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I can never seem to win against Chaos with IG if they start by building cultists with grenade launchers. They force me to surrender map control until T2 when I can counter with priests or hellhounds, and by the time I have a force that can counter them and go back on the offensive, they've tiered up and are hitting me with those damned indestructible PSM squads. The attached is a pretty typical instance of this kind of fight. What did I do wrong? What did I do right?
theres a plaenty of atctic you can use... turret placement, cs with psyker & some commies to tie up cults squads... tactica BO.. (bcos gm nades>cults nades..)
Seriously, you shouldnt have any kind of problem vs nade cults...
- Rem tene verba sequentur -
I prefer the 2 GM fast tech build against chaos. But if you really wanna stick with the 3 GM build then you have to have a few chims. That's not even optional, even before a tactica.
You teched far too fast leaving points open for decapping and had limited options once you reached T2. I like to have 2 or 3 LP2's before teching, but at the very least you need every point to be LP'd. Cult nades are killer, but they do crap against buildings so it's really difficult for them to touch your eco. You did good counter harrassment, but once you reached T2 and were able to chase off the cults, you then chased them around and let him tech.
My best recommendation would be to do exactly the same against cult nades that you would do against raptors; ignore them as best you can and counter harrass his base by killing his heretics with the CS and take down his RAX if he lets you. He essentially has to respond to that or suffer a huge setback. It's all about multi-tasking so your CS doesn't die from the nades that he's using to stop you whilst you recap (and are hopefully teching at the same time). It's a tried and true method which has led to a general consensus that IG>chaos.
Honestly though, if you see vehicles your top priority is definitely not to upgrade your Gmen but to get out some hard-AV (sents) and a psyker wouldn't have hurt. Use the CS to kill his heretics, and I'm sure you'll do fine next time.
be l33t and tie up nade cults with your CS & TPs! (i'm serious)
watch out tho, cultist builds can tech at insane speed to T3, pretty much skipping any tier 2 unit production. Remember that chaos t3 doesn't need a barrack to pump out PSM and oblits, so you have to tech fast and manage to get a shitton of priest+ plasma (and a chim) by that time or you're pretty much screwed.
so you have possibly 2 ways, but really i find this really map dependant: going 2 GM+CS
and tech as fast as you can, but if the chaos player is smart enough he will fight on 2 sides spreading his cults squads (usually 5 or 6), and retreat the force which meets the CS, and you're gonna be in trouble. OR, drop a turret on one side and defend the other with the CS. GM with grenades aren't a viable option in my opinion, nade cults will outsquad 'em by a large number, so it's pretty pointless. The crucial factor is to get the upper hand in the harass war, cults nades suck against commanders, so you could be able to push him back. ah, rape his gens. that hurts. a lot. In tier 2, my advice would be going for the 3rd GM squad and the commie, plasma and usual stuff, and the chimera o' course. You could risk popping out a hellound to get rid of the naders, but it's dangerous, since you might found that you wasted time and face his T3. remember, 3 lp2 are what a chaos player needs to go T3 in a decent time, and using a cult build he should have already 2-3 gens by the time he presses the t2 button
Against I.G. a Chaos Grenade Launcher build will still need the RAX, as you'll need the Chaos Lord or Chaos Marines still to be able to harm the I.G.'s commander units (Command Squad, individual Commies, Psykers, and Techpriests - plenty of choice to stop the Grenade Launchers).
#6
Uhhh grenade launchers do a real number on the CS since the splash damage effectively doubles or tripples the DPS potential. I have run into cultist grenades plenty of times with my CS and was very lucky to escape with the constant knockdown and splash damage. Grenade launcher damage isn't that great vs commanders but all the IG tier 1 heroes have sub-par HP and are easy pickings if singled out.
Chriss is that IG hater he wanted them to nerf everything about igs
umm? Cultist nades have no set-up time and great AoE, it's like they were custom built to kill GM.(bcos gm nades>cults nades..)
Troubleshooter on IG: Tier 4 that looks alot like tier 2, only with the second most massive building attempting to give birth to the largest unit which then promptly gets deleted so you can then move said 2 ton baby out of the rats nest called your base.
:O iirc gm nades have large splash dmg & more dmg...
Guardsmen grenades do much more damage, but have a smaller AOE(Guardsmen have an AOE of 2.5, while cultists have an AOE of 4).
From what I remember of other topics, a cultist squad can keep running while the player presses 'q' every three seconds and remain pretty much unscathed from guardsmen who are given no time to set up.
Cultists: Run. Stop. Shoot. Run. Stop. Shoot. Run. Stop. Shoot.umm? Cultist nades have no set-up time and great AoE, it's like they were custom built to kill GM.
Gaurdsmen: Run. Stop. Get blasted with 3s set-up time. Run back to already out of range cultists. Continue to die.
Cultist Grenades -> Guardsmen Grenades.
Cultists also -> Guardsmen, as they're similiar but more cost effective. Only disadvantage is the reinforce time really, and lack of ability to hurt heavy infantry at range without special weapons (don't worry about infantry_med though, Cultists aren't too shabby against them at range even without Gren. Lauchers).
But anyway yes, I know from personal experience that a Command Squad (with a Priest and a whatever of course), and Commissar (x2+) rush, with a squad or two of Guardsmen in support, will make short work of Cultist 'nade squads unless the CSM player has CSMs or the Chaos Lord to try to fight the Commanders. As mentioned, don't forget you can use your Techpriests too...some aggressive turreting might be in order, or simply another tie-up squad.
cults<<gm in 1v1.. the reinforce rate is what kill the chaos player...
it depends, if you mean cc, gm can kill medium sized cult squads, but large squads will break the gm before the cults die. if the cults go in reinforced (with rofl quick reinforce time) then they should have no trouble.
it's a moot point anyway though because with no set-up grenades that have big aoe (they'll be hitting 2+ gm per shot) a gm squad, even with commie attached to negate morale issues, will get cut.
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