[DC1.2]The Ultimate Community Necron Changes Thread - UPDATED 26th November 2007

[ChienAboyeur]

No, I didn't build nothing but banshees. I had warlocked guardians backing them up. I didn't have the economy to build reapers, despite the fact I had all but the 3 points around the necron's base capped. See, when you are playing as Eldar, you really have to make a choice...it's either banshees or reapers...not both. If you try building both, it's suicide. Your tech and economy get slowed down considerably.

Three points leaves to much flexibility to a necron player. He can march to the opponent's base and keeps a cap margin to prevent an attack on his base.
Competiting for the SP points allocated to the necron is the must be done in tiers one.

Later fire dragons and an eldar tank dedicated to back stabbing into the necron when the necron decides to march can warrant that the necron player has to fight to maintain his flexibility.

[Sabin76]

So you're saying that in order to beat a Nec player, all you have to do is only allow him 2 points..........
......
..........

...........
You do know that many maps have at least 3 easily accessable point right next to every start location, right? How, exactly do you propose that people contest points right next to the Nec base, and actually have the resources to do so.

[ChienAboyeur]

Two is already too much in tiers one. It leaves the necron player with too much flexibility to answer any threat provided by other armies in tiers one.
Beating a necron requires to hit him constantly on the obelisks to reduce the flexibility and leaving him with inadequate troops on the field.

Necrons are supposed to be unstoppable when marching. In the game, they are.

[fuggles]

Necrons don't have any inadequate troops!

You can't honestly be advocating that you have to stop the necrons getting 2 points? On an average map where the points are in your base, a turret build would see that your T1 inf can't get near the LP's. Plus owing to the builder/capper combo of the scarab they cap quicker than any other race, and for cheaper!

[The_Guardman]

They're not quicker.

[fuggles]

Quicker as in your builder unit is a)built b)already there.

[ChienAboyeur]

There is obviously a map issue as I already told it: maps with one point behind the base which forces to enter the base to prevent capping and building on it.

When the points are outer sided, scarabs get killed if capping plus building.

When marching, necrons are unstoppable. Backstabbing them on their obelisks can force a recall as they will lose all their flexibility.

[Makaris]

It is NOT a problem with the maps, because basically every map in the entire game has the whole "three easy points" system, and it works pretty okay with every race in the game with the exception of necrons. Problem lies with them, not the maps (not that the maps don't have a few issues of their own).

Shameless theorycraft's gotta stop.

[ChienAboyeur]

Is the shameless theorycraft's urge to stop addressed to me?

If so, please quote the extract where I speak about the "whole three easy points" system.

If you are unable to do, I hope you know what you are left with.

[Makaris]

You mentioned that it was a problem with the maps that most of them have several points (usually three) close to the base.

It isn't a problem with the maps though; it's a problem with the necrons.

[Troubleshooter]

The only way its a map problem is if you make every map asymetrical (sp?) with Necrons on the weak side. Since thats not the case and never will be, its fundamentally a race design problem, either Necons have to great an advantage, or other races have not enough advantage.

[ChienAboyeur]

You mentioned that it was a problem with the maps that most of them have several points (usually three) close to the base.

It isn't a problem with the maps though; it's a problem with the necrons.

Please provide a quote and tell what point I addressed.

If not, you know what you are left with.

The only way its a map problem is if you make every map asymetrical (sp?) with Necrons on the weak side. Since thats not the case and never will be, its fundamentally a race design problem, either Necons have to great an advantage, or other races have not enough advantage.

This implies that necrons and every other armies are symmetrical in regards of LPs.
In an eco/eco match up, armies are indeed symmetrical in regard to SPs/LPs.

In a necron/... match, armies are not symmetrical in regard to LPs.

[Makaris]

Dude, that's what you SAID!

There is obviously a map issue as I already told it: maps with one point behind the base which forces to enter the base to prevent capping and building on it.

Despite the brokenness of the above sentence, I figure what your saying is that it's the map's fault attacking a players inner points is imba in regards to the necrons...

When the points are outer sided, scarabs get killed if capping plus building.

When marching, necrons are unstoppable. Backstabbing them on their obelisks can force a recall as they will lose all their flexibility.

Here, I believe you imply that maps that force the necron to actually take map control (ie: maps with less than 3 or so points within easy reach) put necrons on worse footing, which is true... but irrelavent when most maps follow the design of having points close to the players bases. Issue is with the necrons, not the nature of 90% of the maps.

[ChienAboyeur]

You should work your mastery of the english language: a good mastery in a language always reflects into the ability of understanding broken versions.

This said, I absolutely not meant that.

I answered the point that on many maps, points close to the necron base can be challenged at the start, delaying the necron from capping them and LPing them (the only thing that matters for them)

Maps which renders this very difficult if not impossible is maps with a SP at the back of the base or maps with SPs located in a dead end.

[Makaris]

Rather than asking me to work on my ability comprehend your poorly worded arguements... why not cut out the middle man and make them more understandable? Reads like something going through babblefish.

Unless you absolutely-not-meant the above post, either.

Point stands. Pointing the blame for something regarding the necrons on the maps is silly and doesn't get us anywhere. If you agree with that, then there isn't really anything to discuss regarding that any further.

[Troubleshooter]

[ImmortalChaos]

I absolutely not know what is going on here.

I do know, however, that necrons imbalance has little to do with maps- Even in maps that put all but 1 point in very contested locations (Emp's Valley) necrons get easy mapcontrol and still dominate.

[ChienAboyeur]

Slightly off topic, but it is not about level of thought. It is about broken versions of a language.

And the mastery of a language reflects into the ability of understanding broken versions of a language.
It is not an opinion, it is knowledge as anyone can find out when asking a linguists involved in archeology who faces unstandardized versions of the language.
Linguists working on writings directly from the sources have to be skilled in the said language.

Anytime a native speaker (from any language) underlines the language shortcomings of a non native speaker, he underlines by the same way his own lack in his native language. In clear, the message is "Hey mate, you are not skilled in my language but myself I am not that skilled in my own"

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Declaring all maps equivalent for necrons in regards of LPs is a hard move. Some maps have untouchable LPs. Others leave LPs to attacks. Since a loss of one obelisk directly decreases the efficiency of the necron army currently on the field, maps can not be considered the same.

[redScare]

So you're saying that, as one race out of 9 (with the incoming SS) benefits far more than the other 8 from having SPs near their starting location, then the maps are at fault.

I don't need to be a native-English speaker (I'm Spanish) to see that your argument is quite poorly based.

I'd like to see more interesting maps too, with more cover, negative-cover and contested points. But that has nothing to do with the necron issue.

IMHO necrons should be able to do just well with 3SP... but should be defeated if the other player gets ALL the other SPs. If the necron with just 3 points, denied full map control to the other player, just by decapping points, then it should be OK. We'd have an unique race that does not need map control and can do well with just a few SPs, but that gets defeated if they don't manage to deny the other player from gaining total map control.

Right now necron with 3SPs >> enemy with ALL other SPs. That's not balanced. And it's not a map issue. It's a race design problem.

[Makaris]

Let's not take this arguement too far into the realm of language, and I aplogize for the derail. I mistook his stance, figuring he was defending necrons with what seemed like a weak arguement when instead he was simply pointing out an actuality. I disagree that misunderstandings are, in this case, on the fault of the misunderstander, but whatever.

[The Boz]

Slightly off topic, but it is not about level of thought. It is about broken versions of a language.

And the mastery of a language reflects into the ability of understanding broken versions of a language.
It is not an opinion, it is knowledge as anyone can find out when asking a linguists involved in archeology who faces unstandardized versions of the language.
Linguists working on writings directly from the sources have to be skilled in the said language.

Anytime a native speaker (from any language) underlines the language shortcomings of a non native speaker, he underlines by the same way his own lack in his native language. In clear, the message is "Hey mate, you are not skilled in my language but myself I am not that skilled in my own"

Sure, agreed.
But I don't see a tag in Makaris' profile saying he's native language is english.
Nor do I know him to be a linguist.
Nor do I know of any law that states people must be able to read other people's posts regardless of their chaotic nature, but are not required to post in a comprehensible way. And it doesn't make sense.

The board uses the english language. If anyone, it is YOU who the burden of actually KNOWING the language falls upon, if you wish to communicate through this board.

[Jaimas]

People, focus. Fuggin' Necrons.

The necronomy is a broken concept. That's pretty much all there is to it, I feel, and there are many people who agree with this theory; there are many replays now in which a Necron Player does not need to expand beyond his starting LPs.

Does anyone disagree with the statement that Necrons seldom need map control beyond their starting Listening Posts? If so, why?

[Troubleshooter]

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...79#post2687679

Heres my latest lab of Rap spamming Nex on short maps. Summary, I was wrong... Nex can break out of the build with the 99% turret alone. FO not needed.

[dtitov]

Wraith and FO.

Strongly disagree. Chaos will not let you get to tier 2 with HB walls or raps->CL. You will get SLAUGHTERED, especially compound with other changes (NW's costing money etc.)


Sure the raps->CL can be defended against but due to the light of other changes you will not be able to expand after you defend you home LP's (raps will slaughter you in the open especially coupled with CL and NL is now not so scary at all with LF fixed) and if you can not expand you can not eco boom can not eco boom can not get T2 while being pressured by raps and or zerks while chaos probably fast teches to PSM which puts a nail into the coffin.




and to SP 'fixes'. I mainly use it to assault ork bases. How do you intend to take down that banner farm supported with a few other buildings ? Immortals ? Funny that. That would make orks base unharassable(full out attack? may be but certainly not harass) till necrons get Hvy Destroyers which is just ridiculous. and in the open field situation gets even worse now as wraiths die to sluggas (as wriaths are less numerous now and build even longer(no lp time decrease) and sluggas reinforce) NOBS (since banners and other points are even harder to harass and melee for necron goes mostly into tier 2 you bet ork will get early nobs)



In short i think choas and ork will walk all over necrons with this changes...as if chaos didn't have an easy time already :S.



Good changes. *sarcasm*





That said i agree with eco change. probably the limited gens tied to Lp option as a better one.

[The_Guardman]

That would make orks base unharassable(full out attack? may be but certainly not harass)

Harassing ork bases without battering ram units (walkers, IG vehicle spam) is something no one do anyway, unless you're truly quick at it...

[killer-ra]

How do you intend to take down that banner farm supported with a few other buildings ? Immortals ? Funny that.

What exactly is funny about two full squads of Immortals, firing from behind three squads of disrupto Warriors, a squad of Flayers, a handful of Wraiths, and the Lord. Sorry if I'm daft, but I just don't see what you're implying there.

[dtitov]

You are clearly not reading. I was talking aqbout not ever getting to tier two because of the banner being non harassable with this changes so no FO. The reason you will not get to tier two is you will get slaughtered by sluggas and nobs (and ork will have nobs earlier since he can spam banners even easier now, what with no FO's and SP to stop him. )

and to quote Guradman:
Harassing ork bases without battering ram units (walkers, IG vehicle spam) is something no one do anyway, unless you're truly quick at it...


So now it is even more impossible to harass ork on top of overall nerf. And funy enough everyone is fine with that....heh. Anyone sees a problem here ? Honestly how do these changes make Necron/Ork match up any fairer ? Just to add to this it has been said by many top necron players that Ork are the hardest matchup for nec anyway. So yeah, apart from eco solution i think the rest of the changes are unwarranted.

[killer-ra]

Ah ok, please forgive the misunderstanding; I thought your post was only about the SP, not the OP as a whole. (I've been playing poker for the last six hours. brain = fried)

I agree that moving FO to T2 is anti-imba overkill. I feel that their fear aura, on the other hand, should be a T2 ability learned at the Summoning Core, and even then the morale dps needs a nerf. Perhaps make it a Disruption Field type of ability, that increases damage, and adds the fear aura. T1 FO, minus the omg aura, and with a damage nerf until T2, are solid melee troops.

[The_Guardman]

Why do not put morale immunity and aura at T2.5, in the greater summoning core? So, it at least will have a reason to exist beside being a tech-needed building (you can obtain nearly the same thing adding a research or an add-on instead of it atm).

[Dakaar]

What exactly is funny about two full squads of Immortals, firing from behind three squads of disrupto Warriors, a squad of Flayers, a handful of Wraiths, and the Lord. Sorry if I'm daft, but I just don't see what you're implying there.

Ill tell you whats funny here, thats 24 pop cap of melee units and a lord needed from your description to be able to attack an ork banner farm (no mention of ork units), thats if a handful of wraiths is 3.

(3x2 immortals, 3x3 warriors, 1x3 flayed, 3x2 wraiths = 24)

Im not saying that ork v necron is imba before any one flames, just that you description of how a necron needs to attack a banner farm is.

[White_Pointer]

and to SP 'fixes'. I mainly use it to assault ork bases. How do you intend to take down that banner farm supported with a few other buildings ?

You'll be surprised how resilient Necron units are to ork building guns. Even without solar pulse I've had banner farms ripped apart by FO's and upgraded NW's by themselves.

And really, all you need is a phase-shifted NL or Wraith to run in there first and draw all the fire and then move the rest of your troops in. It forces the ork to manually specify the banner's target to fire on which is a pain in the arse when you're trying to stop your units from dying.

White_Pointer

[dtitov]

Well, i am arguing how this is to be done with changes suggested, and with suggested changes wraith will die (not T2 yet), and NL with phase shift = very few warriors (remember you suggest they cost oney now + money to reinforce) add to that the fact that your gens are easier to take down and Necron will never be able to take down any massive clumps of ork shooty buildings.


Anyway what i am saying Necrons need a reliable melee unit just like any other race(zerks, shees, kroot etc...) and Wraiths ain't it. They are good - yes, but they are situational. you can not answer slugga, zerk, assault marines etc. with wraiths (or in better case denied any expansion and with need to get those lp's with the changes you are proposing just as well toast).
And going by the changes wriaths are also getting a slight nerf. All in all getting to T2 for necrons becomes more difficult with little pay off for what have been nerfed.


As was suggested fear aura for FO as a research is a good idea. If Wraiths are still staying like you suggested then may be a slight walking speed increase would be good too coupled with HP nerf (they are FAT for T1 unit), so then later in T2 you research fear + HP (to what now), may be as separate upgrades, Hp may be even spread to T2.5 (although then initial speed of Fo might need to be a little more).

[ImmortalChaos]

Well, I did suggest making FOs come in T1.5 with no DS, 12-14 move speed (they had 10 before) and HP that remained equal to NWs with the D-feild upgrades.
In T2 they would get access to DS, @ 2 slots per monolith.

So, all kinds of buffs and nerfs- In T1.5 they are far weaker (~500 HP and they used to have ~700) but they scale into ~600 HP along with warriors with your disruption feild upgrade.

Now, at the same time, they get an absolutely huge nerf at the hands of a DS loss- This would keep them from being so fecking mobile for a supposedly slow melee unit. To compensate they would move considerably faster than before, right out of the box, so that they wouldnt just be getting raped every time they closed in melee.

Then, in T2, they get their DS back, but only 2 spots an HQ! They have pretty much become the disgusting, rediculously mobile, rediculously tough, high damage, morale aura unit that we know and love (to hate). However, if the necron player feels the need to spam more than 2 FO squads, simultainious DS becomes impossible- He will need another monolith if he plans to be DSing FO squads in every direction.

Now that their mobility is limited, we can give them the 2nd D-feild in T2.5, so that they scale into T3 with the 1k HP of warriors.


IMO, this has pretty much the same effect as just bumping them back into T2 (which I dont like) but also keeps then in early teirs for variety, as well as effectively making them a scaling unit that has effectiveness in every teir. Building ectra monoliths will have a new goodie too, as you could DS all 6 possible FO squads with 3 monos, and by then they'd likely be sporting 1k HP each.

[The_Guardman]

Now that we are half at it, what about the fact that Immortals cannot teleport back to base as the other 2 Necron's infantries? I think that they deserve it, and it would be not a big buff. With a nerf on necrocnomy it may as well be needed.

[ImmortalChaos]

Well, IMO, they'd need a nerf to their 80 DPS each to vehicles before they get any more mobile.

[killer-ra]

I'll happily trade a damage nerf for teleport, move speed of 15, and 100 Hp each.

As they are, on medium to large maps, getting them to the front lines for some quickly needed AV is impossible, until 2.5 when a Spyder can collect bodies and birth them, which is something I'm against using in the first place.

EDIT: I'd like them to have stats comparable to Chaos Horrors, minus the Deep-Strike of course.

[ImmortalChaos]

Damage nerf for teleport, mabey, damage nerf for teleport, speed increase, and HP increase? Nothx.

[killer-ra]

Yeah I got greedy, huh?

AV low damage nerf, just for teleport or move speed, would be a good enough deal.

[ImmortalChaos]

Yeah, not a bad change- Though IMO not as important as something like the FO suggesiton I made.

[dtitov]

I like your suggestion Immortal, So far that's the best one i've heard.


On the other note. If we are indeed FIXING necrons not just nerfing them, any idea jpw top Fix rez orb ? Right now it's damn useless. And please don;t tell me how you saw that guy use it in 1.2


Sure somebody always will, at some point in time. I mean however have you ever seen it used by good players in t1.2 to some meaningfull impact, not as a I WIN MORE schtick

I like the Rez orb change in DowPro, but there it works due to pylon that pretty much restores all the 30% health troops to good health fairly quick unless totally overwherelmed.


The problem as it stands right now in 1.2 If you use Rez orb right now it just clutters your pop cap with troops that have a survivability of Guargdsmen squad (less so if you take upgraded guardsmen) while having the usual drawbacks of necron troops. Which is to say you clutter your popr cap with troops that die in seconds in a fight but take some serious time to regenerate to any meaningful amout of health. Whcih much nullifies any use of Orb right now besides some nooby game or SUPER dragged out (and most likely semi to just nooby) team games.


Hell, as it stands right now you are better off just recuclying them with Tomb Spider. You will get able troops faster that way(and they get a benefit of being iside a transport....at least that's how i see a tomb spider filled with bodies that pops behind enemy lines or behind enemy base and produced a squad or two of immortals or FO).



What i think could be changed is may be maming Orb a passive aura that for a little time grants a bigger WBB roll to troops in certain area (but enough so that one would actually notice, and that it would have impact...once again DowPro comes to mind. There i actually see necrons come back up whereas in t1.2 i only really notice it with wriaths)



Another thing ath bothers me is that NL can not attack troops to him like say BM (even though in TT he can). I suggest taking away the slow artifact, limit NL teleportation to one use and make it a research instead of the slow, to compensate for that. Oh and of course make Necron player to re-research upgrades in Forbidden Archive ala Tau Commander if NL dies. That way archive has some uses to Necron besides build->get upgrades->sell. That can also fix other issues like people bemoaning Veil of Darkness if you make it so that NL artifacts only affect attached squads (which is pretty much the case in TT)


...i dunno thought. People hate NL even more then FO so any kind changes apart from straight nerfs are usually unappreciated. Personally i just really want to see him directly leading a quad like he is supposed ot.

[The_Guardman]

What i think could be changed is may be maming Orb a passive aura that for a little time grants a bigger WBB roll to troops in certain area

It already do it. 24 range, +25% to ress chance. In addition to the mass ress ability.

And you feel it. Ever if the NW return up with "only" 250 Hp Heavy_Med (MORE than a fully upgraded IG, and comparable to a priested fully upgraded IG), this also mean a flat 55% chance of having a NW, FO, Immortal or wraith ressed and working as 2-6 second ablative shield for their fellows, also helping in get more time to reinforce, and sparing some requisition when winning.

The Ressurection Orb is not bad at all, it is simply overshadowed by the stupidly powerful others: Phylactery, Solar Pulse, Phase Shifter, Veil of Darkness or Lightning Field. Ever Nightmare Shroud and and Phase Shifter are more useful, while require a (very little) more microing than the others by being more specific in usage.
Only the Chronometron see less use.

The thing more wrong with the NL wargears is the fact that they are subdivide in tier, IMHO. It would be better to have them all available at start, with increasing scaling cost (like, -to say- first cost 100, second 300 third 1000, no matter which one you pick first) and power magnitude scaling slightly trough tiers.

[ImmortalChaos]

What i think could be changed is may be maming Orb a passive aura that for a little time grants a bigger WBB roll to troops in certain area

It already does that, by 25%(!) I think.

As for its non passive effect, IMO it should be able to go to the 24 cap (doesnt seem like it does currently) and always produce 4 squads- 4 bodies = 4 squads of 1, 3 bodies = horrid waste of a useage.

Instead of ressing every member at 30% HP, it should have a defined ammount of HP- say, 3000, that it would give to each squad. If you only rezzed 4 corpses, you'd get 4 squads of 1 at 1000 HP each. If you rezzed 16 corpses, you'd get 4 squads of 4 with a total of 3000 HP between them

The exact numbers (4 squads, 3000 HP) would obviously have to be tweaked, but it seems a lot better than the current one which I find very hard to get good results again and again-
I have seen it dominate games in 1.2, with the NL poping in and using rez orb, then either VoD, NS or SP to make the enemies stop shooting, and laughing as they got mowed by a huge ammount of necrons.
I have also, however, seen it used on a huge pilse of bodies, only to have
1) nothing actually get up
or 2) A lot gets up, but goes back down in seconds to mass enemy fire.

[dtitov]

While your comments hav the math correct, there's one thing to say....i have yet to see anyone 1500...even 1400+ player use it to any good effect. And neither had i. Reason you use rez orb is because you need the troops NOW. if you have time to nurture them to reasonable health you are either winning or better off using TS.

I agree Phase shifter is super useful, especially early tiers, i use it myself a lot but right now Orb is as good as not being there for a tier 3 artifact. Feel free to prove me wrong with a replay of 1400+ players where Orb made a difference and wasn't an I WIN MORE toy (On the other hand as a necron player i've seen a lot of replays of my race, and just seing one where Orb is chosen much less used i will have to sift through my archive of replays for a while)



Immortal: it would be a good idea if you could choose how many necrons you can raise again but fixed amount of hp doesn't look like a much better idea since reasing necs after a big battle would provide about the same result as fixed precentage health if i understand your suggestion (i might not it's a bit confusing).





PS: Basicaly what i am saying for a tier 3 artifact, Tomb Spider does a much better job then Orb and requires no research or anything. Personally i just use TS i can afford it (time and pressure wise)

[ImmortalChaos]

The orb is actually T2.5, same as for spyders.

And chances are, no one even tries to use it in auto- phylac/lightening/phase shift is far too good to pass up, or perhaps phylac/solar pulse/lightning.

IMO, there should be a visual effect showing how far away the res orbs ability to increase ressing is.

[White_Pointer]

The difference between Res Orb and Tomb Spyders though is that res orb is instant. Bang, heaps of troops alive again. When using Tomb Spyders you need to wait until enough corpses are gathered before spawning new squads, and you can only spawn small squads one at a time.

White_Pointer

[dtitov]

Troops that INSTANTLY are useless...and the time it takes for them to regen is about the time it would take for TS to pop full ones.

[ImmortalChaos]

Well I find that currently TS wont make whole squads out of a bundle of corpses, so you can reinforce to full quicker than regenning.

IMO the only time you'll really notice that the rezzed crons dont have much HP, is when the enemies army is standing on top of them when they are ressed.

[Apathetic]

Troops that INSTANTLY are useless...and the time it takes for them to regen is about the time it would take for TS to pop full ones.

Beg to differ. The functionality of rez orb is definitely situational, but unless your opponent is willing to babysit your fallen army's corpses you can simply port in after they're gone and rez the lot of them exactly where they fell.

This becomes problematic when the other player kills off multiple necron squads in his own base. FO spam, anyone? Or how about the March of Death you (somehow) managed to stop on your doorstep? All those corpses littered out there a stone's throw away? Yeah, have fun squatting those - or just leave them and watch the NL skip back over and rez the whole lot of them, completely circumventing the "slow" necron build times and movement speed.

The Ressurection Orb is not bad at all, it is simply overshadowed by the stupidly powerful others: Phylactery, Solar Pulse, Phase Shifter, Veil of Darkness or Lightning Field. Ever Nightmare Shroud and and Phase Shifter are more useful, while require a (very little) more microing than the others by being more specific in usage.
Only the Chronometron see less use.

Guardsmen already said it best - the reason no one uses rez orb at higher levels of play is that they don't need to. They have - as you so accurately pointed out - bigger better imba to exploit such that they rarely find themselves in a situation where rez orb is warranted. That does not mean the ability does not also need fixing.

[dtitov]

Nec FO spams and lives till late tier 3 ? You gotta be kidding me. This works vs 1100- score opponents or may be IG (but that is not so much a problem with necs as a problem with IG). To elaborate this FO 'spam' rez only works if other player does not know the race he is playing much and/or necrons as well. A SM, CSM, Eldar, Ork and even IG (at this tier) would have no problem dealing with rezzed FO's in their base given that they indeed know what they are doing and they are above 1100+. It's a fact. The only race i see having a problem with a bunch of almost dead FO's is Tau and once again i see this more as a problem with Tau balancing rathe then crons. FO's do piss poor damage to anything but building-low. If someone did that to me i'd just go and rape necrons base and thank them for a free win. Since necron would not be able to produce anything much (their cap is filled with rezzed FO since they were FO spamming. who now do not have their teleportation active for a while yet and you know their walking speed)



Now this is adressing your statemnt as is. I predict you will say something to the effect that it's not just FO's that will be there or that there are other things to consider. Well i would counter that already that right now you mentioned nothing about other opponent and most likely he is not just sitting there watching himself getting killed, but actually suing some of his own race T3 advantages to press on necrons tupid enough to fill his pop cap with half dead FO's.



Anyway to sum up. I've yet to expiriecnce use of Orb where it was anything but useless to harmful to necron in the long run. If the battle dragged onto T3+ Necrons are hard pressed as is(they are at disadvantage late tiers to other races but that is a whole new discussion....if you wish to debate that), and rezzing up a solid chunk of pop cap of something that will rarely have any impact on the currently going battle will be a final nail into necrons coffin.



Another issue is slowing down artifact is damn near useless. I propose replace it with teleportation as a research but make Nl allow to attach a squad.

[ImmortalChaos]

Or, you know, you could buff chronometron.

I'd say increase its recharge time, and make the slow effect much more drastic at T2. This would make it somewhat like chains and demo shout, but hopefully not as abuseable.

Another possibility would be to make it target friendly units and increase their walk speed and rate of fire.