Death Guard WIP: Pandemic (updated Jan 21 - fully painted Obliterator unit)

[Winterdyne]

The metals are far too clean. A couple of mud and black washes should sort it out - especially in defining the barrels.

I'd be tempted to use washes to provide some shading to give definition to the armour / flesh boundaries, which at the moment to my eye seemindistinct.

[Svartmetall]

posting from work

"The metals are far too clean..."

Remember I have yet to do the rust; and multiple washes are part of that process.

[battledaemon]

Well that sounds tedious.

Anyway, I can't say I'm a fan of the scheme. The colours are boring but that's neither here nor there. Now although I don't like it I have to say that the quality is brilliant! Good work.

[Svartmetall]

posting from work

"I can't say I'm a fan of the scheme...I don't like it..."

Fair enough. Buried way back in the bowels of this threadnought is the discussion that took place when I first unveiled the colour scheme I was going for. I'm very much aiming for a realistic look, something that resembles a credible and coherent fighting unit; I think with Chaos Space Marines that people sometimes get so carried away with the Chaos that they forget about the Marines part.

The Death Guard to me personify the idea of dogged, disciplined ranks of advancing infantry, and I wanted the colours of my Death Guard to reflect that very earthy military heritage and atmosphere - particularly on Terminators, where the armour itself is a big feature (since it's harder for Chaos to get their hands on Terminator armour) and so I was really focused on 'keeping it real'. Now I look at some of the individual shots of these guys from work, though, I suspect Winterdyne may well have a point about adding a wash or two to the armour for a little more variety and contrast. I'll experiment when I get home tonight, if nothing else at least adding washes isn't massively time-consuming.

"Well that sounds tedious"

My rust method is detailed in Nurgle 101; it is pretty laborious and time-consuming, but produces what I think is a very nice rust effect.

I'm going to focus on the Plague Marines of Squad Pestis and Dreadnought Vvornth for a couple of days now, anyway, so I'll have another look at Terminator Squad Plaguewielder with a genuinely fresh pair of eyes towards the end of the week and see if the fleshy parts if them could use a little bringing up or whatever.

Anyway, I appreciate any and all feedback since - as I've said before - I'm always trying to improve in whatever I'm doing.

[misterjustin]

Thanks for posting the group shots. It's nice to see a large chunk of them painted together. I actually like your vision for Death Guard and think you've hit it reasonably well. Keep workin' on 'em as they just keep getting better.

[Master222]

Nah I never really was a fan of plague painting shemes. You did a nice job painting all of those guy's but... er... that's just not my style

But I'm always a huge fan of your sculpts, and conversions hell of a nice job there. My girlfriend also likes them even thou she doesn't really like anything space marine related

Hope to see both the hole army painted as you wish it to look, and some new cool conversions

[Winterdyne]

Don't go over the top - the wash type I mean are very direct, spot washes just to accent a single line or crease - not the commonly used 'splosh wash'! Look for streaking/weathering techniques used on armour modelling - these work well with citadel washes.

[Svartmetall]

A question I forgot to ask last night - do people generally base every model in an army in the same way, or vary it between different units and types of units? I'm wondering whether I should base the Plague Marines to match the Terminators, or do them with different bases to mark them out more as a different type of unit...


EDIT FROM WORK: I was doing some work on Chosen Squad 'Anthraxus' this afternoon, and may have hit upon a nice way to do shading on their armour with the washes; I'll experiment with this on the Terminators. Anthraxus' armour is lighter, so the shading tends to be more obvious, but we'll see; I'd like to get them finished too so I can concentrate purely on Vvornth and Squad Pestis.

I'm already noticing that 7 models in a batch to be painted feels far less intimidating as a workload than 14

[Winterdyne]

I'm basing all mine identically and making a big army display tray out of an Ikea picture frame.

[Sir Clausel]

I also base all my army the same way. Sometimes for characters I do a little something more. Like ad a head or big stone to the base, to make him stand out.

[Svartmetall]

That's kind of how I was leaning myself, but wanted to get a second opinion or two. Cheers for the feedback guys; I'm now off to Warhammer World for the afternoon to continue with the paint-a-thon...hoping to get most if not all of the remaining work on Anthraxus done today.

[Fod]

I love the terminators!!
They look disgusting.... Nice JOB!!!!!
That is how I picture Nurgle to look like!
And remember there is no "right" or "wrong" when you are making Nurgle... You can do anything with chaos mate,

[Winterdyne]

Got to see some of these in the flesh (such as it is) today. Damn, that GS work is very very nice. :-) And the washes really help the metals... Mighty fine work.

[Tythus]

Those are pretty damn amazing!

[Svartmetall]

And now, Chosen Squad 'Anthraxus':



Individual shots:






Like the Terminators, the rust isn't done yet, but I think I'm pretty much there with everything else. The overall colour scheme for these was always a few stops lighter then the Terminators, so the contrast and shading shows a little better on these guys; I'm particularly enjoying seeing the standard-bearer guy painted up since he was only the second model I ever put together.

Before anyone asks: I don't know what it is, but my camera will not take decent shots against a white background, it just won't do it. I have driven myself crazy trying to do it, tried over and over and over again but it just won't do it; the light will not balance out right no matter what I do so I can't do white backgrounds in photos.

*wipes sweat from brow*

Right, now I have to get Dreadnought Vvornth and Squad Pestis painted up...


As always, C&C welcomed.

[Fith Knight]

Well, Squad Anthraxus (love the name, by the way) is a beautiful bunch.

I especially like the bulky guy with the trophy spike & Lascannon. Nice models, nice paintjobs.

If I'm going to criticize anything at all, it would be the face of the little guy (individual shot #6). In my opinion, it doesn't contrast enough with his armor. But that's just my opinion, mind you.

Overall though, I really like them, and look forward to seeing more.

[Exetus]

I'm in agreement that the lascannon guy is the heat. Each of the models is fantastic, but I liked him the best with his bulk, trophy spike and jawed helmet. The only thing I can think of in response to this army as it comes together is EXTERMINATUS!!! because they look unstoppable. Keep up the great work, Svart!

[Avatar 720]

Horray for Stumpy! The little plague marine that could is now the little plague marine that can!

[Svartmetall]

"...In my opinion, (the face of the little guy) doesn't contrast enough with his armor..."

I know what you mean - all I can say is, it does stand out more in the flesh .


"...love the name, by the way..."

Heh, I've been having far too much fun (it's the roleplayer in me) naming all the squads and their Champions & individual members - I've already started working on some fiction involving Pandemic, so I need to have everyone's names established so I know who I'm dealing with.

The named squads so far are:

Terminator Squad 'Plaguewielder'
Chosen Squad 'Anthraxus'
POssessed Squad 'Gýrshth'
Plague Marine Squads 'Pestis', 'Virulis' and 'Necris'
Chaos Marine Squad 'Forlorn'
Chaos Havoc Squad 'Plaguehammer'

...I'm planning on writing a sort of anti-Gaunt's Ghosts, following the exploits of the bad guys as they wage the Long War.

[verybad]

I think perhaps adding some different colors (eg yellow and red to exposed sores, glowing eyes, bone to horns, etc) would reduce the monotony of green, while you obviously have a color for you army, it's just too much green and doesn't do credit to the incredible modeling. The painting is well done, but the inescapable green makes it lose interest.

[Svartmetall]

Hmm...the horns do all have bone on them, though; maybe it's not clear from the pictures?

Anyway, I have a dumb noob question about basing - I'm trying to work out what to do with Squad Pestis, there seems to be two ways to do basing and I've never really known which is the right one:
1) Put the basing material on first, then glue the model on top and spray the whole thing black.
2) Glue the model to the base, then after it's sprayed black, add the basing material.

Method 1 means the basing material gets sprayed black too, and I've been using the slate's natural colour as part of the finished look. Method 2, however, means the model looks like it's sunk into the base somewhat and it also makes it very hard to get even coverage of the basing material between the model's legs.

Any ideas? Although I'm starting to think method 1 may be the better way, I'm not sure which really is the right way to do this.
With the Terminators, I'd already glued them to the bases for spraying purposes so when it came time to base them I ended up breaking them off their bases and re-gluing them back once the basing was painted; I really don't want to be doing that with a squad with as much leg conversion work as Pestis, though, since there's a high risk of something snapping. For metal models with the slotted bases, though, I can't see a way to do it other than method 2...

All basing advice welcomed...

[SilverTabby]

I always stick the figure to the base, then glue on the basing materials, then spray. It helps the basing materials stay on during gameplay. Plus I always paint the basing stuff, mostly as the stones I use are bright blue and pink

Verybad has a point. All the colours are very similar in tone, which means even though they are different colours, they all end up blending in. It's not a bad thing, but can make the details vanish at a distance and your details are fantastic. It was why I suggested a deep red in the shading, and a 'spot colour' that is totally different.

Please note - this is not saying they look bad. I think they look very nurgley

[Tinweasel]

@ Svartmetall - For someone as plainly creative as you, I'm shaking my head in slight disbelief as to your basing dilemma. It's not really a major dilemma, though, as you have at least three (probably many more) solutions you could maybe choose from:

1) You could glue them to their bases along with the basing material, cover the basing material with something like painter's masking tape to prevent it from being sprayed, and then spray the whole thing.

2) You could glue them to their bases and spray them, and apply the basing material afterwards. I rather prefer this as I find that the glue takes a long time to dry with the basing material I use, so invariably if I apply it first and then prime, it starts to come off in clumps with a light coat of primer. In your case, I'm assuming you're having a hard time getting even coverage of the basing material between the model's legs because you're using slate - what you could do is break some of it up into extra-small chunks and use these smaller pieces between the feet, or alternatively find some extra-fine neutral-colored gravel and mix some in with your basing material and then use more of the gravel between the feet than slate. (I also prefer the gluing, spraying, then basing because it allows me to build up the basing material slightly around the feet so my figures look like they've got some "weight" to them, but then again I generally use cornmeal and/or "ant dirt" whereas you're using slate.)

3) Elevate the figures slightly when you glue them to their bases. (See the 1mm or so between the figure and the base?) This will solve your problem of slotted tab metal models nicely and give you room to work the basing material beneath. And if there's not enough tab to get sufficient fastening, that's why they invented bits o' sprue!


As to the figures, they look very good. I can see the difference between the different areas of color. That being said, I cut 'n' pasted a few of your pics and did some color balancing and some histogram adjusting on my end and they look like they definitely need more...

Actually, just keep on with what you're doing so you can get them finished at the current good standard and take pictures of them all just like you've been doing, so when all's said and done you can use the pics as reference and add what I'm thinking would be one more simple step. 8^)

[Winterdyne]

Spraying the basing material along with everything else is the easiest way, but you can lose natural tones (like slate). The simple answer is 'learn to paint slate'.

I use the following recipe -
Prime black.
Very heavy wet brushing of Shadow Grey / black mix. Allow to dry
Heavy drybrush, bit more shadow grey. Repeat a few times adding shadow grey.
Add vallejo pale grey (fortress grey is close) to the mix. Quite light drybrushes.

It's smoothest to go through about 10 tones, but it's actually pretty quick as you're just adding paint to an existing mix on the palette. On a small scale it's one of the few times where I'll drybrush off a wet palette, if doing a lot of models or a large area, just mix up a larger amount of paint.

[Svartmetall]

"learn to paint slate"

Right, but then they won't match what I've already done, and the bases all have to match or they'll look weird. Adding basing material then spraying would be impossible, therefore, unless I try and mask all the basing material off like Tinweasel suggests, which would be fiddly as hell. I'd certainly consider doing what you suggest in the future, but right now I have to think very carefully about this since I have to get the bases to match what's already been done.


"I'm shaking my head in slight disbelief as to your basing dilemma"

Because basing is completely counter-intuitive to me, and I concentrate so much on the model that to me basing feels - currently, anyway - very much like something I have to add at the end after the interesting bit is done. I think bases should be very simple and plain, because the model should be the focus of the conversion and the overall piece; after all, when you see a Plague Marine are you focusing on the leprous 8-foot killing machine or the bit of grass under his size 25 boots? I just can't find it in me to find bases as interesting as a miniature, to me basing was always 'the bit you have to do at the end' rather than any integral or particularly compelling part of the overall process.

Also, I've put so much time and effort into the conversion that I don't want to cock up the paint job or the finished mini by doing it wrong, even with a simple basing scheme. From what you're saying, I could maybe add 1mm spacers of plastic card under the model's feet, glue and spray, then add the basing material after the spraying (and drybrushing on the model, which could well get paint on the basing too). Argh! You see what I mean? To me, this is a dilemma, and the clock is ticking for me in terms of when I have to get everything painted up and finished. I can't afford to do it the wrong way, mess it up and have to re-do everything and start again, which is why I'm so concerned with doing it right the first time round. Remember this is still my first ever army, and this is all new to me.

I'm thinking the spacers-under-the-feet way may be the best, but since I slated up a bunch of bases last night I'm going to have to use another lot...argh. Anything involving painting & basing seems to take 10x as long with me as it should need to; sculpting and converting is very fast and natural, but all this that I'm dealing with now feels like ice-skating uphill. I'm really hoping the painting side of things gets faster and starts to feel easier with time...

[Tinweasel]

If you already slated up some bases and don't want to have 'em go completely to waste, maybe use a reasonable sized drill bit, eat through the slate at appropriate spots, and then use some cut-down sprue/plasticard to build up again sufficiently so that the feet sit flush and melted to the plastic when all's said and done. Either that, or (easier yet) just drill a pin of paperclip or something into both feet on one end and then into the base on the other - bending the paperclip over (if even possible) under the base for durability is up to you, as would be a GS/superglue combo underneath for rock-solid mounting.

I'm kinda like you in that I generally don't get concerned about the basing other than the fact that I need to have something there. I consider it part of the painting process in that a decently colored base will help set off/contrast the painting of the rest of the figure. With maybe 4-5 exceptions, I've generally done the basing on all my figures to somewhat of an "army" standard, which is theoretically how I've approached the vast majority of my figures initially - cat litter and corn meal. These Orks I've recently started, I wanted to do ruined urban basing from the outset so I intentionally glued them all slightly elevated from the base so as to allow for chunks of stone and stuff, and the Chaos Sorceror I posted above was one of the "exceptions."

I think the big difference between my basing and your basing is that I always intend to paint over my basing, whereas you've got a good thing going with your slate and it's kinda important it stays relatively realistic-colored. (I liked your one finished base I've seen and it goes well with your guys, so I'd say stick with it!)

I'm really hoping the painting side of things gets faster and starts to feel easier with time...

Odds are very good. Even using very "simple" techniques, like drybrushing, your guys so far look pretty darned solid!

[Svartmetall]

Well, I just cut out plasticard spacers for all their feet and now have them stuck on to their bases, will just now go outside & spray them. Thanks for all the advice and feedback, anyway, people - it's all being taken on board as I try to fumble my way through this weird 'painting' thing and figure out how it works...

One thing occurred to me with the painting and various people saying some of them are too much one colour or whatever - the Terminators and the Chosen all had the basic colur schemes done a long time ago, and I've been sort of working around what was already on them. With newer minis like Morsh-Hâl, Quorthon etc, I think the paint schemes do have a lot more innate contrast and variety between flesh and armour; compare something like Quorthon to one of the earlier Terminators:



There's definitely more contrast and variety of colours, while still keeping it within the overall palette I want; I'm hoping this means I'm slowly (painfully slowly) improving at the painting side of things. Squad Pestis will again be completely new paint jobs, so I should be able to take things a step further with them. Hopefully.

[Winterdyne]

Another thing you could try is liquid mask (maskol or similar). This stuff is ace, and can be applied very precisely. The downside is you have to use cellulose thinners to clean it off brushes, which is nasty stuff. If you like I'll bring some along to whw on wednesday and you can give it a try?

[Svartmetall]

Thanks for the offer, but I won't actually be at WHW this Wednesday - I only get every other Wednesday night off
I'll see how the spacers-under-the-feet method pans out first, I suspect.

[Energizer Bunny]

They look good. The Sorc in particular is coming together nicely, because (and I hate to keep banging the same old drum) he has a bit of colour contrast to highlight the amazing detail in the actual model.

Your metals (not sure if they're finished or not) look way too clean for me. Considering how corroded the rest of these guy are having them packing pristine weaponary looks a little odd.

As for anything else, I might have mentioned this in a previous comment, but you could try painting flesh in a regular flesh colour with some future models and just paint the sores in that kind of mottled green.

I like the bases.

[Svartmetall]

posting from work

"...because he has a bit of colour contrast to highlight the amazing detail in the actual model"

Thanks, and you're absolutely right. Quorthon is one of the most recent full paint jobs (as in, not inheriting half a paint job from many months back as happened with the Terminators and Chosen) I've done, and I'm hoping that means my painting is heading in the right direction overall. I got all of Squad Pestis attached and primed today, and their detail is still nice and sharp; I'm going to be going out of my way to emphasise the sculpting work on them with the paint job.

I always like seeing models primed since that's when I get to see everything the same colour for the first time, and they're looking promising - all the sculpting work seems to be blending in pretty much as I'd planned with the original models' detail. As for the metals, none of the rusting has been done yet; I'll be doing all that at the end as my rust method involves several stages of mixed colours and I want to keep the colours consistent.


"...you could try painting flesh in a regular flesh colour with some future models and just paint the sores in that kind of mottled green"

I thought a lot about what these guys' flesh tone should be before committing paint to model. I can't see 10,000 years of service to the Lord Of Decay leaving anything like a normal flesh tone; I could see someone who's only recently turned to Father Nurgle still having something like a normal human skin colour, albeit covered in sores (yay for Cannibal Corpse references ), but not these veterans. I will be trying different flesh colours on the Mark-of-Nurgle Chaos Marines that will be part of the army, though...I'm doing concept sketches* for those now, and they'll probably be the next things in Pandemic to get worked on after the current batch is done and dusted.





* SilverTabby's told me I'm not allowed to call them 'crappy' concept sketches any more...

[Sheep]

I really like Quorthon.

Actually he reminds me of the flood from halo.

But the head is a fantastic conversion idea!

[Svartmetall]

posting from work

But the head is a fantastic conversion idea!

Thanks, but be aware that the triple-head itself is a standard part off the Spawn sprue - my part in it was just to replace the upper-right head with a skull and add scraps of rotting flesh clinging to it with GS.

[Svartmetall]

posting from work

Armour drybrushing all done, and based:



...obviously very early days yet, but Squad 'Pestis' are starting to show promise even now, I think

[Fod]

They look great!!
The bases are Lookin Stylish!!

[Svartmetall]

Just to give an idea of how I'm approaching these guys, here's how two of them look now:



All the extra Nurgly bits I've added with GS will be painted in varying (greenish & tumorous) flesh tones, which should make it all stand out a lot more from the armour; previously I'd only ever done obviously-attached-to-the-body parts as flesh, with any Nurgly bits I'd added to armour just staying the same colours as the armour itself. Since contrast, or the lack of it, has been a major issue here so far, I'm hoping this will give the overall model a lot more variety and contrast once it's done; between the armour, the varied flesh and the guts, there should be enough contrast to satisfy anyone The only problem is that it takes hours to do one coat on the fleshy bits on even one model, although I guess that's my own stupid fault for making them so damn detailed in the first place...running out of hours in the day very fast, though.

All feedback welcomed, since I really want to nail the paint job on these guys - I want to make the best damn Plague Marines I possibly can, and while I know I've given it my best on the green-stuffing front I want to make sure the painting side of things doesn't let them down.

[Svartmetall]

[Commissar_Jalil]

OH GOD.... YEEESSSS! (mini-gasm)

This is the beauty that was hiding underneath the monotone. Just painting those GS bits a different color really brought your models to life. Whats best is that, IMO, you lose nothing of the nurglieness that you strove so hard to achieve in your GS work. On the contrary, i feel that it accentuates it, sets it apart from default armor, shows that it was meticulously crafted, rather than dropping it in with the rest of the model.

*clap* wonderfully done svart, can't wait to see more in this trend. Well done, sir!

[Svartmetall]

posting from work

Thanks; that's with just a coat of Rotting Flesh over the Gretchin Green I use as a skin basecoat, so I'm reasonably encouraged that I'm heading in the right direction and that once I've added the highlights, inks & washes I used on the flesh of Jaws etc it'll look pretty good. The flesh looks very one-dimensional at the moment, obviously, but even so I think this could well be the way to go; all feedback still welcomed of course, I'd be interested to hear thoughts & suggestions from anyone at this stage. Bloody painstaking, though, with all that layered surface detail - it took 2 hours just to do the coat of Rotting Flesh on Gothmog (or Plague Champion Kharzhâl, to give him his proper name)...

*wibble*

[SilverTabby]

My two pence:
Just be careful that using the washes doesn't blend those differing colours all back into each other again... I'd suggest trying to keep each colour having at least one unique wash on it to keep them different - for example, say, green over all, but brown wash on the armour, red wash on the guts and something else on the rotten bits.

Still, looking good so far

[Svartmetall]

posting from work

I'd suggest trying to keep each colour having at least one unique wash on it to keep them different - for example, say, green over all, but brown wash on the armour, red wash on the guts and something else on the rotten bits.

A good idea, I'd not actually thought of consciously separating out the wash colours like that although I knew I didn't want to lose the contrast I've been so painstakingly building up. What I'd been looking at was yellow ink + purple wash on guts, green with a little brown and a hint of red (since it worked well on Jaws) on the flesh, and brown & black washes on armour.

[BDJV]

Outstanding work, mate!

[Atritas]

I read the whole thread from the beginning (okay, well, looked at all the images and did some reading...) and when I finally reached the last page I went "NOOOOO!".

So, needless to say, I want moar.

Just so my post isn't really useless though, here are some things that I noticed...

I don't remember if I'm talking about the right mini here, but the Chaos Lord (or was it the Dread?) has a pretty plain back armor plate that sort of stuck out from the rest of the mini. I'm guessing there's no coming back to that though.

I could say that the metal parts look bad, but we all know that you are yet to do the rusting on them, so I'll hold my judgement.

And now for the sugar part:

Those are one of the, no wait, THE greatest Nurgle minis I have EVER seen in my entire life! Your attention to detail and your creativity are just mind-boggling. My favorite's the Dread, the bigger the mini, the better it looks when you "Nurglify" it imo. And to think you're doing a whole army of those... Surely it will be one of the most impressive Wh40k armies ever made.

I saw you thinking about doing Typhus or Mortarion... I think you'd certainly do them justice, even go beyond that. Typhus and Mortarion themselves would feel no shame joining such an army.

In short, keep up the disgusting (yet undeniably awesome) work!

[Svartmetall]

Erm...*blush*...thanks

And here's all of Squad Pestis with the contrasting fleshtone work done:


That's actually the last of the big time-consuming coats on these guys done, now it's all highlighting & metals and so on, which will hopefully be a lot less daunting as there won't be any more 2-3 hour individual stages.


I'll now be away until late Xmas Day doing the family thing (I think my brain will melt if I touch a paintbrush again today, so tonight's after-work hours are reserved for a cold beer & Warhammer Online); so it just remains to me to wish you all a festering festive season, and I'll be back soon

[[MaGiC]]

I like the contrast dude

looks way better

[Kerrigan]

Really really loved going through the twenty(!) pages of your beautiful creations!

[Galorn2]

Nice so far Svart now to shade those fleshy bits (if not done I recommend the new washes in this case Devlan mud)

All in all very very nice.

[Dante]

Spent a decent amount going through this...very impressive GS work and this will be a impressive army on the tabletop and in the display case when it is done.

[Tinweasel]

And here's all of Squad Pestis with the contrasting fleshtone work done...

Now for the metallics, I'd imagine. And then, what I was holding off on suggesting before for the sake of consistency: I'd recommend a medium-liquidity wash of 1:1 Red Gore/Chaos Black (metals and all) at roughly 1:8 paint/thinner consistency from the halfway point of where light is shining on the figures brushed downwards - you definitely want some sort of flow improver in your thinner mixture, like maybe a drop of dishwashing liquid (fairy liquid?) in the amount of 5-10% or so - what's that, 1 drop of liquid dish soap for every 15-20 of water? If you go with a professional "flow improver" (Winsor & Newton, et al) I believe they usually suggest a ratio of 10%-20%.

I'd then suggest 1:1 Camo Green/Chaos Black at 1:4 paint/thinner consistency painted directly into the non-light-facing shaded areas from lightest to darkest.


Needs moar contrast!!11!1 (But not at the expense of putting in so much work that you never get these guys done...)

[Svartmetall]

...not at the expense of putting in so much work that you never get these guys done...

That's kind of an issue, I have to get these guys all done by Jan 15th; and, starting the day after tomorrow, the <multiple expletives deleted> who currently employ me will be forcing me to work 50-hour weeks (for at least a month), meaning I have even less time to work on getting these guys finished up. Hence the panic I had a while back and why I've been working so hard on them up till now, I wanted to get as much done as possible before the grinding nightmare of 10.5-hour work days starts. God knows how I'm going to get the Dreadnought done in time.