"Big Boy"

[Painmuffin]

I was thinking, after reading a post about a russian expansion, what will happen with the pacific expansion? There has been probably a lot of people wondering if the japanese/pacific theater will be added to the growing list of CoH games. Now I wonder will there be a nuclear bomb? I mean they did include the v1 rocket, germany's most "ballin" toy. I wonder if they could add the nuke. I think it would be OP, but it would still be very cool.

Imagine, after saving up 2000K manpower and 1000K munitions and maybe 150 fuel you get to unleash the most controversial/horrifying weapon ever created by man power. It would absolutely level an enemy's base, graphical effects like trees getting sucked in, then leveled to the ground. Siding ripping off houses and a huge white flash. It could be done someday, although it would be some pretty serious CPU power. Anyways It's definitely a part of WWII (being the end of it) It would be a cool realistic addition to the game.

Keeping it from OP would be its INSANE resource cost. Only one use per 20 minutes, making it 6 CP's (maybe like 10 for the whole doctrine tree) Making your units fighting effectiveness for a minute or so lessen (as the war ended basically when the bomb was dropped...) Making the bomber able to be shot down, the bomb WILL explode, b/c there hasn't been an American nuke that hasn't. Make it accurate to some degree (a.k.a not like the v1, flying off map and landing in an orphanage/house for the disabled). If the weather is cloudy or rainy either make the accuracy way less, or make it impossible to use it. (this would represent the fact that the bomber's couldn't see in bad weather). Either the resource expense or an absolute freezing of economy (like 20 MP per min, 5 fuel and 0 munitions)

So discuss, tear me apart I don't care. I'm PRETTY sure this hasn't been in a thread yet, so its an original idea!

[Noir]

The frightening thing is I can see this working if we did an Operation Olympic/Downfall "what if" CoH expansion.

[balanceofpower]

Oh for the love of Pete... Please don't give the pie-eyed developers at Relic any more ideas.

First of all, any use of atomic weapons in any future COH Pacific expansion would be even more out of place than the Pershing that CoH has now.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not used, to the best of my knowledge, against military targets, but instead against civilian installations. And they were used with the express idea of avoiding an invasion of the Japanese mainland.

Yes yes... before anyone comes with the "realism" vs. "gameplay" argument -- I acknowledge that my argument is based on "realism" -- but if we're going to sanction such an ability in a game, we might as well just sanction that the Japanese have the "Godzilla" tech tree while we're at it.

Say "NO" to Atomic Bombs in CoH.

I have spoken.

BoP

[Painmuffin]

No need to get flustered. I'm merely discussing what I think would be a cool idea. Who's to say that the v1 wasn't used against civilian targets? Who's to say that German artillery wasn't used against civilian targets? like wise with American/British artillery. Just because it wasn't used against a military target doesn't mean it should be forgotten and omitted. What about propaganda, mainly for civilian (and some military) use, but its a major part of Wehrmacht Terror.

[ZombieBunny]

As much as realism vs gameplay you might want to argue... there is no such thing as a "small" nuke. Even in a 1/10th form, it would still obliterate an entire 4v4 map.

[balanceofpower]

Not getting flustered ; ) Just expressing a pretty firm opinion that's all.

I just honestly think that atomic weapons would be thrown in for eye candy and could easily, not saying it will, throw things out of whack. Considering how inconsistant Relic is at balancing gameplay, I shudder to think what they'll do.

You don't have to agree with me, but that's my opinion. : )

[BoDyBaG2224]

OMG, why is there always a thread about that weapon when someone talks about a Russian Expansion.

2000K manpower and 1000K munitions and maybe 150 fuel

If you save up that much, you have lost the game.

[Flip_Lx]

wouldn't it just destroy the entire map and wipe your base as well, i mean with realism being all....

[B4_life]

not realistic. at all. (even less then V1s or any other retarded BS.) do you have any idea how powerful a nuke is? everyone and everything on the biggest of big maps would burn down.

[Busby]

Yea, using atomic weapons in CoH would turn the game into a draw, hell, even using strategic bombing would likely kill as much as you as your opponent.

[Pyro Paul]

yes, let us be realistic about this for a minute.


Since when have we Ever put the Key of a Nuclear armed weapon in the hands of a company commander whom is probably ranked no higher than an 1st Lt. ?

[Unchained5150]

Let the man be, he's having an "Outside of the box idea" unlike all of you. Yeah he said bash him, atleast he acknowledges the fact it was coming, but come on.

Yeah, if you wanna get all realistic then it wont work. But for all you people who marvel about the V1, and compare every aspect of your life to it, you should be happy when you launch it it even lands on the map. Stick that fact up your realism's ass.

Now, i forget the name of the poster but (name of poster) good idea, but it would kill your base too since everyone is wanting to be 100% realistic. However, what would be more bad ass is carpet bombing. Since Oh lordy, that actually happened. have a couple heavy bombers, 29s or 17s most likely and have em drop a few rows of bombs. That'd be cool

[Karius]

Just think that realism in games is a double edged sword...

[Virus Wince]

I agree with Karius. Reality is nice, but ofter people want too much reality and gameplay would suffer from that.

yes, let us be realistic about this for a minute.


Since when have we Ever put the Key of a Nuclear armed weapon in the hands of a company commander whom is probably ranked no higher than an 1st Lt. ?

Same day we gave V1 rockects?

[Catastrofizum]

Well done for bringing it up. I would have to agree with BalanceofPower though. This is not a realistic ww2 battlefield weapon. Was never used in battles, purely in the last gasp of the war to tame Japan. Gameplaywise, if it was used, anything less than total map anhiliation - including your own base - would not be sensible. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

I'm a little tired of the realism debate. Nothing about this game comes close to a real battlefield imo. But that's ok, it's a game!

Tanks that have a range of about 5 or 6 times their length??? Try about 200 - but that would probably mean they can target across the map..not fun. Ditto for just about every other unit on that front...

[E-Bass]

silly idea I'm afraid

[Rimsey]

LMFAO - I've heard some insane ideas for the game..... but this is absolutly got to take the biscuit.

Have you any idea how big the blast area of a nuke is? The weapon that would completely obliterate ALL of the map.

How cool would that be...... use the Nuke and then look at a big crater that used to be the map.

Your base(s) their base(s) ....... all gone.

I'm going to be walking around all day with a stupid grin on my face now and when people ask me what I'm smiling about I'm just going to have to say "You wouldn't believe me if I told you"



OMG just thought of a great idea to make me rich!!! Gonna create a game called "Nuke Em" ...... just engineers and a Nuke available. The one to build enough resource to get a Nuke wins!!!

Pros:
Simple to create the game
Cheap
Easy to play


OK its sounds silly - but judging on this post I'll make a fortune!

[haido]

Nuke the nuke!

[PzRSpeRRe]

<- Fan of non mass destruction warfare

[Falaris]

Assuming that you will have island to island fighting with naval battles in a Pacific expansion, AND with the resulting vast increase in scale, AND with japanese entrenchments ALA Iwo Jima, then nukes would be at least according to scale AND not hideously overpowered (they are not that useful against underground complexes - at least compared to above-ground complexes.

I would still suggest that nukes is NOT a good choice for a weapon, for several reasons.

1: Politics. (Yay. Let's use the most reviled weapon in history!).
2: This is not cruise missiles, this is long range bombers. It'd have an arrival time of several hours, game time, and using it required a presidential order.
3: Its use put the final nail in the coffin of the pacific WW2, and that was most certainly not in any of the known battles that would most likely be portrayed.
4: The implementation itself, as suggested, would be a reason for people to say 'why do I have an end-tree power that sucks this much?!?'. CoH isn't about static fighting, and this would be a power that, if you wanted to use it, would have you pushing for a stalemate until you could use it.
5: A weapon that basically nullifies everything both sides have done so far is a bit out of whack with good gamesmanship.
6: After the bombing of Nagasaki military command suggested conserving any new nukes for a more tactical use in an invasion of Japan rather than as weapons of terror. Still, they were never used in that role.
7: We allready have nukes that end the war, it's called disconnects.

I would rather suggest an end-tree power of carpet bombing, much like the King Tiger option - free, but one time only. Still not 100% good, but quite a bit better.


I've revisited Supreme Commander and I find it a much more fun game than I did at first. And it has plenty of nukes. Nuclear subs, strategic missiles, commander - launched nukes... lots of big boom boom weapons. I'd suggest that if you want your hands on that stuff.

[redeye84]

Nukes wont work... I hope ur aware how poweful an atomic bomb was... With 5KM radius. The whole game map will be wipe out.

[DANAOS_master]

Man, no offense but the bomb was nick named "Fat Boy". Nevertheless I find it a perfect idea that 'd give the game a whole new perspective. U wanna build defences and cut me off with your stupid engineers without fighting? Look at the sky for a little "present" that is coming at your base!

And to all guys that say that whole map should be obliterated and other realism-related notes: who told U that tanks shoot only that far as they do in the game?

Relic is able to fine tune the area of effect, but consider the perspective that is arising here: up to now there were 2 ways to win, first destroy your opponent, second keep the VPs long enough. This is a "capture-the-flag" or "complete-the-wonder" way that 'd favour a lot the game in general.

Just my 2 cents.

..and of course, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were NOT pure civilian targets. Hirosima alone had 40,000 soldiers.

[ÜberJumper]

Actually Danaos, the bomb's nicknames were Fat Man and Little Boy.

But yes, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not purely civilian targets, they were military production centers as well.

[Lurk]

Oi!
Nuklear weapons can be in the game, why not?
Just let them be launched from a catapult-like contraption that is carried around by your average Soldiers.
That would be so much fun and even NEXT-GEN.

Only drawbacks:
a: Gameplay goes to hell
and
b: Bethesda would sue the heck out of Relic & rabid Beth-Fanboys
all over the place

Nukes are neither funny nor next-gen & i am going back hiding
- happy gaming all.

[BlackOmne]

@Falaris,
Why does a Pacific expansion HAVE to include naval warfare? The island fighting can be handled without having to include models of ships or huge swathes of ocean. Naval gunfire support and carrier-based air-support can be represented just as it is now in CoH, abstractly for naval support like in the one campaign mission, and fly-overs for aircraft. Battles would feature only portions of islands at the same scale as CoH maps.

[Leobardis]

OMG just thought of a great idea to make me rich!!! Gonna create a game called "Nuke Em" ...... just engineers and a Nuke available. The one to build enough resource to get a Nuke wins!!!
Pros:
Simple to create the game
Cheap
Easy to play
OK its sounds silly - but judging on this post I'll make a fortune!

Done and Done:

DEFCON - Everybody Dies (Introversion Software)

[Sprinkles]

Since the bombs were sent to civilian targets. Make the ability just blow up outside the map and you hear this big "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSHHHH" (possibly mushroom cloud in distance) and your enemy's manpower income plumits for a hard while. Since there were only 2 limit it to one or two uses.

Hate to give actual ideas for pacific theater since im in for Russian/Winter in next expansion.

[Volkssturm_arg]

nuclear bomb in a COH ? forget it... won't happen... The only 2 bombs used in WW II resulted in 60 years of moral debate .... Allies could have Crushed Japan and there wasn't absolutley not a single reason to do what They did ...... won't happen never ever ever...


dude... the game doesn't say that the Stormtroopers are the SS, and you want a Nuclear bomb against Japan ?

[Tantalis]

well destroy the entire map meh how about the maps of every multiplayer game. Well anyway definitely wont work.

[Stokes52]

WTF? Nuclear bombs don't work from a historical, realism, gameplay, and moral standpoints, choose your argument.

History says they didn't exist during the time and play CoH is currently in.

Realistically they couldn't be employed by a company commander, and they would destroy the whole map. Nukes aren't a matter of which house I want to destroy on Semois, its a matter of do I want to destroy Semois and the surrounding countryside, and its surrounding villages, and make it uninhabitable for years to come?

For Gameplay it would kill the entire strategic element of CoH, especially in team games, because one player could do nothing but save resources till it is available.

As for the moral standpoint, a game which doesn't acknowledge the Waffen SS, and yet has the Waffen SS (Stormtroopers) in game doesn't seem likely to include a weapon that, (In WWII), was only used on Civilian populations.


This is company level squad-based combat tactics game where you fight over a farm, a village, a city subsection. You don't have a world map where you decide where to send entire divisions and where to bomb the enemy and... where to drop nukes.


Stokes out.