M12 - Thaddis Sabbah
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#1
M12 - Thaddis Sabbah
This was a looong, but not really terribly difficult mission, provided you micromanage a lot. Destroyers and battlecruisers will approach you in groups, but as long as you can throw bombers at them to take out engines and missiles and use frigates' superior mobility to get them pointing off in the wrong directions, you should be fine.
I came into the mission with a few sensor distortion probes, which I promptly dispatched to light up the resource patches-- station them a distance above the patches of course, so they don't get destroyed by the enemy, you're just using them to keep track of the enemy.
Note that a destroyer and several frigates will come straight from the upper right resource patch to your mothership. If you set up your minelayers to cover slightly on the right side and detail some interceptors to wipe out their fighter cover when they start out, you shouldn't have a problem.
I must have played this mission 30x before I finally figured it out how to beat this sucker.
I came into with 2 BCs, the Dread, 14 bombers, 12 gunships and no frigs or destroyers. Now then, at the get go, I had my MS and Shipyard build Destroyers and my 4 carriers build frigs.
I sent my corvettes and bombers immediately after the right most shipyard. If you do this quickly you can knock out with few losses. Just make sure the gunships are hitting the fighters trying to take out the bombers.
After the shipyard is destroyed, and most of your bombers are gone, high tail those gunships back to your main fleet. What I learned throughout these trials is that you MUST HAVE anti-bomber support or your ships will fall incredibly fast. Don't build Flak or Torp frigs though. Go all Ion and bring in the gunships. Kepp your carriers pumping Ions and Bombers, set them at 10-15 a piece so that they can replace losses quickly.
The mission doesn't get hard until all the BCs show up. Basically you have to use your bombers to knock out First, the missile platform, then the engines. The trinity cannon is strong but those missiles are just as devestating in numbers.
When it gets really hairy, pause it. Tell your frigs and Destroyers to attack Destroyers and below, your bombers to knock out BC subsystems and your corvettes to constantly hunt down fighters. Your BCs and Dread should do nothing but hit other BCs and they have to be on the front lines or your frig and destroyer lines will get decimated.
If you make it to the middle shipyard, use your bombers to knock out the capital ship subystem then, as circumstances allow, get your BCs to knock it out. By now anywhere from 6-10 BCs will show up and you have to use bombers to hit those subsytems. Keep pumping out Ion Frigs and Bombers and the occasional gunship (they aren't targeted very often). Platforms are nice too.
Once the second shipyard is gone it's pretty much downhill. Secure the base where Soban is at and get the marine frig to him. Note: the base does build fighters so keep an eye on it.
Knock out the third shipyard and Flagship then. BCs will come occasionally but you'll be able to handle them.
Don't be surprised if you're overwhelmed and losing a lot of ships, concentrate on the biggest threats one at a time and take out their firepower. Keep the Mothership protected from the flanking Destroyers and frigs that come after about 10 minutes. Also, keep moving construction capable ships up with your fleet to reinforce. Set everything on aggresive.
I know there's no order to any of this but that's how it was in the game. Good luck!
Well, I got stuck on this mission. It took me a few tries, but I got to the stage where I wiped out most of the enemy, save for a couple of shipyards that can no longer build anything. But I can't figure out how to capture the station. Every time I try, I get "target disabled" and nothing happens. I did damage it like it says you should, and now I can't figure out how to finish the mission. How do you resque captain soban? Help anyone?
Last edited by m0rpheyus; 26th Sep 03 at 5:43 PM.
this is your most important strategic mission. you must prepare your fleet before the next mission. In order to do this defeat everything except makaan's flagship - leave him strictly alone, even going so far as to isolate all combat vessels far from the enemy mothership.
don't worry about salvaging wreckage (you'll get it in the "resources collected")...your main priority after defeating almost everything is to build up a huge force of bombers, gunships and ion cannon frigs along with destroyers and BCs.
I had to do this mission twice. the first time i approached past the second resource op. bad idea! Only approach to the first enemy resource op (the one with the platforms.) There just camp and defend against successive waves, only afterwards do you start going bombers/gunships/ionfrigs.
My strategy up till this level was interceptors/pulsars/torps (DD and BC naturally)Oh, one more thing: repair units get highest priority so make sure your BCs/dread are well managed to prevent destruction.
- if you go into the next level with ints/puls/torp you're going to get smashed because of dynamic diffulty. I won't give you spoilers, but rest assured going in with int/pul/tor is suicidal for next level
M0rpheyus; no vargyr construction vessels can ever be salvaged in single player
#6
I came into this mission with 2 BCs (one Vaygr), 1 carrier, 1 shipyard, 14 bombers squads, and 12 pulsar squads.
I faced this:
There are 2 more shipyards, and two more fleets of destroyers (one with a BC) which are behind the Station or on the right/left of the Station.
First tip: build lots of sensor distortion probes and use their massive range to have a complete view of the battlefield.
The Vaygr BCs are not a huge problem; all you have to do is disable their engines (and the missile launcher if you have time). I was able to knock out the engines on three BCs in one attack; they remained disabled whilst my BCs destroyed them.
However, in order to disable the BCs you need lots of strikecraft; the biggest obstacle on this level is the huge number of fighters & corvettes that the Vaygr keep throwing at you. If left unprotected, even a mighty ship like the Dreadnought will get shredded (mission over if this happens). This is why you should tool up for maximum production, i.e. lots and lots of carriers.
Last edited by Rent-a-Zilla; 26th Sep 03 at 2:26 AM.
I can't get soban out no matter what I do. The only thing I can think of, is that I have to get him before Makaan leaves. Is this right? if i don't do that, and Makaan leaves first, it just says "ship disabled" and I can't get soabn. ARRGH! Someone please help?
Don't attack the station. The station must be intact/have some health for you to extract Soban.
At least that's how I did it. I didn't disable the station at all. Just took out everything on the map, sent Makaan fleeing, and then sent a lone marine frigate to the basically unharmed (except for a few stray shots) station in the middle and it was done.
Oh, and here's my "walkthrough" for the mission - which works well for up to 16 BC's on the map.
1) Wait with your cap ship fleet near the MS. Don't move anything. Build a full complement of pulsar vettes to fend off the strike craft that come at you in waves.
2) Make waves upon waves of bombers (14 at a time being the limit). Send the first wave to take out the shipyard at the far right. Send the second wave, by going left, then up to the middle before making a right turn to take out the carrier to the middle left and throw what's left of the second bomber wave at the shipyard in the middle. While the 2nd wave is getting pounded, be building the third wave. Send the third wave in the same way as the second wave, and kill that middle shipyard. You may require a 4th wave to achieve this.
3) Always keep your cap ship fleet near the MS - DON'T move it forward - it gives you more time to regroup and heal, and you can move replacement units more quickly into any battles
4) Once the 2 shipyards and carrier are gone, get rid of half your bombers and turn them into 'ceptors, and retire 5 of your pulsars and build the allowable 5 miners. Lay down a field of mines in front of your cap ship fleet. Here's when the last large wave of Vagyr's will be coming at you and the miners will soften up most of the forces before they reach your fleet.
5) Put probes everywhere so you can plan well in advance for what's coming your way.
6) Send any bombers you have to the back to take out the BC's engines. Don't do it all at once though. Stagger the engine crippling by 1 minute or so. This breaks up any clusters of cap ships so that they only come in smaller groups, rather than all at once. If you get the time, use your bombers and ceptors to take out weapons sub-systems on BC's too.
#9
I replayed this map many times. This is my most successful strategy.
Pick an arbitrary spot to place your front line. I chose the halfway point between the starting spawn point and the closest enemy harvesting op, where you see that line of gun platforms. Don't attack anything right away, as this will stir up the hornet's nest before you are ready.
The goal with this particular strat is to survive through concentrated use of your firepower in one spot. Whatever you do, do not allow your ships to run off and chase the enemy. Keep them corralled at your battle line and let the enemy come to you, then kill them as they come. This is a war of attrition.
Place multiple probes out on the map so you can see what is coming your way. Place them above and below the plane and they will survive longer. Careful use of sensor distortion probes will also hide your fleet for a bit and give you time to get ready.
Move your capships to the battle line, bring up the frigs and strike craft just behind them. Max out on resourcers for repair usage. Start your MS and shipyard moving to bring them up close behind the battle line.
Max out on platforms. I used a 70/30 mix of ion/gun plats. As your plats are built, change them to aggressive settings and move them up to the battle line. They really add to your firepower.
The enemy will approach in groups. Destroy them as they come, then in between waves set your resourcers to repair your frigs and capships. Rebuild as neded. If low on resources, detail some of the resourcers to snag the larger bits of wreckage for quick cash.
Eventually the enemy will pretty much run out of resources and stop building ships. Then you are free to advance and destroy the shipyards and rescue the good Captain. Once the advance starts, make sure you begin harvesting debris and building your fleet back up, as the missions start moving faster from here on.
*** other tips ***
- enemy cap ships have an unnatural hatred of resource craft. A refinery or four sent out above and below the enemy lines will actually cause them to angle their BC's to attack with their main cannons, allowing you unrestricted access to their softer undersides and keeping their heavy guns diverted from your ships.
- 2 groups of bombers are extremely helpful. I place one group above the plane and one below, and make off-angle attacks on BC subsystems. Do this as soon as you see the BC's visible on the perimeter of your battle area. By disabling their engines you force them to advance in much smaller groups so they are easier to pick off when they arrive at the battle line.
- a force of pulsar gunships bandboxed to guard your capship line helps keep enemy bombers from disabling your caps or slowing down your fleet rebuilding.
- when you finally do advance to the station, keep your BC and desty's away from it. They will automatically attack it even when ordered not to, and you may destroy the station before you are ready. I did this once and had to play the whole mission over. That was painful.
I must be playing different version of Homeworld 2, as it seems like almost everybody has no problems getting through this mission. I played it plenty of times, trying to do different things, but always get stuck at the very end, when everything is destoyed but the main station. What do you do when you get to that point? I tried sending a marine frig to "extract" captain Soban, but all it does is "taget disabled", and that's it. How do one extracts him from the staion? And one more thing: my population caps go down in this mission(frigs from 21 to 12, destroyers from 5 to 3, and all the other ones). Is this happening to everyone?
#11
the lowered unti caps is a known bug. you can check the MTL for a solution
I think you have to restart clean from the save point before the one you're currently on.
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...730#post242730
GO THERE FOR ANYONE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH RESCUING CAPT. SOBAN
The above link is the solution for all the problems with mission 12. Basically, if you get stuck, you have to restart the mission from the main menu, not from the load menu. I did find out that if the mission gets stuck, and you haven't attacked the flagship yet, boarding the flagship with a marine frigate actually captures it, where normally you can only disable it.
Tip to make next mission much easier - retire one of your battlecruisers, and capture the one guarding the station(use bombers and pulsars to destroy surrounding destoyers). That battlecruiser has a hyperspace inhibitor, and it will prevent the hyperspace ambush in mission 13(or at least that's what I did, and it worked).
I finished this mission the slow-assault style, with my mothership and ship yard in hot pursuit (duh, why even bother mounting engines on the ship yard).
Bombers (loads of em)do the trick by knocking out BC's missile arrays, while yours kill the rest. Still, lost nearly my all destroyers and a BC.
A nice technique is phasing ion platforms into the battle. Build a group of 10 and move them to the front of your cap ship line, move the fleet, scuttle the aft 10 and repeat. It nearly worked until an enemy BC outflanked me and attacked my mothership! Motherships and Vaygr battlecruisers don;t mix well I can tell you, so I had to replay the mission and forgot about the ion platforms.
My succeful attempt included the carriers (2) building loads of ion frigates. They work well as decoys and I had plenty money. In the end everything was dead, even though some ships kept coming. His carrier retreated to a resource-cloud and the end-of-mission-like-it-or-not feature hyperspaced me out of the mission.
I really like the BC's abilty to repair strike craft, it saves the day.
I sent a bomber/pulsar corvette wing out on a seek-and-destroy mission. They killed stuff, died. I did it again. Finally, I hit concentrations of capital ships.
I then rebuilt my wings again, and my capital ships stormed foward, covered by them. The enemy had little left in the way of escorts, so it was a LOT easier to smash my way to the station, and get Soban.
From there, it was tidying up.
BIG TIP: retire a big part of your fleet before Makaan comes in!
First few tries I entered the game with my big mission 11 fleet consisting of a lot of less suitable ships and only 30K: DANG! 12+ enemy BC's, al my flaks chewed in no time, etc. Practically unbeatable.
Then I decided to retire al my ints in favour of bombs and to retire my flaks and defense fields in favour of ion frigs. I also retired some pulsars in favour of gunships, knowing that I did have some time before the real battle should begin.
I was still in the middle of the retiring proces when Makaan entered the game and guess what? This time only 4 enemy BC's!
So no need to get back to 11 to get well prepared, just retire in the beginning in favour of better suitable ships .
Another tip: use sensors distortion probes, they rock! A few of them is enough to lighten up the map, so you can prepare for BC attacks.
i did different.
i had no Frigs whatsoever.
2 BC
the dread
4 destroyer
full bomber and 50/50 corvs
To start off i pushed forward right away (strike craft) not a very good idea i soon ran out of momentum.
I pulled back and build interceptors instead of bombers.
i just build a wall of defence with my battlegroup and strikers.
I destroyed every single attack the enemy made with his fleets.
In front of my MS and defences was a whole field of debris
I lost a few destroyers on the way, and because of my early on mistake i lost a BC. (all rebuilded again.)
I kept rebuilding up loses but they were not so big.
Then i build Platts a whole bunch and send them to resource op1 with their plats.
They were destroyed with ease.
Then more of his attackwaves came, this time i did better lost only 1 Destroyer due to error
Then as he ran out of recourses he came for the debris in front of my MS i destroyed all his resourcers.
After that he send his last fighter, BC, DD wave.
I destroy them and swing left to the carrier.
It is vaporized in secs bij my force.
Then i move right build up some lost stike craft, and wait Passive
tactic.
Build some plats and move these to the nearest shipyard.
The enemy moves in i send my fleet in.
order of destruction: Shipyard, DD , DD, BC, DD, DD and some strike craft on the way.
Then i attack makaan, with 0% ship he hypers out ???
A well i build 2 marine frig and send them to station meanwhile i destroy last shipyard. When done i move fleet away and build op losses (i forgot 1 DD).
I grab soban and with no rebuilding to do:
:sprint:
I hyper out. Error ??? not realy but first try at 13 was ended in some fireballs of my fleet
Ill try get 13 again
After reading endless posts about the difficulty of this mission I was rather suprised to find my self walking through it in first try(usually I use a careless "head on" tactic the first time I play a mission - just to see what it is all about). On purpose I retired most of my fleet proir to the mission what probably made it much easier. It started with 75000 RU and rebuilded my fleet. I can't really remember what I build - I lost most of it quickly and all those ships didn't seems to make much of a difference anyway. I only really used my two BC's and the Dreadnaught backed up by 20 resource collectors and that's it. Nothing could withstand the immense firepower they shared between them. I lost the rest of my fleet quite early due to my lack of tactics and because I didn't tie them to the heavy hitters.
So to make it the easy way
1) retire your fleet
2) use heavy hitters
3) and 20 collectors (don't harvest!)
I found this mission to be quite easy compared to others I've faced, like 4 and 13. Here's what I did.
First, in Mission 11, I maxxed out. Some say don't do this, as it makes it that much harder for you, but for me I'd rather have the firepower up and ready, even if it means there's more to fight for having done so. I also pause micromanage like a fiend. It's what won this one so easily for me. I also research everything that becomes available to me, the moment it becomes available. It's costly in the first few missions as there's so much to research, but in the last half of the game, you only end up researching one or two things, and it's easy to keep up on.
When I hypered in, I paused like I always do and began giving orders to the fleet. I dispatched probes out in a fan pattern, about 40 km above the plane of the disc. They arrived in position quickly, and from there I assessed what I was facing.
The first and probably biggest threat I'd faced thus far was just off to the right of me. There were roughly 25 elite destroyers moving in fast. I use Ion frigates mainly, and I sent them along with my 5 destroyers, 2 battlecruisers, 1 dreadnaught, and my assortment of strike craft (14 bombers, 8 guns, 4 pulsar) Using pause micromanagement, I took on the destroyers one at a time, while using the strike craft to harrass them. I took a pretty big loss in the frigate dept. as I would have expected, but it was worth it, as for me, the toughest challenge of the game was out of the way. I moved my capital and frigate vessels back to front center of the MS, and advanced slowly. Most of my probes had been killed (center at least) but it didn't matter, I had a pretty good idea of what I was facing. I used all 20 of my harvesters to bandbox repair on the capital ships as they advanced, and I used the battlecruisers to keep my strike craft in top condition. My primary goal during my advance was to take out any ship producing vessels first (generally always my goal). I had advanced about 3/4 of the way to the station when 2 elite destroyers and a battlecruiser started moving in on the left of my MS. I had up a full compliment of platforms (I was running 3/1 ion, as I expected this mission to be much harder) I couldn't just turn my capital group around, they'd never make it, so I sent my 14 bombers. Attacking subsystems first, then the ships themselves, a mere 14 bombers stopped that assault in it's tracks. From then on, my ship producing vessels were never bothered again.
Makaan must have been smoking something, because I was driving my fleet toward the shipyard just to the right of the station, and he decided he was going to run his MS in between me and that shipyard. His funeral. The computer practically HANDED me that objective by not making me go hunt down Makaan myself. Once Makaan was down, as well as the not insubstantial fleet protecting him, the shipyard went down fast. Once that yard was down, the enemy just stopped coming. I used that time to mop up all the remaining non platform vessels on the map, and harvest the MASSIVE amounts of RU left in the wake of my group. I found another shipyard around back of the station, but my 14 bombers with protection from the 8 gun corvettes made short work of it. I rebuilt fully, repaired fully, and only then did I send in the marine frigate. Mission accomplished!
It sounds like you for some reason never ran into the some odd 9 other battlecruisers which should have been present (5 of which come together with destroyer and bomber support). That might explain why you found the mission easy.
Sorry wrong mission
Oh no. Running up the middle I ran into about 9 BC before I ever made it to the station, but with strike craft taking out subsystems I walked all over them. There were also 3 at the station too, but after what I went through to get to them, it wasn't a problem.
i started the mission w/ ~130000 RUs 14 bomber squads, 12 gunship squads, 5 destroyers, 2 bc's and the dreadnaught, i tried bombing one of the shipyards from underneath and did nothing but kill all of my bombers, so then, the Vaygr forces start sending capships and fighters in like crazy, i tried... but in the end, i just died, what do i do?
I beat the game once with my butt handed to me on almost every mission and now that I have tons of fire power and RU's, I'm running into trouble. So far I had about the same setup. Full out on Frigs (torp and flak) 14 bombers, max on pulsars and gunships, 10 movers, 2BC, 5 Destroyers, 1 carrier, 1 yard, 1 dread and about 105K in RU's. Unfortionately I havent gotten through 12 but "I have discovered a weakness". After the umpteen try, this has been the most successful. Build platforms and collectors like crazy, carrier, and stack up flaks, torps, pulsars and bombers in the que. I send out send probes to the field. Immediately send all bombers and vettes to the shipyard on the right, followed by the torps. Get to the shipyard fast; as it will build a destroyer and BC. Knock out the cap facility as soon as you get there with bombers. Then start to knock out the other facilities. It seems that the yard will build the cap facility slower if you knock out other facilities right after. Take out the yard or you will suffer a slow and painful death screaming in the mud. There are two destroyers and a couple of frigs above the yard but they don't come in. In the mean time, send your destroyers, any movers (save your movers for Maakhan) and flaks up the left side far enough from any v-bomber attractions and attack the carrier there (I left it alone before and later wondered "where did that new yard come from?". Around this time you sense Maakhan comes in. Here's where I think I made a mistake. I left him alone I think I should attack him immediately with the destroyers and anything else in the area. There is a BC and a few destroyers with torp frigs next to him. Use any remaining/new bombers and movers to take out the missles on the BC. While this battle is raging, send half of the platforms half way between your MS and the v-resource op. You'll use the other half and park it farther up or send it to the BC with 2 destroyer escort that tries to flank your MS. The BC's are slowed very quickly by targetting their engines; there were SO many of them. Their engines go down very fast. I used bombers to take out the engines then their missles and let by BC's make kibbles and bits out of 'em. I think my biggest problem is spending too much time taking out the v-bombers with pulsars; so that's why I think I need to chase Maakhan away because he sends in loads of those pesky bombers too. I also think I need to do a better job with Marine frigs. Use lots of resource collectors to repair only.
okok, i got the far right shipyard to about 1/3 life with my first wave of 14 bombers and 12 gunships, i was going to send another wave of pulsars but i had to get off the comp, am i doing this right?
This mission was difficult for me because of the bloody dreadnaught AI kept sending the thing to randomly attack incoming battlecruisers and get itself killed. Therefore I set it to guard my MS and it just sat behind my forces and remained generally safe.
After four tries I decided to take a new approach. I hunkered down, got a LOAD of ion turrets and placed them randomly about my immediate ship line, including obscenely upwards and downwards. I tossed in about 4 gun platforms for good cause and began maxing on remaining ships like destroyers as I had already a large fleet to begin with.
Essentially I kept my BC's in the front, all frigs (18 torps rest flakk) behind them with destroyers, and micromanaged my bombers. Waves came unendingly and my game lasted for two and a half hours. Eventually, though, the enemy ran out of RU and began throwing his final, vicious fleets at me... Consiting of a shipyard, a few carriers, and Makaan's flagship. I had an enormous debris field with which to defend and he used what little he had to try to take it from me, but after that long of a battle, it was quite easy for me to snuff out the last of the opposition.
A few tips I learned from this approach -
Don't EVER suspect they're done attacking until their production ships come along to claim your immense garbage land that you've created out of their ships.
I tried to harass them and take the carriers/shipyards early on with vettes and bombers, but my attacks always got stomped. I started off with 170kRU and a full fleet so that's why it was so hard, but it was damn funny! Nothing beats the satisfaction of the enemy sending his 15 speed shipyards to attack you.
My biggest tip for this mission is that you MUST use platforms to defend yourself. I didn't lose a single ion turret platform because they never targeted them, and the platforms have a GIGANTIC range. They plowed through everything besides the big buisers, but my bombers and bcs pelted those good enough. Take out the missile batteries first and micro your bcs/caps to avoid their trinity cannons (those really sting) then molest their unprotected flanks once the interceptors have all been turned into fine paste by your immense ionization sunday special.
Last edited by IskatuMesk; 7th Oct 03 at 11:39 PM.
I have.
2 Battle Cruisers
5 Destroyers
6 Ion Frigates
8 Torpedeo Frigates
4 Flak Frigates
Dreadnought
12 Squads of Pulsa corvettes
ANd still can't do it!!!
Before i even got to the Station i took out 6 Heavy Missile Frigates countless HUNDREDS of bombers 12 Destroyers and no LESS then 8 Battler Crusiers. WTF this is too frecking hard!!!
dazz, remember what ppl said about that fleet scaling thing? retire ur destroyers, and frigates. When the mission starts, send ur bombers and pulsar corvs to the far right shipyard and blow it up.(dont send them straight there, make them go down on the z plane, then move over there, then attack) build gun plats to protect against fighters and use ur 2 bc's and dread to keep capships away (have resourcers repair them too)at the beginning of the mission, max ion frigates and put them in the back of ur fleet(so they dont attack the oncoming attackers, the ions are for killing the next shipyard) after you kill the first far right shipyard w/ ur bombers/pulsars, bring them back to the ms and dock them, then move ur ions to the next shiyard, (the one in the middle) and attack that one, (use ur bombers/pulsars as well) then, when that's all done, do the same with the last shipyard, and ur done. remember to attack from the z plane, because the vaygr always plays on the x,y plane, so you can take advantage of the z plane to move ur fleet around.
I built a Wall of Ion Cannons and played a defensive strategy centered around them. At the end of the day I was down to the Dread and a single battlecruiser (+ carriers + collectors +MS shipyard) but had anhillated the enemy fleet except for the fleet that guards Makaan and the station. From there onwards the Vaygr had harvested all the resources on the map except a HUGE recently made debris field. From here on in it was a matter of building up a fleet and using interceptors/bombers to ice the enemy collectors.
I was able to beat the mission with the following setup as well as some useful strategies.
In the beginning of the game, I have
- 3 Scouts, 3 ints, 8 bomers
- 11 pulsars
- 6 flaks, 2-3 ions, 2 DFFs, rest are tropedo
- 5 destroyers
- 2 BCs
- 1 Dreadnought
- 2 carriers
- 4 movers
- 20 resource collectors
- Shipyard of course (Added recently)
Facing more than 6 BCs, 6 destroyers, few assult frigs, and few HMFs, not mentiong countless bomers and corvettes, I had to replace half of the frigs, 2/3 of the fighters, 2/3 of the corvettes, and all resource collectors.
Here are some hints that I think may be useful to you.
- I grouped each type of the units separately. I mean fighters in one group, corvettes in one group, flaks in one group, trop and ion in one group, DDF in one group (but they are micromanaged later), Destroyers in one group, and BCs and Dreadnought in one group... etc. Resource collectors in two groups. Movers in one group.
- never try to use your frigs to attack anything things bigger or equal to destroyers. No matter how many frigs you have, you are just wasting them.
- use DFF to guard your trops and ions, it saves you heaps when they are attacking by missiles from BCs and Destroyers. (Assume you use the DFF properly)
- group all your destroyers together and protected by DFF. Same strategy apply to the frigs.
- (Added recently) your destroyers are to fight against enemy destroyers. Concentrate your destroyers fire to enemy destroyers one at a time. Because you have DFF, your destroyers last much longer than theirs.
- Move the Flaks close to your destroyers and BCs group so that they will kill all bomers and lance fighters. (Added recently) because your flaks close to the capital ships, hence, they are also protected by the DFF...
- Trops and ions frigs are for enemy's covettees attacking your captial ships, so keep them behind the captial ships.
- focus the resource collectors for healing. I have only one chance to use them to collect some resources in the early stage of the battle. I have them all killed by the enemy when they were reparing ships.
- build lots of ion platforms and keeps them around MS and carriers. You can always move the platforms to the front line when you need them. I always place them behind the captial ship just to support the fire. Basically, they are so weak against destroyers and other bigger ships.
- In the middle of the battle, there were one BC and a destroyer ran in between my strike group and MS from the right. I have to turn my dreadnought and one BC to destroy the BC and bomers and corvettee to finish off the destroyer.
- Sometimes you may find the enemy is targeting the fire to the BCs and Dreadnought, move your DFF to protect them. Because you only have two DFFs, so observe and move them to protect your ships wherever necessary.
- Focus fighters and covettees fire power in the front line. Killing off the missile facilities on the BCs, but don't fly them too close to the enemy platforms near the resource patch in the front...
- put bomers, flak frigs, corvettes, resource collectors in all queues for building. As I mentioned earlier, most of them got replaced. You will suffer substantial losses, don't worry, just replace them.
- focus your BCs and Dreadnought fire power on BCs when they are in range. because Dreadnought turn the head very slowly, so target enemy BCs in clock-wise or anticlock-wise direction.
- Trops are very useful against enemy resource collectors. They will come and try to collect the wreckages, just kill them using the trops... providing they are not running too far from protection.
- Don't forget to dock the fighters and corvettees whenever opportunity provided.
- I used corvettes to protect my bombers outside from being attacked by enemy fighters and covettes.
- send out at least four proximity senors to have a better view on the enemy status.
- (Added recently) If you ask me what had happened to the movers. I honestly don't know. I just let them attack anything they want around my MS. I think I lost all of them at the end.
There are still a lot of micro-managed activities happened in the battle that I think they will be different in your situation, therefore, pause often and think carefully before you decide what to do.
I have around 37000 RUs in the beginning and I think I have used them all (include building an extra carrier with all facilities, FCT on BCs etc I basically max out everything... again), however, I got around 50000 RUs in the beginning of the next mission. I think because there were so many BC and Destroyer wreckages on the map...
BTW, at the end of the mission, I realise none of my BC has the Fire Control Tower... :0 So, if you have FCT on the BC, the result may be better.
Hope that is not too complicate...
Last edited by CrazyWolfHW2; 13th Oct 03 at 10:41 PM.
OMG why the fk didn't i come here earlier I played this mission 30+times and lost every single time
The mission is easier if you capture the hyper-capable BC in M11 and use it to kill the back two shipyards.
Other suggestions still apply -- initially take a defensive posture with the fleet
and wipe out some waves; take out the carrier with bombers; then roll up the middle when it collapses.
see http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...192#post265192
-dB
my quick strat:
entered with dread and 2BCs, 4 destroyers and around 10 flak frigates (they tear through large groups of strike craft - it isn't even funny), 7 pulsars, 14 bombers.
build 5 minelayers and 20 ion plats put a minefiled in front of your position and one to the right for the group of destroyers/frigates coming from that way). if you keep replenishing the minefields things will get much easier. the tricky part is judging how far forward the minefield should be. it should be so that enemy BCs trigger it before encountering your ships. dock minelayers often as they are prime targets for vaygr strike craft.
note: if you let each minlayer create his own wall-o-mines you get many more mines in the same area (albeit slower).
put the ion plats in the frontal minefield (keep replacing them as they get shot). aggressively attack lone strike craft groups heading towards miners with your flak frigates.
now just sit and wait and kill everything that comes your way (pulsars and flaks for enemy strike craft; mines, bombers, plats and heavys for the enemy BCs) keep retreating behind your wall(s) of mines and keep healing your ships. field frigates work well in the front lines! even large groups of enemy BCs can be handlede this way with the loss of maybe 4-5 platforms
after some time the enemy will run out of resources (you know when he comes in with single strike craft groups). when that happens build a scout to ping once for any left over surprises and waltz in to save soban.
the amount of wreckage at your defense site will be impressive
i started the mission whit 5 bombers 10 pulsars 2 minelayers 2 dfg 2bc 2 carriers 1 shipyard 20 recourse collectors 4 of those other recourse units and the mothership and the dreathnaught
i started by deploying some probes and by making 7 more bombers i made a minefield too on the right of the ms i only encounterd 1 shipyard and 1 carrier and 3 bc. i dont know why you guys had so many but it could be because i had almost no units when i started the mission. it was really very easy just stayed at my ms until they ran out of cash and i used 12 bombers to blow up the carrier.
I am going to retire all my frigates and replace them with flak frigates, retire them shlt plusa corvettes and replace them with movers, build the max amount of bombers and send in my carrier with them guarded with the max amount of ion turrets i've had enough of this BS.
make that 39 ok I did wut all you guys told me to do in the above posts but it never works!!!!!!
My minelayers get slaughtered
my bc's get smoked
my frigates go boom
my strike craft are slowly destroyed
and my destroyers are toastt!!!!!!!!
HOW do you do this?????!!!!!! Can any1 plz HELP show me how to put in the cheat code (I can't do it) or give me a good strategy that i haven't heard before.
WTF i thought the turrets follow it's builder how come they didn't move with my carrier???????
just sell all your frigs and all your destroyers make sure you have 2 minelayers and the rest pulsars and make sure you have 14 bombers that all at the end of mission 11 then when you start 12 you dont have any destroyers or frigs and the enemy has fewer ships 4 or 5 bc´s 2 shipyards and 1 carrier. then go on the defensive dont make plats they are waste of cash use the pulsars to defend against fighters and corvetts you dont need flag frigs for that pulsars are faster harder to hit em and they do the work as good as the frigs.
Originally posted by Candy Andy
make that 39 ok I did wut all you guys told me to do in the above posts but it never works!!!!!!
My minelayers get slaughtered
my bc's get smoked
my frigates go boom
my strike craft are slowly destroyed
and my destroyers are toastt!!!!!!!!
HOW do you do this?????!!!!!! Can any1 plz HELP show me how to put in the cheat code (I can't do it) or give me a good strategy that i haven't heard before.
ok, I gather you do not feel like cheating by retiring ships - so here it is in a nutshell:
minelayers: have them in a control group and dock them as soon as enemy forces (especlly strike craft) show up. the nice thing is the strike graft will go for your miners and you can pulverize them with your flak frigates on the way - this only works if you have enough oif them though..
BCs: do you have resourcers repairing them? if not, do so. and NEVER move the BCs forward into or beyond your minefield
Frigates: (and all other larger ships) keep them on F2 so they wont go leaving your defensive position. especially destroyers and flaks have to be manually withdrawn every now and then. keep everything behind your minefield - ALWAYS! do not hesitate to disengage to recall errant frigates. do not use ion frigs - they are a waste. use flak frigs (13) torpedo frigs (6) and defense field frigs (2) similar. defense fields frigs are great if your most forward position (behind the minefield) is 20 ion-plats and the defense field covers them.
strike craft: micro the damaged units to dock. 14 bombers, 7 pulsars and 5 minelayers work well. if the enemy comes with just BCs and destroyers attack with pulsars and bombers, dont even waste your BCs on a battle like that - they won't stand a chance.
Ok i got a q about that strat
Why pulsars???????
I mean really the vaygr send waves of BOMBERS at you and gunships r way more effective vs them
nother thing
why r ions a waste?????
they add xtra firpower to my caps to really smoke the destroyers
By the way did any1 face as many ships as I did?
3 WAVES OF TEN DESTROYERS
3 waves!!!!!!!!
wut the #$%^ i am so mother %$#(@^ pissed off!!! My frigs die in like the 1st wave
destroyers-second
bc's third
thus at the end i hve nothin but like 2 strik craft squads and my 'naught !!!!!!!!!
OH MY GOD!!!!!! :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage:
42 ok now i am mad
thats the reason why you do not use ion frigs, because they rush forward and get targeted (and killed - destroyers are REALLY good at killing frigs). 20 ion plats with 2 shield frigates behind them are much more survivable. the enemy will focus on them if you keep your ships behind them, and through the shielding will not achieve much (replenish losses to the plats ASAP) - enough time to shred them with bombers/pulsars (keep flaks and heavies BACK! - heavies come ONLY into play when the enemy shows up with multiple (3-8) BCs)
when destroyers and BCs show up use pulsars (and bombers). destroyers (and BCs) can't handle those at all. also 7-12 squads of pulsars AND 14 squads of bombers make short work of any subsystem in one pass (missiles AND engines on the BC - yes, pulsars CAN target subsystems quite effecticvely). ALWAYS go for subsystems first on BCs. I just replayed the mission, and the strat works even without minefields.
13-20 flak frigates (with 0-7 torpedo frigs) give you ample fighter cover...no need to waste slots on gunships (yes, they kill fighters pretty well, but they take their sweet time about it, what you need is IMMEDIATE stopping power for fighters - 13-20 flak frigates will give you that.) pulsars may aid in anti-fighter/vette work where needed. they are also good at killing those infiltrator frigates going for your carriers - they are the units you can spare most and you will need your heavy hitters (bombers, destroyers, BCs) on the front lines.
note: repair, reapir, repair, rebulid collectors, rebuild plats, replenish frigates/destroyers. I start with around 70000RUs and they are gone by the time the last wave of BCs shows up. ping the battlefield before advancing your fleet.
note 2: all new ships come out at F3 status - set them immediately to F2 or they will rush into the enemy (especially annoying for new flak frigs and destroyers)
note 3: make sure you have less than 21 frigs when rescuing soban (mission bug?)
note 4: do you have neough production facilities? motherships, shipyard and at least 2 carriers (4 is preferrable)
note 5: focus fire (especially the plats!)
note 6: probes: use 3-5 probes to increase your vision so you know whats heading your way. put them slightly above the normal plane or they will get attacked by passing craft.
note 7: redock bombers and pulsars often. do not hesitate to withdraw them from heated battles (bomber/pulsar squads down to 1 ship don't do much damage anyways)
Last edited by antialias; 21st Oct 03 at 5:24 AM.
candy andy:
max out bombers, pulsars and movers at the start of the misssion and send them all in a fighter group up the middle, and hit the middle shipyard asap...just destroy all the modules you wont take out the shipyard...(you might want to avoid the middle platforms to preserve your bombers, and hit them will any surving fleet after hitting the SY)
max out 5 destroyers, 2 BCs and w/ the dreadnought , this fleet should be formidable.
if u need some time to build sens out a fast vessel, a scout or a firgate and use it as a decoy.
the AI is pretty dumb and will send part of the fleet to go after it..
i had a couple of destroyers that i captured but felt that Hyg BCs are better with upgrade, so i sent them on a scout mission, one left and one right, the Vygar divided up their fleet and went chasing after the destroyers, and i had time to organise my bomber fleet again.
Originally posted by Candy Andy
Ok i got a q about that strat
Why pulsars???????
I mean really the vaygr send waves of BOMBERS at you and gunships r way more effective vs them
Gunships are fine. In fact, I start out with an even mix of pulses/gunships and after Mission 4 keep replacing dead pulse groups with gunships. Torpedo frigs eat corvettes really well. I don't make pulses after I can get torps.
nother thing
why r ions a waste?????
they add xtra firpower to my caps to really smoke the destroyers
Destroyers and Heavy Cruisers eat frigates. Ion frigs have less range than torps, destroyers or heavy cruisers and so have to get up close, get targeted, and die. You say they're dying in the first wave. That should tell you something.
Use bombers and corvettes on the destroyers and heavy cruisers, because they will own the big ships. Target one destroyer at a time or one HC engine at a time. Add in your destroyers and HCs, focusing their fire on a single ship or two. Leave your Torpedo frigates back a bit to take on swarms of strike craft and then hit the big ships (focusing fire again) with them after they're busy with your other ships. Have a control group of at least 6 collectors to repair your capital ships and Pause often!
EDIT: Oh, yeah, and like has been said, a wall of Ion Platforms works wonders. They build so fast and have such a nice, long range.
Last edited by VtC; 21st Oct 03 at 10:15 AM.
Keep in mind you do have a progenitor dreadnaught, place it over or under your ion plat wall with collectors repairing it. keep a dff with it and be prepared to withdraw it if it gets heavily damaged. The extra firepower is better than a third BC, and with its 500000 health, even withdrawing it at 50% still can last for a long time
47
lol....half half bombers/interceptor...all pulsars...this is your offense
5 destoryers..2 BCs and dreaghnaught for defense.set them just behind the MS (they tend to creep foward, in a a fight which is a pain )!
DO NOT attack..let the vaygrs come to you.
use your offense ealry hi that middle Shipyard, it on the left of the middle circle in the sensor..sacrifice all your squadron to nullify the SY
Blow up the engines of the Battlecruisers + destroyers with a fleet of bombers. Sitting ducks are far easier to deal with. have a carrier out of range of the BC's, and each time you attack a BC, dock and replentish.
It's slow, but it works.
I have just a quick question about this mission: How long should it take to master it ? I mean I have tried nearly everything posted here and have spent quite an amount of evenings now and I still don´t get through. It seems I was too thorough collecting RU´s the missions before, 107k seems to a good reason for the AI to be vengeful... Argh, those damn Vaygr BC´s....
well, I had a maxed out fleet and about 60k RU.
got the mission licked on the third try (me bad) - second run was probably lost due to all 14 of my fff (frigging flak frigates) rushing into the enemy encampment when i wasn't looking, leaving me without protection from strikecraft
also positioning the defense field frigates, but forgetting to use them might have 'helped'.
if the BC's give you too much trouble then engage them early with hit and run attacks. place some probes so that you get REALLY early warning when they are coming and send out 14 bomber squads to quickly take out one or two of the BCs engines - ignore strike craft/defenses. return and repair. if the BCs have not arrived at your installation then do the same again to another one or two BCs. do not try to destroy the BCs with the bombers far from 'home' (takes forever and you will lose many because there are enemy platforms/strike craft around). but this way you stagger their approach. so that you can deal with them one or two at a time.
20 ion plats under a defense field with 2BCs and the dreadnaught should make short work of oncoming BCs (keep your destroyers back!)
Last edited by antialias; 29th Oct 03 at 4:42 AM.
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