What do you do to fight global warming?

[MardiGrasBandit]

Link removed

You can help make a difference! Help me help the Earth!

Global Warming is an undisputed fact in the scientific community. The Earth is getting hotter thanks to our abuse of the environment. If we don't come together to reverse our self destructive course, we face a future that is more then bleak, it is devastating. Inspired by Al Gore's message of hope in his Oscar winning film An Inconvenient Truth and the wisdom he imparted in his amazing Live Earth concerts, I have decided to sell the rights to my energy consumption and waste production for the next three months. With the first $10 bid I will endeavor to reduce my ecological footprint by 10%. For each $10 after that I will work to reduce my footprint by 2%, up to the maximum of a 50% reduction in the damage I inflict on our environment.

Why should you bid? Let me tell you about myself. I think of myself as an average person in terms of energy use and waste production, in other words, I'm terrible for the environment. I have looked over my lifestyle and realized there is so much I can do to make a positive change for this world, and I am ready to do everything I can. Unfortunately, it is not easy to do this. Changing my life will require much effort on many fronts; my home, my work, and changing the lives of those around me. Your money will help me finance the efforts I will make and help to reduce the ecological footprint I inflict on the environment.

What you get:

-Bi-weekly e-mail updates letting you know what I have done to improve my lifestyle, and environmentally friendly tips on how you can do the same.

-If the winning bid is over $100, you will receive an autographed copy of An Inconvenient Truth, your choice of book or DVD. If the winning bid is over $200, you will receive both!

-Should I publish a book or star in a movie about this adventure in helping the planet, you will receive a percentage of the proceeds that matches the percentage you paid me to reduce my ecological footprint.

-A clear conscience and the satisfaction of knowing you have helped make a difference in all of our futures!

I urge you all to bid! Even if you don't, be sure to show all your friends! Together we can make a difference!

This is my contribution to saving the planet. I already have a bid (don't worry, it's not too late for you to win)! What do you all do to help improve our environment?

[No Surrender]

All right folks. The purpose of this thread is not to discuss whether MardiGrasBandit's plan will work but what you do or could do to fight the spectre of global warming. Please, not "LOL, THAT'S STUPID" posts please.

[SquidDNA]

Seeing as a fair number of people on in the community are unconvinced that there's even a warming trend, let alone a warming trend influenced by human behavior, this thread might be more tumultuous than you may expect.

I expect that
1) Given a global warming trend is influenced by CO2 emissions
2) the more responsible and more industrialized nations manage to control their emissions
3 the up and coming developing nations are going to make up for it.

[severijn]

Well, if you want to know what you can do to limit your CO2 output you can as is easily imaginable extremely far: stop driving your car and share one with others or use the public transportation system more, stop drinking carbonated drinks, buy fresh food instead of food frozen with CO2 etc.

Unfortunatly, you'll find out that your efforts are wasted as the largest part of the population will not relinquish the comfort given by those CO2 contributing factors, using the "what is more likely"-theory. Therefore, you're only fooling yourself to believe your actions actually will change anything at all, as the entire point was that everyone changed(hooray for unattainable ideals!).

Finally, I'd like to point out that in one outburst, a volcano of average size will produce enough CO2 to dwarf all our efforts, and even dwarf our CO2 output. And all of this is assuming the theory is actually not a convenient way to create jobs for scientists and try to halt china's dangerously fast economic expansion.

[SquidDNA]

Stop drinking carbonated drinks? Are you serious?

[Energizer Bunny]

My sole real contribution is that I am always pretty diligent about switching things off when I'm not using them (i.e. not leaving TV's on standby and the like). I really have no idea why I do this - there certainly isn't a voice in the back of my head screaming about global warming.

The other thing (and I'm not really sure if this counts) is that I drive my car very little and tend to use public transport instead. Beyond that I'm afraid I really don't do much.

[Logga]

I encourage people to not eat baked beans because they taste bad and are not helping the planet

[Nurizeko]

Lets see, what do I do to fight global warming.

Well....I recycle, thats proven to be an extremely efficient beneficial way to stop climate change, right?...oh wait...


Um....I get halfway annoyed when my mother used to cut the lawn in the middle of summer when the daisies were pushing through, I mean, who would take a beautiful garden lawn green with white drops of daisy flower all over the place, and then ruin it with a lawn mower cutting the grass almost to the roots?.

Thats greenism isn't it?...


UUh...hmmm.....I grow cacti as a half-hobby, its important we have a large and stable population of succulents when the mean mean sun bakes the earth into one expansive desert that we all apparently must fear.


Um...I often note to my friends and family how last summer it was the hottest on record and this time we've been lucky to have 5 good days of decent sunshine going, the below average temperatures and increased amount of rain, raising awareness is half the battle!.


hmm, what do I do?...

Not much TBH, but then, I don't own a big belching factory that needs to be made environmentally friendlier, I don't run the industry of any of the polluting nations, I'm not chairman of a multinational cooperation with in-efficient un-green policies.

I suppose I could go live in a cave with nothing but dirt for clothing like my ancient forefathers, but in that situation, TB bluntly honest, if I have to chose between caveman lifestyle and a warmer planet, I'll take the warmer planet, and I'de probably still get fined for farting emissions and camp-fire pollution.


Oh and the original post is basically an advertisement, spam...is that allowed here now?...

[Nanolathe]

I'd like to point out that in one outburst, a volcano of average size will produce enough CO2 to dwarf all our efforts, and even dwarf our CO2 output.

Completely wrong. Yes in one burst it sends quite a lot of CO₂ but few volcanoes erupt Every Day. We push out much much more... just over a longer time frame.

I don't drive, I try and recycle most things, My TV is hardly used at all and I switch off my lights... I am illuminated only by the warm loving glow of my PC Monitor .

[severijn]

Well, if you are determined to lower your CO2 output...drinking less carbonated drinks will help, even though the amount of output generated by that is infinitesimal. When brought in the right perspective, most if not all of the things you could do to lower it are relatively infinitesimal.

If you ask me, it's more of an ideology than something actually practical. The guidelines I gave are because of that nothing more than ways to silence your conscience.

Oh, and about the volcano, I meant that as it produces enough to be equal to many years of CO2 output from humans.

[Nanolathe]

Con-sci-ence? What is this "Con-sci-ence" you speak of?

Also: Where do you get your 'facts' about CO₂ output?
It's very simple. Natural CO₂ emmisions have been around for billions of years and there is absolutely nothing we can do about those. Our form of pollution has only been around for a few hundred years, and staggeringly we are now running out of Oil to pollute with... doesn't that tell you anything?

[SquidDNA]

severijn, where does the CO2 that goes into carbonated drinks come from?

[Nanolathe]

Surprisingly enough Squid it is compressed out of... AIR!
Therefore balancing out the amount we put in compared to the amount we let out...

of course we have to use machinery to compress it and that uses up fuel... but it isn't actually the CO₂ in the drinks we need to worry about.

*Opens a can of Coca-Cola* Cheers!

[Nurizeko]

I try and recycle most things

I may be wrong but, wouldn't recycling plants basically undo all the effort put into recycling by their emissions?.

*shrugs*

If you ask me, it's more of an ideology than something actually practical. The guidelines I gave are because of that nothing more than ways to silence your conscience.

Lucky for me it doesn't really bother my conscience.

My main point with this main stream environmentalism lark is the gimmicks, the fad like nature of it, the fanatical nutjob like nature of the extremity, the illogical unreasonable stupidity of some peoples "green solutions", the irrational fear of modern nuclear power, using rock bands to "raise awareness" of something were already aware of, and causing no small amount of pollution and wasted energy to boot, and finally, this foolish notion that somehow its up to every middle class family who wants to keep up with the Jones' to save the planet by buying a silly little arm-band, and do cute little things to be greener, and this carbon trading lol-factory, even while we continue to blatantly waste energy and resources, China is churning out more industrial pollution every day, we still can't make any significant dents on our own, and all our apparent hard work can be undone by a days worth of east Asian emissions.

If climate change is a human created and human controllable phenomenon, then we should be able to do better then Madonna singing another one of her dusty dated songs that fell out of vogue years ago on a stage flashing with lights and screens, and all the other wastes of time and energy that was put into it.

[Nanolathe]

I may be wrong but, wouldn't recycling plants basically undo all the effort put into recycling by their emissions?.

*shrugs*

Depends what you are recycling. Aluminium is extraordinarily costly to mine and refine and yet much simpler and cost efficient to recycle.

And what happens when we dig up all the Aluminium, Oil, etc? you just gonna make some more? Good luck with your Alchemy.

[severijn]

I could just go ahead and ask what makes you so certain that the people who told you about global warming are right, considering you probably never did peer to peer studies or any other way to validate them, rather than just taking their word because they're scientist. And as we all know, they're always right.

Rather than doing just that and starting the beginning of the end of this thread, I'd say I read it in my Belgian geology books, thus also not doing peer to peer studies and just taking their word for it, because in reality, I don't really care about the volcano's output. Rather than that, I'd look at other factors contributing to global warming, like other gasses, such as the hydrogen that the ocean releases, and then I'd use logic and ask myself if we actually really matter when compared against an ocean taking up 70% of the world.

Anyways, even with all that in mind, my understanding of science will not allow me to really be zealous about either way of this argument. Right now, some scientist claim that the world is coming to an end. This has happened before, like say the fear for another ice age earlier.
Fortunatly, with science, eventually scientists will be able to say it for sure, and untill that time, the best thing to do is just wait untill that happens.

So I'd suggest we don't start the entire argument about which side is correct, because by waiting a little longer(when all scientist get to a consensus), we'll get to see which side is right.

The main point I actually tried to show here is that to really make a difference according to the current theory, is that we all should change, and that's a nice ideal. Like all ideals, it'll never happen, so why should we bother?

In the end, the state of the world is not really my responsibility anyways.

EDIT: Oh, right squid, sorry.

[Nanolathe]

In the end, the state of the world is not really my responsibility anyways.

**I am apologising in advance for the one word answer here**

Wow.

Now if only everyone had this attitude... oh wait we're close enough already. Excellent.

The Human race doesn't deserve to survive the next global catastrophe. I hope we all die... Soon. The planet will be much better off.

[jorulius]

Well I do think becoming less wasteful and more efficient is always a good thing, but I fail to see how this will stop global warming since there are so many factors contributing to it. Human activity being just one of them. Also all these rockstars and the like who suddenly become experts on the matter, ugh, they seriously get on my nerves.

[severijn]

If you don't mind me asking, what makes the state of the world your responsibility, nanolathe?

[Illiandri2]

I am energy efficient in most manners. I recycle, i tend to switch off electrical devices and do most things that help reduce my foot print. The only fault of mine is that i have a passion for cars. Thus i tend to drive alot,although in an energy efficient one, but i have redeemed myself by taking part in building a solar car for England.

It is indeed true that we as single people can do nearly nothing to reduce CO2 emmisions but as a mass we can. Big coorporations have decided to look into alternative energy sources and invest in them. But again that is not the problem but i fear i might be going into a rant so i will stop here.

[Energizer Bunny]

His point is that it is all our responsibility, not his specifically.

[Moe]

Well, being an environmentally conscious person I turn off the lights in the lab when I go to lunch. Of course that still leaves the 55,000 Watt laser power transformer running, which uses up as much power as 1,000 light bulbs, but hey.

[Starfisher]

I trawl the internets looking for promising alternative energy companies to invest in.

I haven't found any yet.

This sucks.

Moe we need you to create an OMGLOL LASER that hits a OMGYELLOWBALL and makes free energy. I know you can do it! Try not to destroy the city too many times.

[Nanolathe]

Thank you Energizer. That was exactly my point
The sort of non-caring attitude of people like Severijn is exactly the reason the world is going to hell in a hand basket. (Well that's what I think anyway) Unfortunately that sort of attitude seams to be the prevailing trend in the world today.

[Starfisher]

That's the way everyone has always thought. It's not new nor is it surprising. Generally, the activist/crusader mindset is the outlier, not the "leave me alone and let me make a living" mindset.

My pet theory is that only very deluded or sheltered folk manage to make it into adulthood with a crusading mindset. Everyone else outgrows it or is forced into reality by way of having to provide for a family, hold down a job, etc.

The world doesn't need saving. Humans need a new primary energy source. Mixing the two up doesn't get you anywhere.

[Vakarian]

People are so used to the way they live i.e cars PCs central heating, that many arn't prepared to sacrifice. A much better way is to create new technology that when we consumers use won't gank the planet, everyone wins then.

[CwnAnwnn]

Seeing as a fair number of people on in the community are unconvinced that there's even a warming trend, let alone a warming trend influenced by human behavior, this thread might be more tumultuous than you may expect.

Global warming is a fact. If you're not a leading scientist with acess to real data you should stop spending so much time forming your "opinions" and more time reading.


I have every outlet in my home on a powerstrip and i cut them off when i leave.

buy a car with high MPG or ride a bike.

don't throw away and waste so much stuff.

in the end it will take major change from Govs. to fix the problem, but its good to be part of the solution.

The Relic forums are made up of people with many diverse beliefs, if you wish to disagree, you are free to. However, do so in a way that does not insult other people with name calling. The offending parts of your post have been deleted.
Thanks
-No Surrender

[Energizer Bunny]

My pet theory is that only very deluded or sheltered folk manage to make it into adulthood with a crusading mindset. Everyone else outgrows it or is forced into reality by way of having to provide for a family, hold down a job, etc.

That's absolutely true. Realism is aged optimism.

[Moe]

People are so used to the way they live i.e cars PCs central heating, that many arn't prepared to sacrifice

Yeah see you're not supposed to sacrifice them. You're not being asked to start living in the stone age, but maybe you use energy saving light bulbs and a car that doesn't get three miles per gallon.

[norfolknclue]

I would argue that global warming is undisputed. There are very real scientists who do indeeed dispute the global warming theory. There are facts that support it, but there are also facts that don't - it's just the support structure that you choose to interpret those facts, and that's the part that's in dispute.

However, in order to do my bit, I've just bought a 3.2litre V6 sports car.

[Dr. Awesome]

Every one can help prevent climate change in the way we're doing now, the question is will it be enough? Environmentalism, now, for most people, is little more than a fashion statement, we just hope it's one that people don't tire of quickly. It should be a life-long commitment, the goal at the centre of every community, part of the global mentality. As for basic household measures, I think people should put more emphasis on reduction rather than recycling, to me it's just a way of living exactly as you always do whilst feeling less guilty. The main way to prevent climate change is by using less generally, and recycling that which you can't live without.
As for me, I spend my life in one room, in front of one appliance with my mice and cacti, helping with the gardening occasionally, not eating a lot, and recycling, though I'd like to do more.

[Guilliman]

I don't plan to get a drivers licence. Thats what I do. I don't see the point in getting it and spend to much on a car and gas for it. I'd rather wait a bit more and use the public transportation untill a good clean car is cheap to buy (cheaper then they are now)

[Moe]

There are very real scientists who do indeeed dispute the global warming theory

Writing a thesis paper that blatantly misinterprets facts because you're being paid to do so doesn't make you a "real scientist". Additionally, there are also "very real scientists" who believe in UFOs, Jetis, perpetuum mobiles, mind control, and that Einstein's theory is a conspiracy by the government.

Global warming or more accurately climate change isn't something you believe or don't believe in depending on how you interpret the data. It's something that's happening.

[norfolknclue]

Ok, maybe I should rephrase that. The global temperature is rising - of that there is little doubt. However, there are no concrete fact which can link what we do to the fact it is happening. I accept that we have an effect, but whether we are the main cause is something that is up for debate.

In other news, I have switched to electricity suppliers that guarantee they get a portion of their power (I think it's around 30%) from renewable resources (wind, solar wave etc), and am currently investigating ways to put power back into the grid via photovoltaic energy.

What does worry me though is that the energy (and resources) required to produce such alternative energy sources (i.e. the oil and nasty chemicals required to produce said solar cells, wind farms (not to mention the general way they ruin the landscape)) will never equal the energy they save.

It's interesting this came up on a gaming site too, where no doubt most people's rigs are using at least a 500W power supply and with the advent of SLi, Corssfire and now triple cossfire, PC's are reaching the point where 1Kw power suplies will be needed. Add this into the production processes for all the circuit boards, chips etc, and the general throwaway culture that chip companies rely upon to stay in business (the constant upgrade path etc etc), and none of us are 'carbon positive' to use fashionable phrase.

That 'Live earth' bugged me too. All that power used in lighting rigs and sound systems, plus people's cars to get to the gig would surely have been better if it hadn't have been done.

[Troubleshooter]

Global warming or more accurately climate change isn't something you believe or don't believe in depending on how you interpret the data. It's something that's happening.

But the cause is still very much in debate. The cause is all that matters, really. The bottom line is that the Earth has and will continue to go through changes, but the question is, does Humanity have its thumb on the scales of climate change. More to the point, can man affect climate change? If we can affect it, then the question becomes, should we affect it?

The prevailing dogma is that we can, we are, and we are headed toward a major disaster unless we take positive action to reverse our impact. I still dont buy it. Theres lots of people that dont. But I am willing to entertain the possibilty that I am wrong and take prudent measures to mitigate human impact until there is a conclusive link to humanity and climate change, and then a viable solution to how we can take afirmative control of the climate... or we rule ourselves out of it and go about our merry way.

Then ofcourse you have to determine what climate you want and terraform the earth to that spec. This will be a rather humorous debate in climate democratization as the countries that ring the arctic will have an economic interest in exploiting their natrural resources

[Inst]

Fighting global warming is like a bicyclist trying to outrun a tank

NSFW

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20050522_5.jpg

. It's too late. Inevitably, water levels will rise and the climate will change, and all of this will be significant. THe question is by what degree.

[Vaarok]

Only a few thousand years ago the land where I live was under two miles of ice sheet. A degree in a century is not convincing evidence.

[Starfisher]

You can't expect anyone to take you seriously if you think reducing 40 years of research into a single non-comprehensive sentence is convincing.

[Moe]

I still dont buy it. Theres lots of people that dont.

My problem with that kind of statement is that the "lots of people who don't" mostly know jack shit about environmental physics. This is like me saying "I don't buy this whole genetics crap" without having the first clue about it.

Your beliefs are your own, but saying "I don't buy it" without actually understanding it makes you seem rather foolish.

What does worry me though is that the energy (and resources) required to produce such alternative energy sources (i.e. the oil and nasty chemicals required to produce said solar cells, wind farms (not to mention the general way they ruin the landscape)) will never equal the energy they save.

That's not true. Yes, solar cells aren't very efficient right now, but there are several things wrong with your statement.

-"will never equal"? There's research being done. New technologies are usually pretty inefficient in the beginning, they have to be refined and revised and improved.
-wind power plants are actually quite efficient. The energy cost for building one is offset rather quickly. They do ruin the landscape, but you can place them offshore for example. There's also the question of how much an oil power plant would ruin any landscape...

[norfolknclue]

There's also a high environmental cost with producing PV cells, which I forgot to include and instead rashly lumped in with the 'energy' word I used.

The energy cost for the constuction of a propellor system is quite high I'd say: Creation of cement and concrete (plus the attendant chemical cost/pollution), the diesel of all the heavy equipment required to build the supporting column, the motor itself, and the propellers, which are no doubt made of some high grade poly-carbon material which requires oil to make.

Be interesting to see exactly how long they take to recoup the entire construction cost with regards to their lifespan (which seems to be about 20 years). I suspect analysis that takes into account all factors does not exist.

[dreddnott]

Inst is basically correct, there's nothing this current generation (or the next few) can do to reverse global warming by reducing carbon dioxide emissions.

In fact, it might take up to one hundred thousand years for CO2 levels to reach their pre-industrial level if humanity ceased to exist. Frankly I think the Earth has been taking it rather well.

Things I have done for "the planet":

Drove the wheels off of a 50MPG car (my current vehicle gets a sinful 30MPG, tops)
Worked for a computer recycling warehouse for a year

My pet project however is spreading awareness about the biodiversity of harvester ants in the High Desert -with the Pogonomyrmex genus being displaced by Linepithema humile and Solenopsis invicta, the local horny toads have no food source and are fast disappearing. This is something tangible that people can really get into and actually make a difference doing.

[norfolknclue]

30 MPG! pah! I get about 10 if I drive it hard. 28 if I drive as nicely as possible.

[BlackLabel]

I dont belive in cars...i only ride my skateboard/bike...i buy local food...i mean...what else ? Oh, and i try to get a job at a firm that produces solar pannels...

[Troubleshooter]

Your beliefs are your own, but saying "I don't buy it" without actually understanding it makes you seem rather foolish.

Is it not true in reverse?

Do people who "buy into" AGW without knowing the environmental physics also come off as foolish?

Also, you are making an assumption about my level of knowlege on the subject based on my position regarding that subject. Thats kind of a hallmark of bias.

[Cyberbob]

Do people who "buy into" AGW without knowing the environmental physics also come off as foolish?

The difference is, my dear Trouble, is that the scientists who attempt to debunk AGW do so by twisting the facts & figures something nasty.

If someone could be called a fool for buying into anything they didn't understand, then we're all a pack of loons - because I'm pretty sure that nobody understands the science behind everything we do or use.

[Troubleshooter]

The difference is, my dear Trouble, is that the scientists who attempt to debunk AGW do so by twisting the facts & figures something nasty.

Thats not always true either. There are plenty of honest people on the other side who are simply persuing their own discipline of science which leads them to climate change theory that makes AGW impact shrink to near insignificance.

Making AGW into a political/economic issue has turned the science and debate about that science into a football. Some people on both sides see advancement of their particular POV more important than getting it right. Throw in a dash of FUD to cement your backers to your cause and watch the whole thing polarize into a stagnant mess....

Its gotten to the point that if you take a position of "I dont know" you are deemed a flat-earther with not ability to reason your way out of a paper bag.

[Moe]

Be interesting to see exactly how long they take to recoup the entire construction cost with regards to their lifespan (which seems to be about 20 years). I suspect analysis that takes into account all factors does not exist.

There are turbines nowadays that comfortably churn out about 2 Megawatts. Let's say there's only wind 50% of the time (which is a very conservative estimate as they're usually built in windy places), so their net yield is 1 MW. That's 1 million joules per second or 86.4 Gigajoule per day. A year has 365.25 days, which translates to 35.5 terajoules of energy per year. A 20 year lifecycle then means around 700 terajoules of energy generated in total. I couldn't find anything on the amount required to build a turbine, but 700 terajoules is quite a lot of energy: it's the equivalent of almost 170 kilotons of TNT or the energy released by a small strategic thermonuclear warhead.

Also, you are making an assumption about my level of knowlege on the subject based on my position regarding that subject. Thats kind of a hallmark of bias.

No, I'm making an assumption about your level of knowledge based on the content of your posts. As for people "buying into" global warming, well, there's a difference between "these guys do this for a living and they say this is how it is, and I believe them because I have no reason not to" and "these guys do this for a living and they say this is how it is, yet I choose to not believe them because uhm... yeah I think they're wrong".

[norfolknclue]

That's precisely the point Cyberbob. There is no direct evidence in either direction.

[Noble]

Maybe you guys should start discussing the causes, or lack thereof, of global warming rather than trading stereotypes with one another. Personally, after doing a bit of reading on the subject, human causation seems very feasible to me.

Correlation certainly isn't causation, but it is enough to make us raise an eyebrow. It is true that an increase in temperature alone is not proof that humans have caused such an increase. However, CO2 concentrations are higher than they have been in the last 650,000 years. Atmospheric concentrations of CO2 and CH4 have increased by %31 and %141 since the year 1750. It is at this point that we begin to see a warming trend. We know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

We know the earth is warming up. We know that we have drastically increased the atmospheric concentrations of a gas that will cause the earth to warm up if the concentrations are high enough. We know that the warming trend began around the time of the industrial revolution, which is when we started pumping CO2 (among other things) into the air. This isn't enough to prove that we have caused the warming of the earth, but it is enough to form a sound theory.

[Cyberbob]

their own discipline of science

You've just confirmed my argument, you know?

-Edit-

That's precisely the point Cyberbob. There is no direct evidence in either direction.

I suggest you read the relevant posts again.