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I noticed something at the end of the second mission, right before it dumped me back at the main menu. When the screen went black, it said "resources collected", then "mission successful". Does this mean that if you wipe out all threats on a mission, it auto harvests the rest of the rez on the map for you? I can recall many missions in HW1 (esp. the Gardens) where i let my resourcers run for a few hours to get all the rez in the map.
I think thats what it means, because after that ALL the astroids next to Bannana-2 disappeared.
Not sure the requirements for it though. I think it may happen on any map where you didn't have to do an emergency hyperspace.
#3
That would be a sweet change.
One of the things I liked in Cata was after you wiped out the enemy you could time compress to 8X as opposed to leaving the game running and taking a nap to get all the resources:Pike2:
The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
They don't alter their views to fit the facts, rather they alter the facts to fit their views.
...This can be unfortunate if you happen to be one of the facts they need to alter.
That's exactly what it means - no more sitting around eating dinner and waiting for all the resources to harvest. Yay!
#5
Yeah, I thought that was a nice touch.
I guess I was one of the few that liked to watch it collect all the resources. It was kinda relaxing. Of course they need a button to make it do it automatically but I would prefer a choice.
yay
sorry, had to spam a yay in this one
#8
I agree. Nice change. It is even better than time acceleration.
Same, I would've preferred an option for this... would've felt a little more rewarding for taking the extra effort or something, and I could've used the extra time to reorganize or reconstruct various elements of my fleet before jumping to the next mission zoneOriginally posted by Thac0
I guess I was one of the few that liked to watch it collect all the resources. It was kinda relaxing. Of course they need a button to make it do it automatically but I would prefer a choice.Now that I've just got the game handling it all for me, it just feels like I've lost some aspect of personal control or something.
I also noticed that when "Resources Collected" appears, all of the ships automatically docked and the Mothership hyperspaced out. Does this mean that we don't have manual control over when the mothership jumps out of a mission zone anymore, and we don't get to watch our massive fleet going in to dock or forming up in parade formation?
Last edited by Parias; 4th Sep 03 at 11:13 AM.
I thought it was a stroke of genius too.
I will feel very bothered and rushed (and i dont like being rushed) if the game automatically ends the level for me when its done, docks all my ships and collects the resources.
I like the time after the fight to assess my losses and in the cases of getting new ships I like to look them over and fly them around a bit.
I dont want to go from one furball to another fur ball feeling like im being pushed along against my will not every being able to catch my breath.
I want to be the one to decide when I leave and how fast to move along. (I understand if its part of the story, like in the first mission, but not in every mission!
I kinda liked the extra minutes i had to relax organize, and listen to the pretty music too
Yeah, it would be nice to have a bit of time to build something with those resources but definite kudos for the idea.
Well, let's not forget that this time around we're the prey, we're on the run with a big, bad meanie hot on our tails. This auto-progress only adds to the stress-factor in that we simply don't have the time to take in the scenery. It all fits nicely with the story as far as we've seen.
Maybe we'll get more time to ourselves later on?
So, what's the word then Relic.. is this just a storyline thing for the first few missions and optional down the road, or what?
I will not be too happy if the level ends on its own. I used to dock/repair ships and re-order strike groups.
After a hectic battle you have to regroup at the end of a level, it is hard to do at the start of a level as you are "jumpy" as to what is coming at ya.
I also like to watch and zoom on a few ships and generally a4se about. ;-)
The guy above who used "eat dinner" as an example - I used to do this all the time, eat/smoke/chat whatever as my collectors wizzed about. A real fleet general would have time to chill when on top of things.
"Bump"
I'd really like to hear from Relic on this. I'd prefer an option to harvest resources myself, unless the story required an emergency exit. That's the time I use to organize and re-build my forces.
#18
Nope, you get quiet time at the start of most levels though.
Ouch, that's very disappointing.
Damn, that sucks.
I always spent the last 20 minutes or so after completing a mission rebuilding my forces in preperation for the next. I mean, what happens if you complete a mission and all your forces have been annihilated except for one squadron of interceptors? You just auto-warp to the next mission with your thumb up your butt praying that you don't get jumped on immediately?
Many missions in HW1 would have been impossible without a sizable starting fleet.
-Keiichi
If I understand what you are saying then I don't like that one little bit. So you're saying that when a level ends, we have no control over when we leave? What's the fun in that?Originally posted by mecha
Nope, you get quiet time at the start of most levels though.
Just boom, level over and we jump?
Well, it could work out allright. As long as it doesn't feel like you're being forced along, which in addition to being annoying, would cut down on the length of the game. (For anal micromanagers such as myself, anyway =] )
Thanks for the reply though, Mecha. I love the game so far, can't wait to play the full campaign!
Judging by the second demo mission, that seems to be exactly it, yes.Originally posted by Thac0
If I understand what you are saying then I don't like that one little bit. So you're saying that when a level ends, we have no control over when we leave? What's the fun in that?
Just boom, level over and we jump?
The greatest thing that annoys me about this is that I'll be left constantly trying to guess throughout the campaign what event triggers the end-of-mission sequence, and trying to avoid it until I'm actually ready to advance. Was this kind of change really necessary? The old system worked great, and an option similar to "Quick Docking" that does exactly what's coded into Homeworld 2 now would've been perfect. An option.
Well I never played HW1 online. I didn't hang around forums and I really wasn't that good at the game. I beat it, but barely. The stuff I loved was the music, the atmosphere, cruising around after a level collecting resources and trying different formations and then to put everyone in parade formation and watch them dock one by one.
I guess that sounds like torture to some but that's what made the game great for me. I still have HW1 installed and I have save games that I load up just to do what I mentioned above. Please tell me there is still time for you guys to reconsider this...
#25
You'll actually find that during the SP game, it's better to wait to the next mission to spend all the extra RU. Most new tech comes nearer to the start of a mission than near the end. So if you spend too much money at the end of a mission, you might not have enough for the good stuff next mission.
There is lots of time in the start of most of the SP levels to get organized for the next levels (as mecha mentioned).
Further to whats been said, the reasons for the choiice are exactly as a couple of people guessed. It's all about tension this time around - and you don't have time to simply sit back and wait with Hiigara at threat.
You're not out searching for your Homeworld, you're defending it against a brutal and cunning opponent. Every minute counts for an Hiigaran life - and if you think Karan S'Jet will hang around to organise her fleets and get the control groups right while Hiigaran blood is being spilled, you need to recheck your history books.
And, as Mecha said - you're just accustomed to doing your organisation at the end of a mission (which is weird, when you think about it. What other RTS asks "are you done yet?" when you complete a mission?). Where appropriate, you'll have time to get organised as you desire - while being able to start preliminary resourcing, scouting and planning how to deal with the next mission at the same time.
Once again - this is Homeworld2. Much is familiar, but much has changed - and once you get used to the changes you'll wonder why you ever preferred the old way.
But still Uber.That sucks.Hopefully a patch will change this.Can any of the devs answer if there will be changes to the interface in the patch?
not really happy one bit am I! But I will trust the devs word that there will be time to take care of things. So far I find it all very confusing and find myself yearing for the old ways...but I'll adapt...it is quite a lovely game
#29
no
While I too used the extra time in HW1 to build up my fleet, and read the classics, and learn Latin... I think it will be fine. So quit your bellyachin
Well no quiet reflection and admiration of our beautiful and heavily armed vessels.We'll live with it.
#32
JamesX - that's what the "pause" feature is for, eh?
-- Retro
mecha, don't make ppl mod this, you won't like it if ppl mod thisOriginally posted by mecha
no
Wow this has to be the only thread i've seen so far to have 4 employees of sierra and relic post their thoughts...amazing. I frankly feel that we should cut Relic some slack eh. They work their guts out to produce the game so just accept it for what it is and let em chill until they're ready to start work on a patch again ya..:cranky:
Hellspawn,
Hate to break it to you but you were hunted in the first game too. The only thing saving you from a massive fleet was the fact you take out the fleet sent to destroy Kharak.
It is easier to track down prey you know is around, much harder to track down prey you thought dead.
you were not actually hunted in the first, it's not like there were people after your homeplanet trying to destroy it. That's because they already had... destroyed it. It was only a matter of time before they got you too, so why bother hunting you.
I, for one, am VERY happy about this change. I thought it was annoyingly stupid that you could just sit and wait for hours and that there was no pressure at all at the end of HW missions. At least Cata missions had some tension in them (situations where you had to run or move asap).
I definitely think this is a good sign for the game overall. HW1 was too leisurely for the immensity of what transpired.
LOL - I remember a lot of moaning about how you had to wait ages while the harvesters were working in HW1, also I found the temptation to use the time accel , in Cata, during missions to move things along to strong.
I think we will be able to adapt to the auto harvest/dock and jumps .... I think HW1 was one of the few persistant unit games that allowed/forced players to hang around after the mission.
HW 2 will simply not let you catch your breath, you are in for the ride...suck it up and dish it out guys
I love relic - answers aren't in the shape of the developers, they are as if spoken from Karan S'Jet herself.Originally posted by entrippy
You're not out searching for your Homeworld, you're defending it against a brutal and cunning opponent. Every minute counts for an Hiigaran life - and if you think Karan S'Jet will hang around to organise her fleets and get the control groups right while Hiigaran blood is being spilled, you need to recheck your history books.
Quality comment.
I think it's a great idea! I was bored harvesting after killing all those fowel beasts... I liked playing with my new ships too, but I can have fun like this, gotta add to the tension of the game!
Relic talks like Karan, cause they "are" Karan...
:yippee: Can't wait to see the Kadeshi....(Don't burst my bubble!)
Goodnight all!
:gnight:
Now I just HAD to register to add my thoughts here.
Well, this thought is true and I've always been a fan of Homeworlds story - it kept me going! BUT - and this is a big but - this is not a lesson in history! Why, the game won't be less exciting if you would leave us with time at the end of the missions. Somehow I cannot really enjoy my victory if I'm shoved out of the level ASAP. I'm a real HW-Fan, but this definitely is annoying. I wonder why you resist making this optional. Would it hurt?You're not out searching for your Homeworld, you're defending it against a brutal and cunning opponent. Every minute counts for an Hiigaran life - and if you think Karan S'Jet will hang around to organise her fleets and get the control groups right while Hiigaran blood is being spilled, you need to recheck your history books.
And as mentioned, it is not only to organize my fleet (I'd prefer doing this at the beginning of each mission anyways), but to relish on your beautiful graphics. I'm not quite happy with this decision...
Sure? Well... :vikingb:Once again - this is Homeworld2. Much is familiar, but much has changed - and once you get used to the changes you'll wonder why you ever preferred the old way.
BiB
Dont be so nitpicky about every small thing. It shortens your life and limits your gaming experience. Its just a game for crying out loud! Just enjoy it...:juggle:
I felt like this at first. Almost as if we're being cheated out of the experience.Originally posted by BigBonsai
And as mentioned, it is not only to organize my fleet (I'd prefer doing this at the beginning of each mission anyways), but to relish on your beautiful graphics. I'm not quite happy with this decision...
BiB
Still, the campaign is even-driven, and it _fits_. You still get to dislocate your jaw in skirmishes tho, so you'll get your fill of the pretty graphics.
Well, as mentioned before, we may get used to it.
BUT: Officially we're told that this is due to realism and time pressure within the missions, but serious - how realistic is it to collect several resourcable Asteroids within a split second? Just a thought... :nod:
BiB
I can live with it but I was a lil upset when it just closed out the mission and said "resources collected". Like many others have mentioned, it was a fun time to take in the view, ships, build up, organize....gasp at the shock and aw of your super fleet youve made from taking time to collect RU's and plan.
This was intrumental to me in setting the game on a different level then many others I have played.
I will say this tho.......WOW OMG WOOOHA WOOOOHA HOLLY &&&& SMACK IT ON A BINGBONG PIMPILISTIC.....Game was beutiful!!!!!!!!
No one is really crying about the change.. we are giving our opinions for and against the change.. but as the poster above mentioned. If we are forced to jump then exactly how do we end up collecting all the resources?Originally posted by BigBonsai
Well, as mentioned before, we may get used to it.
BUT: Officially we're told that this is due to realism and time pressure within the missions, but serious - how realistic is it to collect several resourcable Asteroids within a split second? Just a thought... :nod:
BiB
If you're going to use the story as the excuse for this change... then at least make it plausible. So whatever resources have been collected when the level ends, should be the same amount we have at the next mission... or else the whole "you're a hunted people and just don't have time to hang around" thing is irrelevant.
Doesn't happen in a split second - there's a fade out and a fade back (ie, the classic "Time has passed" conceit that movies use) so time is actually being taken to grab the final resources (in most cases, at least).Originally posted by BigBonsai
Well, as mentioned before, we may get used to it.
BUT: Officially we're told that this is due to realism and time pressure within the missions, but serious - how realistic is it to collect several resourcable Asteroids within a split second? Just a thought... :nod:
BiB
I've got to say, I'm surprised to see people complaining about the fact that we've fixed the number one most complained about "feature" of the original Homeworld. Sure, Cata had a fix, but time-accelleration isn't very cinematic. We're all about keeping you inside the experience wherever possible.
Yep.Originally posted by BigBonsai
I wonder why you resist making this optional. Would it hurt?
Quick run down on how game development works, in order to clarify a bunch of questions that have come up. We work in a limited timeframe and attempt to make the best game we possibly can. Any feature added means another feature removed.
Making something "optional" so that it works both ways isn't a quick task, either. While you'd think that (for example) the automatic resource collection option would be a straightforward process, it's not.
Why? Because if we do something one way consistently, then we can rely upon it elsewhere (as we do, with the auto-mission completion). We cannot simply let you "hang around" - because the assumption right up until adding the option is that things will always work one way.
Imagine that "Auto-Resource" takes 2000 RU's to implement. This might lead one to think that adding in "Manual Resource" would only take another 2000 RU's, max. Surely less in fact, as the groundwork is all there already?
But that ain't the way it works, unfortunately - if the option is added in the early stages of the project, then at least everything else (mission scripts, speech, code to flush levels, etc etc) has been built with the options in mind. However, you've still got to build them to work either way - so every other part of the project gets time added on. You're potentially looking at tens of thousands of RU's worth of labor, by the time the project is finished. And you know what? That would have had to come from somewhere - so some other feature would have been cut along the way.
Now, if it was decided that it needed adding LATE in the project, you're in nightmare city - you've got to go back and check that everything works under the new optional method. If it doesn't, you need to make the fixes. It's painful, to say the least.
So we have to make a call on these things - and the call was a very simple "People loudly expressed their hatred for waiting around for resource collection. So much so that Cata added a jury-rigged fix that solved the problem, but also wasn't ideal. This time around, we build it right, from the ground up."
The other thing is - no-one who is complaining has any idea what impact this has on the game, as all you've seen so far is one instance of hyperspacing out. What happens when you hyperspace back in? Between missions? Who can say! You're worried (as far as I can tell) for two reasons
1) You're used to it working one way.
2) You're thinking about Homeworld2 as if it was Homeworld.
Now, if you kept Homeworld *exactly* as it is now, with the exception of changing things so you auto-hyperspaced out of the mission when you were done, it would suck. We all know that. No-one debates that. HW was not built with this functionality in mind - but Homeworld2 was, from the base up. It makes a big difference.
Which is not to say that I don't understand why you're concerned - but honestly, if you want to play Homeworld, you'll have to play Homeworld. Homeworld2 is not the same game with prettier packaging - and frankly, if it was, I'd never have wanted to work on it.
Hope this doesn't sound annoyed - I'm not. In fact I think it's fantastic that we have a community who are willing to not only talk to the dev team but listen as well, which is why I go to the trouble of explaining reasoning where possible.
Thank you Entrippy, That explanation really puts my mind at ease. yes, I was thinking of it in terms of HW1 mission structure and it would suck. great answer!!! :clap:
Originally posted by entrippy
Hope this doesn't sound annoyed - I'm not. In fact I think it's fantastic that we have a community who are willing to not only talk to the Dev team but listen as well, which is why I go to the trouble of explaining reasoning where possible.
Ok, I'm cool with that. I hope you don't get the feeling that I am bashing you guys. I certainly don't mean to sound that way. I also realize it is impossible to please everyone but it is obvious you're trying to.
I am very happy to see Devs here talking. I do appreciate the hard work and the time you fellas and have put into the game and I will show my appreciation by being one of the first in line to grab a couple of copies on release day.
Your explanation satisfies me and I know I have only seen 2 missions and I really have no idea what's in store or how this will all play out but I am excited about it.
Maybe you can add a map in one of the patches called the "LookeyLoo" map or something as a way for those of us who like to spend hours rubbernecking at our fleets and day dreaming about really being out there.... or not.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to discuss it with us.. that really says a lot about the Dev team and shows that y'all care about what you have created.
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