Daton, any chance you stop being the devil's advocate?
I don't want to change the topic or whatever. Piracy is bad and all. But the only way anyone would know if this new relic online system works, moe, is if someone who has limited experience with pirating were able to pirate coh:OF with minimal effort.I mean a study that shows a relationship between number of sales and estimated number of illegal downloads with and without copy protection. I don't want to get into a whole copy protection argument, but I've seen the "it only hurts the guys who bought it and doesn't help to reduce piracy at all" argument a million times, only nobody has ever provided any data to support it.
If Coh: vanilla was easy to pirate, as relic is indicating, then clearly coh: OF should be a pain in the ass to pirate.
If there is no difference in difficulty of pirating then the RO login system is just hurting us, the legitamate users.
On topic, I usually disagree with ever word daton ever says. But he is managing to stay pretty logical in defending relic's screw up.
Greyhounds are my favorite, still!
Fast panzer4! Coming soon, to a motorpool near you!
If you contribute to his legal defense fund.Daton, any chance you stop being the devil's advocate?
Melonplant, your question can be easily answered:
Is OF harder to pirate than vCoH? Yes.
vCoH had no protection. OF does. That, by definition, is harder to pirate.
Bonnet, I can't think you enough for posting that Eve online issue. Because of it, I just saved my friend's ass.
Since it requires login OR CD, it is only "hard" (or impossible, even) to pirate for online play. I'd wish they'd make it so online play requires a log on, but if we have no internet, no CD is required. I'm pretty sure i've lost my CD by now (of course I have, Steam never sent me one :-P). I was amazed that I found my battlefield 2142 CD earlier, which i've been trying to play for AGES.
I of course have a login ID and everything but no CD means im shafted? Extremely lame.
Last edited by Melonplant; 6th Dec 07 at 5:10 AM.
Not lame, its not their fault you lost your game, besides, if you pirated the game, all you would need to do is disable your net when you load the game... not very fool proof anti piracey
Melonplant, most games require you to insert a DVD. With the exception of MMOs and those bought via STEAM / D2D the overwhelming majority of recent PC games require you to insert a disc before playing.
Would be nice, if we could get 2.200 today. Finland is celebrating for its 90th anniversary, it's Independence Day here. The patch would be the best gift for the Finn players of CoH
I am very aware of all the games out there that absent mindedly have the DVD check = 1 set. Do any of you remember the days of kings quest 5? The copy protection for that game was that the manual had a very distinct language written in it. In the game, during key points, it would ask the user to translate some words. The only way you could know the translation was if you had the manual, right? Because you had to have your manual, not some one elses. You also couldn't use the internet, because it wasn't invented (actually it almost wasn't, sarcasm aside) and you certainly couldn't just guess. I actually calculated it out just now and you had a 1/64 chance of just randomly bypassing the copy protection.Melonplant, most games require you to insert a DVD. With the exception of MMOs and those bought via STEAM / D2D the overwhelming majority of recent PC games require you to insert a disc before playing.
My point being, copy right protection will ultimately be up to the consumer. The inane system set in kings quest 5 was little more than an annoyance, just as the CD check now is little more than an annoyance to the legit consumer and an annoyance to the evil hacker of death. I completely agree RO was the way to go. Steam has a very effective copy protection in place right now and making people log in to their one account will ensure they have a legit version.
If they keep the CD check, fine. It'll just bug people. Maybe the developers were thinking the same thing when they made sandbags block infantry. This 3 foot high obstacle will surely stop people!
Edit: 4 x 16 is, in fact, 64. Not 48.
Melon, there was even worse forms of copy protection back in the day. Did you ever have to deal with a code wheel? Those were very difficult at times. Then I remember ADnD licensed games that wouldn't start if you didn't find the word in an even larger manual if they didn't use the code wheels.
The thing about COH:OF and its Securerom v7.33.0014 is that it slows and makes alot of issues with the common customers and buyers such thing could never ever slow a person with just a little tiny knowledge about using images and tools...
So whats the point of adding a copy protection like this? Truly i just dont know!
If someone could explain it to me would be great!
I think CoH is quite good, nearly all other games require you to have the CD in order to play, so moaning that you can't play because you don't carry around the CD is silly, how do you play other games lol?
Saying that, I think most people would rather have the legit copy, even if they wait awhile for the price to drop. If someone wants to steal the game are they going to just go out and buy it when they fail? I doubt it, they will try harder. For the number of people steal CoH, is it worth all the money they spend trying to stop it, plus the trouble to honest customers?
And getting to work means sitting through 3 hours of traffic. I mean, why do I go to work?nearly all other games require you to have the CD in order to play, so moaning that you can't play because you don't carry around the CD is silly, how do you play other games lol?
Because I have no choice.
Whats that got to do with game CD's?
You have to sit through 3 hours of traffic, bringing along a single disk isn't much hassle after all
Or don't play CoH when you should be working you lazy bum xd
I find it very amusing that people complain about maybe 30 seconds of their live while they waste (well not wasting, i hope you get what i mean ;-) ) another 30 min to ∞ hours actually playing the game.
i find the copy protection well done, 30 secs is all i have to invest when i don't have a constant internet connection and/or the urge to create an online account. so why don't you try to live with it. i really can't understand the intentions someone has if he complains about copy protection. ever heard about intellectual property, patents ... . if you invented something would you let anybody try to steal fom you and make the profit/get the critical acclaim you should have received. i don't think so. in the end we're just stupid selfish humans.
edit: and melon, you always have a choice, question is do you want to have that choice? ;-)
and pls don't compare business with amusement.
I don't think he was saying relic should give all there info away for free, he was saying that the copy protection doesn't work and it is just trouble for the honest gamers.
Copy protection doesn't work. It didn't work in music industry and it doesn't work in the software industry. Even hardcore hardware copy protections using dongles are routinely circumvented.
The only way to get around the piracy issue is to restructure your business to eliminate the cause rather then effect.
drChengele: But give them Schrecks instead of bazookas. 'Cause, you know - 560 manpower.
Like the whole Bioshock fiasco. People who bought it could only install the game TWICE, and only on 2 computers. After that the game became useless, and you could go and buy a new one.
Results? A complete riot on every forum concerning the game. And the hackers? Ow, it only took them 2 days to bypass it.
It used to be easier to just buy games, but with all the ridiculously aggressive protection these days it's probably easier to just pirate.
I still buy my games, but damn this is giving me a hard time.
copy protection 'does' work to a certain degree. of course there will be always geeks out there that provide cracks but even though you cant stop it you can increase the time it takes to create a crack. don't get me wrong i hate copy protection as everybody else does, but i do believe that people who made a good product should get the credit for it. this is capitalism. you dont get things for free, you have to pay for it. so i can live with a shitty protection as long as i can play the game that i paid for. and besides ive seen far worse protection systems.
its you out there that cant get enough. you dont want to play one good game, you want to play them ALL. but since you cant pay for it you steal it. that may be righteous in your eyes, but that wont help decreasing the prices that way. the industry wouldnt reduce them anyway, but now they have an excuse to raise them till everybody goes berserk because they cant afford it anymore. also most of the people who download warez are able to pay for it, they simple dont think its necessary.
Have you ever heard of children? You must not have any or you would know the odds of you having broken or non-functional discs goes through the roof once children enter the home.ever heard about intellectual property, patents ...
No it doesn't. Its purpose isn't to make a "pirate" wait 2 days to "steal" a product. Its purpose, as declared, is to stop copying, period. And since it does not, it does not work.copy protection 'does' work to a certain degree.
And as far as getting a study to determine the effects of "piracy" on sales, it'll never be accurate. Who as a "pirate" would truthfully answer anyone calling to ask if they do it? And any data provided by the protection scheme folks has to be suspect, they do have a vested interest in pumping up the numbers to sell product.
No, I think all you really need to do is spend a little time looking around at what's available, and you'll see pretty quickly that the hackers are as good or better than the protectors. I'd be surprised if you could find a single game released in the last 10 years that hasn't been cracked.
As for the impact that it has on the industry, I'd say it's up for debate. It is my observation that the reality is; there are three types of "pirates" out there:
There are the true pirates, the folks who make and sell copies of the games. These folks directly take revenue out of developers’ hands, as clearly they were able to sell the fake goods, so the people getting the games would have purchased a real one, if it had been on sale for the same price right next to the fake one. So these folks are clearly bad. If a perfect copy protection scheme were invented, these folks would be out of business. Sales might go up as a result, but how much would depend on the price the "consumers" of the real pirate goods would pay. (Pirate goods are generally cheaper than real ones.)
Then there are the hackers and casual "pirates." These folks pirate because they can. Often they don't even use what they pirate. (How many folks really need Autocad, or could really use it? But they pirate it anyway.) Some are just download pack rats. Most of these folks wouldn't buy the game at any price, because it isn't the game they really care about, or because they just don't want to spend the cash. If a perfect copy protection scheme were invented, these folks just wouldn't buy the game, so very little increase in sales would come from here.
Then there are the consumer "pirates." These are the folks who actually buy the game, and then either crack it or copy it so they can save the original media and prevent loss. Generally they are not hackers, but they rely on hackers to make it possible to copy the purchased goods they want to copy. If a perfect copy protection scheme were invented, these folks would stop copying, and probably be a little bummed. But very little or no sales increases would occur, because these folks already bought the game. Only the folks who lost or broke a game disc might re-purchase, but they'd probably be pissed about it and the company would lose some customer loyalty to be sure.
So, what are the odds that a perfect copy protection scheme will be invented? About the same as the odds I’ll get to sleep with Diane Lane. And without a perfect copy protection scheme, you can’t stop the real pirates; they have too much expertise and incentive to crack the protections. The revenue increase from stopping hackers and casual “pirates,” as well as the consumer “pirates”, is unlikely to offset the costs of the protection schemes themselves.
So what to do? I think the developers are entitled to make money. And I think the real pirates need to be stopped. But I think the better way to do it is to build better products, priced more reasonably, with better customer experiences, which make the customers want to be part of an online community that can better track the product’s usage and insure legit sales. I don’t even have a problem with companies requiring an internet connection and registration to allow installation and play of the game, so long as the game will function after install if the internet goes down. It’s clear the old methods are not very good, and easy to defeat. So I think it’s time for the developers to get creative and come up with better ways to do the job.
Sure it is. Copy protection creates protected sales time, which is where the most money is lost through warez. And the protection doesn't aim at the hardcore pirates that crack anything eventually - it's aimed at the casual pirates (of which there are many, seeing as how every 3rd complaint is how "I can't play LAN with one copy anymore"). The ones that, when the game is released, check for a warez copy, and if they don't find one, they buy the game. 2 days is more than enough. And when it comes to casual pirating, some protection (OF) is better than no protection (vCoH).Its purpose isn't to make a "pirate" wait 2 days to "steal" a product.
i agree with you. but as i already said were all just human no one will ever stop corruption. it's inside all of us ;-)
and copy protection does work. because as long as the media is not leaked it takes some time to override the protection thus helping the sales in the first weeks, after that the prizes will drop to a more reasonable prize and people begin to think about whether they buy a copy or risk being fucked by the feds. reals pirates dont care about authority but the little pirates like you and i are considering buying that damn copy.
and, besides i never ever broke a cd dcv etc. if not intentionally. so kids have that kind of say curiosity, but most of the publishers are fair and provide a new copy for a small fee.
sales and firgures are always incorrect and fake, i dont give a shit about them but to the wider audience those figures might be intriguing.
edit: exactly, daton.
Show me numbers. I've heard this argument over and over again, nobody has ever backed it up. Show me how not having a copy protection for WA, DC and vCoH positively influenced profit margins for THQ, and show me how those profits were reduced once their new copy protection scheme was implemented. Otherwise please don't post unsupported claims.Copy protection doesn't work. It didn't work in music industry and it doesn't work in the software industry. Even hardcore hardware copy protections using dongles are routinely circumvented.
I kinda had the impression that these folks were complaining because something they were able to do before was no longer available to them. I didn't assume they were "pirates." Clearly they didn't download a hacked version of the game, they bought a copy and then tried to use it in the same fashion as it had been used before. Calling them pirates seems a bit disingenuous. I doubt they thought they were pirates, just doing what they'd done before, which they thought was ok, even if it wasn't.it's aimed at the casual pirates (of which there are many, seeing as how every 3rd complaint is how "I can't play LAN with one copy anymore"
And do you really think people who know warez, and check for them when games are released, are so impatient that they go buy games if a warez version isn't available on day one? Really? Besides I doubt a single game released this year wasn't available on day one.
First off, the "show me the numbers" argument doesn't fly. You show ME the numbers that support your claim. They don't exist. (I'm assuming that by numbers you mean a study performed by an impartial third party. I'm sure SecuROM would provide numbers if asked. ) And as I said before, lawbreakers are not likely to answer polls of this nature honestly. So it really isn't a legit question.Show me numbers. I've heard this argument over and over again, nobody has ever backed it up. Show me how not having a copy protection for WA, DC and vCoH positively influenced profit margins for THQ, and show me how those profits were reduced once their new copy protection scheme was implemented. Otherwise please don't post unsupported claims.
How about looking at downloads? The music industry has tried it, and for some time periods sharing and downloads seem to have dropped, but then later went back up, and then seemed to be as high as ever. How's that effort going? Not too well I'd guess.
And I'd point out the copy protected audio CD disaster, that even folks in the music industry admitted was a bad move. Several artists lost money when they had sales plummet from the bad press.
And then there's the Sony rootkit issue. Also a big money loser.
And throughout all of this I don't recall a single product coming out that cheered it's protection scheme for increasing it's profits. Maybe because there are just too many variables involved in making a product profitable to claim with certainty that one thing was any more important than the other. Too much uncertainty.
The only thing I know with absolute certainty is the copy protection, DRM, and other schemes, have never helped me or enhanced my experience, they have only ever annoyed me. And I'm the paying customer. Hmmm...what happens if I become too annoyed? Do I remain a paying customer? Good question.
And I don't think those people did it maliciously. But it was not intended (clearly labeled as such on the box) and it decreased revenue. Why would a company not try to put a stop to?I kinda had the impression that these folks were complaining because something they were able to do before was no longer available to them. I didn't assume they were "pirates." Clearly they didn't download a hacked version of the game, they bought a copy and then tried to use it in the same fashion as it had been used before. Calling them pirates seems a bit disingenuous. I doubt they thought they were pirates, just doing what they'd done before, which they thought was ok, even if it wasn't.
You're the one making a bold statement, it's up to you to support it. I'd put forth that since most companies do it and most companies seek to maximize their profits there's something to be said for their approach. If it were as unprofitable as you make it out to be they probably would have abandoned this approach years ago.First off, the "show me the numbers" argument doesn't fly. You show ME the numbers that support your claim. They don't exist. (I'm assuming that by numbers you mean a study performed by an impartial third party. I'm sure SecuROM would provide numbers if asked. ) And as I said before, lawbreakers are not likely to answer polls of this nature honestly. So it really isn't a legit question.
Yes i agree it brings some of the profit that just goes down to the trench back.
I agree that the Securerom and all type of protections like this are made just to slow you a little down...but im sure that not implementing such a protection would bring its benefit too. We all remember how thankful was the whole vCoh community because Relic was probably one of the first companies that decided no skip the annoying protection and just give the game to the gamers. The true one would buy it and will play it at RO.
What have changed now? I must say there are maybe 3 times more people playing in Hamatchi servers most likely with warez game. The people that decided they would not buy this game needed 30mins more to figure out a way to go arround the protection.
The real problem is with the people that decided to buy the game and were not able to play it! Not to mention the GotY version with failing Verification and all the other problems that poped out because of the Securerom. I have a friend that bought the game and could not verify his DVD because of this and we read abused the search engine a whole weekend until we found out that we are not the only one!
So is it worth having a copyright protection such as Securerom that gives you some of the profit back where it belongs? Relic paid for this with hundreds of games pulled back from store and hundreds of angry common buyers and gamers that bought the game but were not able to use it at all! At last place Securerom managed to slow the users for like 30 mins that already had made the decision not to buy the game and to play it in Hamatchi.
Isnt it more profitable to say we Trust you guys that you will support our work and if you like the game you will buy it? So is Profit A > B ?
I wish that instead of dicking around with copyright protection they just gave us the team automatch and new multiplayer modes that they said they would. I mean, it's been over a year, we could atleast have team automatch by now, it really can't be that hard to code. If you have a professional team of coders I am sure they can make a team automatch system in less then a year, they already have the regular automatch system so it's not like they are starting from scratch.
The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can touch the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
Well they just rushed things up,
They grew mustache to finish the game sooner. a soon finished game, will exclude certain features and will definitely include a lot of bugs. Relic developers are trying to cover the balance issues by removing codes not by adding any.
I uninstalled the game a week ago after waiting 2 hours to start a 3v3 game with some friends and failing to do so.
Do I miss playing CoH? Yes
Do I miss suffering to play CoH? No
Will I buy any other Relic games? Hell No
Seeing as how there were cracked copies of OF floating around within 24h of its release in the US, i just dont see how its possible the copy protection reduced loss of sales due to piracy....
A reduction in loss of sales due to more people buying the game for LAN play maybe.
I'm just being honest here don't flame me. For what its worth I can answer this in a relatively simple and precise manner for Chuckwagon. Out of the 3 people I know that own this game I can bet 3 will not buy another version if the problems continue. There is your loss of sales due to the problems and disc protection and I can also tell you that anyone in my clan that finds out that the game has to many problems.. will not be buying it.Show me numbers. I've heard this argument over and over again, nobody has ever backed it up. Show me how not having a copy protection for WA, DC and vCoH positively influenced profit margins for THQ, and show me how those profits were reduced once their new copy protection scheme was implemented. Otherwise please don't post unsupported claims.
I have lost count how many games I have bought and not been able to play because of the CD/DVD protection. I have shelfed games because of it and blacklisted them permanently. Example: Call of Duty 4. I have never been able to play the Single Player due to the copyright protection. I still can't and I have two of the best drives you can buy with the latest firmware and I have swapped the disc for another with no results.
Also.. Daton.. saying the disc protection buys time? Are you for real? Do you use the net for more than checking your email? I know games are posted for download prior to the game even hitting the shelf for sale, so how does that help sales? I hear idiots talking about downloading games before the game is on the shelf all the time. I read a huge amount of forums... If your going to make such comments you may want to read more and be more informed.
Chuckwagon is dead on... too bad you people don't realize it.
I have spent 1000's of dollars on games in my 37 years and in the last 5 years those numbers have dwindled severely due to the constant damn problems with bad software and ridiculous antipiracy BS. EA can blow me for all the crap they release.. I have lost tons of money to them. Activision can get in line and get some knee pads. The COD series is a damn joke. Even the good ole Unreal Tournament from wayyyy back. CD never worked right. So many things I spent money on.. that don't work.. and I am tired of it and will start playing cards if I have too.
Software companies are to interested in stopping something they never will instead of appeasing the good customers. I am a business man.. Do what I do. Appease the ones that count and screw the rest. You will always have a loss... and if you dwell on it and burn up time with it and try to stop crooks good paying customers like me are going to get tired of delays.. bad patches, disc's that don't work etc. and move on. Also.. limited installs of software... I rebuild my pc on a quarterly basis. I am a hardware enthusiast. Games that have limited installs are blacklisted becuase I constantly upgrade and reinstall Windows Crapware.
Chuck.. this is a lost cause brother. Greed is the word of the day. They have shifted their efforts to making sure they don't lose a dime and lost sight of the real problems.
One more thing... Most hackers like a challenge. If you keep uping the stakes they are just going to be more diligent. Its like crack (the drug) to a hacker. Take the challenge away. This reminds me to much of Microsoft and the Vista nightmare. Another company trying to beat the hackers and loosing on a grand scale. Hackers go after MS just because of how hard MS tries to stop them. Its their game.. Like Chuck said most don't even use what they hack.
Opposing fronts to me and my crew is a huge disappointment. We can't finish a game! The AI is God Like and the new Doctrines are lacking. What the hell is someone to do with troops that can't even lay wire or sand bags against and expert AI that can do anything? No wire, bags or traps with regular troops in the new doctrines? Spend more time working on fixing the game instead of antipiracy or I will be one less person buying anything else you have to offer and I gurantee many of my fellow gamers will follow my lead. Not a flame.. just advice.
We don't encourage flaming here, so no worries.I'm just being honest here don't flame me. For what its worth I can answer this in a relatively simple and precise manner for Chuckwagon. Out of the 3 people I know that own this game I can bet 3 will not buy another version if the problems continue. There is your loss of sales due to the problems and disc protection and I can also tell you that anyone in my clan that finds out that the game has to many problems.. will not be buying it.
I believe you when you say that your three friends won't buy the game. However the question is, what are the overall figures? I know of two guys who used to play with the same copy of vCoH via LAN, now they both own a copy because they'd like to keep playing. I'm willing to bet that we could both find similar stories if we kept looking, so in order to determine whether or not the copy protection actually does influence sales in a negative way you'd have to look at the sales figures themselves.
Like I said I am a business man. I hear what you are saying but I can tell you from experience ( I own two companies) that graphs, charts etc all look good and make things look wonderful on paper, but the bottom line is trend.
Pissing off the public once.. is bad but not terrible. Pissing off the public twice is a trend. People are very trendy in this world. More than twice (EA for example) may cause profits to crash from loyal customers moving on.
The problem you have and I understand is loss... I have lost a lot due to the housing market being the worst it has been in 30+ years. A loss I can't help.
Its a catch 22. I think the key word is balance. The best way to stay ahead and not ruin your reputation is balance. Your always going to have critics its just how many. Your always going to have a loss.. its just how much. If you lean one way or the other is causes problems. Appease the masses and loose money but gain more loyal customers. Go after the hacks and loose sight of proper support and burn up resources elsewhere (Again example EA) and loose loyal customers and money.
The answer is there is no real answer. Being a company owner is the true form of a gambler.
You do know that EA is the market leader and has had it's no support policy for years? Your examples disprove your points instead of supporting them.More than twice (EA for example) may cause profits to crash from loyal customers moving on.
Do you own a car? Do you lock your car? Or do you not want to give the car thieves the satisfaction and just leave it open?One more thing... Most hackers like a challenge. If you keep uping the stakes they are just going to be more diligent. Its like crack (the drug) to a hacker. Take the challenge away. This reminds me to much of Microsoft and the Vista nightmare. Another company trying to beat the hackers and loosing on a grand scale. Hackers go after MS just because of how hard MS tries to stop them. Its their game.. Like Chuck said most don't even use what they hack.
Do you have a car that you cannot open and drive?Do you own a car? Do you lock your car? Or do you not want to give the car thieves the satisfaction and just leave it open?
Please making such similarities is pointless... lets keep to the game and thread.
We have gone waaaay off topic, we need to get back to moaning about the patch how much of a failure Relic is!
Yes, great comment, especially when it is so easy to return the purchased copy of OF to the seller and get all your money back. Believe me if I had the opportunity to return the game and get a full refund I would not wait a single moment. I would return it right away.DatonKallandor:
Did you buy the game? Yes? Did you like it? No? Did you keep it? Yes? Then you have no right to complain. You have paid once for the product you got. If you kept that product you accepted it - and until you pay again, you have no rights to squat.
Why are you even here then? I don't understand why some people even come on these forums. Seriously, if you hate OF so much you want to return it just don't play it. Surely it's not worth the stress?
Borrish, I am here because I can't return the game. Hence, the option I have left is to play it and in order play it, it needs to be fixed. Writing here is a way to let Relic know that the game needs a fix.
Another option is not to play it, because it will never get fixed. Then there is still a reason to be here, just to let others know what is the state of the game.
I did not hate vCOH. I hate OF. However, I had no option of keeping vCOH as far as on-line is concerned. I was forced to switch to OF.
Sorry that you find it difficult to understand such simple facts.
You don't have to play it. Surely you have something better to do then then play a game you don't like. I had a period where i didn't enjoy playing CoH anymore. You know what i did? I uninstalled it and stopped playing for a while. Relic knows it needs to be fixed, we all know it needs to be fixed but everyone going "RELIC SUCKS FIX THE DAMN GAME" every 5 seconds does not help anyone.
I would also appreciate if you would not try and make this personal.
Not taking it personal Borrish. The problem is that I am somehow addicted to CoH, actually to vCOH. Now with OF the good game is gone and despite the faith which I tried to have with Relic, Relic disappointed me time and again. Especially with the 2.200 patch. Now there is no word from Relic what is actually going on and I seriously doubt that they will ever fix the game. I just wasted my money on OF believing in Relic. I should have done what you suggested - I should have uninstalled CoH when OF came out and quit playing this game.
If you can't return it, it's not Relic's problem. It's yours, and it's a problem between you and your retailer.Borrish, I am here because I can't return the game. Hence, the option I have left is to play it and in order play it, it needs to be fixed. Writing here is a way to let Relic know that the game needs a fix.
Please explain this statement. They patched vCoH to accomadate OF but I do not see how they forced you to buy it. The original 2 factions still fight well against each other."I was forced to switch to OF.
Umm, there are a couple of bugs here I didn't know existed. The heroic charge for one. Anyhoo, got a couple of problems my self.
First off, in skirmish mode, as the british if you build an AT emplacement and orient the gun away from the original range, when you save and reload, the gun will always default back to the original. A tad annoying if you find out this after watching the german wagons move in and kill it with no resistance.
Second, Tank AI has always been slightly dumb in this game. This is worse with the brits as their tanks, to work efficiently, work in groups. This makes some problems apparent. The command tank, with the exception of machine guns prefers to move in amongst the combat tanks rather than hang back. This leaves it open to enemy fire which is annoying because I prefer microing the main battle tanks rather than playing with the command unit. Second, tanks always back into each other and get in the way. Fair enough (well not really) but when a tank is under fire and you order it away from the situation it will ALWAYS (dependent on the distance) take ages to swing round, wiggle its ass and move off. Can't you implement a minor solution - if a tank is receiving fire it will reverse out?
Look at the stupidity of the cromwell - flank speed. Great for attacking marders, but if under fire, it's also useful for getting it out of a hairy situation. It should work fantastically in reverse, except it never does. The tank always comes about, exposing its weakest armour before moving off. Surely this can be resolved easily?
anyway, I'm off to eat cake seeing as i'm still aliiiiive.
Daton we are all glad to hear your bottom line fuck you customer comments from your THQ protocol manual. But seriously. You a pretty fucking annoying, I mean is this idiot looking for some sort "Thanks for sticking up for us Daton!" from relic or something? If you ever had a business or knew anything about one, it would surely fail, with your views. Those rules like most, are guidelines. I have worked in sales, and worked in retail sales when I was younger and Simple rules like, you cant return clothing if its worn is a simple comparison here. If the customer bitches and whines enough, they will get their money back, in almost any situation. and rightfully so, because if you EVER want to have customers return, your not going to be an arrogant son of a bitch about it. Ask any business manager that has had to deal with any sort of customer, if a customer is making a scene and complaining enough, just do what’s needed to make them happy and get them out of there. I work in Marketing now, and we are a defense contractor for the military and no one would stay in business with that attitude or approach. Yes there are rules in place to prevent potential abuse on things, but not likely the end result on a case by case basis... Your constant comments on relic makes a game and they don’t owe you shit is so fundamentally flawed. Yes there is no specified support after release, but if they didn’t, NO ONE would be playing. Do you really think this nonstop relic/thq fan boy bullshit is going to get you some public acknowledgement from anyone relic or thq related that you are obviously seeking.
edit: for those of you whom lost your reciept, trust me, you complain enough they will try to get you out of there, even if its with some sort of store credit you can use on someone more useful.
Last edited by matthewdanese; 7th Dec 07 at 7:32 AM.
matthew would you mind getting back to a normal communication level, you are getting way too personal. you may not share his opinion but what you could share with him is showing the respect that he is showing to you by NOT getting personal and insulting.
I looked in that thread many times,because of the new patch and his issues.I hope you will not see that as "panic making" cause there were a lot of questions last time...
Its now more then 1 week ago,since the patch issue with 2.200.
3 Days ago Buggo wrote the news,that they fixed some issues.Well after that time,could you say how status is now?Release maybe today,or someday next week?..I mean dont you must have a time now..?no fix date..so,could it be its released today,or when?
Cause some buddys get of these days,and we hoped we can do some funny games with that new fixes.
I wouldnt panic..but its some time ago..
yeah maybe a little to personal, but I agree with matthew in that DatonKallandor is taking valid complaints and giving them some "if you read the fine print" response, in a VERY condescending way. which I would also classify as personal and insulting.
i got to oppose to that. daton comments on rather stupid rants like "relic is fucked up and everybody does it better look at starcraft" and you get extremely personal instead of giving any counterargument called FACTS. that's the problem, stating that something is wrong despite four other people say it's the other way round is never very popular and when there are four people complaining about somebody who tries to be honest and give facts and figures whenever he can and tries not to OVERexaggerate things while everybody cries its all fucked up he is the bogeyman everbody can shit on. that's fucked up i say. that is called mobbing and that's one of the shittiest traits the human kind has.
The simple solution to avoiding Daton's bizarre "you bought it, now get fucked" attitude is to just go into your profile settings on the site, and add his name to your ignore list. The tone and purpose of his posts has pretty much been dead on the same forever now, so trust me, you aren't going to miss anything.
If there isn't any real chance of having an interesting argument, just the same tired one again and again, 'tis better to just let it pass by unnoticed than waste more energy on it.
But we love CoH, it's by far the best RTS game I've ever played. Every rose has its thorns, except CoH's thorns are more like laser guided serrated switch blades. - Painmuffin
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