Mission 12

[leixusam]

This mission worked out fine for me, I started the mission with no attacking frigates, but 4 carriers, so you can build up your frigate fleet as soon as you get in here. I didn't get too many BCs here. I also had 2 DFF, and 4 marines in this one.

Picture:


I have some probes built in the last mission already, so send them out and below the horizon, or they'll get destroyed. Basically cover the front and the right of your MS.

Like this...


I built some, about 5 flaks, and the rest torps or ions.

Then I built 15 ion plats, 5 gun plats, and used my DFFs to cover them up. Put the plats about half way between you MS and the enemy resource.

Wait for the first wave of enemy, and this is the worst one, make sure your ships don't go too far beyond your plats. Activate DFFs only when a destroyer+ ship comes in.

Use your marines to capture the enemy BC coming in at the right of your MS with some DDs. Use bombers to take out DDs and the heavy missle module on BC, then capture it. I then scuttled my Vaygor BC captured in M09. The newly captured one should have a hyperspace inhibitor on it, if not, then capture some other ones. This will be useful in M13.

I basically waited until the enemy is no longer coming. I think they ran out of resource since their command center is not even produing fighters anymore, and I guard the resource in front of my MS too good that they can't get anything.

If you ping the battlefield and see nothing produced/coming anymore, (Usually after the death of Makaan) then you can go ahead and clear out the BC fleet in front of the command center (1 BC), the shipyards, and send in marines to complete the mission.

Retire all your frigates for the next mission!

[QuarryTFLord]

I took a very aggressive approach to this mission and it worked beautifully. I had:
8 bombers, 4 inters, 2 scouts
4 minelayers, 4 pulsars, 4 gunships
8 torps, 6 flaks, 2 def fields, 2 marine, 3 ions
5 destroyers and the usual 2 BC and the dread
4 carriers. all modules and researches plus 230000RU
As the mission started I sent all my fighters and bombers to pick on the shipyard on the right. bombers killed the modules while corvs and inters were killing off all the enemy fighters. This also made the main enemy BC group to turn to protect the shipyard. Once I had killed all the modules in the first shipyard I sent my corvs and inters to hit the recourcers on the RU patch behind the shipyard. I also sent bombers to kill modules from the middle shipyard as well. There things got pretty hot for my bombers but I still got cap frig and fighter modules from it before I had to pull out. didnt loose any squads. then I grouped all of them back to the first shipyard and killed all the modules it had rebuilt, destroyed engines from some of the BCs and then I retreated all of them for docking. I didnt loose any squads doing this. Speed is everything.
Also as the mission started I sent all destroyers straight forward to the main enemy harvesting point. the destroyers killed every last worker they had. then I set up a minefield behind the RU patch and grouped my BCs, dread and destroyers behind the minefield. And behind them I grouped all torps and flaks to kill fighters and guarded them with def fields. Then the enemy destroyer group came and was totally slaughtered. Right after this I made heavy attack with my BCs and dread and destroyed the middle shipyard as well as 2 enemy BCs. then I pulled back behind my minefield and started repairing the BCs. I was able to do this because of the fighter attacks against the shipyards which turned most of the enemy BCs around.
This is actually very hard to do since u must execute 2 flawless attacks at the same time.
After I had accomplished all this and repaired my fighters the enemy BCs started to get close to me again. This point I sent all fighters to kill of the BCs engines, starting from the one furthest away from me. the disabled BCs stopped while the functioning ones kept closing to me, this put the enemy BC in line for me. I had to pull back from my minefield and I also sent some ionplats out as a diversion to buy enough time for my fighters to stop the BCs. But once I had the enemy BCs in a nice line I turned around. now I was able to kill all the cruisers 1 by 1 without them fireing back at me. well...not entirely without them fireing back at me. but without engines they couldnt use the trinity cannon and most of the missiles I blocked with def field frigs. I had so many BCs gunning for me that I simply didnt have enough time to keep the missile batterys down so I concintrated only on engines.
I used destroyers and few bomber squads to stop the group that tries to flank the mothership
Again...this aint easy to do cuz u have to concintrate on 2 or perhaps even 3 battles at the same time. But it secures a lot more RUs for u and slows down enemy building process. Use pause and dont forget to save after u have accomplished something real well.

[Hot Soup]

This is probably the toughest mission yet also my favourite mission. It took me a few go's but I found the best strategy was to have your entire fleet of capital ships , frigates and a full 20 ion platforms situated around the first resource point directly in front of you.

I can't stress the importance of managing your fleet correctly here , I found putting all ships on passive a good idea as they can tend to attack incoming ships on their own , keep them on passive until they are all in range of the platforms. Keep all your collectors nearby , I had a full compliment of 20 keeping my destroyers and heavier ships healthy ( also when in my mission I get around 6 / 8 battlecruisers and a handfull of destroyers hitting my lines all at once the battlecruiser's often waste their fire on the collectors )

Bombers and movers are handy kept off to one side ready to attack anything slipping by your lines or run interferance against any bigger ships you need to keep an eye on. Keeping all your other strike craft ( I had an even mix of corvettes and 4 interceptor squadrons grouped together ) grouped as one and kept ahead of your main battle line to intercept enemy strike craft.

Keep replacing any losses ( especially platforms and oddly enough collectors as mentioned above the battlecruisers regularly waste trinity cannon fire taking them out .. whilst getting shot at by my two battlecruisers and the dreadnaught ) , use some sensor distortion probes off of the plane of the mission and using pause to allocate orders ( always always always target all firepower on enemy battlecruiser's .. you won't belive how quickly 6 of them chewed through my full fleet when I wasn't paying attention .. not to mention the 3 who follow a few minutes behind ) and the mission is doable.

I won't say it's easy .. it isn't , I jumped in with a full fleet from mission 11 and about 90k res and had to take out around 13 battlecruisers. Bloody hard , but bloody good fun

Oh and lastly if your using a captured vagyr battlecruiser I would think about retiring it and build a hiigaran one with full upgrades.. as I played about with a captured one on this level several times against a single battlecruiser on this level. Even though I got the first volley of missiles and trinity cannon fire into the enemy ship , I was always soundly beaten. I'm assuming this is due the the ships on this level having their upgrade and the captured one not.
However if you have the hyperspace one from mission 11 .. thats another matter ... interesting things can be done with that

[avx17]

Why can't I capture any of the bloody battle cruisers? My frigates dock and they say they have captured the ship but nothing happens. The same thing happened to me on Mission 11. Is it because I already have 2 Hiigaran Battle Cruisers?

[leixusam]

Yes you can only have two BCs, Hiig or Vayg. Retire/scuttle one of yours would do.

[djhenry]

well, that's it ! i'll try again and then i'll post a shot so you will see what my problem is !
Eventualy, afterr 6 minutes of gameplay, weather i am sitiing, or rushing forward, no matter what strategy i use, i get overwhelmed by bomber, lance fighters, scouts, 5 BC and 11 destroyers, i have 70000RU @ start, but i use most of them in replenishing my armada.

[antialias]

Eventualy, afterr 6 minutes of gameplay, weather i am sitiing, or rushing forward, no matter what strategy i use, i get overwhelmed by bomber, lance fighters, scouts, 5 BC and 11 destroyers, i have 70000RU @ start, but i use most of them in replenishing my armada.

what type of frigates do you have? torps (and ions) are basically useless in this scenario.
torps - because the enemy does not build vettes
ions - because they rush forward and get obliteratd by destroyers/BCs in one volley. enemy heavies focus on your frigs first if they are within range so it is wise to have all flaks and retreat them BEHIND your heavies when enemy heavies show up so they don't get toasted. always keep them on F2 (keep EVERYTHING ALWAYS on F2).

going all flaks is the key to success here. 10 or more flaks will ensure that the enemy strike craft does not get one shot off (I go in with 17 or so flak frigates, because I love 'em so much , the others are 2 shield frigs and one marine frig for later) . also you can now concentrate on building strike craft that can hit heavies (14 bombers and 12 pulsars, 10 movers - although the movers tend to die quickly. if you want you can play around with miners, but the enemy targests them first so this is tricky). and you can forgo building gun platforms - concentrate on ion platforms (20 at all times) - cover them with the def field. the enemy will waste a godly amount of firepower trying to punch through the shields in vain. firepower that is not tearing your fleet apart.

hit the enemy heavys with your strike craft BEFORE he gets within range of your heavys. when they are far out hit engines to string out the BCs so you can deal with them one or 2 at a time. when they arrive kill the launchers - do not let your bombers/pulsars continue to kill a BC without a launcher...that is what your BCs and DN are for. Immediately move them on to the next BC. once all launcher are out of comission go for engines. dock and repair often. squads of one pulsar or 1-2 bombers do not do much damage anyways.

set all resourcers to repair BCs/DN/destroyers/def field frigs and keep making them (the enemy will waste many shots going for the resourcers instead of your BCs).
apart from that - throw the kitchen sink at 'em.

the key is to understand what the enemy can't handle in this mission. the answer is: vettes and bombers. the enemy just doesn't have enough lancers or assault craft. and if you manage to draw these towards your flaks with a quick hit and fade then they are gone in seconds too. after that its free turkey shooting for your strike craft.

[rols]

I had a really tough time on this mission. I came in with only 15k RU so all offensive strategies were just not possible... couldn't replace losses.

Tried a few of the other strats - miners - bombers etc. but nothing was working.

So it came down to trying Ion platforms which worked awesomely.

My fleet :
- 13 ints
- 1 bomber
- 3 gun vettes
- 7 pulsars
- 8 ion frigs
- 6 torp frigs
- 5 destroyers
- 2 BC
- 1 dread
- 2 carriers

Basically when you start don't move a thing, besides resourcing the patch close by until enemy starts coming.
Build ion platforms in a 3d grid about 2k in front of capital ship line and replace as they are destroyed (not many will be targeted).
Give the capital ships order to gaurd the mothership and order all other ships to gaurd dreadnaught. (fighters automatically take out enemy fighters/bombers and frigates go for whatever else comes close, while providing a great decoy for their BC's and Destroyers). Also have as many resourcers as possible ordered to repair all capital ships (another decoy... so e capitals don't targeted and your capitals and they stay unscathed - for as long as possible).

The only thing i needed to micromanage were my capital ships and Ion platforms (both in control groups). When a wave comes only order your capitals to target their capitals (BC's first then destroyers) when they start targeting the ion plats. Use ion plats to take out destroyers. When wave is destroyed order capitals to gaurd mothership (brings them back behind ion plat wall and groups them close together) and wait for next wave.
I lost all my frigs but the rest of my fleet made it through.

Oh one other thing. When your fighters/gun 'vettes have nothing to attack, find approaching BC's (with your well laid out probe network) and take out their engines. Make the attack waves slightly easier to handle.

[Hot Soup]

Frigates do work in this mission. The key is set them to f2 so they don't wander off on their own. Have two seperate groups , I have a handfull of flak's grouped together with my mobile refineries and these guys sit behind the battlecruisers. The rest are 90% ion and a few torpedoe and again these guys sit off behind the capital ship battlegroup.

As i said in my previous post have all three super capitals and all 5 destroyers grouped togther and in formation ( again f2 so they don't wander off )

Have All your corvettes and even spread of gunships and pulsars does nicely and perhaps 4 interceptor squadronsa nd group them all together. These guys sit a fair bit ahead of your battle line but before the enemies first res pocket. With this group in formation you can pick off any and all strike craft and corvettes that are incoming. Plus with your bomber and movers squadrons as an additional strike force you can take out the first few destroyers that come and get started on damaging any battlecruisers. But don't go overboard! Dock them when they get too badly damaged .. they'll cope pretty well until about 50% damaged then pull them back for docking. If they are in combat this is where the refinery and flak squadron comes in handy , wait until any pursuing strike craft are in range then target them but do not leave your line or get ahead of your line.

Now again this mission isn't easy but it's doable. As said a main battle line of capitals , a full compliment of 20 ion platforms ahead of your big guns and bomber and frigate strike groups just behind for support and you can do it. I had 6 battlecruiser in one go plus about another 5 at intervals to deal with and by using the above methods and concentrating all firepower from frigates , platforms and big guns you can cope with the bc squadron.

Keep repairing , replacing and using pause to manage the battles and you can do it. If you start the mission with 70k RU that should be enough to replenish losses and beleive me the amount of ru's you get from debri's is insane.

Hold the line , keep bringing in reinforcements as needed and target all fire on the battlecruisers.

[antialias]

As i said in my previous post have all three super capitals and all 5 dreadnaughts grouped togther

5 dreadnaughts? where the hell did you get those

naah..i know..typo...5 destroyers...just looked funny

what I found by repeatedly playing this scenario: your destroyers are actually pretty useless here. the big guns of enemy battlecruisers take them down quite fast and they do not really help all that much in dishing out damage to enemy destroyers when your BCs are around (and they could fire at enemy BCs all day without causing too much damage)

movers also seem to get killed by the handfull - don't bother with them (unless you are short on bombers/pulsars).

hmm..has anyone tried to max out on mobile refineries? maybe they could be used as an additional line of defense against strike craft - the beauty is they don't wander off.

[Hot Soup]

I did mean destroyers ... my own fault for not proof reading my post

But on the contrary destroyers do help a good deal. As i said when i did this mission i had about 13 bc's in total and a squad of 6 at one time backed up by numerous destroyers and frigates and strike craft.

They key is keeping them f2'ed and not wandering away from your line. The AI will always ( in my experience ) go for certain ships. Res collectors that are on repair duties , marine frigates and destroyers seem to be favourite targets. The sheer amount of firepower that 6 elite vagyr battlecruisers and their escorts put out is frightening .. but with them their it gives the bc'sa nd dread far more time to concentrate on the enemy big guns.

But as i've said by concentrating all firepower .. I mean everything on the bc's I was able to take them down with reasonable losses .. ie a pile of frigates , turrets and only two of my destroyers. So by the time makaan has jumped in I've got my fleet pretty much back at full strength and taken out about 8 of the bc's and the rest come one at a time .

[antialias]

just tested the viability of 4 (max)mobile refineries for additional fighter defense on this level. they work great. hardly ever does the enemy target them (I lost one refinery). especially since I kept them close to my forward emplacement ( 2 defense fiel frigates, 20 ion platforms). they are especially helpful when the enemy enters with strikecraft and heavies at the same time (thats usually about the time your frigates start dropping like flies) - at such times I could keep my frigates back a bit more and not have them run into enemy destroyers.

with some micro I managed to get through the level with 40000RUs for buildup of ion plats, mobile refineries, collectors plus replacement of all losses during the engagement. everything starting from a maxed out starting fleet (DN, 2BC, 5Dest, 7 Torp, 12 Flak, 2 Def Field, 12 Pulsars, 14 Bombers, no movers - they die too fast).

hint: break off the pulsars/bombers for sorties on the collectors that show up later during the engagement, better yet: put your ions so that they barely reach the forward left asteroid field - when they have nothing else to do they pick off stray collectors quite effectively.

[Candy Andy]

56 :sigh:

[antialias]

Candy Andy: It would be helpful if you could post what exactly your problem is
-starting forces/RUs including non-combat craft
-employed tactics (detailed, what ships, where, what settings, what control groups)
-on which wave you get beaten (by how many/what type of ships),
- which losses you take earlier
- upgrades you haven't finished
- anything else you do.

[Candy Andy]

to put it simply...
my fleet holds off well the first wave (4 frigs 15 dds 5 bc's) with the mines plats
then the next waves my fleet gets more and more hurt as I replenish the losses
My strik craft are in a constant neva endenig battle with the vay bomvies and both me and the vay send in reenforce but i can 't build fast nough
also my plats die fasta thatn I can build back
the problem is I can't hit the shipyards
when I try it I advance my cap ship formation to the shipyard and on the way it dies
Killing them with strik craft is imossible as by the time it has half damage a fleet of strik craft come and I am instantly killed
how DO U KILL THE SHIPYARDS?????
that is my prob.
now that I can't beat ms 12 can beat playa v cpu on ex. and can't play multi (some bug)
I guess hw 2 is goin in the closet unless I can beat it

[antialias]

how DO U KILL THE SHIPYARDS?????

If you have trouble replenishing losses just don't go for the shipyards. Its as simple as that. Throughout the engagement you should not loose many ships/plats. It seems to me you leave your bombers/pulsars to duke it out with enemy strikecraft to the last man (if you are using gunships/inties you are doing something wrong IMO) . That is not the way to go. In such a slugfest you are aiming for a war of attrition and the enemy has superiour building/resourcing facilities - you WILL lose this way.
If you go in for hits always go in with full numbers (14 bombers, 12 pulsars). If you send them piecemeal then they will get shreddered. Set yourself realistic targets (e.g. take out two BC-engines - pulsars can help with subsystem attacks, too. better yet, send them to kill those pesky command corvettes.) and then retreat and dock. Don't stick around to fight until you are dead!

Your strike craft are there for hit and fade attacks against heavies or for baiting enemy strike craft into running into your flak-wall. Dock your strike craft before you lose them! Never leave them fighting till the last man. If squads turn yellow its high time to hit the 'd' button (for ALL of your strike craft! if you leave some to fight while some dock they will get killed too quickly for you to get them out of the danger zone because the enemy is now concentrating all fire on fewer craft). Don't worry if there are still thousands of enemy strike craft left. You PRAY for situations like that. they will follow and maybe chew up one or two of your rearmost squads - before they hit your 'flak wall of instant death''. 14 flak frigs supported by 2 FCTs wipe out any number of strike craft instantly. Now you have elimintaed all strike craft for the next few minutes. dock, repair and then let your bombers and pulsars get mideval on his ass while his pants are down.

The trick is to take out the incomings strikecraft without taking one hit from them (mass flak frigs (14), 4 mobile refineries, some torpedo frigs (5) do that job raelly well)
I just found out that the 20 ion plats do a surprising good job of killing strike craft if under the influence of your two fire control towers from your BCs (you do have them, right? and they are right behind the plats and defense field frigs, right?)
If the influence does not extend far enough then bring one of your 4 carriers forward with an FCT

NEVER EVER fight forward of your ion plats with your big ships. Do not advance on the enemy. once your plats start shooting at him (and he is inefficiently shooting at your defense field protected plats) THEN bring in the big boys - not a second earlier. I know it is tempting to use your BCs and DN whenever possible, but they are too valuable to get beaten up in situations where you don't need them. as for destroyers - send them against enemy destroyer - but they usually get eaten by the 'escorting' battlecruisers, so they are not much use here.

replacements: what needs to be replaced (most important to least important - the ordering within each group indicates what should come first)
most important:
- ion platforms
- defense field frigs
- bombers
- flak frigates
- resource collectors (repair!)

less important:
- battlecruisers (you shouldn't loose them anyways)
- pulsar gunships
- probe


not important (only replace these if you do not have to replace anything else AND you have obscene amounts of RUs left):
- torpedo frigates
- mobile refineries
- anything else
- destroyers

thats as detailedas I can be. if that doesn't help am at my wits end.

[Candy Andy]

all right retryin based on advice
........
hope it works

[Candy Andy]

tell me if my fleet is good or wut should I change antialas
Fighters
10 bombies fully upped and imp. bombs
4 scouts with emp
Corvs
6 gunships fully upped
6 pulses fully upped
10 movers
Frigs
12 flaks fully upped
3 torps fully upped
4 mariners
2 ddfs to protect plats
Caps
5 dd's fully upped
2 bc's with fire tower fully uppped
2 carriers 1 for makin strik craft other for plats and frigs
my ms will be makin dd's and my 'yard will be makin bc's
Non combat
4 distortion probes (for viewing)
20 collectors (repairs)
5 refineries (defense)
Also tell me if my tactics r good

I will have 2 groups of 10 ion plats in a flank each protected by a dff
my mariners will also be there in case I need 2 salvage
behind that my frig line 12 flaks 3 torps on passive sso they don't move forward
and slightly behind that my refineries
behind that my cap ship armada also on passive so they don't rush ahead of the plats
on my xtreme flank I will hve my strik raft group 10 bombs 4 scouts 12 vettes and 10 movers
as soon as the first vaygr wave arrives I will send them off to kill
Is this a good plan or do I need 2 change somethin?

[Hotice]

It took me five tries to get through mission 12. I rebuilt my fleet in mission 11.

Fleet list:
14 bombers
12 Gunship corvettes.
20 Ion cannon frigates (game keep crashing with 21 frigs for some reason)
2 Battle Cruisers
2 Carriers
1 Shipyard
20 RCs
10 Movers
4 refineries

I retired 5 destroyers 2 marine frigates and 2 defense field frigates in mission 11.

Once in mission 12, pause the game right after the game auto saved. Group the 20 Ion cannon frigates together, use waypoint to create path along the right side of edge and end at the upper right hand side around 1 o'clock. Move all 20 RC and 2 refineries to the resource field to the mid left ahead of the fleet starting point. Move shipyard next to MS, 2 BCs(1 on each side of DN) should be in front of the MS and shipyard. 2 carriers 1 on each side of MS and Shipyard. Remember to research the Fire Control tower. Carriers, MS and Shipyard should all be able to make Ion platform. Make all 4 ships start building 5 Ion Platforms each. Group Gunships, Bombers and Movers together assign as group 1. Then select Bombers and Movers as group 2. Gunship as group 3. 2 BCs and 1 DN as group 4. 20 RC as group 5.

Now un-pause the game move group 1 in front of resource field awaiting for the first wave of fighter attack. It wouldn't be long before 20 RCs finish the resource field. Once they are done assign the 20 RC on repair duty and follow the DN. By this time, all 20 Ion platformes should be done. Move those Ion platforms in between the BC group and MS group. The 4 mobile refineries should guard the shipyard.

Wait for the first wave of destroyers attack, use group 1 to clear all fighters/corvettes/frigates. Focus bomers and movers on 1 ship at time. It wouldn't be long before the first waver of destroyer attack went down. Dock and fix all damage fighters/corvettes. The second wave of enermy fighter/frigates attack should come. Keep fixing all the damage ships let Ion platforms to kill those incoming small ships. Once this wave of attack is gone. Move those 20 Ion Cannon frigates to attack enermy shipyard near the resource field at upper right hand of the map. They can take the shipyard out easily. Once they've done it, recall them back to base asap even if they are followed by fighters. Once they are back, fix them as much as you can. Send out group 1 search enermy BC, disable their missile and engine sub-systems then recall group back to base. Focus your BC and DN to kill destroyers, but don't let them go far. Dock group 1, rebuild to full strength and get ready for the BCs. Use group 1 take out missle sub-systems but not the engine. Go back to base and pull the BS into your base. Focus your BC/DN/Ion Platform fire on one ship at time. After you finish the BCs and their escorts. Group all the bombers/gunship/mover/BC/Ion cannon frig/DN into one group and assign Fighter Screen formation. Head toward the center slowly. You will meet some defensive fire, just use gunship/bombers/movers to clear the path. Make sure keep the Fighter Screen formation so all the ships are moving at same speed. Once the enermy carrier is in sight, order gunship/bomber/movers to attack. Carrier should be dead in just a few sec. the rest of the group now should be focus on the flagship near by. Once the flagship gates away, build a Marine frigate to take over the station. Make sure to keep gunship/movers near the station to take care the left over fighters.

The key is to move the entire attack fleet as whole, never fight too far away from base until the shipyard at upper right hand position is killed. keep pull the enermy ships back to your base and kill them. Keep repair your attack ships.

[Candy Andy]

I was talkin to antialias!!!!!!!!!!!
I only trustin him cuz with his strat I got further then ever and actually retrvieved Soban
then wen I came 2 makaan his 2 bc escorts blew up my naught
all your other strats suked
come on Antialias I need u
by the way kid I've tried it 56 times already with no victory

[antialias]

ok, here goes - this is the fleet I would favour (others may like other setups, but this fleet got me through with a total of 40000RUs used during the mission):
Note: upgrades - always upgarde everything you can ASAP.
- scrap the scouts and build more bombers (14) (control group 1)
- Corvs: go for full pulsars(12) (control group 2). you have more than enough fighter cover with the flaks/torps. gunships are only good if you fight the strike craft forward of your defense installation and that is suicide. gunships are also too slow in taking out bomber wings. enemy bombers will usually go for your BC subsystems. one pass is enough - your gunships won't do much until the enemy has doen his first pass. to make it short: they are a waste.
also pulsars are good later when many BCs show up. bombers take out subsystems on one, pulsars on another (or both on one to make it go really fast)
-movers: they die too fast since they are only one ship per squad they would need replacement all the time (which can only come from the MS at that) - don't bother with them.
12 flaks: good, I'd go with more. put one or two carriers with FCT in the area
4 marines: no - scrap these and build 2 more flaks and 2 more torp frigs. there is no real opportunity to capture stuff in the early engagements and the anti-SC fire power you are missing will hurt you. you can always scrap one or two at the end to build a marine frigate for the rescue. flaks and torps go in control group 3.
dd,bc,dn: those are ok. DDs in control group 4, BCs and DN in group 5. DDs should be there to act as a damage sponge for your fragile flaks (when not in use park flaks/torps behind the DDs)
carriers: enter the mission with 4 carriers if you can. you don't need to up all of them. just make sure they all have platform, and frigate modules. two of them (at least) should have fighter/corvette modules.
probes: normal probes work well too - you should always be fully aware of everything up to the resource field with the enemy plats in front of you (at least!). if your probe gets destroyed replace them ASAP. I usually have on carrier build 10 probes for later use right after the initial platform buildup. put one probes to the right and left too.
via probes check for easy hit and run targets that can be dealt with before the enemy arrives: examples:
1) a group of BCs show up? send in your craft to disable the engines on half of them (rounded down, an target the ones at the rear!) and then retreat. so now there will be some arriving first and some stragglers which you can mop up at your leisure)
2) one or 2 command corvettes sighted? a perfect hit and run for your pulsars (this is a must!)
3)a mixed group of BCs, DDs and assault frigs? go in with all strike craft to take out the assault frigs first (make several hit and runs if there are many - repair in between). after that kill the engines of the BCs. result: the DDs show up first and get eaten by your plats /BCs/DDs. when the BCs show up the bombers can go for subsystems (missile/engine) and leave the rest for the big boys/plats

do not build DDs at your MS. DDs really don't cut it in this mission (and they tie up your production facility too long)
also you should bring in DDs only after the engagement has begun. if you do that you will not lose them (I lost a total of one DD last time I played because I stupidly let it run forward)
shipyard: don't lose your BCs. if they move forward and engage during heated battle be not afraid to turn them around and move them back once they reach yellow to get healed. usually this will be towards the end of the wave so the rest of your forces will finish them off and you can heal. healing is always better than rebuilding! this goes for strike craft as well as BCs.
collectors/refinersies - good. collectors in group 10
preservation of your forces is everything here.

building: you can queue up some ships although you have hit the cap (I always have my shipyard queued up with collectors after the initial ion plat build phase, so that I don't constantly have to monitor their numbers. Otherwise I might forget to build them)

ion plats (control group 6). put all forward (and slightly to the left) of your BCs in ONE group (build 20 then select all and move them there in one go, put them on aggressive). ion plats have fantastically long range. there is no need to split them. put the 2 DFs right behind them so that all plats are within both protective spheres (control group 6 and 7). this way the time they are protected is doubled because you can now alternate the DFs. if you alternate the shield-up time effectively then the unprotected time is minimal (usually the enemy wave is almost destroyed when the second shield runs out and the first one will be ready again in seconds . put your BCs behind the plats or as close as you can (so they too get partially protected by the DFs). when rebuilding lost plats take care to move them close to the others (pause to get this right - do not klick on an established plat -that moves it close, but not close enough- but use the M-key and manual movement)


also focus fire is greatly increased because all plats are also within the FCTs from both BCs. and 20 plats can take down an enemy BC quite effectively.
use the pause key often - especially when ordering the Dfs

I usually have my frigs on the side of the destroyers (slightly behind). If the enemy only comes in with strike craft I take command of my flaks/torps (one group) to meet them on a level with the ion plats...afterwards (or if BC/DDs show up) I immediately retreat them - don't worry, they keep firing while they do that. and in a pinch your pulsars can help out with anti fighter work. within an FCT field they are quite ffective


phew...another long post...sorry 'bout that

ah, one more thing: do not leave your defensive position until makaan shows up there. he will send many collectors your way - use your pulsars to kill them.
he will come with 2 BCs (ignore his ship at first, its not heavily armed). when they arrive get rid of the BCs first. move forward only after that has happened and you have forced him to disengage! then scrap one bomber and build a scout (for sensor ping, to see if there are any more surprises lurking on the board)
scrap one frig to build a marine frig, and scrap another frig, because if you have 21 frigs soban will not exit the station (he counts against your unit cap)

[Hotice]

Just played the mission again after finished the whole game. I really like this mission a lot. This time my fleet is pretty much the same as last time but replaced Ion cannon frigates with Torp frigates. The result is a little better after I killed the shipyard by sneaking to it's location from far right edge. Last time I finished the mission with 12 out of 20 frigates left. This time I lost only 2 frigates, 3 Ion platforms, about 6 bombers, 2 gunships, and around 5 RCs. Started the mission with about 61k RUs and finished the mission with 152k RUs and a full fleet. Destroyers are kind of pointless after mission 6. They are not fast enough, armored enough and most importantly armed enough to deal with enermy ships in the other half of the game. Flak frigates are nice but 20 Ion Platforms, 4 refineries, 2 carriers, MS can pretty much take care of the small ships. Most importantly, small attacking crafts should be delt long before they get to your base. Always fly Gunship/bombers/movers around the edge of your base to screen out fighters/bombers. Kill as many as you can and your base defense can deal with the rest. I think the key to this mission is take out the shipyard at upper right hand corner. Take it out with frigates after second wave of enermy attack. Don't use bombers to do it, you need them to defend the base.

[Candy Andy]

all right thx...
...................but the next time I get to play will be friday so I got some time to write this down on a sheet of paper and do a drawin of the strat
thx

[dbrower]

Originally posted by Hotice
Destroyers are kind of pointless after mission 6. They are not fast enough, armored enough and most importantly armed enough to deal with enermy ships in the other half of the game.

Mostly agree, except that they are handy at balcora gate, if you can get them down to the bottom attackers fast enough. This works well if you have the hyper BC from M11.

-dB

[Candy Andy]

they provide good distractions for bc's

[Candy Andy]

All right i hve it saved halfway thru
I hit one of their shipyards bad and blew the one on the right to smithereens
but antialias my plats always get hit by bc trin. cannon
anyway 2 prevent this?

[antialias]

hit the engines on the BCs. as long as the engine is down they cannot turn and take out more plats.

I don't think defense fields are proof against trinity cannons though.

well, platforms are cheap and quick to rebuild so don't worry too much about it. better he is wasting trinity fire on your plats than on anything else.

[Candy Andy]

I can't semm to hit the midle shipyard long enuff to do any severe damage (mayb i can do 1/4 damage but its repaired by da time I get back
any solutions?

[Candy Andy]

I can't semm to hit the midle shipyard long enuff to do any severe damage (mayb i can do 1/4 damage but its repaired by da time I get back)
any solutions?

[Candy Andy]

dejavu 2 posts

[antialias]

well, my solution is the same as always:

DON'T HIT ANY SHIPYARDS UNTIL THE ENEMY HAS RUN OUT OF RESOURCES.

once they stop producing, and makaan has shown up at your defensive line you can just waltz in with your heavies and pick off the plats/shipyards.
you know they are out of resources once they start sending resourcers towards the field of derbris in front of you (or the small patch of resources to your left). pick them off and the enemy will not be able to build anything else anymore.

the shipyards are NOT really your major problems in this mission. if you ping the map at the very beginning of the mission you notice that the big BC waves are already on the map. the shipyards just produce some fizzly stuff wich you should have no problem with. (going after them is a waste of RUs in my opinion, as you tend to lose craft in the attacks. you also weaken your defensive position substantially by drawing off frigs/bombers).

keep everything together and you should be fine.

[Hot Soup]

Originally posted by antialias


keep everything together and you should be fine.

Indeed. Just pick your defensive position and keep it. Replace losses continously ... but you don't really need to bother with the yards.

[Artimus]

Always keep your Mothership's, Shipyard's, and carrier's build ques full. Even once you hit your fleet max, tell them to build more. This way, when something get's destroyed, you will have the construction on the replacement begin immediatly.

You can also set your manufacturing ship's rally points at your front line. That way when a ship is completed, it will head right to the front line.

[Candy Andy]

THEY ALREDY R PICKIN UP DEBRIS!
well like 2 are
but the rest will come

[Candy Andy]

the collectors r chargin for my resources
we're both in a drain
I got like 2000 left
look I got a problem
both of us have a badly dam. fleet
neither wants to attack
If i move in without my plats I will die in a matter of secs
And I can't find the 3rd shipyard on the left
WHERE IS IT?

[Hotice]

If you really only got 2000 RUs left, then it is best to replay the mission again. You wouldn't have enough to deal with mission 13 stuff.

Get prepared in mission 11. Retire those destroyers and build like 18 Ion Cannon frigates group them. Build full 15 squads of bombers and 12 gunships. Once in mission 12, build Ion Plat at base. Start to build 2 BCs asap. Send in the frigates from right side of edge kill that shipyard at upper right hand corner. Hold your bombers and gunships near your base to kill the incoming forces. Replace the lost units as you go. Once the BCs are built, hold them at your base. Once the second wave of destroyer/bc attacked you. Repair all your damage ships and move BCs and bombers/gunships together at same speed to attack the center. The game is over once you got the center cleared.

There is one shipyard at upper right hand corner, one carrier at center, the third one is behind to the left of station near the resource field. The flagship also can produce ships.

[antialias]

dont worry if you have no RUs left, the debris field should get you about 50000 RUs worth. thats plenty for the rest of the missions (if you don't waste your forces)

now, you should definitely prohibit the comp fom taking those debris pieces away from you! (bombers/pulsars do a good job at this. torpedo frigates are even better, but they only work if no threatening BC/DD is around. plats also work well. focus fire them on incoming resourcers.). just keep killing the resourcers until none come in anymore. then you can start resourcing and rebuilding your strength. the rest of the level should be no problem (no losses). just be careful and scout ahead (one scout or probes). there are a BC and some DDs near the station you are supposed to capture, and a couple of plat groups around the map.
. keep your frigates back/on a tight leash or you will needlessly sacrifice them!

kill the plat groups with BC/DN/DDs, soften up the BC/DD group with bombers/pulsars before killing them with your BCs and DN. reapir everything to top health first!

since the enemy is does not have any resorces anymore you can really ignore any shipyards that are left - they stop building. they are not necessary for victory.

if you seem to be running out of RUs DURING the engagement send 3 or 4 of your resourcers to collect a few choice items. every BC that you destroyed leaves among its debris one piece that is worth more than 1000 RUs. grab a couple of those (pause to search for them and direct your collectors manually. do not use the 'h' key). happened to me too the first time through. don't let your resourcers continue the resourcing operation after that! they will just go and grab stuff that is worth 20RUs and be easy targets for the enemy while they do that. put them back on repair duty. only if you are really sure that nobody is coming anymore let them harvest the rest (build one scout and ping the board! if there is just the one group near the station left then you can go.)

[Candy Andy]

whoo!!!!! I beat it!!!!!!
thanks Antiaalias!!!!!!

[antialias]

[Candy Andy]

aw man ms 13 looks 10x harder

[Diddly_Kadeshi9]

I've gone through most of this post, and I was wondering if anyone had a definitive answer on WHAT TO RETIRE in mission 11 and WHAT TO BRING to mission 12. I tried retiring all of my frigates, but that didn't seem to turn out very well.....I tried to retire all of the destroyers and, while it scaled down the total amount of destroyers and BC's, I still had TOO LITTLE to win. In the end I lost my dreadnaught and I always lose that way.
I tried to play without the dreadnaught and it turned out that, against four battlecrusiers, I did need it, but I lost anyways.
Help, anyone?

[ilia1986]

1. Install the patch if you dont have it.
2. in M011 make everything maxed.
3. Win.

...worked 4 me t'least.

[Diddly_Kadeshi9]

where can I get the patch?

[farsight]

CLick the "CHECK FOR UPDATES" button in the MAIN MENU.

It's so easy, it's hard to overlook it.

[spetznaz]

did anyone maxed in mission 11? i did not... those bloddy $&!@!& destroyed ALL my destroyers and a bloddy SHIPYARD!!! THOSE VAYGR BAST$#TS

[dbrower]

I played this through a few times recently, with and without a hyper-BC, and came to the same conclusion -- Speed Kills.

What seemed to work best was an attach with destroyers and frigates on the
platform surrounded resource patch, followed shortly by bomber/corvette attach on the closest carrier and shipyard. This is helped IMMENSELY if
you move all your carriers and the heavies that way immediately. They will
be late arriving, but replenishment of bombers/vettes will let you keep the pressure up. The only thing to worry about is the 2 destroyer 4 heavy missile frigate probe towards the banana.

What I found is that if you move quickly enough, none of the BCs will have time to move forward. You can kill everything and never lose the front section. You can then let your heavies catch up and mop up.

If you move slowly, and/or try to replenish strike craft from a distance, you cannot do enough damage fast enough to prevent everything from moving forward to attack you.

cheers,
-dB

[sapi]

i really dont get what everybody is finding hard in this mission

i completed it 2nd try

all u have to do is send your entire fleet straight at the station (in formation of course).

leave the dreadnaut back to deal with vagyr reinforcements, and just blast through their fleet.

speed is essential, otherwise their bc numbers will double....

[antialias]

That works post patch quite well. You can get one of the shipyards that is stationed at the forward resource patches easily and swerving a bit to the right or left (use sensor ping) one of the two behind the command station. after that it's just mop-up. kiling resourcers on sight goes a long way towards curtailing the vaygr production capabilities.

defence field frigates protecting DDs, BCs and DN along with some ion plats make short work of the hordes of assault frigates approaching without you taking any losses. don't forget to move your MS and the shipyard -as best you can- along with the fleet and keep a look out for a small strike group trying to sneak up on them from the right (usually a few frigates 4DDs and a BC). let bombers deal with that. use drones for recon!

I almost wish they'd have left it the way it was pre patch. The fireworks of 20+ enemy BCs and 30+ enemy destroyers and the resulting debris field was soooo pretty

[Sav-T]

This is the first mission ive shared my tactic as its the first one i didnt finish on my first go.
Well like everyone has said, this mission can be the biggest **** **** if you maxed out from the mission earlier. I always have my fleet at its strongest to deal with what ever comes around, in this case it isnt working. This is the first mission i had to play more than once, i think playing without a patch has something to do with the difficulty but its more of this "vagry must have a 10 to 1 ratio against u at all times* script, its stupid and ridiculous.
Anyways IF u have a max fleet, u dont need to retire or scuttle everything, just micromanage like a nut, i used my dreadnaught as the key to everything, people are affraid of it being destroyed but dont be..... it has more hp then the mothership, more attack then a battle crusier and more armour than it too. It can go into the thick of the battle and come out with some cosmetic damage. 2 BC's with the Dreadnaught and the 8 TF's guarding the 5 destroyers, i went straight into the initial force and nailed the enemy BC's one by one.....the fire power from this fleet is significant enough to destroy all the ships thrown at you for the first 10 mins since Makaans arrival, but its slowly gonna take damage and lose a ship here or there.....continue to plow through the centre, nailing the larger ships, focusing your firepower destroys a BC without it getting more than the missile volley off at one of ur ships, might kill a frigate here or there, fighters die awefully quickly to BC's and Torps. I did keep an alround fleet of frigates, not focusing on 20 of one type, i had 6 ions that i brought in as i got closer to the station, i didnt use any fighters or corvettes, i didnt find the need after battling this way. Micromanaging with Pause is good here, u can always keep ur firepower on the strongest ships, keep an eye on health bars and look for the most danagerous attacking ships. Once u get to the station, u can bring ur mothership forth to the station as any enemy deffenders would be cleared out of the way by ur fleet, once u get there u should have a problem dealing with Makaan and his elite guard.
You do want to take out the shipyard early because it can replace any BC's or lost destroyers which will slow u down if it attacks ur open carriers, ship yard or MS.

[j_ileto]

In M11 max out your production capability. Build extra carriers and fit them out to produce all types of units they can produce. And don't forget to max out your resource collectors too. Use them to repair your ships while in battle in M12. Remember, if you include resource collectors in a strike group, they automatically repair ships within the group.

While still in M11, max out on movers as well. Combine them with your bombers in M12. Gives the Vgr something else to worry about other than your bombers.

Use gun platforms to support your advance. Ion plats are too expensive to build. Build the plats in waves. Retire those that no longer have targets in range and replace them with new ones as your fleet advances.

Use marine frigs to board cap ships behind the Vgr advance and distract the Vgr. While they are busy turning to bring their guns to bear, that's less firepower concentrated on your advancing fleet.

And move your MS, SY and carriers with your fleet. Keep them far enough behind your advance so that the platforms you produce do not seek out targets and end up being stuck behind your fleet.

While in battle, try to dock strike craft that are at least 2/3 in strength. Any lower and they probably are less likely to survive the trip back to the dock, and if they do, the repair times are longer. The objective is to keep your effective firepower at maximum levels. No point have 5 squadrons each having 1 craft only.