i usualy just build huge swarms of fighters, and dests. With hiigrins i just build masses of fighters and bc's.
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i usualy just build huge swarms of fighters, and dests. With hiigrins i just build masses of fighters and bc's.
I'll post a bit of my opinion. (Also my first post on this forum)
You people seem to say, whatever amount of A ships and another amount of B ships and you can kill enemies quickly, but let's face it, if you play against good players, you don't get 10 figters, 12 frigates and 10 corvettes all alive at the same time...
If you tend to be defensive, which usually is the case on big maps, then the game is not about tactics but micro management.
So the real tactics is to make what ship and how many rc and do what action when instead of keeping your fleets safe and secure.
Since there are limited ru to collect in certain amount of time, I tend to be leaned to taking either cap ship rush or fighter defensive tactics, if you do both, you'll be fried by my tactics
One tactic I do is, rushing for destroyers. I tend to do that with Hiigraans recently, but for Vaygr you can do that too and I'm yet to get conclusion on which is better, probably tends to how long the battle lasts though. What you do is make fighters out from Carrier, and make dest on mothership and do minimum research and hyperspace capability.
14 rc can do it.
And you keep sending dests to resource patches. The point is too make enough probe so you know where inihibitors are and know if they're making fighters or corvs, so you can counter them by making anti-their's, or if you're really into dest rush, you should pump out only bombers, so you can take any inihibitors off. Just you need to wish for your partners to do well and not sit there with many ints sleeping.
this build order is quite good indded but try to do it with less collectors.By doining it with 12 you can still get the first dest in ~8 minutes by using improved ms construction (as vaygr). what you can further try is to send your first dest with the fighters to the enemy by simply moving him and send the next 2 through quickly build hyperspace gates just before the battle.:gnight:
Hi guys
i would like to know if anyone has ever tried a platform rush??
i have repeatedly much to the surprise of my opponents.
although i only use this strategy once against a player, coz inevitably they learn ... ghasp!
i tried a quick tech to platforms and started pumping out platforms.
i usually que about 8 to 10
by the time i have 5 a send them straight into the enemy mining field,
while they are busy with that! i research and que another 10 missile platforms and send them to join the battle, usually i place them just within the reach of the enemy carrier.
its the funniest site watching an opponents mothership pick up her petty coat and hightail it outta there.
but this only works in small maps ie;1v1 or 2v2
this i find also buys me alot of time to expand my resources collection and build a pretty fleet of lancers,AC, and bombers
try it!
if u have timed it right .. its the funniest thing on earth
Ive been messing with Vaygr and have come up with a decent strat that at least works vs CPU that involves and early lance/assault craft swarm on the enemy. I just kill whatever the enemy has built thus far and leave, during that time I build HMFs. But would it be better to switch out the lances with bombers? Lances totally rape the gunships but bombers seem to track ships like that comparibly, and with greater firepower. And lances effectiveness drops alot whern they add cap ships or even a few frigs into their groups.
i guess it depends on the type of strat ur going for, no doubt HMF have the firepower to wipe up the enemy in such a situation but hey why wait that long? plus they are a bit slow.
i would immedeately switch to bomber and pump out a batch of about 8.
finish it off real quike like.
Mikk, Vaygr carriers are cheaper by ~39%. Look: 1700/2800 = ~61% - it means that Vay CC cost is the ~61% of Hig CC cost. So the difference is ~39%.
From what I constantly see in this thread is ppl fail to recognize that inherently not all Vaygr ships are useful and those that are, aren't in all situations. I tend to win in MP games much of the time because of how well I can make Vaygr work with the strategies of other players...theorizing is pointless if doesn't work in practice.
Vaygr production capacity early on is the advantage, both in speed and in build capable ships that you can have - this means that its best to pick 2-3 types of units and stick with them until the tide of battle has been decided in your favour. Then you can explore the other options...
My personal choice is to start with ACs, skip Vaygr corvettes (just don't think they bring enough return on the RUs invested) and go straight to HMFs - which I make about 14 of in several minutes. Basically, if you can push the first 5 to the front and keep a chain of reinforcements coming, its almost an unstoppable force. Why does this work?
1.) Most MP games someone rushes for middle w a carrier - which this strategy easily beats, and in a painful manner too
2.) If you have enough fighter cover, thats all the HMF's really need to succeed, and by the time your fighters are beaten back the frigates have done what you sent them to do anyway
3.) Player's commonly don't understand the power of a frigate fleet, going for bigger and shinier ships, fact is Hig destroyers are easy prey to HMFs and surprisingly Hig BCs fall too.
4.) Finally, because missiles reaquire, there's never a shot waisted and thats what really makes them devastating especially if you go for the speed upgrade first to get them there, most go for armor and their ships don't collect into a fleet fast enough.
Not a bad strategy if you throw in some Lance Fighters to deal with other Vaygr opponent's vettes.
hmmm it may be a good strategy to use once or twice ... but i do think itll be redundant soon.
how will u cope being flanked by a squadron of about 8 bombers mixed with assault craft of their own.
in all the mp games ive played, no one has been stupid enough to rush for the center minerals,
in the end i just dont believe that something like that could work with enough consistency to be viable. a balanced fleet created out of using some advanced scouting to see the makeup of the enemy fleet will always rape
I don't recommend building bombers at all in the early stages of a game ever unless you've clearly dominated in the strike craft department already. I would typically build 18 ACs myself and then merely be ready to pump out Lance in case the vettes start becoming a problem.
Also, I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to dismiss rushes for center. FC and Xeno do it all the time and they do it really well. Heck, I think one of the first thing a lot of FCers typically do is build MRs so they can start moving the MSes and carriers forward almost immediately. Moving on center can work great if you've got good support from your allies.
Vaygr Frig rush has some disadvantages. If none of your enemy is playing Vaygr, you have a great probability of succes of this strategy since the laser vettes are one of the best frig eaters in the universe. Even torps can't stop them. With the air supperiority of your allies you could even beat laser rusher. But what if your allies don't follow you quickly.
there is no air in space
..........
im sorry
someone shoot me
#114
Will that be Lascannon or Heavy Bolter?
Who knows, maybe there is an air in space somewhere.
There's gas in space. That's kinda like air.
nice thread guys =) i tend to play Vaygr a LOT and this stuff is all ringing bells.
BTW space is a vacuum!
I 've toyed with a lot of strats recently, mostly trying to figure out how to counter the Hiig figther/frigate rush that a LOT of players subscribe to. Of course when u get three clan members playing three complete strangers you odds of winning are fairly slim I find.
Fighters are very important to the early game, I mostly go for the double AC proudction right off the bat (after maxing RC's). And mix it with bombers and a couple of EMP'd scouts, the bombers are the backup plan in case someone wants to do early frigate action. Im thinking that the lasers might be worth a try after all the endorsements i've read. It is very important to research the figther tech., there's nothing like watching lvl 2 fighters melt their opposition =). They can easily get to and damage RC patches b4 the enemy realises what's going on...
Frigates have become a bit of a favorite in the past couple of weeks too, really liking the HMF. This has changed from me being a DD first kind of dude. Who knows i might switch a bit, but usually what gets built depends on game situation.
Missile corvettes are great for getting rid of figthers when no higg MF's are around, and a combined group of bombers/missiles will shred a resourcing operation.
RE: HSG's, never ever use them, usually don't have time or resources to bother
RE: Carrier, get the 2nd one out after massing figthers/RC's
RE: BC's, aim them explicitly, i find that they don't fire the big cannon (i forget it's name) unless you click a target. Don't bother aiming at single frigates or the like, they will usually miss. There is nothing like a pair of these with good support, single hiig BC's may barely get a first shot in sometimes b4 they blow.
enuf for the moment, i should get back to work, c'yall online
#118
Actually, lately I've found that if 3 strangers are experienced and communicate well, they can whoop alot of the clanner teams out there...Originally Posted by dr_blowfin
It's rare but it does happen.
But blowfin, maxing your collectors right away is probably getting you killed more than you realize. I typically shoot for maxing eventually but you really don't need that many to doublepump fighters. As a Vaygr player on a larger map, I typically build fighters right away (unless it looks like they are jumping straight to frigs) but will switch to a single pump for an extra carrier as soon as possible and can be triple pumping HMFs or laser vettes at around 14-15 collectors. I'd recommend building no more than 3 colls at your carrier and MS right off the bat. On a smaller map I usually build 2/3. Once it appears as though you have a strong fleet, then you can easily max by occasionally building 1 collector at each of your production ships. Building Vaygr DDs before maxing everything else is kind of a bad move as you will never be able to fully upgrade them unless you are already clearly winning the game. With a triple pump, you can probably get 21 fully upgraded HMFs in the time it takes to get 5 DDs from your FS alone.
i usaully play 3v3 i get bcs meh fellow clan member capt_jack_ecc will build intyts while gestord_ecc builds torp spam and 2 carriers i build bcs and 3 ru patch hand extra to allys(small batches of 500 space by 2 mins each should do wwhen i have 12 bc out all bc upgrade would be dont then 1000 ru every 3 mins and more after 3rd bc out to each of my allys) works quite well even vs our own clan members fighterblade_ecc and dkay_ecc
Maybe not right away, I might have exaggerated a bit there. One carrier pumping fighters while mothership concentrates on RU operations and after that the MS building whatever is deemed neccesary. DD's worked real well against the frig's last night, taking the middle of crimson in a 2 vs 2 with DD's + support worked a treat. Lightly packed frigs got mauled...didn't build any frigs at all come to think of it.
Hmm.. yeah as far as big map strategies go, I've been getting my butt handed to me quite frequently lately by players who build more carriers than seem practical with Vaygr (I've seen like 5). Doesn't seem like it's possible to build from that many production ships without hitting serious RU lag, but I guess it is. Of course I'm also kind of an upgrade fiend so maybe this is where I'm hitting trouble.
OK heres my vaygr 2 cents I wrote this months ago so I need to revise it I will do so soon.
Ok the Vaygr are based more on Strike Craft (fighters, Corvs). Each unit servs one single specific role.(No MultiRole Units).
The Vaygr recquire only a research mod. to access all research paths. Their Tech tree is highly prerequisite based. Requiering Unit type chassis to be researched then you must build the facility then you can research each individual unit you want to be able to build. (ex. Research Mod - Research Corv Chassis - Build Corv facility - research laser corvs - build laser) <---- So as you can see vaygr research takes time so plan ahead. Also all speed and armour upgrades enhance all ships of that category. Frig Armour lvl 1 gives all frigs more armour
The Vaygr can initially only build Research Mod, platform mod, cap-Ship facility, and fighter facilities. All other mods are available to build after research mod is built. Corvette Facilities, and Frigate Facilities can be built by researching their chassis respectively.
Unit breakdown
FIGHTERS- Advantages are 1.)unit cap is 18 2.)Speed Upgrades effect Scouts Also 3.)Assault craft Have 7 in squad 4.)EMP is 1000ru and cheaper than Hiig
Scouts-with EMP tech. and lvl2 speed upgrade can stop all fighters, corvs, rcs for a short time and they can disable frigs (if used in sufficeint numbers simultaneously)
Assault Craft-the definitive anti-fighter unit. They have 7 ships per unit (instead of the hiigi interceptors 5) so that means a little more unit longevity. Yo can get speed upgrade lvl2 much faster than a Hiig opponent giving these a nice early game edge. A swarm of 18 assault craft actually pop subsystems at a fairly good rate. I use em like people use bombers
Bombers- basically the same function as hiig to kill frigs and collectors, but with improved bomb tech they are the standard sub-system poppers.
Lance-These are fighters geared towards anti-corvette duty and when coupled with an FCT or Command Corvette they are brutal to vettes, basically they add a much needed edge to the Vaygrs strike craft versatility.
CORVETTES-Advantages-1.)Command Corvs act as mobile fire control towers (+15% to accuracy, +15% to damage as well) and all corvette upgrades affect them. 2.)Minelayers also get advantages of upgrades
Missle Corvette - Equivalent To Hiigi Pulsars, but they come 4 to a unit (instead of hiig pulsars 3). they also seem to be very good resource collector hunters.
Laser Corvette - decicated Frigate/Cap-Ship/Refinery/Collector killers. Man these units are very dangerous in swarms. A swarm of 12 lasers supported by a teammates anti corv will kill carriers in record time, and clear opponent ru operations even faster. VERY useful unit.
Command Corvettes - Act As mobile Fire Control Towers and come 1 to a unit. They are frail and they dont move around when in the midst of battle. So I suggest keeping them out of the middle of an engagement but just close enough. Also set them some waypoints so they move, or tell them to guarde a unit and they will move around following that unit. More than one of these together give double bonuses.
Minelayers - Very weak and die quickly, so keep them covered good when they are laying mines, when 5 of these are set to lay a 2D minefield in a perfect box somewhat near an enemy carrier or ru opt they start working magic and blow up stuff at an astounding rate. They also benefit from all corv upgrades as well.
FRIGATES-Advantages-1.)Infiltrators gain all frigate upgrades and Hiig marines dont get any upgrades 2.)No frig eats up capships like Heavy Missle Frigates
Heavy Missle Frigates - These are my favorite vaygr unit. They fire 2 heavy missles at their target and they also fire 1 single anti fighter/corv missle too. I think they are the best frig in the game for killing cap-ships the main reason for this is they don't pull the target towards them like Ion frigs do which makes move while attacking above a BCs fireing hard because alot of ions will pull a BC to them and makes it much more of a hassle.
Assault Frigates - (Im not crazy about these units AT ALL)These are basically moveable gunplats with alot more damage and armor. They fire a gun that is made to kill strike craft. Gun-plats dont do too well against corvettes but these do alot better. You can increase their effectiveness with FCTs and Command Corvs
Infiltrator Frigates - The best capture unit in the game mainly because they get the vaygr frigate upgrades and you can have 6 instead of the hiig Marines 4 unit limit.
*TO BE CONTINUED*
OK Ive typed enough tonight Ill finish tomorrow......
-Later-04'
DivinerSage
I'd have to say that the ability to rapidly switch out to lance fighters in the face of excess enemy corvette buildup is one of my favorite things about playing Vaygr.
Hey DivinerSage, where's the rest of that strat rundown? I've been banging my head against the Vaygr wall for a while now. If I gave up and just played Hiig (which was sooo much easier) I'd feel like I was giving up and not becoming a good player.
If you were any good with Hiig, I think it just comes down to getting used to the research/build tree. Most Vaygr players don't get beyond the units Diviner has already described before the outcome of the game is more or less determined anyway. All that's left is Destroyers and BCs. Vaygr have a disadvantage with these because the upgrades are prohibitively expensive early on.
Vaygr vs. Hiig Destroyer: Roughly the same firepower, but the Vaygr DD is less vulnerable to capture frigates since it can still hit them with it's missiles when they latch on. On the other hand, Hiig DDs upgrade for dirt cheap in comparison and their turret spread allows them to hit a lot more targets at once, making for a much stronger RU operation killer.
Vaygr vs Hiig BC: Vaygr BC builds faster, but also suffers from the upgrade issue. It is much more effective at wasting slow moving targets like shipyards and motherships and is a very nasty surprise when uncloaked on someone's mothership unprepared. Once again, Hiig gets the benefit of greater coverage by having its fire power divided into more guns, but the Vaygr Trinity Cannon cannot be disabled. You can take out its engines but if it's already lined up to fire on a mothership that's trapped in a grav well, it won't do a lick of good. Hiig BC is much better suited to taking out frigate groups when supported well and is strong against all capital ship targets, whereas the Vaygr BC is more of a game finisher.
A few tips:
Use command corvettes. Their bonus is cumulative up to 40% damage AND accuracy, giving your swarms a serious advantage. Just build 3 and have them guard a few ships in your swarm so they move naturally by following those craft and aren't as easily noticed. They are also a fun thing to pack into a cloaked Vaygr BC for a surprise cloak 'n hype maneuver.
Trash and swap to lance fighters if corvettes get nasty: If you have a full AC swarm and the enemy's corvettes start getting out of hand, retire (or scrap in an emergency) a few ACs and build lance fighters. Even just 6 Lance fighters added to an AC complement of 12 will take a serious toll on corvettes.
Give corvettes to Hiigaran allies: Missile Corvettes fulfill the same role as pulsars but are much more effective and laser vettes are the most brutal strike craft in the game. 36 lasers will rapidly devour anything they run into and can be very tough to counter if your enemies don't think ahead. Hiigaran frig rushers with Vaygr corvettes are a nasty combo.
Upgrade wisely: Speed 2 for fighters should be something you always go for if you're using them, but consider your needs when upgrading other stuff. Armor is always nice to have when you can afford it, but since Vaygr stuff is more expensive, don't break your bank and delay getting more ships out if cash is a bit tight. I always go for full upgrades eventually, but if you're in a close quarters game or have carriers close to the front, there may not be any need for corvette speed upgrades since the primary reason for getting them is to allow them to get to repair facilities quickly. Laser Vettes actually kill ships more quickly without speed upgrades since their attack runs last longer. Capital ship upgrades are doable, but you will typically need to pause construction occasionally to avoid RU lag. I have BC rushed before and had armor upgrades at 2 surprisingly quickly using this method. Vaygr BCs are actually pretty zippy at speed 2.
Resourcing: The Vaygr flaship is lousy for resourcing. On large maps, I recommend getting a refinery out when you get the chance and moving your flagship away from your starting RU positions so your resourcers don't waste all that time doing the space ballet routine just to get in line for RU dropoff.
Fighter Tips: On close maps like Kharam, Hiigarans can get their fighters out a bit faster due to their superior early resourcing, so it's best to let them take the initiative at first unless they rush to frigates. When doublepumping fighters keep the ones in your carrier at your forward RU op docked. When the bad guys start raiding focus fire on one target at a time with your carrier. Don't bandbox or that fire will spread out too much to be effective. Move in with your ACs from your flagship. Once your enemies break off from attacking your RU op, launch all fighters from your carrier and have yourself a happy Hiigaran sandwich. As with any fighter vs. fighter game, always be upgrade speed ASAP and repair your fighters when they are at about 3/5ths of their health bar. Good Chiken Vaygr players generally build 2 collectors at the flagship and 3 at the carrier on Kharam. That extra collector helps get those upgrades going a lot faster.
Dirt cheap carriers: They build fast and cheap so there is no reason not to build an extra one on a large map like Crimson Bond at the first opportunity as the enhanced production will rapidly make up for the time you weren't using your flagship to build combat vessels. Some people build like 3-4 extra carriers ASAP and it can be very effective if you don't get in their face fast enough. Squeezing out a carrier when you're losing can be an effective way of prolonging your game too if your allies can distract them long enough to flee.
Hey thanks for that timely response! I'll try all those things out tonight!
Last edited by BlackLabelSAR; 25th Jun 04 at 5:55 PM. Reason: Spelling
Vaygr can easily shut out Hiigaran strike craft. Not to mention I did a lab of Vaygr DD vs Hig DD :fight: and....the vaygr DD salughtered its Hig counterpart. It had half of its health bar left!!!!!
Lab again...that's unrealistic in my experience...
Atlas: probably because your DD was upgraded and the enemies wasnt? Could have also had bad luck with shots to the engine instead of the hull.
Trust me, in a normal straight 1v1, the Vaygr DD will go critical, and the missiles already en-route will kill the Hiigaran DD.
No, it was a straight 85k vs 85k fight.
Could have been the engine thing then. Stats wise, they're roughly equal, but you need to remember that it is MUCH easier to upgrade a Hiig DD than a Vaygr DD. Hiig DDs also have an advantage in clearing out RU ops since their guns can focus on multiple targets at once. The Vaygr missiles are its primary attack and they are major overkill on collectors so Vaygr is less efficient against smaller stuff. On the other, against an experienced player, I'd probably prefer to raid with a Vaygr DD since it is much more likely to get a kill or two in before the other player evacuates his resourcers. Most inexperienced players just panic and let their collectors get slaughtered, however. Also, Vaygr DDs are much better at blasting capture frigates off of their hulls once they've become attached, however since the Hiig guns can't hit them and you have to move a Hiig DD up or down in order for its missile to be able to nail an attached frig.
It is very annoying reading all the posts by people who write that Vaygr is underpowered, 'cause Vaygr tech differently than Hiigarans, meaning that the noobs who have never played anything else than Hiigarans think that the Vaygr teching is the worse of the two races.
:fight:
The specialisation of Vaygr craft means (and I hope every n00b that reads this understands what I mean) that you need to control your craft with care and think things through before you attack, rather than mob up a huge force in one strikegroup to batter the enemy (wich is something I have seen a lot of Hiigaran players do).
Last edited by shadowfiend; 17th Jan 05 at 3:51 AM. Reason: writing error
Seb00 said it all! That's how "we" Vaygr do it.
In general I think it's silly when anybody accuses a game of being imba. A lot of thought goes into these things.
The vaygr are way better than the hiigs at the early rush. Their squads are bigger and they can reasearch faster. Namely they can get the speed upgrade faster than the hiigs. This is probably why I love the vaygr. That and their stripes. The ability to have fast ships is invaluble against the hiigs because a lot of their ships are already a little slow. Another thing is a lot of vaygr ships a quite cheap and have faster production time. Their destroyers and BCs are way better at fending off swarms of fighters, which makes them less vulnerable than hiig capitals. Can't say much for vaygr frigs though. Also, the hypergate system is a little flawed because the gates are too damn weak to begin with. That's where hiigs rule.
I actually love HyperGates. A great tactical advantage that allows you the jump your strike craft behind the enemy while his forces are away. With a full comp of bombers and LCV's your could kill a higgy carrier before enemy can recoup. I think the art of buiding with Vaygr is knowing what to build and when. This means scout/probe your enemies(noobs!!!! Do This in Multiplayer PLEEEAASSEE!!) and build in response to them. And the lovely Infiltrator. When you capturing skills are good, those early DD and TorpFrig rushes will backfire when your enemy is getting fragged by stuff HE built!!!
Onething some players overlook is the sheer destructive force that is the hmf.
Something I have to say...
There has been alot of controversy concerning what fighters are better (Hiig or Vaygr). On a 1v1 basis interceptors actually trash AC when neither are upgraded. 1v1 with one upgrade each, they are about equal. 1v1 with full upgrades, AC trash Int.
Now back to the non upgraded versions. 2v2 Interceptors still beat AC. 3v3 its about equal. Higher than that and the larger numbers of the AC start to overwhelm Int. Remeber were dealing only 7 AC v 5 Int at first, then the numbers jump to 14v10, 21v15, 28v20, and 35v25. Because of the Vaygrs numerical advantage, always outnumber the opponent and yes, their fighters ARE better. Not to mention lance fighters, one of the best ships in the game IMO.
Wow this site is a gem. I just found these forums a week or two ago but I've played my share of HW2, and am going to throw out a few specific builds and strategies. The basics have been thoroughly discussed already.
Thanks for the Carrier/Flagship
I use this one only if there is another Vaygr player. Start with double pump of collectors. The number depends on the map, though I usually go 4/4. Queue 1 mobile refinery on one ship and 2 probes on the other (again depending on which patch needs it more). Immediately move your flagship. I find giving the order to move "across" the patch and a few hundred meters up is optimal for resourcing. Send your carrier off to another patch, mid level and so its left side is toward the patch.
Start building dual fighter facilities when your 4th collector is in production, queue research mod on FS. Queue 6 AC at carrier and 6 at FS. Research lance beams, fighter speed 1. You should have 2-4 AC and your probes will tell you by now if he's going for some vettes. If so get a few quick lances out. Research frigate chassis after fighter speed 1, and this may require a pause or two since you always want to be producing fighters for now. You should have around 10-12 fighter squads (AC/Lance mix as dictated by enemy forces) by the time frigate research finishes, hopefully harassing someone's resource patch.
Research fighter speed 2 and get frigate facilities on the MS and Carrier (I like to let it finish the current fighter before replacing it), keep building fighters from FS in the meantime. Immediately research infiltrator pods, queue frigate speed 1 and armor 1. You can build 2 HMF's while infiltrators are researching, and have 2 more about 80% complete. I immediately build 3/3 infiltrator frigs and put them at the top of the queue, and set rally point toward the nearest Vaygr carrier. Ship captured for the glory of Makaan. You can capture a carrier real fast if you soften it up a little with a few hits from your 2 HMF.
Naturally, you want to take the flagship too. A good player can have a destroyer coming out in time to watch his carrier get taken, assuming he rushed for them after fighters. Well capture that, then take the FS. This is a sweet deal. What I really like about this strat is that, when successful, sets you up pretty damn good, especially in FFA. You are all set to keep pumping HMF's, you may have a new flagship with cap facility and destroyer research, maybe it can produce laser vettes
I like to triple pump HMF's from here on and start getting corvettes for the swarm to take care of the other guys. I let my enemies build destroyers for me and capture them, which is easy once you have a decent flotilla of HMF's threatening everything else.
Standard Build
This is what I usually do on small maps. I actually use it a bit on large ones too, the only difference is I add 2 hyperspace plats and a sensor distortion probe to the build from the fighter carrier after they are max. Anyway..
Start with 3/3 or 4/4 collectors depending on your patches, 1 refinery/2 probes. Again, dual fighter bays when your last pair of collectors are halfway finished, queue research mod on FS. Queue 6 AC at carrier, 5 AC at FS. When research mod is done, fighter speed 1, lance beams.
When this is finished get fighter speed 2, and start a cap ship facility. Pause the cap ship facility when needed to get fighters and speed out. By the time you have 6 AC you should decide if you need lances now or later, but overall you are aiming for a 11/7 AC/Lance mix. Go start raiding a resource op. Research Corvette chassis after fighter speed 2, que carrier after 5th AC from FS.
Build corvette facility on FS, new carrier will produce probes or collectors if needed while building its corvette facility and heading out to service the offensive. Research lasers and double pump em, while continuing to build fighters from your original carrier. Keep the carrier lasers docked until a few from the FS catch up for around 4-5 then unleash em. Meanwhile, your research aims are the carrier production upgrade, corvette upgrades and command systems.
"The Swarm" is 11 AC 7 lance 10 laser vettes and 2 command vettes if you are able to max them both out. Once the command corvs are added I find I rarely lose any strike craft from then on and always have a carrier handy for quick docking. 10 laser vettes absolutely massacre resourcers and carriers and that should be their main focus. In a defended resourcing position my laser target priorities are:
1: Flak Frigates
2: Torpedo Frigates
3: Carriers
4: Collectors
5: Mobile Ref.
1v1s are usually won by now, in FFA grab that juicy 4200 chunk, and max your collectors while establishing a new resource op. Now there are more options. Destroyers, or frigs? You have to make this decision before the swarm is maxed out and have them researched. I prefer another carrier and frigates. You should also start looking at a shipyard because I haven't seen a 5 man FFA yet that someone didn't get a BC or two. May as well be you.
The Minute Man
This is a small map 1v1 strat. Carrier starts on a mobile refinery, fighter facility and research mod, flagship builds nothing. Once the 6 collectors have undocked you scuttle the FS and collect the salvage. Once the refinery is out advance your carrier, queue some AC and research fusion bombs, then improved bombs. The other guy is probably still building collectors and hasnt even got his probe out yet, you can get 2 AC and start on bombers. Produce bombers and research fighter speed upgrades, only build AC when his AC/Int start coming out. Be obnoxious in taking out his fighter facilities, and collectors, in that order. Your carrier will keep advancing and your fighters will keep getting faster, its pretty easy to keep the pressure up but you have to cripple them fast. Do or die.
*edit* All these builds are based on 1000 RU starts, and 1v1 or FFA type gameplay. I never really got into the 3v3's and what not, I'd rather play 6 man FFA, its so rewarding to win.
Last edited by Lord Helmet; 3rd Apr 06 at 7:27 AM.
does anyone know any vaygr vs. vaygr strategies?
i was wondering if you can get out corvetts fast. fast enough to block incoming fighter rushes (also how do you put you avatar on and where can i find cool vaygr pics) :howdy:
Probably not. Let's look basic fighter rushes and a basic vagyr vette rush. I'm going to assume equal numbers of collectors on both sides.
Fighter take 45 seconds to build, and ints/ACs 35 seconds each. This has a start up cost of 900 or 1000 RU depending on race, and a running cost of about 31 ru/sec.
To get vettes, you need a res mod (30 seconds), vettes research (25 seconds), vette facilities (60 seconds) and then you can build your vettes at 45 seconds each. This has a startup cost of 2450 RU and a running cost of about 28 ru/sec.
This means that by the time you're finished your first missile vettes (2x), there will be about 6 ints in your enemy's hands. By the time you've maxed out, even a vay opponent would have time to build a full swarm including lots of lance fighters, and a hiigaran will have been able to switch to torps or pulsars.
I wouldn't say it's a good defensive strat. On the other hand if you surprised an opponent with vettes on a small map, especially if you rushed harder than they did or they were a bit slow, you could probably do a fair amount of damage to their economy if they were just building ints. Missile vettes are great anti-collector weapons. If you managed to squeeze out a few EMP scouts, you can do even more damage by freezing their fighters for a bit (thus keeping your vettes alive longer) and/or preventing their collectors from docking or retreating.
Whenever i play vaygr ( i play rarely homeworld rarely ) i used to think if its not over in 10 - 20 minutes, your changes of survival drop. In the latter game Higaryia (spelling) overpower you in most ways, hyperspace gates are your only real chance after. if im wrong please tell me!
Hey every one,
I only play Vaygr online, and have noticed alot of people making stupid mistake or try to tell me how to play vaygr.
So to give my 2 cent on how to play vaygr here i go.
1. EMP is your friend,
- it should be the second thing you research. You will be able to take on 24 hiigaran fightersor more with your 13 fighters and 5 scouts.
2. Missle corve only
- i know Lazers are nice but missle corves can take out way more things then Lazer, plus it make sure that you win the small ship battle even if you are the only one with them. So always max out Missle corves withh a command corve before making Lazers.
- If you must make 4 lazer for the odd Frigate.
3. Heavy missle frigate
- They are your friend when upgraded in armor. They can take out ions and BC alot better when moving them all the time. If you do not make corve go Frigets onstead of DD.
4. Hyper gates
- I have only reseantly started using these but they are amazing. They can hyper every ting but CC, MS, & BC. Plus your teammates can use them. I usually make them to move my DD up to my two CC which ar pumping HMF.
One last thing, Fire control towers. These are amzing things to have on a BC and CC when attack. they will let your ship live longer and kill quicker.
ALWAYS dock you ships if CC or BC are close. every time you select your Fighters and Corves, dock those at half health or in yellow. I have been able to survive a 1v2 swarm becaues of this.
This stuff works for 3v3, and 2v2 if you have noobs or skills on your team.
yeah, i agree with that even if i am a hiigaran player. but it the hiigaran can do it right, he can neuteralise the fire control tower and anything else on the vaygr players side that can increase ship effectiveness, then his sheer mass of fire power can overwhelm the vaygr before they ever get close. oh and hyperspace gates are VERY vulnerable to a pinging and then sending a few turrets out to guard/destroy anything that comes through it while your marine frigs cap it. hyperspace gates also work in reverse, so it's satisfying to see your fleet hyper in right next to their shipyard/flagship and blow it to some more space junk for collectors to use. dunno if the 'reverse gate' tactic works online, as I have had probs trying to get it to even start up recently, let alone connect to the lobby rooms
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