Patch 2.200 discussion thread - RABBLERABBLERABBLE!

[Moe]

There has been an issue with the latest patch. This thread is where you can discuss it.

BUT FIRST!

Read this.

A lot of you will have wasted time patching to the wrong versions, others will be impatiently waiting for the delayed patch. This is frustrating, we get it, and we'd like to be playing the game just as much as you do.

We're not going to surpress your feedback. Having said that, we're not the complaints department, and if you feel that you must act like a jackass your posts will be deleted and you will be removed from this thread. You're entitled to your opinion, you're not entitled to come here and flame people left right and center. Criticism is fine, flaming is not. Keep it civil please guys, and for the love of god don't start a Relic fanbois vs Relic haters flamefest or you will all be severely beaten with a big stick.

Remember, if you have to reinstall stuff go here for tips on how to avoid downloading gigabytes worth of patch files and other useful hints.

[SalvieSoldier]

ok cool. So im guessing the patch for us waiting is not out yet? Any ETA?

[Ap0k]

The only information is what's been posted in the sticky at the minute. I'm sure Buggo will update when she can say something more solid on the matter. For now though, the situation seems to be that it's running 2.103 until further notice.

[drChengele]

Didn't Buggo say that there is no need to reinstall if you can just sit tight and wait it off for a day or so?

I expressed my criticism already in a thread yesterday but it was closed (because it was apparently a rant, though I doubt it is possible to formulate a topic about a company's unprofessionalism in a more civil manner). So I will just direct you there for my opinion. It is nice to see Relic are working their ass off to fix the problem, but then, they are the ones who created the problem in the first place.

[Greveouse]

So i guess it's not out today?

And are they still tryin' to figure out what the problem is? Is it with the installation still, or is it some tchwecked out thing thats been in the system for years and years.. like the "Ghost in the machine"?

[iron_paw]

I wonder what the FG42 nerf will do for the game...I now have to remember to stand in light or no cover instead of heavy cover????

burst rate reduced from 8 to 7...whats the in game impact?

[Moe]

And are they still tryin' to figure out what the problem is? Is it with the installation still, or is it some tchwecked out thing thats been in the system for years and years.. like the "Ghost in the machine"?

Seriously all the info we have is linked from the first post.

[Dboz]

So lets just pretend we lost our CD or one of my friends lost it; are we screwed if we have already installed the patch? Or can we just chill and the Relic Team will make it so we dont need to reinstall the game?

[DribbleSack]

So what went wrong this time? Seems strange to withdraw the patch altogether. I though Relic had put in place a hot fix process to deal with any game breaking bugs that slipped through the QA process. The recall would suggest there was something even more fundamental amiss with the initial 2.20 patch.

In isolation, this incident is embarrasing for Relic and THQ and frustrating for their customers. But this is the latest in a string of foul ups. Things go wrong from time to time, of course. But in the case of CoH/OF it seems to be every time. Confidence in Relic/THQ's support of the game has been at an all time low and this latest incident will only serve to reinforce those concerns.

And whilst commendable, all of the effort being put in to 'fix things' is just going to get us back to square one. This will mean less time to fix other bugs and/or work on enhancements.

[Trucker]

You guys should release the patch and then fix it later with a hotfix. All you need to do is make sure that the installer works.

[Sarcasm]

I thought the only issue with the patch was it didn't auto-install? That seems like a very minor problem for this huge withdraw-and-reinstall response.

[Demonic Spoon]

So lets just pretend we lost our CD or one of my friends lost it; are we screwed if we have already installed the patch? Or can we just chill and the Relic Team will make it so we dont need to reinstall the game?

1) Buggo said that you wont have to reinstall if you just wait for the fixed patch

2) I'll PM you info on how you can retrieve your CD key from your hard drive.

[scoiatollo]

1) Buggo said that you wont have to reinstall if you just wait for the fixed patch

Wrong! She said it should work, not that it will work!

And btw: YAAAAY...!!! I was right, something more serious is fucked up than the installer....

*going back to the meaningless Rabbler state*

ps.: where is Mr Marsh if you need something fixed (or MacGuyver^^)

[Ap0k]

It should be noted, that as far as I'm aware, the information in the new sticky overrides anything said previously on the matter. Obviously there have been developments that Buggo isn't able to give us the specifics of, so the recommendation is that people uninstall/reinstall/patch to 2.103 until further information is available.

I, personally, think it would be a bit silly to base your decision on the matter on what is essentially old news by now.

If you want to be safe, uninstall/reinstall/patch to 2.103. If you want to risk it, feel free to hang in there at 2.200 in the hope that it'll be compatible with whatever version the next patch is, but don't go all ranty if holding out on 2.200 turns out to be completely the wrong course of action.

In short, reinstall and patch. It's the most sensible thing to do.

[Phazon]

I thought the only issue with the patch was it didn't auto-install? That seems like a very minor problem for this huge withdraw-and-reinstall response.

In actual fact, there are at least 3 other problems from what I've read! All are game-breakers.

1) Heroic charge applies a permanent slow-down to your units after it ends. This is only meant to be temporary.

2) Vampire halftrack appears to steal all resources from another player that they are earning from all their sectors (excluding HQ sector), rather than just the sector the vampire half-track is set-up in.

3) Double-AT ability for the Panzer Elite Tank Buster doctrine appears to be broken, 2 Panzerschrecks are not issued.

There is also a few other issues, the main one I heard of was appearently they didn't even change the Volks rifle (as was mentioned in the patch notes). This is probably the second or third time something like this has happened.

I am only restating what I have read, it may or may not be true but the community over at GR is normally spot on in regards to these sorts of things.

[Demonic Spoon]

2) Vampire halftrack appears to steal all resources from another player that they are earning from all their sectors (excluding HQ sector), rather than just the sector the vampire half-track is set-up in.

it steals resources from the sector it's in and denies the opposition resources from all points that go through that point to get back to the HQ. This is how it's always worked.

[Arcinatus]

ok so just to clarify, the moderators (or whoever does this, my apologies) will post a thread telling is when we can safely download the new patch within the next couple days? just wondering, i havn't downloaded it yet, just wanna be safe. thanks

[lordkosc]

Ok, so time to do a complete reinstall, and go back to 2.103... umm yay...

At least there is clarification !

[Sarcasm]

1) Heroic charge applies a permanent slow-down to your units after it ends. This is only meant to be temporary.

2) Vampire halftrack appears to steal all resources from another player that they are earning from all their sectors (excluding HQ sector), rather than just the sector the vampire half-track is set-up in.

3) Double-AT ability for the Panzer Elite Tank Buster doctrine appears to be broken, 2 Panzerschrecks are not issued.

Oh jinkies. Yeah...that might be worth withdrawing a patch over. I...I....just can't imagine how all this was overlooked. Impressive.

[plumpman]

This would be fine and all except for those of us that don't have their discs with them.

I'm in college and therefore have left my disc at home since I rarely need it, now I can't reinstall and can't play SP without my disc. Hopefully they fix the current 2.200 Patch for those of us that applied it already!

[General_Muss]

So if i haven't downloaded the latest patch at all does it mean i can still play CoH:OF until the fixed patch is released?

Or no one can play?

[Weavern]

If your current version of CoH:OF is 2.103 then you can play OF as much as you want. Your game will still connect to reliconline.

If you downloaded and installed 2.200 then you CANT connect to RO, and you must hope against hope that your version will work if they release a new 2.200. Going by buggo's new post you're best off reinstalling to 2.103 rather then wait at 2.200.

[WNxGhazghkull]

2) Vampire halftrack appears to steal all resources from another player that they are earning from all their sectors (excluding HQ sector), rather than just the sector the vampire half-track is set-up in.

It works as intended if lets say if you place it in HQ sector then you will denie the enemy hes total income of munitions and fuel as every sector needs 2 go past hq sector 2 give the resources. but as its a SP and not a mun or fuel point you wont steal the resource only denie it. and from the other hand if you place it in a high munition point then you will steal the +16 mun or even more if its a observation post built on it + that you denie the enemy all income from other sectors that goes past that sector so say that there is 1 mun and 2 fuel points that have the shortest way back 2 the hq past the high mun point then it not only steal the resources from that point but also denie the enemy the income from the 2 fuel points and the other mun point.

[0mar]

If I submitted work that was as sloppy as Relic's, I'd be looking for a job every week. I don't even see how this patch got past QA and was released to the public, it's obviously very broken and buggy. Again, for the 6th or 7th time, these aren't obscure bugs, but very, very obvious bugs.

Cut it anyway you want, but on the whole, this 2.2 business has been a complete fiasco. Why is it that a group of "amateurs" (ie Hero/Sturm and the rest of the BattleTest team) can put out 2-3 patches a month, fairly bug-free and result in a very balanced game while Relic can't even put out a decent patch in the entire history of CoH? If anything, the situation should be reversed. Is it that the Relic team doesn't understand post-retail support or that Hero/Sturm are absolute coding geniuses?

As a whole, I think this is a huge blow to Relic and their reputation.

[Brendan]

when will 2.200 be released?

[tuffy!]

1) Heroic charge applies a permanent slow-down to your units after it ends. This is only meant to be temporary.

2) Vampire halftrack appears to steal all resources from another player that they are earning from all their sectors (excluding HQ sector), rather than just the sector the vampire half-track is set-up in.

3) Double-AT ability for the Panzer Elite Tank Buster doctrine appears to be broken, 2 Panzerschrecks are not issued.

There is also a few other issues, the main one I heard of was appearently they didn't even change the Volks rifle (as was mentioned in the patch notes). This is probably the second or third time something like this has happened.

I am only restating what I have read, it may or may not be true but the community over at GR is normally spot on in regards to these sorts of things.

i really do hope they take these few days to fix those and when they release 2.2 hopefully by friday the patch will be (almost) bug free.


I am beginning to suspect that the relic "patch team" is just 1 new guy straight out of college or maybe even an intern.

[tatatank]

i doubt those fixes will be included.


This is why i have said we need a test server, everyone was like we dont need one. Well i now hope you all eat your words.

[Ace651]

I don't see why the permenant movement slow after heroic charge is a bad thing.

But seriously, this is a good example of why Steam is so great.
1: Delete local content.
2: Install.
3: ???
4: Profit.

-cm

[iNFERNO]

Good decision in my opinion. I would rather wait a few days more then having issues in the released patch.

Thanks for the fast information Buggo!

[DatonKallandor]

Cut it anyway you want, but on the whole, this 2.2 business has been a complete fiasco. Why is it that a group of "amateurs" (ie Hero/Sturm and the rest of the BattleTest team) can put out 2-3 patches a month, fairly bug-free and result in a very balanced game while Relic can't even put out a decent patch in the entire history of CoH? If anything, the situation should be reversed. Is it that the Relic team doesn't understand post-retail support or that Hero/Sturm are absolute coding geniuses?

Those amateurs don't have enough testers to even show whether or not their stuff has bugs or balance issues. I can make a private mod and play it with 5 people as well and then claim that it's balanced. What that claim, and their claim, would be is unfounded.

[Mikkow]

I'm also very pleased that the patch is being reworked to iron out some more serious bugs found, etc. Quality prevails! What's a week or so compared to months of having to play what could be bugged otherwise?

[HonestJohnny]

I wonder if the problems with the patch 2.200 have anything to do with this - LINK HERE

[nuttyjawa]

^^^ that cant be true... can it?

[lordkosc]

Maybe , maybe not, in the buisness would, ethics are only upheld when you know you could get caught doing the wrong thing...

[iaguz]

It did sound like a load of horseshite to me, but it would be scary if it were true.

[HonestJohnny]

I hope it is not true. If it is then I am sorry for Relic. If you work hard on a project then someone screws up your work, then its not funny any more. CoH is a great game. I just hope that the competition is not trying to kill it in a dishonest way.

EDIT

If there is any truth to the above then I feel that Relic deserves our support and patience in fixing the problems with patch 2.200.

[Ballist1x]

ya i want them to release when its good and ready but just bear in mind im sat @ home on a week off work constantly refreshing the page hoping it gets sorted sooner!

[dreddnott]

HonestJohnny: I guess you missed the memo, that whole topic was a joke created to pass the time.

[HonestJohnny]

Well, as I said I did not believe the story on GameReplays from the start (I said I hope it is not true). The post on GameReplays might be a joke but perhaps the reason for the problems with patch 2.200 result form someone's actions to sabotage the game. I don't believe that Relic as a company wants to play games with us customers and intentionally deliver us a bad patch.

I am just trying to find some logical explanation for the problems with the patch. It is a fact that the Relic team is not sure what causes the problems as one day they say that people should wait after applying patch 2.200 and on another day they say that it is necessary to reinstall the game.

[diLuca]

@omar:
a.)community modders are dedicated cause they love the game
b.)relic balance team is (somehow atm) dedicated cause they love to get their salary

"a > b" cause "love > money"

its like back when world of warcraft was in development...blizzard hired longtime die hard everquest-players back the day...that was a good idea ...

[Catastrofizum]

I wonder if the problems with the patch 2.200 have anything to do with this - LINK HERE

This was a gullibility test essentially. If you took a nibble at this than you definitely need to be more skeptical about what you read. Is plays on peoples frustrations with Relic "Online" and the atrocious quality control displayed by Relic with OF. Relic is just a blip on the revenue radar in video gaming - hardly worthy of this espionage drama. Besides, I don't think anyone could do a better job than Relic has done with OF of alienating their customers!



Here's my take on the state of affairs with OF - I will add here that I have some experience as a programmer in the games industry. A bug is reported, it eventually gets assigned to a programmer (of course a content bug would probably require an artist instead of a programmer) by their supervisor, the programmer reproduces it (hopefully) and than fixes the problem and makes a new build of the game. The bug is marked "fixed" in the bug database - this bug's record also has details of how the problems was fixed, and what build number contains the fix. Next stop QA - the bug record pops up in the QA dude's bug database(usually the person that first identified/reported the bug) as being reassigned to them to 'verify the fix'. They download from the company server the appropriate build number and attempt to reproduce the bug - if they can it's 'fix denied' and we go back a step or else it's given the green light and that bug is put in the morgue. A new external build might be made by the lead programmer at some stage (the basis for a new patch!) and this will have a list of bug fixes associated with it (the changelist). As you can see, it's not rocket science...

Probably a programmer created the bug but the fault here is the QA department. Their job, the reason the games developer like them to turn up to work, is so they can spot the 'stupid shit'. What's exactly wrong with Relic's QA process will probably remain speculation in this thread unless we have some solid, well informed and up to date information about what the hell is really going on there. Personally I suspect it's the fact that (according to Uberjumper) none of the QA is 'in house'. Relic/THQ is essentially one entity but apparently THQ (the publisher) does the QA on mass for it's developer's. This is very similar to the structure I experience on one major title I was on. The worst part in my own experience was that our publisher was 12 hours difference to us on time zone meaning that verbal communication was very difficult and if you or them needed clarification on something it would take a full day, sometimes more, to progress that task. It was horribly inefficient and griped about but at the end of the day, generally bugs did not leave the database until they were genuinely fixed (of course a small number of bugs slip though, sometimes new ones get created when another is fixed! ). The was a small amount of QA actually in our studio and this was a godsend - the speed with which you can nail down any issues was pure joy and this definitely this was the much more efficient and high quality element of our QA department (whether it was cost efficient I don't know). I imagine Relic being in Canada would mean that the time zone issue is not there (assuming THQ QA is in the USA) but there is still no substitute for jumping onto your feet and walking 5m to have a face to face with the person that reported the bug.

However, as previously alluded to, the problem is not strictly the efficiency of the system so much as the fact that unfixed bugs are just walking out the Relic door like never before recently. Some posters suggested a bug to do with Heroic Charge - i think it previously didn't always enter a fatigue state but now it does so permanently. I can't profess to state this as certain without having sighted the relevant code but I am fairly confident this is the kind of bug that would be considered a no brainer. Somewhere in the code a state changes (the LT no longer is in Heroic Charge mode), this has to signal to the squads that were affected they should now enter a fatigued state. A timer would run down on this and they pop out of it and back to normal! Technically the initial bug is fixed - no longer is there a problem with Heroic Charge sometimes not entering the fatigue state because now it always does, PERMANENTLY. I'm disappointed a programmer would mess this up and they probably deserve a small ribbing from their boss courtesy of QA picking up the new bug. What's astonishing is that QA didn't observe the new bug in this process (generally it's not just of case of putting the blinkers on and verifying a fix but rather checking that the particular feature 'works as it should'). The proximity of the two bugs clearly demonstrates a lack of attention to detail and professionalism on behalf of QA. Relic/THQ, you really, really need to critically assess your capacities in this regard.

I'll just finish by saying that I am of the belief that Relic/THQ is many times more focused on the next game than supporting what's out there already. I've felt this since playing DoW - the next expansion was always coming, the patching dreadful. With the release of OF, Relic has hit new lows on the 'quality at release' scale, and now more than ever support will be critical to many of their customers loyalty and on going support. When I see the changelist for a patch, and think of the time it has taken to produce that I become more convinced that the maintenance department is little more than the work experience kid. Nobody wants Relic to go broke, we all like the direction they have taken RTS and at the end of the day we just want see these essentially brilliant games reach their true potential.

[Mordakii]

Well this more than any other mistake relic have made is going to annihilate (I was going to say decimate, but its not strong enough) the online game.

People will have patched, not be able to get in a game and wont care enough to come looking here to fix the problem.

Wow, just wow. Time to fire the intire QA "team" and whoever is responsible.

[HonestJohnny]

Now that we have to reinstall the game my team mates have come accross a problem.

I own both CoH and Opposing Fronts and it was a bit easier for me to reinstall the game. However, I have team mates that have only vCoH. Now they need the patch from version 1.0 to version 1.4 as Moe recommended. However, the link given is only of use for English version of the game:

http://thq.vo.llnwd.net/o10/CoH/reta..._140_Patch.exe

Were can we obtain a different language versions of the patch? Unfortunately changing the letters from EN to our language in the above link (which works for the most recent patches) does not work for the above patch 1.0 to 1.4.

It would be a poor solution if had to go through patches 1.0 to 1.1, 1.1 to 1.2, 1.2 to 1.3 and so on, as these are the patches that my team-mates actually have in our language version.

[Catastrofizum]

Ideally they need to find their "patches" folder which should be on a path like this:

C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\My Documents\My Games\Company of Heroes\Patch

This will have every patch they have previously applied, and should therefore reapply after reinstalling - with the obvious exception of the 2.2 patch.

[HonestJohnny]

Yep, they have all the patches in the folder but they go like 1.0 to 1.1, then 1.1 to 1.2, then 1.2 to 1.3 and so on. The reinstallation of vCoH through all the patches upto 2.103 (including the 1.8GB patch) is a real pain for our language version.

[Catastrofizum]

You have to do it this way as far as I know. Sorry mate, thank Relic for that one. Just be thankful you didn't uninstall and delete this folder somehow, in which case you would be downloading this massive chain of patches as well!

Well this touches on another issue I have with Relic maintenance - so indulge for one more mini rant. Relic's patching system does not make enough (basically zero) use of 'bridging' patches - that is when there is a 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 patch than the developer would be wise to release to 1.0->1.3 patch which lumps them all in together. Times like this intensify this problem dramatically, but really there seems little reason for the patching system not to utilize a bridging system.

[Moe]

There are bridging patches. I'm guessing the reason for not having one "patch 'em all" patch is that it would be massively huge.

[Ballist1x]

ya but maybe if they offered a "all as one" patch for download simultaneously.. saves loging on... you need xxx patch.. zzzz, relogin, you need xx patch....zzzz

kind of like UT used to do?

[Unkn0wn]

Relic should offer a patch from 2.2 to 2.103.
That would go a long way in fixing their mess and not losing a lot of their users who are aggrevated at the need to reinstall.

A simple hotfix for 2.2 would've been far more convient too.

[Catastrofizum]

Well obviously the system would have to be taking into account various patch sizes - for example the v2.101(?) 1.8GB patch would obviously remain separate, as may some of the other larger ones. The sum of the parts will be less than the total of the parts. Where are the bridging patches? Can you give me a link please? When I setup on a new machine I had to download and reinstall each one from Relic Online - if they have bridging patches than Relic Online should be capable of detecting current version and and the best patching path to the current version..