Inquisition : Daemonhunt. A mod for DC 1.2

[farseer_derek]

on a lighter note ^^ BO vs Tau as DH

que @ HQ:Builder,Bodyguards

Builders 1-2:rax + gen

bodyguards cap 1-2 pts while waiting for inquisitor

@ Rax : stormtroopers + rhino later, this squad will cap the map while using the rhino for speed

Bodyguards + inquisitor go harass as soon as inquisitor is made

lp pts

rhino for bodyguard squad w/attached inqusitor

get lots of acolytes in your bodyguard squad as they are good at cc and thats what you need them for vs tau

when you have the req get a 2nd stormtrooper squad and deepstrike it into the fight

the idea is to cc the fw/tc so they can do jackshit damage to you, to stop you losing members when your running up you get in a rhino and take advantage of their piss poor t1 vechile damage you then get out in the middle of their lines, and cc them, they'll run, you set back to ranged stance and shoot when they stop cc them, taking advantage of their setup time also deattach inquisitor to go tank the TC

oh yes KotCR i wouldnt know about flamers (don't use them prefer to wait a bit and get a libarium then get weapon upgrade and give them plasma ^^) but if they are OP then sure change them, hmm... make rhino cost a tad more but keep it in T1 area because DH would lose map control for sure w/o it as their capping squads are 180 and can't be built from the HQ.... it makes IG look like it has good econ...

[jeddy00]

nerf Inquisitor HP by ~500 he can tank any other T1 hero and come out better off and costs a hell of alot less he has 3300! HP T1 and your saying thats balanced??? costs 220/50 and beats the chaos lord while still having green HP

yes, but can ANYTHING else at T1 kill an enemy hero? I ask you that. anyway, just because in examination between two units where DH come off better, doesn't mean they're better over-all, and they aren't (hence the weak stormtroopers).

[KotCR]

If he's significantly more powerful yet noticibly cheaper something's wrong (and he is significantly more powerful, he doesn't even come close to dying against many heroes).
The Storm Troopers, as I've described, aren't weak. Particularly since you got Rhinoes to pick and choose your battles.

oh yes KotCR i wouldnt know about flamers (don't use them prefer to wait a bit and get a libarium then get weapon upgrade and give them plasma ^^) but if they are OP then sure change them, hmm... make rhino cost a tad more but keep it in T1 area because DH would lose map control for sure w/o it as their capping squads are 180 and can't be built from the HQ.... it makes IG look like it has good econ...

Well the problem is really how fast they come out; You don't have many squads out by the time the Inquisition can get them, so you first few squads get stuck in a broken state. So then when your next squad or two comes out, his next squad or two also comes out and you get beaten because you have one or two incapicated squads already.

Kinda hard to explain it really, but think of it as a snowball effect.

[jeddy00]

then again, it really depends on your style of play, I never use transports so it's perfectly balanced for me

[AshaD]

Please note that the inquisitor gets a bonus for having acolytes on the field, I can't remember if we removed the stacking effect but I believe the inquisitor starts with 2800hp which gets boosted if you fill the bodyguard squad with acolytes.

[dreddnott]

By himself at Tier 1, with no bodyguard, the Inquisitor has 1850 health. This is reasonable, similar to a Force Commander or Necron Lord.

Each Acolyte adds 300HP, it stacks four times, so he ends up with 1200HP more, or 3050 health at the additional cost of 4 Acolytes. This is more than any other hero in the game at any Tier level for a much lower total cost, at Tier 1. The Acolytes themselves are no slouches either.

I just tested it, and without engaging my Inquisitor's Bodyguard squad I was able to use the pumped-up Inquisitor to defeat the Chaos Lord (you know, the hero that beats all the other heroes in Tier 1?) while being attacked by two Cultist squads and a Chaos Space Marine squad. He only lost one-third of his health, and I didn't even use my Bodyguard squad, which has powerful Hellguns that unfairly outrange LP2s (available at Tier 0!).

It also seems to me that his health regeneration rate is too high - he gains health while being shot at by an LP2 and attacked by Cultists, even when in Negative Cover!

Wait, it looks like this is actually due to a defense bonus from the Inquisitor's Bodyguard squad that always gives the Inquisitor the equivalent to at least a Heavy Cover bonus, even when not attached. So a 3050HP Commander that takes about as much damage as a Wraith would. Silliness.

Tier 0 and Tier 1 are the most important ones to balance, because if they aren't balanced, nobody gets to the higher Tiers because they get Commissar or Vespid or Landspeeder rushed in the first 3 minutes of the game.

[ravenmorpheus]

Hi Guys

Has anyone noticed and fixed the Fatal AI Error that occurs when you play with the assassinate winconditions on?

[jeddy00]

this would probably be due to that fact that they (I may be wrong here) haven't added a new wincondition for it, the error itself would be caused by the DH race not being included in the wincondition, and when someone plays as DH with assassinate on, the wincondition goes all like "FTW? what do I do here?" and dies. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.

[GRLSOV]

Checked recently to see what's going on with the mod (I still thought it was under development) and was pleased to see it was out. Although I only play skirmishes against the AI, I really like it.
Great work guys!

[ravenmorpheus]

On the subject of the assassinate winconditions fatal ai error - they are in the file for it so I don't know what the problem is, I've got round it but don't ask how cos I don't have a clue what I did.

On another note - I'm using the IDH mod as a required mod and I've been toying with the teamcolor_preview list - sorry guys if you don't want people to do that, I haven't touched any of the coding, just added a unit into the preview

Anyway I've added the LR Crusader to the preview list and it comes out with the normal weapons for an LR, but in the game it has the weapons it's supposed to - any ideas why anyone?

[thudmeizer]

On the subject of the assassinate winconditions fatal ai error - they are in the file for it so I don't know what the problem is, I've got round it but don't ask how cos I don't have a clue what I did.

Ouch.. Fatal Execution AI error when you play against a DH AI enemy with the Assassinate Win condition set? Hmm.. that can be easily addressed. Anyone can confirm this? I'm @ work so cannot test.

[Promythyus]

I can Confirm That. I was Chaos, vs-ing DH, only Assasinate. I got a Fatal AI Error.
This is in the console:
AI--*ALERT:[string races/inquisition_daemonhunt/tactics/d..]: 55:attempt to call method 'TryAttachAssasinate' (A Nil Value)

[ravenmorpheus]

I can see the problem straight away - assassinate should have 4 esses?!

That's probably what is causing the problem - change the spelling and it'll work.

Be back in a minute to confirm after I've tried that.

[jeddy00]

Anyway I've added the LR Crusader to the preview list and it comes out with the normal weapons for an LR, but in the game it has the weapons it's supposed to - any ideas why anyone?

this is something that seemed to get me too, I think it happens when viewing any unit in the army painter that is based off of a pre-existing unit, you see the original unit instead, but I haven't a clue why

[AshaD]

I think raven (Refering to your landraider front end army painter problem) Is because the crusader uses the landraider base mesh but comes with alternative weapons upon being spawned.

[ravenmorpheus]

Erm ok no joy. I checked the AI file and assassinate is spelt correctly?! I ran the game anyway and as soon as I started the mission I won by assassination?!

Game lasted 2 seconds. Wtf?!

I was playing against Necrons if that helps.

@ AshaD - ah ok I see now, because it's using the LR base mesh the army painter defaults the model to the original LR.

I know what I did to solve the fatal ai error on the assassinate wincondition - I spelt the name of the race I'd added to the list of races in the assassinate wincondition file correctly - this being because I'm running the IDH mod as a required mod, but also I've had the same thing happen when running the mod on it's own, so I know it was a tiny bug in the IDH mod.

Overall though guys I am hugely impressed, playing against them is really entertaining.

[jeddy00]

@AshaD, so it isn't actually a complete model without the regular GK land raider? huh...

[compiler]

The Landeraider and Crusader are a single, original, model.

[ravenmorpheus]

Ok about the fatal ai error on the assassinate win condition - it seems I did not solve the problem.

It seems to be a random occurence becausw it doesn't happen every time I play the IDH?

Is this something that can be solved or is it just one of those niggling little bugs that can't be got rid of?

[Hydronis]

Just a quick question(do not know if it has been answered before because there are 45 pages of text) do the diffrent scholars leaders bonuses stack? What I mean is if I get say 2 servo skulls will it have any more effect on the nearby inquisitor than if I had 1 servo skull nearby?

Also i wanted to know what combinations you players find good for the Inquisiton Bodyguard, because I am trying to use them better but I am really not finding any good reason to buy the Special Weapons or the Melee servitor, mainly because the Gun Servitor outclasses the Special Weapons Leader and the bodyguard are too fragile to charge them in to melee.

[compiler]

"do the diffrent scholars leaders bonuses stack?"
Nope.
At least they shouldn't...

[ravenmorpheus]

Ok this time as far as I know I've solved the fatal ai error on the assassinate wincondition.

This is how:

I copied the lines from line 57 onwards (where it says -- Assassinate win condition -- never attach to a squad) of the space marine force commander tactic file feom the IDH mod and then pasted them over the same entry in the dhlord tactic file in the IDH mod.

This seems to have solved the problembut there is a slight flaw- if your playing against necrons the cpu loses automatically after 2 seconds?!

Apart from that minor flaw the solution seems to work? EDIT: Also happens if you play as Necrons - 2 seconds: you lose

EDIT 2: Actually I just tried the game without my minor amendment and the same thing happens although I've solved the fatal ai error I have had no impact on the Necron assassinate problem.

Can anyone solve this slight flaw?

[Ghost Down]

How the voice patch coming along?!

[KotCR]

By himself at Tier 1, with no bodyguard, the Inquisitor has 1850 health. This is reasonable, similar to a Force Commander or Necron Lord.

Heh, well it's not really that reasonable when you consider:

1 - The Inquisitor is cheaper than the Force Commander
2 - The Inquisitor does more damage than the Force Commander
3 - The Force Commander is already over priced (not the mod teams fault, mind, they can't {without altering the SM race} and shouldn't change that).

I won't comment on the Necron Lord, seems anything Tau or Necron at the mo is pretty taboo anyway.

[AshaD]

Hydronis, don't forget you can only use the servitors if you have the inquisitor so if you can't afford him use the special weapons troopers. It's really just a different tactica, if you plan to attach the inquisitor to the bodyguard squad then its best to use melee servitors to support the servitor in combat.

[erdrik]

This seems to have solved the problembut there is a slight flaw- if your playing against necrons the cpu loses automatically after 2 seconds?!

Just a wild guess but perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the Necron Lord starts out as a corpse?

[Hydronis]

I almost always have the Inquisitor thought because without him you lose the 2 most powerful options in the Inquisitions arsenal, I also like keeping my units seperate so they can gain experience because I play with heroes and if you join heroes with squads than they keep the squads level and when you un attatch your hero he keeps his old level. (i.e joining a level 1 inquisitor with a level 5 bodyguard will make him level five,and then they get to level 6 and you unattatch the hero he will go back to level 1, if that makes sense)

[Rogue 9]

When playing on Kasyr Lutien with this mod (Guard, Marines, and Inquisition vs. 3 Chaos comps), the game invariably crashes to desktop after about twenty minutes or so.

[Lordoftheflies]

I'm not sure if this intentional or not but the Info files that come with the mod say Stormtroopers can only be deepstriked after a Tribunal is added to your Inquisitor Tower, this is wrong as they can be deepstriked in Tier 1 and as a result are considerably more mobile than any other Tier 1 Infantry which is kind of Imba.

[CLR]

This mod is awesome! I love the builder unit, and I've developed a soft spot for those grey knight termies - the animation was great (tres beau Falk).

Congratulations to all involved!

[thudmeizer]

This is how:

I copied the lines from line 57 onwards (where it says -- Assassinate win condition -- never attach to a squad) of the space marine force commander tactic file feom the IDH mod and then pasted them over the same entry in the dhlord tactic file in the IDH mod.

This seems to have solved the problembut there is a slight flaw- if your playing against necrons the cpu loses automatically after 2 seconds?!

Thanks Raven! I found out the problem when I got back from work tonight also. I have made the changes and will ensure Compiler has that for the forthcoming DH patch.

[fuggles]

Yeah! I think it's really great that someone from Relic took the time to post here - nice one CLR!

@raven - have you tried assassinate without the IH mod? Can you not just copy that code for the necron? They certainly need to start with their leader upright.

[dreddnott]

Congratulations on your gold star from CLR, guys!

I wouldn't harp on the minor problems with this mod so much if it wasn't actually top-tier in the first place. Don't take any of my comments in the wrong way. :P

[FleshHammer]

I just would like to say wel done with thei mod. I have been using on and off for the last fornight now.

It really deserves it's own expansion pack. Thats really quality work. Right down to the music chosen to go with it. It really sets the mood for play.

keep up the good work.

[ravenmorpheus]

@ fuggles um no I tried coying over the same part of the script and it doesn't make a difference.

I think the Necron Lord tactic or the other Necron Lord files need a re-work to take into account the assassinate mission, although it does have assassination wincondition parts of the scripts?

I thought about using the original DXP2 Necron Lord script but there isn't one so that kind of sunk that idea!

I haven't tried it without the IDH mod but given the fact that it would use the original DXP2 AI I don't see how that would make a difference - apart from it would work but then I can't use any mods that way

It's not an IDH specific problem as far as I can tell - it's more to do with the way.

How do we get the Necron Lord to spawn as a standing unit in the same way as the other commander units? I think that would solve the problem?

[ravenmorpheus]

Ok I solved the Necron Lord assassinate mission problem - posted the solution in the adeptus midificatus forum.

[mel_danes]

Rouge 9 - I have played numerous games on that map, no problems as yet. Have you experienced this issue on any other map?

[compiler]

@ CLR : many thanks to you for taking from your precious time to support us. This is all the more appreciated because of your skills, your endless support of this community and never ending willingness to share your technical knowledge.

I know you are not speaking officially for Relic here, but it is very heart warming to have the support of someone like you.


Oh, and I think that Falk is seeking a job in 3D games these days...

[brother-horus]

something to do with the fact that the Necron Lord starts out as a corpse?

note that theyre talking about the assassination win condition, it doesnt start out as a corpse on that.

[jeddy00]

I'm not sure if this intentional or not but the Info files that come with the mod say Stormtroopers can only be deepstriked after a Tribunal is added to your Inquisitor Tower, this is wrong as they can be deepstriked in Tier 1 and as a result are considerably more mobile than any other Tier 1 Infantry which is kind of Imba.

remember that a 1 to 1 comparison with IDH units will, nine times out of ten show great differences, but this doesn't mean it's imba, because all those thousands of playtesting games made sure of that.

[Macca]

Just because a race can do something unique that other races can't do in a tier ,doesn't make it IMBA.

[medizichen]

does the bodyguard with acolyte need to be near the inquisitor in order for the additional 300 hp to take effect? and each additional acolyte gives an additional 300hp right?

[jeddy00]

no, they can be anywhere, and I think the additional HP stacks

[compiler]

At the moment, the Acolyte bonus should accur only when the Inquisitor is near the Acolyte.
As for stacking, we are working on this at the moment...

[Lordoftheflies]

remember that a 1 to 1 comparison with IDH units will, nine times out of ten show great differences, but this doesn't mean it's imba, because all those thousands of playtesting games made sure of that.

What about the fact it says it should only be available after you reach Tier 2

Because right now, with it being available in Tier 1, the use of transports becomes considerably more limited as you will probably only use them for your Inquisitor Lord/Bodyguards

Also I notice a severe lack of Hotkeys in the mod, which is something I suppose will be fixed in the next version of it.

[shrp]

For all of you who asked for the soundtrack, here it is:

http://files.filefront.com/Inquisiti.../fileinfo.html

All music included in this package is (C) 2007 Trompkins (Maciej Stankiewicz) and Claymore (M.D.). All rights reserved.
You are not allowed to distribute any part of this package independently, all included files cannot be modified in any way and must be distributed as a whole. The package can be distributed only under a condition that no fee is charged for such action. The music cannot be used as a part of another mod.

[CommodoreKitty]

You know, I only play this mod about half of the time, the other half I find myself staring at the models and listening to the music for extended periods. I love everything about this mod, from the balance to the models to the music. You have, without a doubt, greatly enhanced this game. It's good to hear that some of the members are trying to go into game design, it would be a shame to see this talent go to waist. All the problems have basically been addressed, and you seem well on your way to patching up everything, so I thought I would just emphasize that this mod rocks, and serious kudos to the whole team.

[ElizLestrad]

Id like to make a suggestion: The heads on the Deathwatch marines backs are a little distracting and detract from the beauty of the model itself in my opinion. But thats just me. Love everything else.

[dreddnott]

Fantastic logic there, jeddy and Macca. For a second there I was afraid the team might be convinced that Daemon Hunters are broken in Tier 0/1...

It looks like the cover bonus the Acolyte grants the Inquisitor Lord might be stacking as well as the HP buff, because 4x Acolytes (anywhere on the map!) means he regenerates health while being shot at by an LP2 while standing in Negative Cover.

The early flamethrowers available to both the Bodyguard and Stormtrooper squads are also a bit overpowered, try a flamethrower rush against a human player to see what I mean.

Also Necrons automatically lose if you do a Maintenance Servitor rush - they do great CC damage, move fairly quick, are insanely cheap, and have too much mass to get knocked back by the Necron Warriors=Necrons all die. Meanwhile you have Tier 1 flamers on your Bodyguard squad following the Servitors around (easy to break Warriors that are busy), and you don't even need any Acolytes to buff the Inquisitor Lord, or Stormtroopers except for capping, but I suppose you could put flamethrowers on them as well.

Maintenance Servitor rushes don't seem to work so well against other races, where they function as defensive, used to repair buildings and disable enemy vehicles as intended.

I think Bodyguard squad Hellguns having even more range than an LP2 is also a bit unfair. They cost 40 req each, almost never ever break, and scale all the way to Tier 3/4. The only redeeming quality that they have is that they are vulnerable to certain CC units - the stronger and faster (read: Chaos Raptors) the better.

Does anybody else have or want to confirm any especially effective strategies that the Daemon Hunters race has to use against other races? They still seem somewhat balanced if the game progresses to the top of Tier 2, before the Grey Knights come out (not saying that Grey Knights are overpowered of course).

[jeddy00]

What about the fact it says it should only be available after you reach Tier 2

Also I notice a severe lack of Hotkeys in the mod, which is something I suppose will be fixed in the next version of it.

maybe it's a typo or they forgot to change what it said.

and.. are there even going to be any hotkeys?