Subscriptions

[ionfish]

We don't spend a lot of time trying to make money off the forums, mainly because it's a losing game - we run this place out of love, not avarice. Nonetheless we do have costs to cover, and in the past we've done donation drives where people have invariably been incredibly generous. Now we're going to try a new model: annual subscriptions. The annual subscription cost is €20 (that's about £15, or $27), and subscribers get the following perks:

• No adverts
• PM inbox that can take 500 messages, not the usual 70
• A little gold star to demonstrate your generosity

The last time our advertising deal fell through, Delphy had to pay for the forums out of his own pocket, so the primary destination of the money we get from subscriptions will be a fallback fund so we can keep the forums running (for a while, anyway) even if for some reason we stop getting advertisement revenue. It will also go towards some of the monthly payments if we have to add some more oomph to the servers that run the forums. If the take-up is far, far better than we anticipate then we might even be able to drop adverts altogether, but this is pretty unlikely.

Thanks to all of you for your generosity, both in the past and in the future. We think the forums are an incredibly important part of the Relic community, so securing their financial future is something I take very seriously. If you've got any questions, ask away, and I'll do my best to answer them.

Subscribe here

Payments go through PayPal, either from a PayPal account or a credit card.

[Alliance]

any chance of geting a mail address to send money to?

[ionfish]

Yeah, we can probably sort something out. Just don't send cash through the post!

I've turned the subscriptions off temporarily while we tweak a couple of things, all being well they should be back soon.

[Silver_Wolf#]

Hmm just seems how shall i say it...self interested...sure the server costs and such can bite but how exactly will having subscription users and vanilla users around spiting each other help it? It ain't a large amount granted but an individual my age can only hope to make 27$ per month in an honest way( i've seen guys who bet money on football teams to win, hell i know a person who won about 1000$ due to it) and thus this will kinda spoil the "savin' for Hellgate London" plan i got.

Ok the only thing i know that might be fair yet somewhat sneaky is having "premium" users not be different than normal users on the surface(same interface, same appearance on their posts) but still offer some perks like the inbox thing you said.

However i do stress the fact that premium and vanilla users should be treated equally , i've seen certain games loose allot of their users due to their system preferring premium users to the normal users.

Just my 2 cents really.

[ionfish]

We don't expect everyone to subscribe, and if you can't afford it then we understand; time was I wouldn't have been able to either.

Subscribers will in the main be treated just like other members (obviously there will be differences; I've outlined the current ones above, but the list is subject to change). The forums will remain free, don't worry about that, and if a subscriber breaks the rules we'll deal with them just like everyone else. In the end, though, as with everything else here, you basically just have to trust us. I think given our past record that's not too much to ask.

I think we've ironed out the teething problems, the system's back up now. If you try to subscribe and run into problems, PM me here or on IRC and we'll sort it out.

[Noble]

I doubt this will be a problem, but just out of curiosity, I won't have any trouble paying with my credit card as an American will I? Does Paypal take care of the conversion from USD?

[ionfish]

Yes, PayPal does the conversion automatically, just like it did for me from pounds sterling (and does every time I pay for something in USD or Euros).

[ÜberJumper]

OMG NO ADS! And a gold star! Go me!

[Noble]

Yeah, this makes me alot less paranoid about those racey adds that pop up from time to time while I'm posting at work.

Happy to support such an awesome community!

[SquidDNA]

silver wolf, I would like to highlight that annual means once a year. $27 a month is an absolutely ludicrous rate and we would absolutely not expect that from anyone at all.

What's the rough time it takes for the backend to sort itself out donation wise?

[PacPomarnacki]

No ads!
But more importantly... The little golden star of awsomeness...
Sign me up.

Now I just have to wait the 5-7 working days for Paypal to transfer my money

[ionfish]

Squid: do you mean, how long does it take for a payment to process? Not that long, a couple of minutes was my experience.

YMMV though I suppose, since we're relying on PayPal, and it probably varies depending on things like how long it takes them to get money out of your bank account, whether you're using a credit card or a PayPal account etc.

[SquidDNA]

Well that and the interwebs.

I mean: I have recieved confirmation of my payment, but I still have my old purple / red star and ads. I must come off as terribly impatient, I'm merely curious.

[ionfish]

Like I said, it worked very quickly for me. You're not listed as a subscriber yet which probably means the payment hasn't gone all the way through yet.

[Mnementh]

Squid has a bad credit rating!

There should be more benefits. Adblock and senior member status makes the first two points useless and the third is just a trinket. Special subscriber only forums is one thing that other sites have, but its not exactly usefull if there arent that many people subscribing.

[ionfish]

I'm open to suggestions for additional perks.

[PULSTAR]

I'll see what I can do after the first of the month (bills/rent ftl ). If it keeps this place going, I'm all for it.

As for additional perks, maybe giving subscribers some limited customization privileges? I.e. the ability to set a custom title, or looser sig guidelines, or something.

Oh, and have you considered that this might give the occasional whiner in FI who complains about "paying good money" to "have their way" on these forums additional ammunition, if they're a subscriber?

EDIT: One other thing, does this replace donations/donation drives (I presume) or supplement them?

[Merturk_NB]

Assuming we get enough subscribers, and we have a surplus budget at the end of the year, I say we have a "lottery" of sorts with relic/hw swag. A subscriber is selected randomly from the pool to receive free stuff. Set a limit, like you can't win twice in 3 years or something (so the same person doesn't get the prize every year by some freak statistical anomaly.)

I for one would like to see a locket of Alex Garden's hair up for grabs.

Lets see you adblock that Nemmy!

[Elukka]

I think subscribing is a good idea to cover at least some of the server costs. However, i think it shouldn't give anyone senior membership status or anything. I may come off as elitist or somesuch as i am a senior member, but i thought the same even when i wasn't.

[SquidDNA]

The text upon donation makes it quite clear that you are not paying for a service, you are donating to a good cause. If anyone whines about having a say because they donated, I suggest they look up the definition.

[Noble]

What about peon status in IRC? Maybe something a little more nifty looking than a gold star?

I don't think it's a big deal personally, it's a donation.

[dreddnott]

Come on, guys, this isn't the SomethingAwful forums. If you want a custom avatar that bad, go there instead. :P

[Mnementh]

I for one would like to see a locket of Alex Garden's hair up for grabs.

Lets see you adblock that Nemmy!

Ive already banned AlexG once, dont think I wont do it to bits of him

[PULSTAR]

Whoa, who said anything about senior membership or custom avatars? I suggested that donaters get some minor customization, somewhere between regular members and seniors. Personally, I feel that custom avatars should remain reserved for seniors, staff, contest winners, etc. due to the higher visibility they provide. Ion asked for suggestions, I made one.

(Of course, if those weren't directed at me, feel free to ignore the above.)

And Squid, that's true, but I'll bet that someone will try it sooner or later, donater or not

[ionfish]

People already try the "I paid for the game so you should do what I say" line. The "I donated so you should do what I say" line won't work any better than that one did.

[celtti]

To me this is a way of supporting my favourite community site. The high-quality service offered here far surpasses most official big-name forum complexes thanks to the rigid rule-set which guarantees clean playground while the professional touch by the majority of moderator corps ensures clean conduct. The occasional 'good-brother' attitude and outbursts of elitisms can be soundly ignored in favour of otherwise outstanding posting environment. And soon a decade will have passed since the first time I laid my eyes upon the first incarnation of this forum. Hopefully my humble donation helps in keeping this community-driven site's head above water.

[Octopus Rex]

Yeah, but you'll get tired of saying it all the same.

Customisation/reward.....hmmm. I'm not sure how good it is to have these kind of things. Don't get me wrong, I think that the mailbox thing is good because I remember times when mine was getting rather full when I was a regular member and was relieved at my big inbox as a Senior, it's also pretty harmless.

But I guess I just think that being able to pay for benefits tends to go against the general ethos of this place. Generally the caste system is based on whimsy/democratic voting and thus is kept under control: people love their shiny badges and custom stuff but there is no fixed way to get them and so they must simply be a good forum member and not think about it. When people have their lovely badges they are often suprised and grateful and understand more about why they've got them and thus tend not to abuse it and continue as a good forum member.

Being able to purchase customisation and goodies is a bit cheap. Ideally people would contribute out of thier fondness for this place, but we all know that people LOVE their dollars so I guess you have to tempt them with something. Hmm. A dilemma for sure.

Edit: yeah, forgot, removal of Ads is also a nice touch.

[Noble]

That's a very good point Octo, maybe having too many perks associated with this would steer it away from "donate because you love this community" to "buy trinket additions to your account". Even with the disclaimer on that page, I'm sure we'll start seeing people who complain that they spent their hard earned cash for a measly gold star.

I think the ad removal and inbox increase is pretty fair, even if you can circumvent those two needs through other means.

[ceejayoz]

For those like Squid who are waiting on stars... did you click the "Return to Merchant" on the completed payment screen? I believe that URL is how vBulletin knows to activate your membership, so clicking it is important.

We should probably point that out on the subscriptions page.

edit: Hmm, nevermind, people are saying there's a redirect if you wait. Hmm. Guess Squid's just glitched... I manually activated you, Squid.

[Moe]

For me the link read "click here if you are not being redirected within 10 seconds".

[SquidDNA]

THIS IS BULLSHIT MOE HAS BOTH STARS I WANT MY LAWYER

[reki]

No ads and new badges... today will be a good day.

[ionfish]

One other thing, does this replace donations/donation drives (I presume) or supplement them?

It replaces them. As you can see from Squid's yelling I've been removing the donation stars from subscribers and we'll gradually be phasing them out more generally (previous donors are encouraged to repeat their generosity and become subscribers).

[Tiresias]

Very happy to oblige

[Ruzdreg]

Hmm, This is £15 per month right?
I will be able to cancel this at any time wont I? if I ever need to save my money.

[ionfish]

Per year, not per month. It's an annual subscription; you pay in advance for one year.

[The Shadow]

20 euros for 12 months, not a bad price. I have to see about this, all up for supporting the community.

[Dooks Dizzo]

I am pretty broke at the moment but...I would like the opportunity to do a one time donation at random. I will be more than happy to keep the banners and my normal in box space.

I think offering perks to donators is a great idea, but I don't personally need any.

My recommendation is that (if possible) you guys allow both subscribers and donators with subscribers getting a bit of a perk and donators sticking with the good old gold star.

[Tiresias]

Perks would be fine but I didn't donate for that. I am rather proud I attained Snr Membership and would rather not see people pay to get it now so I'm glad that's ruled out.

I am worried thought hat people will donate and then expect less moderation, I can see it now "I have a right to post these threads as I paid for this forum" etc. While invalid it may be more common. I think though this makes more sense than previously, those ads were causing a lot of problems.

[Elixir]

Hmmmm, I've used the pm system 17 times in three years, I have no ads due to my java aps being up the chute and senior membership thanks to you guys and Reki, Gods know why though and I haven't figured out what to do with it yet (yes, I know it's not part of the subscription but people will mention it!). So a little golden star for ten quid?

I've seen worse deals, expect another subscription mid week.

[ceejayoz]

We'd rather not get too much into different price points for different levels of perks. The PMs and no-ads etc. are just little built-in thank yous for having donated to help keep the forum running etc.

If 20 euros is too much for someone to afford, I personally would rather they keep it and use adblock on the forums - they apparently need the money more than we do.

I am worried thought hat people will donate and then expect less moderation, I can see it now "I have a right to post these threads as I paid for this forum" etc. While invalid it may be more common. I think though this makes more sense than previously, those ads were causing a lot of problems.

Don't worry, we're practising the "no, you don't" posts already.

[DatonKallandor]

What if I like the ads but want to subscribe?

[SubZero]

Finally, no more UGO ads, the world is suddenly a nicer place...

[ceejayoz]

What if I like the ads but want to subscribe?

Don't tell me you're serious.

[General Nuke Em]

Good, I can get rid of that dirty commie star with this subscription thing.

[[Vertigo]]

I demand access to the "supar sekret moderator forum" in exchange for monies annualy!

<.<

>.>

yeah, I knew that wouldn't work...

[Dooks Dizzo]

What about access to the moderator forums for just one day?

[reki]

We'd have to delete all these first...

[ceejayoz]

Ahhahahaha.

[[Vertigo]]

It could be all good things like: Dooks is such a great guy helping that newb with his computer problems, I love Dooks threads, or Dooks had a baby.

Edit: I had idea! Give subscribers more sig space!