and fluff). An overlook, more than a balance.
Maps:
- Tranquility end:
open the Tranquility End_icon.TGA file with any .bmp editor, rotate it 90°, save, close, check ingame the minimap.
- Fallen city:
open fallen city.TGA with the ME, enable RENDER WATER in the options, save, close, check.
Tooltips:
Check the entryline in the appropriated unit (it appear as $#####). Now, open
DXP2 (or WH40k or WXP)/locale/language.UCS and change the appropriated line with a text editor. It is very sensible to changes, so make backups and triple check in game.
- Eldars:
- Grav platform tooltips still say they can be attached to squads. This is not true.
Remove the false line
- The Vyper tooltip say that can be upgraded to be effective against vehicles. Untrue.
Remove the false line
- Imperial Guard:
- Commisar tooltip say it make the attached squad morale immune, while this is untrue.
Change in: "Sensibly augment the attached unit morale."
- Chaos:
- Bloodthirster still says the cost goes up every time you summon it. I think it's been like this since the original, yet it's never actually been true.
Remove the false line
- The demon pit doesnt list the demon prince research under the tool tip.
Add it.
- CSM Temple (ie. barrack) tooltip lists "allows the building of csm armory" This is untrue.
Remove the false line
#61
Hmm.. I guess the ability recharges might be intentional. Could be that they wanted players to have the option to upgrade the squad with both leaders but since the engine doesn't allow (I assume) for separately capped leader slots, had to go with 2 leader slots that could be filled with any possible combo.
Guardsman plasma gun range I can understand, but the Shas'Ui doesn't do that much more damage IMO to warrant such a dramatic difference in range (with upgrades, compare 50 to 30 when dps is 20.5 vs 22.4, only major differences in damage being against some building and vehicle types).
I think it is an overlook leftover from the WA beta.
During the beta, IIRC, the IG had the same range of the SMs (as in fluff & TT), and was buffed after to balance them. The plasma range was most probably forgotten due to the huge change of direction in the middle of the project, as the IG hero/weapons upgrade and the HWT seem to point out, and as evidence from the enourmous amount of silly things WA had brought to us.
It was a very rushed projct IMHO.
Yes, it is just speculation, but it is also very possible. Lot more than to have to pay for a weapon upgrade with a drawback.
Anyway, if it is for balance, i ask for a range REDUCTION of SM & CSM plasmagun.
EDIT: changes in the previous page, Slow.
well fw have only 310hp and it dont incresse over time. And he said about photon granades. How about plasma ones? Eldar can spam them in t1. Is he killing everything with them? Not to mention they knockback also.
#64
Ruonim, FW have 340 hp and they can get upgraded to 374 hp and terminator armor and they get 200 extra hp from the Ethreal. That's besides the point however and I don't want this to turn into a balance discussion. The way it is in 1.2 might be intentional or it might not be, we're not here to make final judgment on that. The fix is there if someone wants to use it in a mod or a patch.
i know ;] but he stated that this would make tham imba. And etheral is t4 and hp buff is koyun path.
#66
And again, the way it is in 1.2 might be intentional or it might not be, we're not here to make final judgment on that. The fix is there if someone wants to use it in a mod or a patch.
It's an inconsistent oddity, there's a fix. If someone wants to use that fix they're free to do so, if Relic balance team thinks it would be imbalanced, they won't use the fix in a patch.
#67
Just found one for the Orks. The More Dakka and Even More Dakka researches are supposed to boost building guns and slugga weaponry. For some bizarre reason, neither do anything for Nobz because they apply a bonus to the shoota_nob weapon, which isn't even used in the game, instead of the slugga_nob. Fix is simply changing the modifier to apply to the correct weapon.
#68
Shoota_nob is used by Nob Leaders. Nobs don't really need a ranged boost (not that Stormies or Sluggas are in desperate need of it either) but if someone wants to fix this for consistency, adding min and max modifiers for ork_slugga_nob should indeed do the trick.
etheral holographic skill copies unit hp but not armor calss for it. its supousse to copy armor class too. i think its engine problem.
#70
think that's the way it's meant to be
if it copied armor
then that would be massive IMBA
think of a holographic gnarloc
if it copied armor
it would completely be ridiculously hard to kill
and and would be a game breaking distraction
as it can tie up entire squads
read description in game ><. And it does 0 dmg.
#72
I'm not an idiot
it ties up a freaking squad
do you know the implications of that?
even if it does no damage
it will tie up a squad in combat
or disrupt pathing
until the image is gone
what can that ever do?
it can screw up a retreat completely
because you have some armored image
blocking your way whick result in part of your army dying
or it can keep your one of your expensive ranged squads
from ever firing a shot at all
#73
Ok - squiggoth is alive yet does not regenerate, but CAN be repaired....not sure how you feel about this.
Targeting Optics for Tau: does not effect the Shasui or Shasvre at all. This could be a balance issue, but I think they should at least effect the sight range of the leaders, if not the weapon range.
Shasui Pulse Carbine = basic range 30.
Fire Warrior Pulse Rifle = basic range 35.
I can't see how a difference of 5 is anything to do with balance as it's not really significant enough, and it just seems a bit odd really. Again, it's up to you with this one.
"Life is not full of successes, it is full of failures from which we learn" - Tony Benn
Octopus Blog (14.02.10) • DOW2 GridKeys
DOW1 Modding Tutorial List • DOW2 Tactical Primer
This thing borderline the ridiculous. Ig have to run in your face to use his plasma, and tau should be able to use to full extent theire sergeants? All or nothing. This is not a no-brainer, this is a balance issue IMHO.
#75
Dude, this isn't about "buff Tau, nerf IG", it's not about re-balance or making sure your favourite race gets some loving (Octo notes the nickname "The Guardman"). It's just about "hmm, that seems like a really odd/silly/obvious blunder/mistake on Relic's part, I guess they must have overlooked it, it's pretty easy to fix". It's not like we're making the next patch here, don't worry IG won't be getting nerfed because of this.
If I seem biased towards Tau it's only because I'm currently modding them and keep spotting little things, not because I play them at all.
#76
Guardman, the Firewarrior thing is slightly better damage at almost half the range on a max of 2 leaders per squad. Guardsmen plasma is like 4 times the damage on possibly 5 units in the squad and the difference in range is.
Guardsmen Sergeants actually have range 30 on their laspistols while the Guardsmen Lasgun goes to 32.4 with the Satellite Targeting research.
I agree that 22 (26.4 with the upgrade) range on Guardsmen Plasma Guns is silly as any standard weapon easily has at least 25 range and the lasguns also fire up to 27 (32 with upgrade).
EDIT: Necron builder scarabs have a 12 second flag plant animation which renders the scarab planting the flag immune to damage for those 12 seconds. All other races' cappers have a plant time of 3 seconds. Fix: Reduce the duration of scarab flag plant animation to 3 seconds.
Last edited by Slow_Runner; 6th Apr 07 at 3:25 PM.
when is this mod coming out? HotfixMode ...
Baneblade autocannon, (i know i'm obssessed!!) i think a good hot fix would be to turn it's dps down an it's accuracy up, so same overall level of dmg, but you get to see it actually hit stuff, (having a gun that you hardly see working is'nt very cool) add a firing animation an a better hit animation, i think the current 1 is 4 or 5 dot's flying off a target, if i seen it right.
Kaskin speed reseach, does not stack with priest one, any other commander attachment overides it so you get no speed bonus, seems a bit odd this one, a key concept behind IG is you use commanders to bring your infantry up to full power, yet this upgrade is rendered completey useless by any kind of commander attachment, it may aswell not be there unless your using the squad solo, which seems to go against the whole IG concept of commanders.
#79
There's not a mod working on this yet as far as I know.
Yeah, Autocannon fix needs just a firing animation. To make it a sensible weapons, tune down damage while upping the accuracy and possibly lowering reload time so you can actually see it hit something (and the Autocannon has a decent rate of fire in the TT too).
The KaserKin speed upgrade do not stack with the priest speed bonus.
This is most probably a bug, the patch team/ devs for sure know that IG always attach the priest to the KK. So, no point in having to pay for an upgrade that effectivly give you nothing.
This demostrate that the no-cumulative factor is in fact a missed feature IMHO.
Soluion:
allow the two bonus to be cumulative.
#81
The code for the Kasrkin speed upgrade and the Priest's bonus are both set to be non-exclusive, so I think what's happening is the speed bonus modifier cap is getting hit. They stack, but the speed bonus is already maxed out so nothing happens.
The old problem of percentil hardcaps.
So, the old solution: make the KK speed bonus an appropriated numerical upgrade instead.
#83
guardsmen armor is a percentile upgrade (i'm 99 percent sure of it)
so if you upgrade the body armor
before the death before dishonor and the like
you get less health than if you wait for tier 2
and get both morale upgrades and then the Body armor
#84
No worries on that Hiroshi. You've got the modifier setup right, but the effects are always recalculated from scratch when something changes. It doesn't matter what order you research the upgrades in, the results are always the same.
I think the problem is, the kasrkin do get both both speed buffs, but the priest doesn't, hence the squad is slowed down to priest speed. I don't know if it's possible for the kassie speed to affect attached leaders.The code for the Kasrkin speed upgrade and the Priest's bonus are both set to be non-exclusive, so I think what's happening is the speed bonus modifier cap is getting hit. They stack, but the speed bonus is already maxed out so nothing happens.
If it were possible, that'd be the preferred solution, since you could then also attach commies and psykers without losing the speed bonus.
'If it's a miracle, it's a Kantrael short-pattern nineteen megathule miracle.'
'And a bayonet, sir. With some guts behind it.'
Here's one that needs to be addressed: The Psyker breaking itself and the squads it's attached to.
I've yet to get a solid, game-mechanic answer to one question: why, for the love of the Emperor, does this mechanic even exist? The abilities aren't strong enough to warrant it, certainly, and no other unit in the game has this ridiculous mechanic, thus eliminating all precedence.
There is no reason - at all - to attach them to squads, and little incentive to keep them in a CS save as a detector or COTMS unit. And considering that those are 2 of its 6 roles (Lightning Arc, Strip Soul (which currently is borderline useless for its intended purpose), COTMS, Detection, Disruption, and attachment to buff GMs), that means the unit, as it stands, is woefully inefficient.
The fact that it does morale damage to itself is ridiculous. It shouldn't. Period.
This also augments the fact that outside of their powers and detection, Psykers do nothing for their attached squad as it is - a problem persistent in no other unit in the Imperial Guard.
Removing the idiotic morale blastback would be huge step in the right direction. Moreover, it's easily fixed with nothing more than an LUA edit.
i think youre right weirwood... even if the modifiers DID stack, the priest can only go so fast... he doesnt inheret the speed of the squad hes in.
Thats a fair point, but what about the the other commanders?, the whole point of commanders is there supposed to enhance, the performance of the squad, not reduce it, research should be reworked, even if a priest does'nt make the squad, speedy gonlazes, the other commanders should'nt slow it down, may aswell remove it alltogether in it's current state, it's just a icon cluttering up the taticaOriginally Posted by GRIM Ripper
I'm not 100% sure if it is fixed in 1.2 but the dreadnought HB did more Fotm then everything else in 1.11...I guess it's still there...
Sjeg
Nice find. Slow have not listed it despite being in the Oversight collection tread .
- SM Dreadnought Lascannon and Assault Cannon have no fire on the move penality. All others walkers have it.
(Someone have to check the penality for the Necron Tomb Spyder and the others necron vehicles: is it high as for NW, Immortals ad Pariha, or low as "normal" units?
The necron vehicles have no slow speed to explain a lessened FoM penality. In fact they tend to be faster, being unaffected by cover speed reduction).
Yeah but i'm guessing the reason dreads have no FOTM penatly is you loose half there cc dmg with one of these ranged upgrades, even with no FOTM penatly people dont really make use of them, simply because the power fists are much better
Tooltip Edits:
Tooltips say that Terminators are "effective against most units in close combat." They actually have lower CC damage than Scouts do.
Fix: Either buff the Terminators to SM CC levels (something which people have pushed for since Termies became an elite, BTW) or fix the tooltip.
Similar with Obliterators. Tooltips say they are effective against most things in CC, when they're actually effective against nothing in CC.
Fix: Same as SM. Either buff their melee to around CSM Levels (again, something people have clamored for for some time), or fix the tooltip.
This is also true of Honor Guard Variations.
#93
Jaimas, the Psyker morale damage is clearly an intended feature. You're more than welcome to argue that it doesn't make sense and make a thread about it, but I don't think removing it is quite that clear cut. Fix is obviously to remove the morale damage of 300 in the caster_damage part on strip soul and lightning arc.
Also I've been trying to tinker with the Kasrkin speed / priest bonus thing and I'm having difficulty finding a fix. It seems that the Priest is dragging the Kasrkin squad down to his speed, hitting the speed modifier cap is definitely not the problem.
#94
Kasrkin + Priests:
Priests and Kasrkin both have a base speed of 16.
Priests has an ability that applies to his squad that increases speed by 33%. This means that the Priest will always go at 21.28 (16 + 33%) because he is always in his own squad.
Kasrkin has an upgrade that increases their speed (both trooper and sergeant) by 33%. So once upgraded the Kasrkins's will travel at 21.28 also (16 + 33%).
When you attach the priest the Kasrkin's speed is increased by a further 33%, so 21.28 + 33% = 28.30.
However, the max speed of the squad is defined by it's slowest member, in this case that is the Priest who remains at a speed of 21.28.
So: the speed of a kasrkin squad is 21.28 with or without the priest. That is what you are paying for with the upgrade. Do you really think KKs running around at 28 really that sensible? A commisar or psyker will slow them back down to 16, but a priest allows them to continue at the higher speed.
Are you SURE that they are actually slowing down? Or are you expecting them to get faster but they are not?
Hope that makes sense.
Also: speed modifier cap? Eh?
Well, can't it affect attached unit too?
And yes, I wish to have them moving at 28.30 with Priest attached. I'm payng 100/50 for that damn upgade, and I will be very glad to see it having an emperor-damn-it effect: buffing the speed if they are alone make no sence, given the fact that the IG infantry as whole is thinked to work only fully upgraded and with attached leaders.
#96
It can't affect the attached unit I'm afraid. It has to specify which entities it increases the speed of (kasrkins, kk segreants and a single player kaskrkin type that isn't relevant here), it cannot alter an unspecificied attached unit. But...(see later)
IMO: this is not a bug/no-brainer fix.
Maybe Kasrkins are designed with the intention that they may be used alone occasionally, saving the leaders for the weaker G-men squads. It's an extra option. Then again, maybe not. I think that while Relic's intentions here are unclear, this is still their call and may not necessarily be a mistake as such. The speed research is designed to effect Kasrkins. It does that. It is not designed to effect all mini-commanders, so it does not effect them.given the fact that the IG infantry as whole is thinked to work only fully upgraded and with attached leaders.
My point is that you don't seem to be that bothered about the fact that Commies etc. actually slow them down, surely this is slightly more of an issue? What bothers you is that priests don't speed them up. This is because you mainly use priests by the sound of it, and this would suggest to me a bias towards your own playing style rather than plain bug finding. Meh. Whatever.
Slow_Runner: possible way round it - set the research to effect "squad_type" and set the squad as kasrkins obviously. I haven't tried it, but this may work.
Last edited by Octopus Rex; 8th Apr 07 at 12:03 PM.
They certainly were designed with that intention, before the hard-cap. Now that they're capped at one, the speed research is pretty redundant, since they'll have a priest attached 90% of the time, but that's a balance issue, not a no-brainer bug-fix.Maybe Kasrkins are designed with the intention that they may be used alone occasionally, saving the leaders for the weaker G-men squads.
#98
Yea I was tinkering with the idea of squad type modifier but couldn't get it to work on my first try. I also toyed with the idea of a Kasrkin ability that would activate when the research is done but then one would have to make it exclusive to keep it from stacking within the squad which would in turn screw up the priest modifier. =/
#99
Note regarding the Commissar/Priest Command Squad bonus stacking: the commisar offers NO BONUS to the Command Squad. The ability "let_your_aim_be_true_command_squad" has NO MODIFIERS. Weird but true.
Yeah, but it inherits the morale bonus from the normal your_aim_will_be_true. Which will get overridden by the priest.
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