Hmmmm....I wonder if THQ noticed that World in Conflict hits stores on the 18th. Not to be negative or anything, that is a game I would not want OF to compete with.
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Hmmmm....I wonder if THQ noticed that World in Conflict hits stores on the 18th. Not to be negative or anything, that is a game I would not want OF to compete with.
dont lieYeah connection problems IS almost solved!,its still in
My connection problems seem solved...
A is for Automatch, and that's Good Enough For Me.
"Also, I can kill you with my brain."
aka CluelessSmurf
#54
I foresee release day patches...
(Previously, and still occasionally zbobet2012)
Online game play and balance will probably be screwed until november. Most ppl are casual online players and just enjoy the SP campaigns, so THQ feels that this can be released. If you look at the number of ppl online playing vCOH and WC3, I get the impression that WC3 gets a lot more traffic because I think they're MP at the core while COH seems more SP. (I enjoy MP more then SP, so this game just became buy when balance is better and price is cheaper for me)
I think WC3 has more players because Blizzard has a bigger marketing budget, and because more people (esp casual gamers) like the more spammy playstyle of WC3 or C&C. There are basic techniques in CoH (like dealing with HMGs) that aren't easy for a noob to grasp.
is that what the new factions are supposed to resemble...I think WC3 has more players because Blizzard has a bigger marketing budget, and because more people (esp casual gamers) like the more spammy playstyle of WC3 or C&C. There are basic techniques in CoH (like dealing with HMGs) that aren't easy for a noob to grasp.
while multiplayer balance tweaks might be necessary, isn't it primarily a single player campaign?
If I remember correctly, wasn't the multiplayer base of CoH only like 10% of those who purchased the game? In that case, getting the multi balance close and patching in more advanced support later is alright with me. I've been more looking forward to the single player campaign.
This is the way it usually works with new races/army books in tabletop. So why would a computer game be any different?Remembers me a bit of DC... where Necs and Tau were unbeatable and only Tau imba could win against Necron imba and other way arround... and old races were just screwed...
Death holds no fear only for the fool. An Astartes' duty is to control that fear and turn it into a blind hatred of the end of his life, for it brings with it the inability to fulfil his duty to the Emperor.
a bit offtopic:
wc3 has more players because it is blizzard
well balanced game due to really long beta,
4 diff. races with unique tech tree,
own rts playstile with heroes, items, creeps and the like.
it isnt based at all on spammy playstile.
+ stable player base online because it is big in rts esports and b.net matchmaking is stable as hell
so comparing wc3 with c&c is insulting for me in a way
guys please...this game is gold ? done ? not really
If this is true it is a huge mistake. The balance between vCoH and OF) is terrible, and you'll have to buy OF to stay competitive. There are going to be a ton of people seeing this and simply not buying OF on principle.
Relic. Get a top-community team of balancers (Sepha, HERO, Nystrom, Gol, all the other active top-10 or ex top-10 guys) to help you out with this. It helped GPG patch SupCom, and they are even helping in the creation of the expansion. Clearly, you can't balance it fast enough yourselves (unless there is some 10mb miracle patch around the corner).
COH and SupCom are two different beasts. One of the reasons the top players don't always get listened to by Relic is because they want to turn it into a RPS-based RTS when that's not what the design team at Relic wants. It's much easier to balance SupCom, WIC, C&C, etc than it is to balance something as dynamic as COH.
Europe In Ruins :: Persistent Online War for Company of Heroes and Opposing Fronts (MMORTS)
http://www.moddb.com/mods/8627/europe-in-ruins
* Voted Editor's Choice ModDB 2007
* 9.6 ModDB Rating
Game is far, FAR from done, I won't be picking it up until at least november (Ya know the time it was SUPPOSED to be released). I can still barely connect to anyone. And don't even get me started how completely screwed the balance is.
#64
@Fldash
game would have been easy to balance because there are historical data on tanks, you dont have to reinvent damage tables nor firing rate and so on... just the cost factor how much a thing cost...
i think supreme commander is even harder to balance because of the epic style battles which are possible
Bullshit. Direct, instant community feedback is EXACTLY what Relic needs to quickly patch this game. It all boils down to the same tactics vs tactics, units vs units and players are excellent at rooting out those problems in addition to quickly creating and testing fixes.COH and SupCom are two different beasts. One of the reasons the top players don't always get listened to by Relic is because they want to turn it into a RPS-based RTS when that's not what the design team at Relic wants. It's much easier to balance SupCom, WIC, C&C, etc than it is to balance something as dynamic as COH.
Realism makes for shitty gameplay. Using it as a basis for 'balance' would never work and suggesting such is ridiculous.
I guess I'm the only one who think the patches the past two days have fixed most of the connection problems and that the balance issues aren't that bad (granted I normally play 2v2, which the game was designed for).
There's no need to get emotional. I respectfully disagree and think if balance was left up to the TOP 1% of all players, the balance would be horrible for the other 99%.Bullshit. Direct, instant community feedback is EXACTLY what Relic needs to quickly patch this game.
Looks like i was right.
I just hope RO works like it should on release and the extra features are added.
1) I have to disagree with your first statement. Realism CAN make for great gameplay (i'm a fan of realistic shooters like Red Orchestra), but CoH is not an example of a game that would benefit from realism.Realism makes for shitty gameplay. Using it as a basis for 'balance' would never work and suggesting such is ridiculous.
I guess I'm the only one who think the patches the past two days have fixed most of the connection problems and that the balance issues aren't that bad (granted I normally play 2v2, which the game was designed for).
There's no need to get emotional. I respectfully disagree and think if balance was left up to the TOP 1% of all players, the balance would be horrible for the other 99%.
2) Games ARE NOT BALANCED FOR 2V2. Games have always been and WILL always be balanced for 1v1 on 1v1 maps because it is the most basic, fundamental measure we have. Try to balance a 4-sided game with 2v2 quadruples the ammount of work and trouble.
3) Top 1% of players are actually quite good at balancing. Strangely enough, they are representative of the other 99% (aside from tards who want the game to play how they want it, instead of playing the game as it was made). I was afraid they would balance SupCom to be an all-agressive, no-defensive, super-hyper-insane-rush game, but instead they helped GPG to balance it pretty evenly (aside from a few issues they weren't privvy to). And since CoH is already a super-hyper-aggressive game, it won't be as much of an issue. How could it be worse?
Ick. Both have their merits. On the one hand, I remember the state of DC balance - IG was perfect at the top level (so they say), but at anything less than 100% you'd lose. Necrons, on the other hand, didn't get any better from 40% up, so they were balanced at the top but not at the lower.
On the other hand, balancing based on high-level player opinion is better than a mass feedback since you're less likely to have "MY MARDER SUX WHY CANT IT ONESHOT JEEPS ALL THE TIME." and more likely to have "THROUGH COMPREHENSIVE TESTING, WE HAVE DISCOVERED THAT JEEPS DEFLECT MARDER SHOTS 50% OF THE TIME. /MONOCLE."
EDIT: Agree with TNT, realism can make for a kickass game. Red Orchestra stands as testament. However, Company of Heroes isn't the place for it.
Originally Posted by Wargrim
Hmm, never thought I would say this. Having played vCoH since day one. But I will not be getting OF on release, or for a couple of months if this release date is true.
I will wait till it gets cheap in a couple of months (maybe online play will be ready by then)... or maybe I just wont buy it at all. Shame, a real shame.
1) Red Orchestra isn't considered realistic by most accounts. While the tank combat is great, it's hardly a realistic simulation. There are games that provide realistic simulations, it is not one. Their (realistic simulations) player base is extremely small because of the lack of balance.
2) Define Games. COH designers have said COH was designed for 2v2 play. I don't care what anyone else says other than the designers. I don't care how other RTS games were balanced either.
3) They are very good at balancing but that doesn't change the fact that their skill level can and will create imbalances for players that play below their level. Again, SupCom is NOT COH. Stop comparing the two.
We can argue until we are blue in the face. If you are waiting for Relic to create a game that's completely balanced in 1v1, you'll be waiting forever. I'll be buying the game, I enjoy it.
Last edited by fldash; 12th Sep 07 at 12:06 PM.
I feel for the guys at Relic. I bet there's a lot of bad feeling there towards the marketing/financial peeps at THQ if (as UJ believes) it was a purely fiscal decision. I'd be feelng pretty hard done by as a coder working on the game. They know it's not finished, but their hand has been forced. Morale must be rock bottom. I notice none of the (usually very good) communication from Relic is present - probably not allowed until release now. Political stuff in companies sucks balls - I have to deal with it from day to day, and it's not pleasant in any guise.
Last edited by norfolknclue; 12th Sep 07 at 12:04 PM.
Bah, the game isn't ready any way you shake it. Thumbs down.
Realism is nice when you can get it to work. The most important part is that its nice if bigger guns do more damage then smaller guns. But even that basic rule arent followed in coh, so I think its safe to say that balance comes before reality in coh.
It isn't that bad, the game is playable once you actually get in (problem #1 is connectivity), but that still doesn't excuse either THQ or Relic for going Gold with what we have right now.
The player base for games like that is small because most people aren't in history like that and on top of that the games have a fairly steep learning curve. Balance is the job of the map/scenario maker.1) Red Orchestra isn't considered realistic by most accounts. While the tank combat is great, it's hardly a realistic simulation. There are games that provide realistic simulations, it is not one. Their (realistic simulations) player base is extremely small because of the lack of balance.
Realism can make for great gameplay but the game needs to be designed around it. CoH wasn't designed around it so while realism would certain help you can't really add realistic ranges and such because the engine isn't designed for it.
(On Topic) I don't think I will be getting CoH OF. I really don't like the new armies also my main army (Werhmacht) seems more or less broken for the time being but I can't imagine it getting fixed.
"Stormtroopers gave me the rank I have today." Omar
#77
I daresay the single player portition, the important part for the people who NEVER go online, is fine. In order to play online you have to download patches, and that herein lies the advantage.
From a buisness AND gameplay standpoint, there is nothing wrong with this. By the time release rolls around, a huge patch with all the beta fixes will be out and people will need to download it to play online.
I don't understand how you people can whine so much about the game going gold. You haven't even seen the single player portion.
You should check out Priority Vox Channel Secundus, a blog!
If you're going to do something, do it right. Releasing a game with as many known bugs as there are now might put THQ and Relic on par with several other game developers out there, but that doesn't make the practice of releasing a broken game and patching it after selling it any less wrong then it was before.
Coming from a non-hardcore player, I don't have a problem with them releasing the game as is. I haven't had the connection problems and haven't encountered any major bugs. I have been impressed by the stability and the almost daily patches that have been posted that improve the game. Their patching process seems pretty responsive to tweaking balance for the beta issues. I know it will slow down after the release, but they are more responsive than most others. Patching a new game is the norm these days. I have been waiting since June for a 2142 patch.
I will take the word of the "experts" that still claim there are horrendous balance issues. However, I will point out that noobs like me experience imbalance on a far more global scale based on skill level differences between the pros and casual players. I haven't found an imbalance that enables a casual player to beat up a pro on any regular basis. Fixing balance issues between the pros is "fine tuning" that can happen over time. I don't see that as being Relic's highest priority. Even then it seems pretty subjective. For every PE is OP, there is a corresponding British are OP. That in itself may be an indication that there's more balance than the zealots can see.
If i have learned anything from playing CoH i know that RELIC has been ironing out problems from day 1 of release. CoH: OF will be no different, of course there are going to be bugs and problems with the release of any game, thankfully Relic isnt like creative assembly who releases a game then throws it to the sands of time never to look at it again. By day 1 or 2 of release of CoH:OF im sure relic will have ironed out the multiplayer issues. If not, people who havent been beta testing can try out the two new factions its offers thru singleplayer and skirmish!!!! Dont panic people, relic is a top notch developer with a great team that caters to its customers. At least thats what i have believed so far. I look foward to an early release!! in the past it has scared me when games are pushed for release, but in the case of CoH: OF, i look encourage it!!
#81
Hi everyone, just responding to a couple things in the thread...
Yes we have indeed gone gold...
Yes there will be a 0-day patch and post product support as for all our games...
And yes Team Automatch will be included during a later patch. We ran into many connectivity problems with the beta that we needed to spend time fixing to make sure the online experience was working properly. We still want to do Team Automatch (I know I am looking forward to it the most) and will add it at a later time. Team Automatch is a priority for us over Observer mode so please be patient!
And yes Team Automatch will be included during a later patch. We ran into many connectivity problems with the beta that we needed to spend time fixing to make sure the online experience was working properly. We still want to do Team Automatch (I know I am looking forward to it the most) and will add it at a later time.
Thanks for the update, though. Now speculation can at least cool down a bit.
Allie, I'm disappointed you didn't give me the scoop earlier today when I talked to you about it! :P
apparently they're both op compared to the original factions.For every PE is OP, there is a corresponding British are OP
back on topic.
What I want to happen:
- OF is released on sept 24.
- The single player is bug free and fun to play.
- Btwn now and the release date, all of the development and balance team can work to release a patch to fix most multiplayer balance and online problems.
- A patch is released on or soon after release, making the entire game nice and polished.
What will likely happen:
- OF is released on sept 24.
- The single player is ok, but some bugs are still there due to rushed release.
- A simple patch that barely fixes anything is released around the release date. Since the game is now released, 90% of the manpower are diverted to other Relic projects, thus leaving only a handful of balance testers.
- We wait for months for the so-called "big balance patch". When that comes around it actually causes more issues (think back to the CoH patch history).
- We wait for another half a year before the game is finally somewhat balanced.
#85
Prove it to me. Have you played the single player game? do you know if there are bugs in it? bugs that havent already been fixed?If you're going to do something, do it right. Releasing a game with as many known bugs as there are now might put THQ and Relic on par with several other game developers out there, but that doesn't make the practice of releasing a broken game and patching it after selling it any less wrong then it was before.
No. I doubt you have.
READING COMPREHENSION FTW!
apparently they're both op compared to the original factions.
back on topic.
What I want to happen:
- OF is released on sept 24.
- The single player is bug free and fun to play.
- Btwn now and the release date, all of the development and balance team can work to release a patch to fix most multiplayer balance and online problems.
- A patch is released on or soon after release, making the entire game nice and polished.
What will likely happen:
- OF is released on sept 24.
- The single player is ok, but some bugs are still there due to rushed release.
- A simple patch that barely fixes anything is released around the release date. Since the game is now released, 90% of the manpower are diverted to other Relic projects, thus leaving only a handful of balance testers.
- We wait for months for the so-called "big balance patch". When that comes around it actually causes more issues (think back to the CoH patch history).
- We wait for another half a year before the game is finally somewhat balanced.
Sad but most likely true.
Please Relic, don't fuck this up.
Be quiet. He's speculating. Never trust a PR rep's word as that of God. I've been promised a lot of "0-day" patches that game out a week later.READING COMPREHENSION FTW!
when i was typing buggo hadn't posted yet.READING COMPREHENSION FTW!
anyway, i didn't say it wasn't going to happen. what i'm really afraid of is that the patch is going to be small and do almost nothing to balance.
Homeworld is getting a patch!?!?post product support as for all our games...
Until 'CoH: Into the Motherland' swats the balance pendulum again...- We wait for another half a year before the game is finally somewhat balanced.
#90
Point taken.when i was typing buggo hadn't posted yet.
anyway, i didn't say it wasn't going to happen. what i'm really afraid of is that the patch is going to be small and do almost nothing to balance.
The thing is you guys are so...paranoid. Every single little thing.
CoH got far more support than DC ever did. I would hope that Relic can get it right this time.
Hope....heh.
I believe in Relic.
Been in the OF Beta from beginning on and the balance is now quite perfect.
Although 1on1 is difficult for the old factions to win against the new, 2on2, 3on3 and 4on4 work perfect. Althoug arti is still too powerful and too cheap for the brits.
I think, going Gold was a good decision. Some balancing will be needed for sure after release, but the more people play, the better the feedback. No RTS is balanced from release on, so the have my faith to go....
When is release in germany ?
#92
Wow! There’s been a lot of talk about Opposing Front’s street date in September and the game being pushed out early. As the producer on Opposing Fronts, I wanted to come online let everyone know what's been happening.
The team at Relic wrapped up Opposing Fronts last Friday, and truth be told, it was a week late, the original schedule had us wrapping up on Aug 31st. The powers that be at THQ thought it would be a good idea to get the game out to everyone sooner rather than later, which honestly, makes a lot of sense.
Opposing Fronts definitely wasn’t rushed out to make a street date, we always knew we’d be done at the end of summer and it’s been our plan since day one.
Of course, when a game like COH has big online portion of the experience, that side of the game is almost never done. Relic Online is still working hard on the beta, fixing the connectivity bugs and there are patches going out all of the time. The Relic balance team and COH multiplayer team are working hard on game balance - which is a dark and mysterious art and one that is never finished (Who would have thought piospam would be a workable strategy?).
There are a lot of hardware combinations and strategies out there, and even with a stacked balance team and dozens of testers at THQ QA, we can't find all of the issues. This is why we run the beta – to find and fix bugs and balance problems. It hasn’t been a perfect beta, but it’s getting better every day. The community feedback on the beta is reviewed every day by our balance and online teams and is essential to making Opposing Fronts everything it can be.
#93
Thank you for letting us know, shane. That's somewhat good to hear. While a zero-day-patch is not the thing I want from a game (I wanna play it out of the box dammit), it's at least comforting to know there was no sudden rush that broke something, and that you are working on hammering out the remaining issues.
Congrats, and here's to the newest addition to Relic's glorious history!
Thanks Shane and Buggo, congratulations on going gold.
#95
Wow shane, its great that you have come online just to tell us thatThanks a lot!
#96
I am still pretty optimistic towards OF in the long run, but that rushed start means i will probably wait out the first patch(es) and buy the game the day after arranged automatch is finally there.
HA. I laughed pretty hard at that one. Anyways I'm a big fan of single player stuff, so as long as single player can keep me amused for as long as it takes relic to get its act together with balance bugs and the such, I'm fine with it.Quote:
post product support as for all our games...
Homeworld is getting a patch!?!?
Edit: Removed my previous edit due to a retarded question in my original edit. Probably the third edit?
Greyhounds are my favorite, still!
Fast panzer4! Coming soon, to a motorpool near you!
If you guys look at what they did with COH you should be afraid. A year later and there are still bugs and balance problems. Please be more cynical people.
Follow the facts of the history of coh. Hoping that they fix it won't get you anywhere, you might as well start praying to jesus.
Throwing money at these companies that continue to release games that are clearly not ready to be released is just stupid. Would you buy a car with no tires and doors on the hope that the company would give them to you later? If you are an idiot you might, but I sure won't. Maybe if you purchased from the company before and trust them, but again we wen't through this before with Coh numba 1. I will believe it when I see it.
The truly sad part is that you keep letting these companies take advantage of you because you keep buying incomplete games. Stop it already, just stop it.
What is really funny is that some of you think the bugs in the beta somehow won't be there in the single player. It's as if you think they are two separate games.
Out of all that we were promised from OF what have we seen in the beta? We have not seen team automatch which we were promised, we have not seen better vehicle AI, and they have yet to even balance vCOH.
Gaming companies are becoming the new politician. This isn't getting better, it's getting a whole lot worse.
Wow...I can't believe someone actually said "Please be MORE cynical"...
Overall I'm still happy that OF is coming out, because honestly I never have really let any balance issues totally piss me off for any game. CoH is one of my favorite games from day one, and still is....
To me this would be like Jesus himself handing you a free beer, and you saying "I would like it colder, in a glass, light, and I'd like to watch ESPN while I drink it"...you are given something pretty damn good, yet you still can't help but nitpick. Tell you what...feel free to go down to Relic, fire the development team and take over their work cause you obviously know far better then they.
Ok...I know we hate rants but I had to get that aside. Overall I've never personally had any real issues with CoH, balance or otherwise...yeah there are some things I'd like to see...Allies vs. Allies, new game modes, new units for Americans/Wehrmacht, etc....but overall I'm just stoked to get OF in the first place...
A game will NEVER be perfect for everyone...that's where patches and mods come into play.....if anyone ever finds ANYTHING in this world that's perfect, PLEASE lemme know cause I'd love to see it.
Besides, if (and this is a BIG IF) there are any game breaking bugs, I doubt THQ and Relic are going to let such a bug go totally unsolved cause that'd hurt sales....the occasional minor imbalance/bug? So what...it happens....play the damn game and enjoy the challenge of trying to figure out how to play the game with those problems. Like vehicle pathfinding...yeah the pathfinding kinda sucks in CoH...however I now rarely lose any armor because I've become pretty damn good at using that pathfinding to my advantage, and learn to work with it, not against it.
Overall, why do we all have to be so damn down on Relic...if anything, this is THQ's doing, not Relic's. If they release a piece of tripe, it'll reflect in the sales....however I will still bet you that even incomplete and buggy OF will still beat the pants off of most of the other games out there today.
I stopped reading after:
Some of us care about graphics, some of us care about single player, some about multiplayer. They should care about all of us out there and not just appeal to people like you, who don't care about the things we want. I agree it's a good game but to pay full price for an expansion with unbalanced armies is not my idea of a fun game.Overall I'm still happy that OF is coming out, because honestly I never have really let any balance issues totally piss me off for any game.
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