A New Appreciation of DOW

[L0ki]

***Personal Opinions follow not statements of fact***


Most of my gaming is *not* RTS. I tend to play more FPS'ers than RTS. That said, I have enjoyed RTS games over the years. I started with the original C&C wayyy back in the day and have played most of the C&C series over the years. (Anyone else think that that series went downhill after Yuris Revenge?)

My latest foray into RTS was with the long anticipated C&C3. All new game, all new engine.... Was expecting great things but was dissapointed. I knew when finishing the single player campaign that this one would go up on the shelf and perhaps never come off again escept if some mates at work wanted to do some LAN play.

I've also tried some of the other *new* RTS and found them lacking compared to DOW.

This realization has rekindled a my love for DOW. Just as background, I didn't know anyhting about the DOW world or backstory, having never been exposed to the minatures game. I saw the opening scene for DOW and was hooked.

I think that DOW has great graphics compared to some of the other current RTS's. The units in C&C3 were so small and all moved in sync so that to me it looked like the old "2D sprite" days.

I just find that DOW has so much more soul than the other choices out there, from the voice acting to the graphics and effects etc.

I've just been having a blast, playing on all the community developed content, especially the survival map packs! (BIG shout out to Argonaut and all the map developers).

I have bought all of the expansions and am looking forward to the latest whenever that hits, and can't imagine what DOW 2 will be like!

[Weasel Boy]

Glad you have enjoyed the series, but something to discuss might be nice…

Possibly you desire to hear peoples reasons for returning to DOW after periods of absence?

[KotCR]

Anyone else think that that series went downhill after Yuris Revenge?

We all do, friend. But C&C3 is an improvement over Generals at least, and it easily beats WC3. Not had much of a chance to play any of the more recent RTS' much though (SupCom, CoH, and whatnot).

[Zyxthior]

I'm right with you Loki.

My first RTS was the original "Warcraft: Humans & Orcs" for DOS. It was something completely new to me in terms of video games, and I was hooked--it was something new and different. I too am more of a an FPS gamer as well (logged FAR too many hours into the Battlefield series).

Dawn of War was one of those "suprise!" games for me. I have a Fileplanet account, and I joined up with the original DOW Beta out of boredom. After only playing for 15 minutes I knew I was going to buy this game as soon as it came out. i've never played the tabletop game or knew anything about the whole Warhammer 40k universe (other than Blizzard borrowed some of the concept for Starcraft--a GREAT game in its own right).

The original game was released in 2004, the graphics quite cutting edge for the time with the effects and unit detail. What I adored, and still adore, about the game is the individual unit animation...it just gave the game such "character". The gameplay was fun, and pretty damn balanced in my mind.

Winter Assault brought the Imperial Guard. Looked boring at first, but I've definately gained a new appreciation of them. Dark Crusade brought the shooty Tau and nasty Necrons, along with the Risk Style campaign (all good).

I think it's a great game and I tire of reading the whiners who say we need a DoW2 because the graphics now suck. Graphics don't mean everything...they're simply the Icing on the Cake. The Gameplay is the Cake. I find DoW's gameplay just completely enjoyable. Gameplay is what keeps me coming back to this game--it's mostly balanced (I actually only have one complaint). Without good Gameplay, great Graphics is meaningless. (i.e. Putting yummy creamy vanilla frosting on a cake made from cat turds will not help).

[KotCR]

Hehe, that last thing gave me a nasty taste in my mouth .

I agree, DoW graphics are fine for the time being. They don't need an improvement. The game already has it's fanbase, so it doesn't need any flashy graphics to attract a new one.

Go back and play some of the old classic RTS' like Red Alert and Total Annihilation, and despite their now poor graphics, they are still a total blast to play.

[nemarsde]

It was the original sp demo that got me hooked. I just don't enjoy RTS games, not one since Dune on the Amiga, but I love the W40K setting (nostalgia).

Anyway, I started the demo, got into that tutorial with the dry American voice-over and I was thinking how boring RTS games are. Then my Force Commander rushed into some Cultists and swatted them across the map with his Daemonhammer... It was love at first swat.

[MercZ]

Yes, DoW to me is probably the RTS I usually play the most with C&C3 following. The main catch that drew me to DoW though is the setting. I never heard of table-top prior to this, but DoW drew me into the universe (though it didn't convince me to get table-top). Mechanics were pretty nice too.

Unfortunately the game's beauty is marred with some of the balance issues and lack of love for the most part from Relic at times. I mean for the most part after the recent patch there's kind of been a blackout in terms of development. This isn't helped much when people get all fissy and go beat up on Buggo or who ever delivers the news.

And the issue with the engine is not the quality, that is fine. It's the issues the engine brings, like pathing (Yes, all RTS have this, but DoW's pathing simply is outrageous at times) and some of the other oddities (locking in sync-kills, the method of coding the engine, etc.) that occur because of it.

[GRIM Ripper]

i actually would say the graphics arent even really outdated in terms of quality... they have a unique style, and the thing that trumps all other rts's to date as far as i can recall is individual unit animation. characters are generally big and vibrant... there is a wide variety of unit scale (not all a bunch of tiny humanoid looking units that you cant even make out), and as mentioned before, the animations are varied and unique. sync kills alone add a tremendous amt of submersion into battles imo. granted, the game could use some terrain enhancements (better terrain effects, textures, etc), but model wise, i still think they're quite on par with current gen rts games.

its hard for me to play any rts now bc honestly i keep wishing it would be more like dow.

[cmstophe]

and it easily beats WC3

In your opinion, of course. I disagree, rather vehemently, I might add. I'd argue it if we were any other place but here.

[SandGoose]

For me?
Well, my grandfather introduced me to Warcraft 2, loved it from the start.
Jumped to other less known third party games.
To Warcraft 3.

Then this game shows up...
"Meh...average sci-fi rts, aliens space marines the like nothing really new."
Thats all I could really say until the X-Play review, "Zombie robots from the future? WTF?"
I bought it, didn't even have to try a demo, I know I'd like it.

If its one thing that sticks out in a game is the story, Warhammer doesn't fall short of that.
Warcraft is better than Warhammer Fantasy.
Warhammer 40k is better than Warcraft.

But thats just my opinion ;D
But for me, you can't really replace Warcraft.

[KopiKat]

I've always been a huge fan of the Warhammer 40K universe.

I about had an orgasm when I saw a dreadnought mangle some random fool for the first time.

-KK

[widowson]

I about had an orgasm when I saw a dreadnought mangle some random fool for the first time.

I don't think that particular neurosis has be categorized by the AMHA quite yet.....

[the_hunger]

Since buying DoW back in 2005, the only other RTS game that has captured my attention for any length of time has been Battle for Middle Earth 2. Most others (Rome, Medieval 2, Sup Com, Kohan, Company of Heroes, etc.) didn't impress me enough to go beyond the demos. I did buy C&C3, but have long since shelved it (but I hope the Kane expansion spurs my interest again). Mark of Chaos was a letdown because of lack of support, not potential.

As a matter of fact, I think that DoW+expansions have stayed on my hard drive longer than even Morrowind, which I dearly loved! I have to admit that the player-made maps and some good mods have a lot to do with my continuing high regard for DoW/DC, but even without these, it's just a game that's a cut above all other RTS games I've played.

[a1ph4riu5]

its hard for me to play any rts now bc honestly i keep wishing it would be more like dow.

I know exactly how you feel. Growing up with the C&C games, I was quite excited about C&C 3, but I tired of it within a few weeks and now I'm back to playing Dark Crusade again. C&C 3 is fun enough, it's just that DoW has raised the bar in what I expect from an RTS game. The whole resource gathering and uncapped spamming of units from multiple production buildings seems very outdated.

[Jaimas]

I am the world's biggest C&C Generals: Zero Hour whore. Of all the RTS games I own, it's the game I keep going back to after some other game pisses me off for some reason for the umpteenth time. It seems like no matter how crappy I feel, it's the one game me and all my friends always have installed.

I liked C&C3 but many things about it seemed stupid to me, and the ridiculous graphic requirements didn't sit well with me either. It was reasonably balanced (though far from as good as Generals in its heyday), but didn't seem to have that same depth of utility that so many of its predecessors did.

Well, not until recent patches, at any rate. XP

Didn't like WC3, and COH's setting in WWII was an immediate off-setter even though I liked the game.

DOW is a good game, whose only real failing is that it has suffered from chronic neglect throughout the WA/DC era, which is what caused the absolutely ludicrous balance issues it has now. Should Soulstorm finally redeem the series, it will doubtlessly have the same fond place on my Hard Drive that C&C Generals does.

[iaguz]

Dawn of War will hold a special place in my heart. When I learnt that another 40k game was being made, i originally had very bleak thoughts. All Games Workshop games had a tendancy to suck shite (with the exception of Chaos Gate, which was actually kinda fun), although i planned to get this for the fun of it. It's 40k, it has orks in it, it's probably worth getting.

I first played the beta at a mates place, said mate is another 40k fan, and that pretty much blew me away. The animations were spectacular, the dialogue perfect (and in the case of the orks and chaos, hilarious) the graphics amazing, and don't get me started on the intro.

I got the game around when it came out, and spent many a joyful hour playing it. Unfortunately, the lack of balance support and the hideous lack of love for the Imperial Gaurd (especially once DC rolled around. If you fought Necrons or Eldar, it was pretty much GG already) eventually drove me away, and i found a new home.

Company of Heroes. Now, im not here to tout up CoH, but it's fucking amazing and any real fan of Relic and/or DoW should at least try out Company of Heroes. It takes pretty much everything DoW did and makes it about a hundred times cooler. Basic gameplay mechanics such as resources, territory taking, squads, in battle tactics and atmosphere (especially dialogue. hearing 'Jesus Konrad, tie your fucking laces' still makes me giggle). It's also been patched this millenium.

I'm excited about Soulstorm, and i do hope that it refreshes that love i have for chainsword to the face action, intensive micromanagement shitefests, and so on. I also hope my wonderful Guard become the 8 ft tall Imperial supermen they were meant to always be.

[KotCR]

I tried the demo to CoH (man does it push my system to the limits, I can run C&C3 on mostly high settings but not CoH!), not actually got the game...but yeah the reason I wasn't more excited about it was the bland WW2 setting which has been done to death already, and I think most people are pretty fed up with it.

That, and the fact they act like the Americans won the war single-handedly again...which ticks me off being British, of course. Seems silly that Britain take a second place to America, considering we were in the war since the start, and the lack of the Russians for a WW2 RTS seems a bit silly also (why add a second German side in the expansion instead of the Russians, who played a huge role? If they wanted the one ally, one axis, side thing, they could have put Italy or Japan or something in instead, probably would have been more interesting).

Anyway, CoH chatter aside...some of the older Games Workshop games weren't that bad. I used to love playing Space Crusade on the old Amiga, and Final Liberation was also pretty good and the campaign was alot of fun (even if some of the unit stats were wonky...Ork tanks having more armour than a Land Raider? WTF?).

Final Liberation is still installed on my PC right now, and I play it every so often. Would probably install and play Chaos Gate too, except that it seems to have serious problems running in XP.

[Scrobes]

Hey I installed Chaos Gate the other day too, and am having the same problems running it on XP. The audio on the game menus seems to jump and glitch a little, but the game seems to run okay. The only thing was on the first mission it crashed to desktop on the enemy's first turn. I've forgotten all the knowledge needed to play anyway, but ahhh.. was nice to experience it a little again.

You know what.. I'm really surprised nothing like this has been released these days in a newer style. Maybe that's what the Squad Command or whatever it is, is going to be on the PSP? I know *nothing* about it. Or maybe that type of format doesn't really suit the playerbase now with games like DoW. But handpicking marines, and their eq is a really nice touch. I used to play Space Hulk on the Amiga too. That was too much fun.

Talking about appreciation, I'm actually playing through the DoW campaign properly for the first time, and while I liked the metamap of DC, this story driven style is a refreshing change. Probably helps I'm reading the Heresy books right now too, as there's some scary similarity between the two. If, when a new DoW style game is made they can combine elements of the metamap with a story driven campaign, they'd be onto a winner. Presumably that's quite tricky with so many races.

It's probably because I'm a pretty methodical and defensive player at heart, but each mission is taking me about an hour on average to complete. I think it was mission 7 that I took an hour and a half to finish. But I don't care at all. I take my time and enjoy the experience. I'm really enjoying the old rules in DoW, compared to DC 1.2. Uncapped predators/whirlwinds/terminators is a right laugh. The simplicity of it is refreshing. Fights between a squad of assault marines and howling banshess becomes more visceral than I am used to. Great stuff! After this I'll have another stab at the WA campaign before resuming my shenanigans in the DC metamap missions DoWXP-style.

I d/led the demo of C&C3, and it just didn't capture me. Like someone said, the characters and such are quite small, indistinct? The cutscenes were the best part. I have Supreme Commander too but the scale of it leaves you listing. That was more like a lesson in economics and manufacturing than an RTS. :o It has some nice twists with what you can do with order stacking, ferrying, but too complex. The only thing that caught my attention for a while was CoH, which is just a lovely looking game. The gameplay is juuuust a bit below DoW, but it can be fun. The AI in it can be a real nightmare. :\ Trouble is.. I'm sort of all WW2'd out at the moment.

[Verruna]

C&C3 was a major letdown... it seems like it has a huge community for some reason unknown.

DoW, DC, SC:BW, AoE3 for lyf3

[KotCR]

C&C3 has a huge community because it is fun and isn't complicated. Sometimes people don't want over-complicated micro-intensive battles. Personally, I have DoW for that.

I'm telling you now, playing DoW is more stressful than playing C&C3. Just as fun, but more stressful.

I'd agree it holds your attention longer though; I've certainly been playing it long enough.

[Bigamo]

DoW isnt a deep game anymore... it was at the good times

[Jaimas]

Aye... I remember during DOW's heyday, that at any given time, I'd probably be playing it. Likely as Chaos and likely having a complete blast. When WA hit, me and my friends stuck with it, primarily because we thought due to the massive community outcry over what had been done with certain races, that it would be fixed at some point.

God, how wrong we were.

In DC, we kept the faith up until 1.2. That's when the bulk of my usual team in the game said "Fuck it," and quit.

Soulstorm admittedly has their interests, and the new company involved is one that has a history of good balance decisions, so here's to hoping that with the new developer, we can look forward to our besieged franchise getting a new lease on life. It's earned it, I feel.