No HW2 at ECTS?!?!

[twitchtastic]

So I went down to ECTS today and was most dissapointed to see that HW2 wasnt there!

I fully expected to be able to see it in action and possibly even give it a whirl and was shocked to find that the relic booth (when I did manage to locate it) was infact smaller than my bedroom, which is tiny, and the sum total of their HW2 advertising consisted of a crap-tacular banner of the HW2 logo drawn in crayon on a napkin... and that was it!

Seriously it wasnt quite that bad but why on earth wasnt there a bit more? With the game only weeks away from release I expected to be amazed and awestruck but instead I left ECTS with nothing more than a profound sense of dissapointment and this wierd rash (not 100% sure where the rash came from, but avoid the Nokia N-Gage display just to be safe.)

[WarHampster911]

All they had was a banner? Be serious.

[Retroboy]

Just a clarification that Sierra is responsible for promotion of the game.

For comparative purposes, how big was the half-life 2 display?

-- Retro

[HIGHWINDER]

Like i said THE HOMEWORLD SERIES IS NOT POPULIAR DO NOT EXPECT THERE TO BE MUCH PUBLICITY ABOUT IT, which i am verry thankfull for.

PS: did u even bother to see if there gonna have the game, and if they are did u reserve it?

[twitchtastic]

Thats just it, there was no Homeworld 2 display!

There was a single solitary banner about a meter across with the Homeworld 2 title and logo, and that was it.

[Dyntheos]

HW2 wasn't in the Sierra Area at E3 either..

[Ressev]

What the heck is ECTS?

About HW2: if it does well, Sierra/Vivendi will want to hold onto it until they die of financial distress. If it does well, they may sell the franchise and someone else may pick it up. However, that might also hurt the chances of the game being bought unless the company had forsight.

Small displays
Little publicity
Cheesy box-art (sure, it has a head on it... but com'on, something prettier would be better)

Hey, what more do you want from an add campaign to sell a great game?

[Arconin]

when Sierra basically comes out and says that they are not going to put the kind of marketing power behind a game (in this case HW2) because it wont sell well.....it seems to me with just a little bit of reason...that it is inherently a self fulfilling prophecy.

Im sure that if Sierra put a fraction of the marketing power into hyping HW2 like they did other games like HL2 that it might actually sell a bit better.

It takes money to make money...but I guess after all these years of patheticness they dont have much money to make money with...

Sorry, I just get bitter when thinking about things like what was mentioned above...with Sierra not even putting in a lackluster marketing campaign...

[Freakshow]

heres the stupid thing about sierra, Half Life 2 will sell itself, it doesn't need marketing, all they have to do is tell SOMEONE the release date and itll be huge. but if they promoted Homeworld 2 like crazy then they'd have ANOTHER big series. why spend $$$ on marketing a game that doesn't need it, and not on a game that deserves the $$, needs the $$$ and is definately worth the $$$

[Retroboy]

Freakshow, it might seem a bit wierd but marketing and corporate product finance don't work that way.

Companies are willing invest in marketing for products that either a) guarantee a formidable profit through either huge sales or high profit per unit, or b) are essential to the credibility, name brand, or image of that company.

HalfLife 2 is both of these things for Sierra, and the money spent marketing it has pushed it over the edge from "eagerly awaited sequel by those in the know" to "eagerly awaited sequel by just about everyone with a computer". Every incremental dollar spent on marketing that game reaches a fatter and fatter audience. For example, Halflife 2 has been on the local and national news and in Playboy magazine. A lot of people who don't even buy pootergames will wander by the eBoutique or BestBuy in the mall and see the big cardboard box and say "Hey, I've HEARD of this!" - and buy it. That's a heyoooooge number of people and a ton of extra sales.

Homeworld 2 is a bit riskier and it selling many units is still in question. It's essentially targeted toward a niche group of players (and kudos to Relic for working hard to change that). Regardless of its quality, you might not get a return on your dollar if you spend a bundle marketing it but it doesn't cross over into "popular" popularity. Why risk spending $1M marketing a product to try to MAKE it popular, when you can spend that money turning something that WILL be popular into an even more phenomenal success?

Regardless of this, I still think Sierra could have thrown a little more effort at pushing Homeworld 2. The two-page ads in PCGamer and other print ads certainly help, and I'm glad to see them, but I wasn't happy to see a no preorder or "coming soon" boxes at my local electronics boutique.

-- Retro

[GuaRRand]

Hw2?

[GuaRRand]

Originally posted by Dyntheos
HW2 wasn't in the Sierra Area at E3 either..

Does sierra even KNOW or CARE that it has Homeworld under its wing?

If i had know this, i would have never bought Larry, Kings Quest, Space Quest, Colonel's bequest and every other Quest...

nope...just kiddin.
I didnt buy them in the first place

Oh..nope..kiddin again..

[FallenSoloSLS]

<---- Wonders what the impending sale of the Sierra (and a lot of other pieces of Vivendi) has to do with the marketing of HW2.

It seems that Retro is right on, and that this lack of marketing is compounded by the fact that Sierra is literally on the auction block, right along with Universal and other entertainment franchises.

[Freakshow]

why would vivendi consider selling sierra? they have several large franchises, one massively huge one, and many other good ones. it makes no sense, business people dont know how to run game businesses.

[Zilor]

Freak: Vivendi has been trying to sell off all there media crap for a while now, this includes Sierra and Blizzard.

[Steppe]

SIERRA SUCKS. relic i hope you get a publisher that respects what you are doing and your doing it well

[Kushan_Pilot]

This all sucks.

Monopoly. I never even heard of EA a few years ago, and when I did I avoided it because of its classically bad games, IMO. Suddenly the gaming industry is in the hands of 3 corporations. EA, Microsoft, and VUG. VUG was dumb enough to nab a number of the good companies, and therefore at least half or most of the titles worth more than cannon fodder. Now, the only people in a position to buy VUG materials are Microsoft and EA. EA, we know, will totally mutate whatever it gets, pulverise it, and God knows what they'll do when the good titles are used up. Then theres Microsoft, as "evil" as they are (and I've learned a lot from Pentium sources) they go the other direction, and for example are cranking out HALO PC giving Bungie instructions to keep working on updates, patches, and more after release...

[Demonic]

Halo was originally designed for pc anyway, but microsoft realised they needed it for the X-Box.

Also Atari (used to be Infogrames) or Activision still might be able to buy some of the lesser known developing studios' franchises (like homeworld and relic).

[Kushan_Pilot]

Depends in what sort of chunks they sell the stuff in :hmm: . Also, Sierra doesn't own Relic.

That's true about Halo, but at least Microsoft recognized support when they saw it.

[Demonic]

Does Sierra own the Homeworld rights/license?

[Ressev]

Atari (used to be Infogrames)

Ahhh, no. Atari was never Infogrames. They may have bought Inforgrames, but Atari itself has been around for decades.

As for Sierra owning HomeWorld: Yep! Lock, stock, and barrel. That is why Barking Dog produced HW:C and why HW2 was nearly killed because of some mysterious dispute between Relic and Sierra.

[JamesX]

Too bad the evil enemy emperor in HW2 isn't called Arreis.

[Marweas]

*yawn*

Well, I'll be concluding my participation in this forum with this post. Frankly, the effort put into keeping this miniscule community informed is not worth the aggravation or the time.

I just returned from Leipzig, Germany, where Homeworld 2 was demonstrated at a consumer Games Convention larger than ECTS. The game looked fantastic and people responded to it marvelously. Given that trade shows like ECTS are used to hype upcoming products, not products practically in stores, and given that VUG has about a gazillion games to market (most of which have greater earning potential than HW2) we made the decision to focus on other products at ECTS.

Enjoy the game.

I look forward to hearing more complaints about how Sierra ignores the community. I'm sure accusing instead of asking, and bitching instead of learning will accomplish your goals admirably.

Cheers, and goodbye. - Alex

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by Marweas
*yawn*

Well, I'll be concluding my participation in this forum with this post. Frankly, the effort put into keeping this miniscule community informed is not worth the aggravation or the time.

I just returned from Leipzig, Germany, where Homeworld 2 was demonstrated at a consumer Games Convention larger than ECTS. The game looked fantastic and people responded to it marvelously. Given that trade shows like ECTS are used to hype upcoming products, not products practically in stores, and given that VUG has about a gazillion games to market (most of which have greater earning potential than HW2) we made the decision to focus on other products at ECTS.

Enjoy the game.

I look forward to hearing more complaints about how Sierra ignores the community. I'm sure accusing instead of asking, and bitching instead of learning will accomplish your goals admirably.

Cheers, and goodbye. - Alex

thats exactly what the fuck is wrong with Sierra, Vivendi, and EA. u assholes ever think that maybe putting money into something instead of cutting corners is the best way to promote somethings growth. and what about long term, you ever once consider what you could have from many of your series' including Homeworld, but didn't want to spend the money on at the time. I bet if you had promoted Homeworld more in the first place you would have had a game bigger or as big as starcraft, but ur whole company is too fucking stupid to ever think about that. if it wasnt for the suffering game studios that need Sierra you would all deserve to be sold and fired. then no one would want your sorry ass for fucking promising ideas and studios.

ok sorry if i broke any rules or offended anyone *except for the people it meant to offend* but that fucking post marweas made pissed me off so damn much, and i had to vent it, so why not back at him.

make me the CEO for 2 years and you'll have a huge sucessful company, seriously, what do any of those corporate pigs know about making games and making them appeal to people.

[WarHampster911]

Sierra sucks ass. PERIOD.

[Langy]

Freakshow - They know how to actually earn money. That's their job. You, on the other hand, would probably kill the company within those two years, as you probably have absolutely no background in business, economics, or anything like that. Would you please be so kind as to stop biting the hand that feeds you and just enjoy whatever games they decide to make instead of bitching and moaning and doing absolutely nothing worthwhile?

[Gyokuran]

Eh, they know what they are doing most of the time. I'd venture to say that the people over in Sierra marketing know alot more about it then most of the people here. This isnt to say they dont make mistakes as they do. Sierra is like Sega, they have some really good games, but some how in the end for the user it seems like they screw it all up.

[twitchtastic]

Sheesh, if you kids cant play nice, someone is gonna end up crying.

Marweas - stop being such a primadonna. The majority of the games at ECTS are set to be coming out in September/October ie: practically on store shelves.
I dont think its unreasonable to expext to see HW2, a game that has gone gold but is still about month away from release (in eaurope at least) on display. I mean 'cmon how hard could it be to set up a computer in the back of a booth with a working copy of the game running?
I can totally understand wanting to hype a game such as HL2 (the ECTS booth was a bit OTT in my opinion), but surely not to the exclusion of a franchise like HW, which regardless of anything else is still going to be making Sierra assloads of money.

Theres an old saying: 'Make no promises, tell no lies' and I think the majority of this "miniscule community" as you put it are only as aggrevated as they are after having been let down on a number of occasions. I think that if, for whatever reason, Sierra cant/wont deliver on something then dont emphatically say that you will, its not very good PR now is it?

You're damn right we're gonna enjoy the game, we've been waiting for it long enough. Some of us just wanted to get our fix early.

[Kushan_Pilot]

I wonder what the heck his boss would say...would be an entertaining E-mail at the least. Gonna save that for safe-keeping. I suggest the fan-sites keep it archived. Arioch should like it.

As for any comments to Marweas, I imagine he expected us to swarm his E-mail with congratulations instead? Bet he'd have loved all* that.

* - Keyword.

[General Nuke Em]

He actually has a point. Half the people here say nothing but "omfg Sierra sux u just screwed HW over" to everything they do. I wouldn't be too happy about it either.

Sierra's reputation isn't as good as deserved. But how much of that is our fault and how much of it is Sierra's?

He's right on one point though. Our community is miniscule in comparison with many others.

[NovaBurn]

Nice going there people! I especially like the touch of flaming sierra more and more, AND the names at marwaes, just wonderful. You people ARE DOLTS! STFU QUIT SPAMMING I HATE SIERRA. Unless u got valid anwsers for why certain things like this occur, which are basically ZILCH, you got nothing.

Marwaes knows more about this business than 99.99999% of the forum goers and you people just have to chime and in shove it in is face. Nice going. :damnu:

-Marwaes, sad to see ya go, to bad things went down the shitter. Hope you drop by at least AFTER the game is out for a while and give a "I TOLD YA SO", to all them.

EDIT

I know that most of us hear this and that about sierra, they "suck" for this and suck for that. But maybe if you though that not everything sierra studios does revolves around Homeworld and HW2. Sure somethings, they could have done better on, but don't sweat the small shit ppl.

[ToastedLightly]

I agree with NovaBurn... but one thing. Sure we are miniscule, but saying it in a demeaning way is not very nice either. And don't think that we all flame sierra. I really don't mind Sierra. Marweas, just don't direct it at the community, direct it at individuals. That comment really has affected my opinion of Sierra toward the negative. Oh well, I hope all PR departments don't treat fans that way.

[AsterXiphos]

Well, I'm a bit disappointed . . . not too sure why this thread is still going. I was surprised when I first saw this forum that people from Relic and Sierra actually came and participated with the gamers themselves. I've never seen that before. I also remember reading some posts about how much more intelligent, etc that Homeworld gamers are . . . It appears now that they're just spoiled. Believe it or not, but the gaming community and world of software developers does not revolve around you. Isn't it a bit smarter to make friends with these people instead of complaining to them? Don't you get more with sweet than with bitter? Let's think about this, people. Yeah, so they're just a software company that wants money - and you're a gamer that wants his game now. Business is business. Don't expect favors when you're not willing to treat them with at least some common decency.

[disco stu]

Originally posted by Marweas
*yawn*

Well, I'll be concluding my participation in this forum with this post. Frankly, the effort put into keeping this miniscule community informed is not worth the aggravation or the time.

I just returned from Leipzig, Germany, where Homeworld 2 was demonstrated at a consumer Games Convention larger than ECTS. The game looked fantastic and people responded to it marvelously. Given that trade shows like ECTS are used to hype upcoming products, not products practically in stores, and given that VUG has about a gazillion games to market (most of which have greater earning potential than HW2) we made the decision to focus on other products at ECTS.

Enjoy the game.

I look forward to hearing more complaints about how Sierra ignores the community. I'm sure accusing instead of asking, and bitching instead of learning will accomplish your goals admirably.

Cheers, and goodbye. - Alex

It's hard for me to believe that someone can be this rude to their customers, let alone a marketing manager. If you wonder why people here have such a negative view, you've answered your own question by brushing them off in a very insulting manner. I can accept the fact that there are limits when it comes to screenshots, demos, whatever, but when you start telling customers (fuck this "community" shit, we are customers) that they're not good enough for your time, you've crossed the line.

[Qwaar-Jet]

I think everyone has the right to bitch at Marweas and Sierra.Corporate scum Is the only way to describe them.

Goodbye Marweas, you sure as hell won't be missed.

[Mac_Bug]

I'm sure if your customers start accusing and bitching you, you aren't doing something right.

[edit]

To further elaborate.

Yeah, we're relatively tiny, certain members here are elitist assholes when it comes to HW MP, and we'd all like to think we're special - we're not, fine, I accept that. From the amount of 'exclusives' this part of the crowd receives compared to all the screenshots and interviews given to the big shot gamer sites, I gather we as members of the Relic Forums isn't really worth Sierra's time or money - the fact that Marweas is here at all is something to be applauded.

With that said, I don't have to tell you you seriously dropped the ball with that line, though I doubt anything will come of it, what are we going to do, cancel our preorder of HW2?

Yeah, some of these guys seriously don't have a clue when it comes to things that's happening behind the scenes, and they have a tendency to say 'Sierra sucks', a lot - that's their opinion, they are certainly entitled to it and express it. It's really none of our business when you leave for Europe and what you did while you were there, but perhaps if you did spend five minutes to tell us that before it happened, we would not have people jumping to conclusions. Perhaps if this community was better involved in the game making process and better informed about the game they care about, then it will grow and not remain miniscule.

[Freakshow]

sorry for saying some stupid things, but still, Marweas's post is far too arrogant and stupid business wise, and i personally think he deserves to burn in hell, but expecting Sierra to realize that they can turn games into moneymakers if they would support them more is of course foolish. i mean, who would ever realize that Homeworld is the most perfect game ever created in many ways and although it isnt in the biggest genre it certainly is a genre capable of making money *like the C&C series, most money EA has made from a series as of a few months ago, more then Sims and MOH even*

[Earth-Command]

Knocking Sierra helps some of us to deal with our expectations not being met.

Guess it just goes to show you can't please all of the people all of the time. :wise:

(or none of the people, none of the time) [had to get that in first]



Thanks Marweas for taking the time out to be involved in our community.

:grumble:

[reki]

Im sure out of every 1000 posts of criticism, Marweas is allowed the odd Derek Smart episode to get it out of his system. Although I'm sure he realises what he posted was the wrong thing for a PR manager to do, he's human as well - no need to crucify him.

Im sure anyone who has worked in sales would agree & sympathise. Sometimes the customer is not only wrong, but they shit you to tears as well.

[AsterXiphos]

Amen

[silver falcon]

you know what, i feel ...... proud

think of it, we just pissed off a large corporation 6 figure suit dude, who claims to have come from worst crowds then us, and he can't do shit to us..... oh glorious days are apon us! if we can do this to alex in just a few threads imagine what all of us running a-muck in the sierra hq office complex can do

come on men torches for everyone!

ps. i told u guys from the start he was an asshole

<>silver falcon

[AngelChiken]

Marwaes knows more about this business than 99.99999% of the forum goers and you people just have to chime and in shove it in is face.

That is a fair point. Perhaps he does know more than 99.99999% of this community. I work in marketing. I dont believe that the best way to sell a good product is by keeping it constantly under wraps and giving out tiny pieces of info when it suits the company.
If you have something of high quality to sell you shout it from the rooftops. You make all information about available as soon as you have it.
Tell me this, what possible benefit do you gain from keeping everything super secretive? Firstly, people outside this "miniscule" community learn nothing about and, secondly, those inside the community know pretty much nothing also.

For a game that has been in development for as long as this one.... we, ie the general public, SHOULD have had a playable demo and wall to wall promotion for a game that is, allegedly, of such a high standard.

I dont think that those who criticise Sierra for their poor handling of thios game ahould be flamed.

just my 2 cents

[WolfmanA4]

Originally posted by silver falcon
you know what, i feel ...... proud

think of it, we just pissed off a large corporation 6 figure suit dude, who claims to have come from worst crowds then us

he wasnt lying. tribalwar.com makes this forum look like a wet shivering kitten when it comes to verocity and general bad-assed'ness.

[TheGeneral]

PR may be difficult, but insulting a group of customers in one broad sweep is a good way to disenfranchise yourself from them. I'm sure Marweas is seriously aggrivated at all of us, but, honestly, did he need to make a post about it? It's not like posting is some involuntary action you can't control...

TheGeneral

[Kushan_Pilot]

I imagine he's been around communities like this one for many years. I've been around them for only a year and a half. Already I know to ignore a substantial amount of opinions, comments, etc.

I know that lots of people around here (to those reading this I most likely don't mean you) float around with serious shortages of info and too many touches of elaboration. A lack of control or writing skill. In any case, I've learned about it, and prepare for it.

Obviously, the guys either an idiot or a wuss. In either case, he handled it wrong. Again, his name is one that absorbs the questions and problems, he just washed out.

I can't imagine him being unprepared for this though...

I wonder if his personal agenda can interfere with the next installment if it sells well. That'd show further immaturity.

[General Nuke Em]

How did he "insult" us? I don't find anything insulting about it. From what the majority of you have been saying about Sierra, I'm surprised he didn't "blow up" sooner.

Stop being elitist pricks that only look at the faults of others.

[Thorney]

Black Friday, Black Monday, security guards chasing fired employees around the parking lot, that poor PR lady fed up with the Red Baron community she proudly proclaiming "Sierra is out of the flight sim business forever" just as a repackage of Pro Pilot was heading out the door. Oops.

This all long before Vivendi. Probably before Mr. Marweas started working there. I doubt they mentioned during his interview a tattered reputation would be one of his perks.

I don't see any other Sierra employees coming in here. He deserves just a little credit for being your punching bag.

I appreciate how short sighted decisions are hurting HW2's mainstream chances which hurts everybody, us as guaranteed purchase fans, Sierra in lower sales, Relic in its ability to support its flagship product in the long term.

I guess these decisions are made at a level out of his and Relic's reach or responsbility. He has more in common with us than not don't you think.

Read this and ponder:

The Demonization of Sierra (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love David Grenewetski)

[ToastedLightly]

The tone of the whole passage:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*yawn*

Well, I'll be concluding my participation in this forum with this post. Frankly, the effort put into keeping this miniscule community informed is not worth the aggravation or the time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, we aren't worth the time? Is he just blowing off customers?A little insulting to me.........

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just returned from Leipzig, Germany, where Homeworld 2 was demonstrated at a consumer Games Convention larger than ECTS. The game looked fantastic and people responded to it marvelously. Given that trade shows like ECTS are used to hype upcoming products, not products practically in stores, and given that VUG has about a gazillion games to market (most of which have greater earning potential than HW2) we made the decision to focus on other products at ECTS.

Enjoy the game.

I look forward to hearing more complaints about how Sierra ignores the community. I'm sure accusing instead of asking, and bitching instead of learning will accomplish your goals admirably.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little generalization. Look at my posts. I have not bitched about Sierra. And I don't like being blamed for things that I don't do. That is an insult to me, maybe not you guys, but me.

Like Nuke 'Em said, it is a generalization. If your business were to fire everyone who does drugs, and you just happend to work with the people who do the drugs, would it be nice if you were fired too, just becuase, "Oh you are just part of the group, and we don't care about individuals."

That maybe confusing, but, eh. That is me.

[General Nuke Em]

Good article.

[disco stu]

Originally posted by General Nuke Em
How did he "insult" us? I don't find anything insulting about it. From what the majority of you have been saying about Sierra, I'm surprised he didn't "blow up" sooner.

Stop being elitist pricks that only look at the faults of others.

Frankly, your post is so bad that the effort it would take to answer it is not worth the aggravation or time

I look forward to hearing more complaints about how Relic community members are mean to Sierra.

Cheers and goodbye -Alex I mean stu