"Battle of the Bulge" - recruiting Betatesters -

[Martinlegend]

np dude

[nemo]

An historically accurate addition to the Botb night battles; Wouldn't be great if mortar teams could fire illuminating flares (e.g. red color) to reveal enemy position territory (removing FOW) for a short period of time? Just my tuppence worth..

[[]inveigle[]]

An historically accurate addition to the Botb night battles; Wouldn't be great if mortar teams could fire illuminating flares (e.g. red color) to reveal enemy position territory (removing FOW) for a short period of time? Just my tuppence worth..

What a grand idea. +1

[Halftrack]

for the night battles it would be nice... but CoH does not make any diffrence between day and night,
( afaik) "night" is just a graphical feature.

[nemo]

I see... It would be nice and extremelly immersive addition though. Pity..

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* more BOtB edited screens here http://cohgreendevils.blogspot.com/

[Platoon_Michael]

A nice upgrade would be in the Black and White Images used when waiting for a map to load.
Some of the resolutions are pretty ruff.

I was thinking an upgrade to colorizing those photos would be sweet.
Friend of mine did one for another game I mess around with.

[nemo]

Pretty cool indeed.

[XAMOT]

Jeez, I hope the commanding General, doesn't see that driver of the kubel in that non-regulation headgear!!

Field Marshal: "Put that man on report! Soldier what is that disgraceful hat your wearing that is not in the manual!!"

Driver: "Yes Sir, Herr Field Marshal, beg to report Sir! this hat Sir is a Russian Douche-bag Sir!!!

great pic by the way, that should definitely be a loading screen.

[Platoon_Michael]

Been having a great time these past few weeks playing BotB.
Thought I might share a few pics and possibly report one bug with the Wooded Bunker.
I've never used it till today so I don't know if it's a known bug or not.
My PC isn't the best in the world.I hope to upgrade it this year but I have thought that for the past few years.

I seen http://companyofheroes.filefront.com/ that there is a program that allows one to toggle on/off the Menu Bar to not be displayed and was wondering how well that works. Looks like it was meet with mixed reviews.
I'm also curious if it's possible to turn the Blue Icons and color bars off over top of my units?

[nemo]

Hello there matey,
Press [CTRL]+[SHIFT]+[~] to bring up the console.
then type
taskbar_hide = to hide taskbar
taskbar_show = to show again taskbar
message_hide = to hide messages
message_show = to show again messages

Cheers

[fragiator]

...and if i remember correctly:

game_hideui -> turns off icons, life-bars etc.


greetz

[Pajeu]

Hi, good people!
At first, congratulations for the best mod ever made!
All things are brilliant: effects, sound (mg sound include), textures etc. etc.
Just a little problem: when my axis halftrackStuka (axis_panzerwerfer42, I believe) was destroyied, it appearead a pink calioppe rockets barrels launchers on it...
Thanks,
P.

[nemo]

Hello there matey. It's fixed in the next release.
Halftrack's on fire!

[nemo]

Just a thought for the 6th SS Panzerarmy units; wouldn't it be more historically accurate if you introduce the Hitlerjugends(12th SS Panzer Division) instead of volksgrenadiers?

* "Hitlerjugends ("Hitler Youth") had no military experience. Veterans from the 1st SS Panzer Division LSSAH were assigned to the Hitlerjugend division and provided all the regimental, battalion and most of the company commanders. The SS could not provide all the officers required and 50 Army officers were assigned. They served in their army uniforms but were completely part of the division. Training for the division was unusual. Realizing that the division had to be made ready for combat as quickly as possible, they ignored many rules and regulations and instead focused on realistic combat scenarios and live-fire exercises. A result of this was that the morale of the 12th SS was exceptionally high, and the relationship between the officers, NCOs and men was an informal one, based on mutual trust and respect."

Pretty interesting, isn't it?

ps1. The Hitlerjugend members, had grown up under NSDAP propaganda, therefore they were fanatics. You could disable the retreat option for them.
ps2. Due to the "parental role" of the senior NCOs and officers (many of the recruits were so young that they were supplied with sweets instead of the standard tobacco and alcohol ration) they could come with the Hitlerjugends from the beginning.
ps3. The "Italian camo" was very popular among the 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend (see miniatures pic).

[Halftrack]

well, the 12th SS Panzerdivision is already a part of the 6th Panzerarmy.
this amy is no special Division... it just reflects the composition out of
Volksgrenadier and Waffen-SS Divisions.

Besides, the 12th was as any other Waffen-SS Division much better equipped than any Volksgrenadierdivision.
( Matter of fact, as it was a Panzerdivision, not Infantry ) and given a leading role in the attack just like
the LAH. So I dont see a need to introduce them as a weaker unit.

[matt57]

Hi, i have recently downloaded this mod and i find this mod is excellent! (excellent skins, new units, better gameplay, good AI, new wheater of course..) So first thank you for your job
However i would like to propose you some suggestions and remarks :
-there is a bug with the leFH18; servants remain immovable when they move this howitzer.
-voice for fallschirmjagers is missing.
-excellent idea for the dynamical sight range, but units should see a little farther in my opinion, at least when they are not moving.
-unit guns (infantry+vehicles+tanks) should then have a better range, i think fights between two soldiers in 1 or 2 meters one of the other one is not very realistic (and it happens very often).
-tanks should have more realistic turret traverse speed (example, for the tiger, the turret traverse speed was very low, etc..) and adding a sound when they move their turret would be awesome.
-the damage of some tanks could be more realistic too, the flak 36 destroy practically every vehicle or tank with 1 shot, why can't the tiger and the kingtiger do that? (sorry for always quoting german tanks, i play always with them ^^') and i find the damage of infantry guns is too low, on the other hand the sniper looks overpowered to me (he should maybe have a lower frequency of shouting).
-there is a sort of panther cupola on the ersatz m10.
-why not adding a captured sherman (limited to 1 unit) for the germans?
Thank you for your answer(s) in advance! And sorry for being maybe too much fastidious..

[Halftrack]

- the Ersatz M10 is just an improvised model, with technical limitations.I know that it lacks some features.
- turret traverse speeds ARE realistic in fact, as far as I could research them, they are implemented. The Tiger II turret speed wasnt that slow.
It was powered by the engine,and could make a full traverse in almost 15 seconds.
- damage of tanks are same, Jagpanther and Tiger II f.e. do have a lot of one-shot-kills... believe me I played it quite often.
the ballistic weapons are quite similar to Blitzkrieg Mod ( no wonder , cause Xalibur and me exchange quite often ) and he has
put a lot of effort into researching and implementing real life penetration values.
Just implementing only gun values isnt the way in my opinion.. you always have to consider the crews making mistakes
- ranges have been expanded... but considering the really small scale of CoH maps, I think they should not be much higher.
Overall its a thin line between realsim and CoH gameplay, and as the mod is more or less a one-man-product.
I really appreciate players feedback and try to optimize the Mod accordingly,but....
Changing weapon system is a long and time consuming process which requires lots of testing an weighing one against the other.
I simply lack the time ( and Beta-testers) of doing that again. But I always take comments into consideration and try to adjust accordingly.

the movement ( and towing ) of artillery guns is a problem. The crew has no animation, simply because relic did not add them.
Artillery is always stationary in CoH , and as I made it moveable, I had to live with that.

[Platoon_Michael]

I can do Beta Testing vs. the AI if that helps any?
I'm on a Cable modem and don't mind H2H,I'm just not always available (working 2 Jobs)
And well I basically am not that good a player.

[Celution]

- damage of tanks are same, Jagpanther and Tiger II f.e. do have a lot of one-shot-kills... believe me I played it quite often.
the ballistic weapons are quite similar to Blitzkrieg Mod ( no wonder , cause Xalibur and me exchange quite often ) and he has
put a lot of effort into researching and implementing real life penetration values.
Just implementing only gun values isnt the way in my opinion.. you always have to consider the crews making mistakes

Halftrack, even though I know you want to add as much realism as possible, but gameplay is also quite important, you know that. I personally find that a weapon system where some tanks can one-shot others on a normal basis, is kinda unbalancing. Sure a Jagdpanther or King Tiger is limited, and sure they could destroy Shermans with a single shot, but in a game it is very frustrating when a Jagdpanther - out of nowhere - instakills one of your tanks, without you being able to do anything about it. Shermans are already very fragile ingame, but having them instakilled no matter what, is rather stupid if you ask me. As it's mostly Xaliburs weapon system, Blitzkrieg has this too, and we had this too in Back to Basics but we tuned it down so that for example an 88mm needs 1.8-2.1 shots to take down a single sherman, as otherwise German heavy tanks were dominating the battlefield completely. Though they are way more expensive to get, but what they can do is much more worth the resources than getting a Sherman.
If you have that the 88 oneshots a Sherman, you need at least 3-4 Shermans to take down a single Tiger, and do know that a Tiger is never alone. Besides, that still doesn't give a full guarentee to kill that Tiger, as the Tiger needs 4 shots to destroy all four Shermans, while the Shermans need more that that to destroy the Tiger, especially frontally.
Besides, after each shot of the Tiger, you will loose 1 Sherman, dropping your firepower by 25% > 50% > 75%, while the Tiger will remain having it's full firepower at all times. Even though you might be able to only get a single Tiger on the field, the time it spends on the field is long enough in getting resources to gain a new one if it dies.

One shotting is really a bad thing in a game like Company of Heroes, where your income is map depended (if you have map control or not), as one shotting means you really can't do anything about it to save that tank when it is engaged into combat.

Of course I cannot judge completely without testing the actual balance you have now, but it is something to think of.

[Khannis]

So what's the downside of simply further reducing Sherman costs while keeping realism intact? There's only so many Shermans a Tiger can handle, that's why the Allies threw a shitload of them on each German armoured formation...

[Celution]

You don't seem to get the point of instakills being a problem for gameplay.

[matt57]

@ Celestial : You only see the "negative" points of instakilling.. , but the player has precisely to be more concentrated of the movement of his tanks, he can't more make stupid kamikaze attacks but he has to make some strategies like attacking on the flanks, ambushes, etc.. and ambushes are now extremely effective! (not like in the vanilla game -- ). And if an 88 destroy all your shermans, why not trying to capture it with infantry (or others)? It could reverse the situation; that's what happened when i played a game (pl+ai vs ai) as german, we were winning and the AI managed to capture my 88, they advanced with their shermans protected by the 88, and due to a lack of ressources i couldn't make anything and i lost. I didn't find it frustrating but very interesting. And german tanks can be practically (or even?) instakilled too, my kingtiger was lost after 2-3 shots! Everyone has its opinion!

[DMz]

Those suggestions are fine against AI, but against a person who isnt as stupid as AI and who protects his 88 with infantry and a hetzer with a spotting scope i think youd find caturing it a problem, Ive played botb many many times, and to be honest, with all the extra german units added i have no choice as allies but to go airborne and to turtle. I end up moving forward like im in flanders in 1916, one trench at a time. Because for me to bring tanks on is a total waste of time, as they are slaughtered within the first few minutes of any attack by overpowered german armour and german halftracks with pak40s, not to mention the dreaded static 88.

Dont get me wrong, i can win, even against expert AI, but i dont like having to donate 2 to 3 hours to each 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 on anhilate.

I would suspect even against a below average german player i would struggle, primarily because id be unable to use armour, unless it was surrounded by infantry. And my population plus income wouldent be able to cope.

[burtondrummerNY]

I have to disagree on the call to nix the tank realism. Sure it makes being an Ami player difficult, but it's certainly not impossible. And the kraut tanks are far from invincible - I lost a stug to a bazooka squad because I was out played and the Ami player used strategy. I also think that simply skipping tanks as americans is a poor choice because if you use them right, you can take out pretty much any of the axis tanks, and you hamper your tactics by skipping armor. You can't expect to win a battle just by using AT guns and infantry. American vehicles are cheaper than axis ones, so it comes down to harassing the axis player and taking out fuel - that jagdpanther is a sitting duck if you flank it with infantry on one side and a jumbo on the other.

[ds_vet9091]

I think the instant kill is rather realistic and should be kept. The Allies have much better arty than the Axis but I haven't seen any whining about that. I usually play the Axis 'cause the Allied armor sucks so bad, but against 2 AI's one will usually dump a bunch of artillery on you and then the superior Axis armor isn't so great.

[Khannis]

Though they are way more expensive to get, but what they can do is much more worth the resources than getting a Sherman.

That's my point. If German armour, as you seem to imply, gives more "bang for the buck" than Allied armour (assuming equally skilled players) just make American armour cost less "buck". That's what Allied industrial capacity achieved, a way to deliver quickly and more efficiently ever greater numbers of armour to the field, and that contributed to their victory. So why should it be different in CoH?

[DMz]

I give up trying to explain it...... the comment above about allied armour suckin should tell it all. Theres a reason the default game doesnt have one shot kills, its down to balance. And i can win using infantry at guns and armoured cars, its quite easy....

[burtondrummerNY]

Well, I'm sorry allied armor sucked in real life.

[Celution]

Don't have to start being mad at each other for having a different opinion.

But.

Yes, allied armor was less powerfull in real life, but in real life you also don't have unlimited ammo like CoH does, or having weird accuracy bonuses when some dude is standing next to you.

Anyway, the point is, that balance/gameplay > realism. Sure it's great to have a realistic touch in a mod like this, but trying to achieve this in a game where armored warfare is purely damage, accuracy and penetration modifiers, instead of shell velocity/penetrating power, armor thickness, armor angles and skills of the tank crew, indeed results in instakilling, and no matter what game you have, instakilling no matter where you 'hit', is gameplay ruining.

[Mr.Mind]

@Celéstial: No offense, but there also is players who rather take realism over balance and just becouse you say say one hit kill is gameplay ruining dosent make it true either. I do understand what your trying to say and i understand why. But then again it dosent matter what you, me or anyone thinks BotB damage system, its ultiamtely up to Halftrack. And knowing what this mod has already gone trough i trust his judgement to make this mod be as good as it can be.

[Halftrack]

I get you point Cel, but there are various reasons why I like and use the one-shot-kill system.

Its true, it kills the classic CoH gameplay of throwing tanks against each other. thats intended,and the OSKs help a lot.
The aim of BotB is to use more real-life tactis, and if your hardly earned tank may be blown up by the first enemy it encounters
it forces you to act differently than just rushing it out. Ambushes, reconaissance and flanking become much more important.
And true, the allied armor is weaker, their guns are inferior to the german ones. But they have more because they are cheaper.
A tiger can only handle one target at a time... so you need to attack it with more. As the rule was " you need 3-5 shermans to kill a tiger"
its quite similar here. And the Allies repelled the offensive with turtling, superior artillery and air superiority.

And thats the philosophy of this mod.. if in doubt, its always realism-> balance. War is not fair.
Thats what I prefer, and I think its what the vast majority of BotB players appreciate about this mod.
Otherwise they play another.

Its the same with many other features ... like the Atc. The script by AGameAnx is great, but not perfect...but still:
this kind of capturing method is by far more realistic than the vanilla method, so I use it in BotB.
Or territory borders, selection markers and all the stuff help gamplay, but ruin the atmosphere, so i took all that out.

This mod isnt made for the hardcore CoH gamer, its for the occasional player who likes a more authentic approach.
And besides, I DO make a lot of compromises according to gameplay.
( and to my limited coding skills of course...)

[Khannis]

Well said, and yes, the realism is what I appreciate about this mod

[Celution]

Well I understand and respect your point of view Halftrack, and so do I about the original design on BotB. I'm not saying I have been facing that my Shermans get destroyed because I fail to use them or that I'm rushing them alone, it's the fact that you will always loose at least a single tank without you actually being able to do something about it. The whole point of spending those resources is to have something that can actually be effective in the field, helping you to victory. Not meaning that you need at least 3 to be somewhat more safe from a certain destruction. I'd rather spend those resources into something different which I'm sure of won't get instakilled in the first engagement. Besides, it's not purely about facing Tigers and the heavy tanks.

I'm also not talking directly about Shermans and Tigers in paticular, but in using it as example in an explanation why instakills are bad for a game. Even if the Tiger would take the sherman down 99% then it's still better than havng it instakill them.

Realism is nice, and sure war isn't fair, but for the sake of a game and it's gameplay you must be a bit loose with the perfect realism. Let's face it, combat in CoH isn't how real combat was fought, even though it looks really awesome and realistic.


I have tried proven my point enough, there is no point in further discussing this with mostly AI bashers. There's really and honestly nothing wrong with bashing AI (hey, we all do that from time to time), but it is a very different style of playing, where realism can seem way more balanced as it isn't so much dependant on losing a single squad or tank. I'm seriously not downgrading people here, saying that AI bashing is less good or whatever, and I do know a lot of people here come to download mods to give their singleplayer more difference, and that's absolutely fine. Do also know that I'm not trying to change the mod or trying to force that he must change it, but I'm explaining my point of view against game balance and gameplay.

[Halftrack]

Well, we all are aware that CoH engine and realsim dont work together very well...there are many other games that serve this approach much better.
But they dont look that good.^^

And yes, I guess the mod is mostly appropriate for AI bashing, as a matter of fact. I am not a good player player myself, and making a game/mod
really balanced needs quite a base of MP betatesters. And time. Which I dont have so much of. So MP balance is left behind... and I end up
concentrating on the "look and feel".
But for sure, you got a point there. I ll be taking it into consideration... of course I want the players to use the tanks.

[Crasius]

Is the new Panzerwerfer 42 model available in the mod yet? Was wanting to check it out

[nemo]

Check this out: http://www.moddb.com/mods/battle-of-...-2509#imagebox

[Halftrack]

the new Panzerwerfer, along with a lot of other new unit models, is not yet available.
But it will be in the upcoming next version, eta. is mid of December.

[eliw00d]

You guys are welcome to mix with our Opel Maultier if it will speed things up.

Edit: Nevermind, I see on your Moddb that it is complete. Looks nice!

[Halftrack]

thats strange, I thougt I posted it here, too....

well, here it is.

Spoiler

[Jagdpanther]

I'm waiting for your next release. Nice gimmicks ...

[Kapp'n]

My goodness that's gorgeous..

[saukopf]

Seems like Dec will be an important month, BOTB,StrVo 1945,oh yeah.

[Platoon_Michael]

Will be fun to play the next update.

I was wondering if it would be OK to upload any BotB Maps I have made changes to for others to play?
Basically all I'm doing is adding Soldiers/Vehicles/Tanks to the large 6_P Maps to be used instantly.
It's been kinda fun to hop right into Battle.
If not I understand.

[bangalor44]

Hi guys, Just want to say great mod really expertly put together.Captures the look and feel of combat in the ardennes.I have an idea don't know if its possible.I was wondering if the doctrine tree could be made with random choices?So they come up a little different every game.I think it would it would add a bit more depth.Like I say don't know if it's possible just an idea.Other than that.Only thing to say Great job!!

[Mistico]

Whenever I try to install this mod I get some kind of error during the installation. I tried to download it from other sites,but it's always the same,only I get that error at different phases of the installation (sometimes at the beginning,sometimes at 30%...)
So what's wrong?

[nohant]

too much pio-spam on AI. on expert it's really hard to hold the pio. still in mid-late game
btw it's always the best mod.
it will be possible to implement the Large tech tree?

[Celution]

Halftrack indeed is planning to make Commander Trees up to date and possibly expanded in size.

[bangalor44]

thanks Cel.Good to hear Ithink it would add alot to an already great mod.The thing I'm curious about. I've never seen it done. is could the tech tree be made to change a little with each game?So you would'nt know for sure what your choices would be for any given doctrine.Each game would be a little different.Just a thought.

[nohant]

like european theather?
or maybe modified by Wheater condition, Map... ?

[Halftrack]

sorry to disappoint you guys, but there wont be any dramatic changes in the doctrines.
they wont be expanded to big teching trees or sth, because i am no big fan of that.

Random or map dependent stuff is much too complicated, especially for me.

My primary goal is now to insert new units ( or updated models ), eliminate old bugs, optimize AI and playability.
Secondary is to add some athmospheric stuff - for example, all vanilla maps will now have BotB-adequate,
winterish weather conditions, soldiers will now blend in with the landscape, and, if proven stable, the Surrender Mod
will be integrated. Some new skins, of course, too.
The doctrine trees will be a little bit polished, maybe I ll add some useful stuff, maybe expand the trees to 3x3.
It depends on my time. I plan to release a new version in mid-december, but dont want to rush out new trees
at all costs. They have to be useful AND historical. If I fail to develop that in time, I will need to finish that later.

Theres so much other stuff I would like to add, but fail to make, caused by lacking of free time or lacking scar skills.
The revival of the random weather, which affects unit behavour would be nice, a Line-of-Sight visibility system,
CoOp Maps or even SP Campaigns would be great. All this cant happen without a motivated scar coder.
( So, if you are one of that kind and reading this, you are more than welcome!! )