the tiger shood die when 1 shell hits the fule tanks. and the shermans shood of had this from the start but ill say it eney way it needs to die with one shot. that what hapend becows all the germans tanks had good AT guns.
|
|
|
the tiger shood die when 1 shell hits the fule tanks. and the shermans shood of had this from the start but ill say it eney way it needs to die with one shot. that what hapend becows all the germans tanks had good AT guns.
Or the game they were watching could have had both the Wehmacht and Panzer Elite playing. Or panther was short for Jagdpanther.You know I can't help but think that this article is mistaking the Tiger II for the Panther, since they do look somewhat similar.
To suggest that the Panzer Elite would have ANOTHER dedicated Tank Destroyer seems rather odd.
As well, the Panther was a heavy tank, not a tank destroyer (the jagdpanther being hte tank destroyer version).
I realised that; it's just that the Panther is pretty useless against anything other than Tanks in CoH.Originally Posted by say1998
You guys damned well know that to counter a King Tiger that's anywhere near what it should be the allies will be given AWM2 where Sherman tanks can fly and shit fireballs and fire depleted Uranium shells.
Given relic's abysmal track record, the King Tiger is most like going to be a Tiger I with some more hit points, more damage and a slightly better chance to penetrate other tanks. To compensate for this, the turret will take ten minutes to do a full 360 degree turn and the tank will be slower than the crippled old men fighting as Volksgrenadiers.
The King Tiger probably won't be close to what it should be. If it's like a Tiger with more hit points, more damage, better chance to penetrate, and better resistance to penetration that wouldn't be bad at all. The real question is how much better it will be, hopefully the difference will be more than just marginal. Here's hoping.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
#156
Wait... wasn't the King Tiger just the Tiger MK2, meaning a tiger with more hit points/ damage?
#157
I dunno, it could have the Panther's deflection bonuses against enemy shells as well since the armor is sloped
lets get this strate the king tiger,tiger II,tiger Mk II and the werst of all the jagetigerare all bad to the espesaly the jagetiger.
but this is so deadly the name explanes it. it is called the elefant.
(parden my spelling)
It was more of a merger between the Tiger I and Panther. The best parts of both are combined in one.Wait... wasn't the King Tiger just the Tiger MK2, meaning a tiger with more hit points/ damage?
That's a picture of a Jagdtiger, not an elefant. The elefant looks different and was created from the chassis of a Tiger I, while the Jagdtiger was created from that of the Tiger II (King Tiger). It's pretty silly to say that these tanks were bad, they had amazing armour and had some of the best AT guns of the war. The only problem was reliablity and more so lack of fuel.
The King Tiger was superior to the Tiger I in several ways. Whereas the Tiger I had a max armour of 100mm (on the front) this armour was slabbed. On the other hand the King Tiger had up to 150mm (some sources say 180mm) of frontal armour. This armour was also sloped at a 45 degree angle which is supposed to effectively double it's penetration resistance (I think).
The Tiger I was armed with a 88mm KwK 36 L/56 gun, which was able to penetrate 110mm of armour at 2000m. The King Tiger was armed with an 88mm KwK 43 L/71, which had a much higher muzzle velocity than that of the Tigers gun. I don't have numbers on it's ability to penetrate but it must've been higher.
The King Tiger should be slower but also have more health, much higher resistance to penetration and also a much higher ability to penetrate, as well as better damage. It's only drawback was the reliability (which would be hard to put into the game). The King Tiger should be more than just marginally more powerful than the Tiger I.
Also, for those who didn't know the number L/71 or whatever number is used refers to the length of the barrel in terms of how many times longer it is than the width of the barrel. A fun fact for anyone who cares.
I believe Big Red that the Tiger II is the King Tiger and I don't believe they were bad tanks other that they were underpowered with such a small engine if they would have had a way bigger engine who knows how much better it would have been plus they didn't make enough anyways since they were produced late towards the end of the war.lets get this strate the king tiger,tiger II,tiger Mk II and the werst of all the jagetigerare all bad to the espesaly the jagetiger.
The Jagdtiger I believe was pretty bad if you mean that they were breaking down alot because of the extreme weight on such a small engine. I believe if it would have had a way bigger engine say 1000hp or above it would have been much more reliable.
The King Tiger should be slower but also have more health, much higher resistance to penetration and also a much higher ability to penetrate, as well as better damage. It's only drawback was the reliability (which would be hard to put into the game). The King Tiger should be more than just marginally powerful than the Tiger I.
Give it a high manpower/fuel cost land max it out to 1 which its most likely going to be.
If I were to give it a Manpower/Fuel cost I'd probably give it like 1200 MP and 200 F or sumthin along those lines depends what's the current cost for say a Tiger I and Panther.
#162
That and few bridges would be able to support the weight, but that's hard to implement as well
Yeah, I can only imagine playing Vire River and having the bridge collapse under the weight of the Tiger II. While hilarious the first time, I don't think too many Axis players would be keen on the idea.That and few bridges would be able to support the weight, but that's hard to implement as well
Is it just me or is anyone else dancing with joy that the FJ have folliage in their helmets for added realism?
Liberalism: death of logic
any idea what the AA is going to be like? hope its not the same as CoH single player, have big ideas of it tearing dMwn infantry assaults with it
this is a beter image of the elefant
(sorry, the only beter image i cood fined was a model)
The Elefant or Ferdinant would be redundant. You guys already know powerful German tanks are not all that dominant in game and we don't need another tank destroyer.
Espically since the mighty sherman will be resistant to it.
Or simply because it is almost guaranteed that the next expansion after this one will most likely cover the Eastern Front with the Soviets fighting who else than none other another German Faction.
That unknown German Faction is the one that will get the remaining tank destroyers like the Nashorn, Elefant, Jagdtiger, etc.. as that is where they all fought entirely.
i really dont want a russian front. better moving to the pacific. but who knows nothings been said yet. another german faction would be a waste of time. the WM and PE are just fine for me!
Ostfront..... that hasnt been done before :P.
I don't think the Pacific is going to be covered just yet because with that they'd have to incorporate naval battles, air fights etc... Or if your just talking plainly Japanese vs Americans that would be done last I believe.
Right now its all about ground warfare and going to the Soviets to cover the last part of it would make sense.
I mean I can foresee that it will most likely be another game that's compatible with Vanilla CoH and OF. I mean it just makes alot of sense that they'd go this route plus who wouldn't want to play a 3 vs 3 game where on the Allies side you can have American,British,and Soviets against the Germans.
Why would there be any more *need* to incorporate naval and air battles than there is for the Western Front?
Battles between ships did not have a direct effect on individual ground battles. Sure if a convoy was turned away or sunk there'd be fewer supplies for later ground battles. And if more aircraft carriers arrived there could be bombing support. And more ships = more naval gunfire support avaialble. That stuff could be handled abstractly as off-map call ins, in the same way bombing runs and artillery support are handled now.
Im sure we will see naval and air battles as soon as COH 2 is on the table, but i dont see that for another 2 years the earliest, ill be happy enough with just Opposing Fronts.
this will be too good with air and naval battles!
The scale is completely wrong for naval battles. You'd need to pull back until troops are pixels, at which point it might as well be a different game altogether. Company of Heroes is called that for a reason; you control an army company, not a fleet.
Scorched Earth is what I'm most curious about. Certainly sounds like the craziest, most creatively free of the new doctrines. Based on what has been released, and what I can assume, it will probably function much like a spider web. Setting traps for the Allies to slow them up and using ambushes when they are immobilized.
At the start of a game, the SE Axis will most likely have to send it's specialized units out to choke points/pathways and fuel sectors to begin sabotaging. I imagine we will see anti-tank tread mines and remote charges that can be placed anywhere. Plus, as stated, we will see stuff like craters and real tank blockers.
Here are some Scorched Earth unit and ability ideas I had:
Fuel trucks: a unarmored, ungunned (just two men with mp40s), truck that is used to drive up to a fuel point, captured or not, and begin bleeding the fuel. When the tanker is full, the truck can be driven elsewhere to drop its cargo. This means that the fuel can be spread quickly over an area. The player would turn a valve on/off until the fuel runs out. When fuel is on the ground, it slowly begins to evaporate. But, before it is gone, the player can ignite it, to create a temporary inferno. Which, would be ideal for trapping any Allies unlucky enough to be on top of this ignited fuel.
The allies can easily destroy this unarmored truck. The truck's hull should be no stronger than a halftrack. However, if the truck is destroyed with enough fuel inside, the explosion will harm any soft targets in the area: it will create a wide area effect that will send burning fuel on anything within range. This means that infantry will need to keep a safe distance from a loaded truck, lest they wish to die with it. So, that means a Ranger unit will probably be able to destroy a fuel truck...once.
"Fuck, it's gunna blow! Get the fuck ba-" "BOOM" "WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH"
Mobile saboteur: this two man jeep unit will zip around the map planting booby traps, transport snipers/officers (3rd seat) as well as fulfill the typical jeep/bike functions.
Suicide boys: I'm having trouble finding a reference but, appearantly, the Germans often left young snipers behind to create chaos for the advancing Allies. They were called suicide boys by the Allies because they would camp a position until they were forced to surrender (due to lack of food, supplies, etc) or surrounded and killed.
I could see the SE doctrine getting a special sniper or a cost discount for the basic sniper. The SE doctrine is probably going to designed for low tech units so, it should field more snipers than the average army.
This would be a tree ability.
Radio Jamming: another potential tree (or special unit) ability. It would be used to temporarily block an Allied player's min-map & tactical map.
During a JAM, the Allied player would only have a visual of their command area (whatever the term is). They can not use the tactical or mini-map to click where they want. So, to quickly move to another area of the map the afflicted Allie player will have to slide their mouse in the direction they wish to move.
A stronger Jam could be to disrupt the Allied player's tree abilities.
Infiltration: (Based on Hitler's failed, yet daring, Operation Greif.) A final tree ability, that works in conjuction with 'radio jamming'. Should be deployed when the enemy has left his/her base relatively unguarded. Begins with the SE player choosing the national identy his/her commandos will be disguised as (British or American). Once this is chosen, a halftrack containing German commandos wearing British/American disguises will arrive from an off map road. The SE player's mission will be to send this halftrack into enemy territory to destroy their structures (idealy an HQ) and/or disrupt their resource collection (steal or hinder production).
Allied units will have to be instructed, manually, to attack these imposters, as the AI will not auto-attack. The only hint that imposters are nearby will be a subtle comment from Allied units ("Hey, buddy yer goin' the wrong way" "That's not the right direction" "I got a funny feeling..." "I smell a rat" etc). Failing to hear the warning (not close enough or simply distracted), an Allied player will just have to notice that the unit in question does not belong to his/her army, or any of the other participating Allied teams.
If an Allied player decides to click on this unit (or the units it contains), during a team game, it will register as belonging to his/her allie (partner). So, naturally, it will be an obvious clue if the unit's nationality does not jive with the player's allie.
Therefore, an SE player will need to know who he/she can fool during the infiltration process. Simply launching a loaded halftrack at the enemy base will be a difficult operation, especially late game. A smarter SE player will use infiltration units with a little more care. The tactic should require some daring and common sense.
However, if a game is only a 1v1, the imposter units will be seen as the Allied player's own units. Which would make the infiltration tactic even more challenging for an SE player. So, if balance proved this to be too uneven, compensations should be made to keep the ability useful, no matter the team arrangement.
Infiltration commandos need to be seen as either Tommies or Riflemen. They'd get the Allies firearms, but not their abilities (BARs, satchels etc). The commandos special ability will be to enter an enemy HQ, to begin planting a timed explosive devise that can completely destroy the building. This means that an Allied player will have to stop the infiltration in time. A quick retreat will be the first step to counter...
Plus, the commandos should be able to plant their timed bomb next to any Allied building.
Plus, commandos could also block (or steal) an Allied player's resources. This should happen the moment commandos enter an Allied HQ. The resource disruption should be in effect until the commando exit the building. Which should give incentive to the SE player to withhold the planting of their bomb: the longer they occupy the HQ, the longer the enemy cannot collect.
ATM, how to extract them from an HQ is still up in the air. Though good Bavarian cheese is a possibility)
_______
Anyway, those are just some rough ideas. I can explain them better if anyone is unsure what I mean. Food for thought, eh?
Last edited by EViLMinD; 1st Jun 07 at 1:32 AM.
Not exactly. The Elefant did not use the actual Tiger I Chassis. The Elefant is based a chassis designed to become the Tiger I, but lost out.The elefant looks different and was created from the chassis of a Tiger I
You're right say1988, my mistake.
its still a tiger I casey (parden my spelling)
It does look exactly like a Tiger I Chassis but the Elefant (Panzerjäger Tiger (P) Ferdinand or Sd.Kfz. 184) won't be a confrontation tank because the Elefant was only used as support for infantry after the Battle of Kursk because most of the Elefants already produced had technical problems and mines damaged the tracks/suspensions. And they got obliterated by the SU-152's, so they were used as support/artillery for infantry after that battle, but even though it was the most sucessful it could be but it was the most sucessful Tank Destroyer for Germany for awhile.
But they had a nice cannon ^^
8.8 cm PaK 43/2 L/71, or known as StuK 43/1 and it was quite superior than the Tiger I's armour (around 25mm - 100mm) in a whooping 200mm armour!
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Well. I think the Russians/soviets could have been worthy to be added along with the 2 new teams. Brittish and panzer elite.
It would be interesting to open the east front as well. Different setting, different stratagey.
have huge numbers of conscripts charge etc...
i think russians did well to deserve to be in COH
I'm wondering how the Hummel and Priest will compare. If the priest gets a bunch of firing modes and supercharge with munitions, then I think the hummel should have superior range and the shells should have greater blast radii.
The 150mm sFH18 of the Hummel was devastating, but there was never enough to form substantial batteries. Meanwhile American and Commonwealth batteries had large numbers of 105mm guns, and the overall effect against infantry was often greater than anything a Hummel battery could output. I wouldn't be surprised if the Hummel has a cap of 2 to represent this, so that the Americans and British can still outgun the Panzer Elite's artillery through numbers.
I doubt they'll have an individual unit cap. Since the Elite gets no defenses, you'll need to use most of your population for big tanks and strong infantry that can take damage while breaking through defense lines, so you'll have less population left to spend on artillery. Seems like the 'limit' would impose itself, because if you have too many Hummels, you won't have enough units
to attack. And from the sounds of it, the Panzer Elite is a keep-it-moving-and-it'll-roll-over-everything-but-stop-it-and-its-dead-in-its-tracks sort of army.
Oh and, ha....how about that King Tiger screenshot? wink wink nudge nudge Relic
@EvilMind
The scorched earth should be a Soviet doctrine.They used it extensively(and successfully) during the early stages of operation Barbarossa.
And what infantry units will that faction have?It's obvious Relic has run out of ideas with German Infantry that's why PE gets only two unitsOr simply because it is almost guaranteed that the next expansion after this one will most likely cover the Eastern Front with the Soviets fighting who else than none other another German Faction.
That unknown German Faction is the one that will get the remaining tank destroyers like the Nashorn, Elefant, Jagdtiger, etc.. as that is where they all fought entirely.
They'll just pull another Knight's Cross Holders type unit out of their ass again.
I'm not really looking forward to the Russians. The Sherman was a useless tank in reality but look at it in game. The Soviet T34 was actually a capable tank so imagine it in game. It's going to be ueber powerful. Why? It's an allied tank. Oh an expect the IS3 and some other rare BS.
#188
You know Caesar, if you're going to bitch about realism you could at least have the decency to not spout memes.
I think his arguments are perfectly fine, the game when released was really balanced in comparison to now, i mean they turned allied tanks into something they never were. I mean this game is becoming like shaving private ryan or call of booty at best.
Edit: Can't really call people Axis whiners, when it was Allied players who started it.
There's a difference between realism and reflecting reality. Company of Heroes takes history and goes "lol ya ok." I would love it if all the units in game would excel at what they were meant for in reality. Somethings work this way, most things don't.
Not this crap again. Why does everyone say 'Company of Heroes is unrealistic!' and then use the Sherman as an example? If anything, the performance of the M4A3 Sherman in CoH is one of the least unrealistic things in the game. Too many myths about WWII tanks out there, and the History Channel isn't helping either.
The 'Ronson' and 'Tommycooker' nicknames only apply to the early models deployed in North Africa. The models that were deployed in Normandy were no more prone to bursting into flame than German tanks. They were capable of killing Panzer IVs even without the 76mm gun, and with the 76mm gun they could knock out Panthers and Tigers without having to be at extremely close range. It was a decent and reliable medium tank. Period, full stop.
But back to realism in Company of Heroes...
... for a game that makes you build an entire military industrial complex on the battlefield, and in less than thirty minutes, while you're replacing weaponry and equipment magically in the field, and capturing zones on a map that somehow deliver ammunition and fuel into your reserves... I think it's as realistic as it's gonna get.
If it played like Ground Control 1/2, or the up-and-coming World in Conflict, then you'd have more ground to stand on when complaining about realism.
Actually it was a crap tank. Period. Full StopIt was a decent and reliable medium tank. Period, full stop..
No, in reality it wasn't a bad tank, but the tanks used for comparison are typiclly the average german/russian medium tanks. The T-34 and the Panther/PanzerIV. All three where distinctly better than the Sherman by quite a way in general.
The reality is the Shwerman was simply the worst of the avalibile medium tanks in the war performance wise. Havin eithier a worse gun or worse armour or both in general. Some of the British upgun varients where comparable to these. But the americans could be proud littile sods on occashion and wouldn't accept them by and large.
I don't know what i'm talking about, ignore me.
Thousands of years ago, Egyptians worshipped what would become our ordinary housecat. The cats have never forgotten this.
The Sherman's strengths were its numbers, reliability, ability to adapt, and ergonomics. I suppose it made a better car than battle tank.
Now, I wonder how the Panzer Grenadiers are going to work in game. Are we going to get something like the Volks or something more like our current crop of Grenadiers?
Not going to get sucked into another historical argument and derail this topic. We have enough derailed topics that cover this very subject (ie. Tank myths).
You know there are realism mods you can get for CoH if you want a more realistic feel to the game :-p. Anyways, I just checked Wiki and there are still quite a few vehicles and such that Relic haven't used yet, so I wouldn't doubt if we saw an Eastern front campaign. However I would imagine it would probably be the last chapter of the European theater as by then you would probably be running out of vehicles and stuff to use. (for the Germans at least)
Anyways, the Panzer Elite is going to be wicked fun and I am already running a mechanized Wehrmact strat in anticipation to be a mechanized army. *plays Panzerlied*
For the Emperor!
I am not the one to toot my own horn, but I do feel a little bragging is in order. Why?Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to direct your attention to the following post, which was made TWO MONTHS AGO (Apr 5th 2007) by yours truly. Specifically:I've kindly bolded the stuff that turned out to be true. So I had a few flukes (PzIV and Brummbar), but overall it turned out I was mostly right. OK, so the post has no other function than to say "told you so". So.... TOLD YOU SO!
OK, seriously now, I want your thoughts on what might fill the doctrine-unspecific medium armor role for Panzer Elites. All I see is the Hetzer. That's not bad, but for the fact that it's not a tank. Imagine relying on StuG-like turretless tanks for all your medium armor needs. Not a pretty thought. For me, the way Fallchirmjaegers, Panzergrenadiers and medium armor play out will probably be the key if I'll pick PE or stick with British and possibly Wehrmacht.
OK, I am probably assuming too much on the base of a few screenshots, but I want a turreted tank, dammit! I need those for flanking and whatnot!
Do you think there's any chance we'll see one for PE, bar the Koenigstiger?
P.S. Excuse my lack of german characters, I used oe and ae instead of umlauts since I am too tired to use the Character Map.
Swooping Hawk: Is there a secret underground cult of British faction haters?
Quercus: Of course there isn't. Nothing secret about it at all.
Not sure why you mentioned waiting for the PzKpfW IV H. The existing Panzer IV /is/ an H when it reaches rank 3 veterancy. Prior to that, it's a G model.
#198
And of course it's at Vet 3 when the Panzer IV finally looks cool
I'd like to see the Panzer III get snuck in there somewhere, as an early light-medium tank. Might be a good tank for early rushes - very fast but weak armor.
As for regular tanks, they will HAVE to get PzIVs and Panthers. You just can't have a 'Panzer Elite' divison without them.
It was a great tank at doing what it was designed to do, unfortunately it wasn't designed to face heavy armour.It was a decent and reliable medium tank. Period, full stop.
Tiger II's will do the job just fine.As for regular tanks, they will HAVE to get PzIVs and Panthers. You just can't have a 'Panzer Elite' divison without them.
Not it is not a Tiger I chassis. Porche designed it in competition to become the Tiger I chassis, but it was not selected. It is similar, but not the same.its still a tiger I casey (parden my spelling)
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
