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I was just curious if people would like to see the same engine for a possible(if not inevitable) DOW2 but obviously an updated versoin of the current engine (pathing fix, graphics, etc.) or the COH engine.
I personally love the DOW engine. I played COH and it was cool but not my style. The problem for me was the gameplay was too realistic and a bit more complex then DOW.
The original engine made it a hit success so for me I say if it ain't broke don't fix it(just update it)
Thoughts? Opinions?
Gameplay Too realistic? Interesting comment.
I think the current Engine is good, except that it has a few problems.
1) Actual damage and animations are independent. For example, you see a Broadside shooting its railgun, but the actual calculation of damage doesn't happen the exact time the beam makes contact with the target. normally a person doesn't notice unless you look hard.
2) Visual aspects of shots. Things go through things and makes no sense. Bullets go through walls and things. Making bullets go through friendly units is understandable and I don't think there is a problem. But I can't stand seeing a Space Marine shooting through a wall. Much less a missile going through a building.
I think DoW 2 needs its own engine. I don't want it to have a modified CoH engine cause I really think that DoWs greatness deserves its own engine.
#3
Don't confuse the Essence engine with the gameplay mechanics of Company of Heroes. Based on the new engine, they could easily create a game that plays like dawn of War but has the added possibilities of collision checking for weapons fire, far more advanced cover and LOS, Havoc physics elements and ragdoll physics, dX10 support and vast improvements in graphics, better sound mechanics, and so on.
DoW's Impossible Creatures engine is doing really well still, but they're really pushing the last out of it, and it won't be fit for future competition.
Yea I didn't like turning the tanks to face the enemy instead of a simple right click, there was some other "realistic" things that I didn't like but I don't remember as I only played the demo and that was a few years ago.Gameplay Too realistic? Interesting comment.
Sometimes simpler is funner
#5
Yeah... but CoH did have a lot of cool things that should not be missed, besides, using the Essence engine doesn't mean it should play like CoH as Riess says. It would just mean that Relic has more opportunities to make it more fun, i mean i would love to see the cover system from CoH in DoW, and using buildings wouldn't go unnoticed, and who knows what else you could do with DoW with the essence engine ?
#6
This thread is about what you would like to see, not which combination of games is win or good. One line replies depending on their substance will be deleted.
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A new engine which properly uses line of sight and MORE COVER (seems there was plenty in earlier DoW maps, now not so much at all). I haven't played CoH yet, but it sounds as if that one would work just fine.
As long as it can render at least 50 quarts of blood & gore per second, it's fine by me.
I wouldn't worry the essence engine can render people being quatered, halfed, headshoted, etc... so it should be able to render 50 quarts of blood & gore per second
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It must be the morbid little kid in me, but I REALLY enjoy the all-out carnage in DoW. It's part of what really sets it apart from any other game in the genre, imho. You can say its excessive and superficial all you want, but at the same time you cannot deny that DoW is a computerized depiction of war which definitely LOOKS like a freakin' warzone.
But .. quartered, halved and head-shotted? You have piqued my interest, sir! I say Essence Engine, with 66% more blood! For the Blood God, of course.
And if they can get line-of-sight mechanics and better cover in the deal then all the better!
Neither. New engine FTW. IMO.
I'm sure any new engine will offer major improvements. The most important thing about any major update to DOW should be a complete resolution to the NAT negotiation problems ... they ruin the game for so many people.
I don't know how things will go but i believe that dow should be kept streamlined and more simple and accesible than coh but i also believe that it should become more customisable with different tech trees and options, what troubles me though is what the heck are they gonna do with the races that are gonna be left out a solution would be a hybrid engine that can somehow port things from the current dow although i don't know if that is possible.
Just sticking old factions in a new game as they were, isn't exactly a good idea in the first place, regardless of whether or not it can be done. It will really clash with newer elements and seem tacked on.
The DoW engine as far as I know, has been pushed to it's limit and now it's time to let go. To let go of no real collision for projectiles and damage all just being calculated hits and misses regardless of the geometry that we see on our screen. It's like playing a pen and paper game if you think about it, though that's not to say that DoW was not a good game in it's time, it's simply that it's time is over now and better technologies are available.
If they even bother to make a DoW2, I'd like to see it on an improved essence engine or something newer. Furthermore I'd like to see them try and make the factions play more differently. They did a good on some things in Opposing Fronts that made the factions different, but it got very complicated very quickly and sometimes it just didn't work that well because a lot of the basics were spread out to a bunch of different units and it becomes a rush match before the players even establish themselves.
Wait weavern i was not talking about the game i was talking about half life 2 havoc engine i think is what its called. I was saying the game would look great on the havoc engine due to its physics system and great graphics >.>
Also they should start off with the first factions in dow then move more in with expansion in same order that way they can slowly balance them out with ease.
The Essence Engine uses the Havok physics engine that your speaking of that was used in Half Life 2, although it more updated and stuff since it a 2006 Havok physics engine.
Thomas! =D Jokes aside I would probably like to see the current engine upgraded. Fix and expand in a few areas (air units), improve the graphics slightly (textures/maps) and some simple rescaling (Vehicles/air units). Possibly more interactive terrain. Shifting to a new engine would most likely require much higher specs, and your average gamer doesn’t own a super computer.
lol n00b
Please Relic, you are so much better than EA. For the love of all that is Good, remember to never, EVER make DoW 2 a Rush Match.it becomes a rush match before the players even establish themselves.
I still don't entirely see a purpose for air units. If you consider the average tabletop game of DoW, I don't think air units are commonly implemented. Even if they were more smoothly integrated, I don't know that they'd be entirely needed; I kind of like DoW as a ground war-centric game. I'd rather see more emphasis on that, and possibly some supplemental inclusion of air units (for drops, airstrikes) rather than just "lets give every army a token air unit".
Basically, as far as engines: I hope that regardless of which engine they end up with, they keep the core gameplay of DoW straight to its established formula.
I think everyone feels that way really, but its more of a selling point if the units are controlable.
I think a major problem with the current flying units is that they just appear as something floating above ground units, but not really acting differently otherwise. If they were to swoop in or make wide banks while turning, they'd seem more like there were actually different than other units and useful in that right, but to really achieve the effect, units would have to actually be able to miss (with projectiles hitting targets triggering damage rather than an attack + roll of hits and misses causing subtracting from health) and I've yet to see that done in the current engine, while I'm pretty sure that it's possible in the Essence Engine.
I'd like to see the same type of gameplay, but not the same gameplay entirely, afterall, if I wanted that, I could just play Dawn of War
Yeah the current DoW engine is good but they NEED to fix the air units cause honestly most of the air units in the WH40k universe dont hover in mid air, i was really let down when i Downloaded the demo and built my 1st air unit for the DE man DoW:SS feels like
Starcraft i do hope this gets remedied in DoW2 or most ignorant people will start comparing the DoW series to starcraft.
I was a die-hard DoW fan about a year ago, and I didn't really have any interest in CoH. World War II? I got enough of that at work. But now that I've played CoH and am WHOLELY addicted to it, I think I'd be really disappointed if the gameplay features from CoH weren't present in the next full DoW sequel.
Suppression, cone-of-fire, line-of-sight, projectile lobbing, armor-facing, off-map special-abilities, multiple resource node-types, VP's? HELL YES. CoH revolutionized RTS for me, I hadn't felt that way since Warcraft II.
But the thing is, I definitely fell in love with the DoW universe, and I'm dying to see these advancements and more in the 40K realm. Not to mention all of the gameplay aspects that were present in DoW but not in CoH: melee combat, jump jets, drop pods, and disruption effects to name a few. I really do believe it can all be integrated elegantly, and without losing that gritty, brawling feel that DoW has. It would get a bit more tactical, but I think people would come to embrace it.
In terms of the rendering, you could probably take the current Essence Engine, let the DoW Art Directors go wild, and you would have a goregous game. But there are a lot of tricks that have been introduced in recent titles( Ambient Occlusion and Motion Blur as post-processes for example ) that would certainly benefit an upgraded engine.
All in all, I'd prefer to wait for the most features and polish possible. New engine built on the success of the past = FTW
But of course... there's always the Homeworld 3 rumors. So maybe this is farther off than people think.
It'd be completely removed from everything we know as Dawn of War, but the World in Conflict engine is an awesome engine for an RTS and a Warhammer 40k conversion of it would undoubtedly be awesome. In that regard, I highly doubt Relic would license any other engine when they're just as capable (and lauded) for their own engine(s).
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distance thing as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things. - Miyamoto Musashi
I believe they need to update the engine at the very least if not revamp the engine to improve it a bit...
I think the success and obviously large fanbase of W40k and DOW warrant the utmost attention of relic. Honestly I don't think too many people(especially on these forums) could disagree with me about the success of DOW. Not to mention the 3 expansions theyve pumped out of it.
I would be genuinely upset to see DOW on the essence, impossible creatures, or any other engine. Does it not deserve its own??? Just my opinion--not like I wouldn't buy it if it were on one of the other engines
@jujumbura
I was a die-hard DoW fan about a year ago, and I didn't really have any interest in CoH. World War II? I got enough of that at work. But now that I've played CoH and am WHOLELY addicted to it, I think I'd be really disappointed if the gameplay features from CoH weren't present in the next full DoW sequel.
Suppression, cone-of-fire, line-of-sight, projectile lobbing, armor-facing, off-map special-abilities, multiple resource node-types, VP's? HELL YES. CoH revolutionized RTS for me, I hadn't felt that way since Warcraft II.
I can't agree with this more.
Not only that, but the mechanics you've pointed out in para #2 of the quote above are *much* more in keeping with the spirit of the Tabletop game as well.
I'd much rather have a smaller, more "real" experience. 1 or 2 dreds owning the map makes them the powerful uber units they are, not just another "tank" to churn out.
Yeah, I've used the dred swarm before, but it's unfluffy as heck and lessens their individual value.
Plus, I could see fluffire Space Marines as well, there 5-10 of these guys just blow through a 30 man IG or traitor guard platoon.
actually i want them to solve the online gaming issues we encounter now in DC. If they can do it. i will be very happy
They wouldn't make a new engine for DoW 2. You know how much money that'd cost? They'd use there perfectly fine Essence Engine.
really? i play dow online a lot but not coh, can anyone tell me if they have FFA and QS in COH. if not, I stick to DOW, cause it is superior in every way, but dow is still best.
like comparing star trek the next generation to star trek.
I understand it takes money to make a new game engine. But Warhammer 40k needs its own. I'm not gonna be happy with DoW 2 using a game engine designed for another game. Take DoW now. Amazing. But fluff wise problematic, and you can shoot through stuff.They wouldn't make a new engine for DoW 2. You know how much money that'd cost? They'd use there perfectly fine Essence Engine.
Any engine that can support these 3 words:
"Co-op RTS"
Imagine being able to play through a campaign mission with a friend.
Last edited by widowson; 30th Jan 08 at 10:05 AM.
Any future dawn of war game should include the ability to squish units by tanks. No way is the bane blade stopping for some cultists.
Seriously though... a realistic simulation of enemies getting squished would be good... a tank at full speed should be able to barrel through a few space marines or sluggas, but not through a few hundred of them or a full group of terminators.
The Mullet is power distilled to pure perfection.
How 'bout Battlfleet Gotic on a heavily modified HW2 engine? :P
If you're really going to go that far, I'd much rather Relic license the Black Sun engine from the revolutionary space combat game Nexus: The Jupiter Incident for a Battlefleet Gothic game, since the combat with that engine is truly 3D instead of being limited to a largely 2D plane.Asur: How 'bout Battlfleet Gotic on a heavily modified HW2 engine? :P
With the Black Sun engine, ships can go anywhere the map allows, in any direction, in any orientation, all the better to outflank, blast the components of enemy ships, and give the impression that you really are in the infinity of space, rather than a bunch of 2D planes piled on top of each other (as was the case in Hegemonia: The Solon Heritage, where you could send your ships to any altitude but they would always align themselves with a predetermined 2D plane), or worst of all, the "invisible pizza box" of Star Trek Legacy.
But to keep this on topic, I would agree that the Impossible Creatures engine is really out-of-date and should not be used for DOW2. We need things as simple as line of sight (which would make things like retreating infantry units work better and stop the annoying sight of projectiles passing right through an intervening hill), better melee combat, things as simple as as a scroll bar for the ability/build list so the developers are not limited to 16 buildings or abilities in the list, and players are not limited to selecting 10 squads worth of units (they could just use a scroll bar to view more of the list).
Much could be accomplished here with a suitable new engine.
#34
Perhaps this should be in another thread ? In any case, beyond the awesome cover system from CoH, i wouldn't mind to be able to pick up enemy heavy weapon.. within reason of course. Of course there are thigns from CoH i don't want to see in DoW 2 either, but that is another story.
i warn you Frigidair44, it has to be done carefully. Computers have a habit of being hellishly good at crushing your men with multiple tanks while you move one of them round like its a go kart.
plus, i doubt you could really roll a rhino over a space marine in power armour without it taking damage to the treads.
#36
Actually, they did it well in CoH, the men just ran away if they could.
Interesting. A good Idea. Maybe possible in Risk-Style campaigns? But your way of thinking is decades ahead of current video gaming.
An updated (graphics and gameplay) CoH engine that can compete with the visuals coming out for SC2.
I love the cover mechanics of Relic's games in the past years, and would love to see it continue. I think the next evolution should include occupy-able buildings.
You guys need to check out this thread,
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums...ic_id=26158515
I want an engine that is going to give them no excuses not to put Tyranids in. I'd also like an egine that can handle a lot of detail, and units more on a massive scale. Even though Relic seems to prefer smalelr scale RTS games.
I can't get this picture of DoW 2 outta my head of hundreds or thousands of Tyranids swarming over a battlefield towards a line of entrenched IG.
Since we're talking engines my vote goes for Trinity 2 . I'm not shure what physics engine shoud be used but it has to be a very good one .
TBH i expect that DoW2 looks at least like a modern day shooter in terms of quality .
Throwing the Havok engine in with Trinity would be fun.
Havoc 2 whit Trinity 2 hmmm
God i hope they don't use the COH engine . The terains looks quite horid .
Maybe they can use the same engine but with some sort of complete overhaul. Updated graphics (would put C&C 3, SupCom, WiC to shame), Bullets don't go THROUGH STUFF. Etc.
But they might as well make a new engine.
#45
What are you referring to here ?Interesting. A good Idea. Maybe possible in Risk-Style campaigns? But your way of thinking is decades ahead of current video gaming.
Well the DoW engine already puts C&C 3 to shame.. and it would be a bit dumb to already throw away that awesome essence engine without even taking it further, which i am quite certain it can be taken.Maybe they can use the same engine but with some sort of complete overhaul. Updated graphics (would put C&C 3, SupCom, WiC to shame), Bullets don't go THROUGH STUFF. Etc.
But they might as well make a new engine.
Dane: I was apparently outposted big time. So much even I forgot what I was talking about.
anyways. I mean. Yeah... I know the current DoW engine is old, but if it comes to money, maybe a complete rehaul is cheaper than a new one?
To answer this topic :
I would like how cover work in COH to be implemented in DOW.
It always fun to watch how your infantries use any obstacle as cover... even your own base buildings.
So, I finally actually GOT CoH and, yes, definitely Essence engine or some tweaked version thereof. Not only does it look great visually, it scales back really well and will work acceptably with less capable systems. The cover dynamics and much more interactive environment make the engine much more interesting to play on as well as look at.
There is definitely a gap in terms of overall gameplay mechanics but the core improvements between DoW's engine and the Essence engine are pretty appreciable to me. And SOME of the mechanics might even translate well into making DoW better and more interesting, though it should definitely still retain its faster-pace, slightly less technical combat.
I'd support a move to a new engine for Dawn of War 2, and seeing as hopefully THQ would be smart enough to let Relic handle it. I would love to see it used within the essence engine.
Relic did a wonderful job pushing and overhauling the current tech for DoW (Impossible Creatures), but the squad dynamics, cover system, pinning, line of sight, etc would all be welcome additions.
My only fear would be that Dawn of War would become "stream-lined" and "user-friendly". The gritty mature universe needs to be maintained (Twitching corpses on chaos buildings for example), melee combat, the morale system (refined), etc.
It just needs to still "feel" like we're playing a Dawn of War game, not Company of Heros with a facelift.
Hope that made sense.
Well, CoH is still plenty violent, just realistically so. They obviously did not shy away from making it deserving of its M rating.
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