Server issues warrant a hot fix

[DribbleSack]

This really is getting past a joke. Yet another unscheduled outage from Relic Online. The server overload issues have been known about since late December. They shouldn't have happended in the first place if there was any kind of capacity management system in place but regardless, they absolutely warrant a hot fix.

It's all well and good including this in the beta patch but that hasn't even gone in to QA yet (which will take another 2 weeks). The server related fixes should be released ASAP as a hot fix ... NOT held back in the beta. I really don't follow the logic in this. By all means, beta the automatch and balance changes, but not fundamental stability fixes.

I really am stupified how Relic and THQ think this is the best approach. I've given up promoting this game to my online buddies because most of them haven't got the patience to put up with all of the stability and connection issues. After more than a year and yet there are STILL fundamental NAT traversal issues that have not been addressed. I hear talk of these being looked at in the beta but the change logs show little or nothing about NAT traversal issues. Just AutoMatch connectivity.

On top of that there are load freezes, sync errors, drop outs. This has to be the most unstable game I have ever played. If it wasn't such a good game I would have given up on it a long time ago. Shame Relic can't provide the same quality of support as the game content and production values. And before the fanboys jump in, lots of patches does not equal quality support. Lots of patches that don't work first time, break new things or undo previous fixes does not equal good quality.

[Moe]

By all means, beta the automatch and balance changes, but not fundamental stability fixes.

Fundamental stability fixes don't have to be tested? I don't follow your logic.

[Kitn0]

Fundamental stability fixes don't have to be tested? I don't follow your logic.

Oh, so in that case, where's the logic in not implementing those fundamental stability fixes that do not require testing right now?

[scoiatollo]

The point is they need testing now, that's the reason why the beta exists...

[Moe]

Oh, so in that case, where's the logic in not implementing those fundamental stability fixes that do not require testing right now?

Why wouldn't they require testing?

[Kitn0]

What? Bah, you said in your original post they don't need to be tested. Were you just guessing? Meh im confused.

[scoiatollo]

Sarcasm is a wonderful thing isn't it...

[Moe]

Bah, you said in your original post they don't need to be tested

The question mark at the end of the sentence was supposed to indicate that it was a question, not a statement.

[DribbleSack]

More derailing bullshit. I NEVER said the server fixes shouldn't be tested. I said that they should be released as a hot fix and not held back as part of a broader beta test for team automatch functionality and balance fixes. Hot fixes still need testing ffs.

[scoiatollo]

The hotfix get tested in the beta! You shouldn't complain that it didn't get released, Relic tried 2 test where they wanted 1000 people joining the Beta servers to know if it work properly, the first time there were aroun 100, the second time 130. If you want the fix to be tested you should have joined the beta.

[Moe]

More derailing bullshit.

Look I left this thread open because the server stability is annoying a lot of people and I think it deserves to be discussed, but if all you're going to do is rant and be hostile then I really don't see the point in letting it run any longer.

[sipaldi]

Yeah it is annoying. I have been in the house all weekend and it has dropped on me 4 times now. Obviously i dont mind now and then but this is all the time!!!
I certainly have no other online games with server stability issues like this. Whats running the server hub, a zx64?

[DribbleSack]

@ Moe - the topic does deserve discussion. But it's very annoying when responders bypass the central point of a post just to nitpick.

[GuardsmanX]

Just a question, do we get disputes when our games end because of a Relic Online server problem? I hope it doesn't affect a player's credibility rating.

[Moe]

@ Moe - the topic does deserve discussion. But it's very annoying when responders bypass the central point of a post just to nitpick.

I wasn't trying to nitpick. If the fixes are part of some larger server adjustment (and considering the current quality of the online service I think it's fair to assume that this isn't something that can be fixed by changing a few variables - at this point it seems like there's an underlying issue here) they're not going to be hotfixable and probably require some more work. Additionally I'd rather have them test the crap out of the fixes and endure a few more weeks of instability than having them deploy a half-baked solution that won't solve the problem.

[TsaosChicken]

While I'm all for discussing the issue, I don't understand what the point is since nothing we say or do here will change Relics plans.

If the problem is that nobody was playing the beta and that didn't give them an accurate idea of where the problem lies then we should play the beta.

However, the regular server should be watched and any changes made in the beta could easily be instituted into RO with a minor, yet necessary, outage

[macca7]

i`m scared to try the beta incase it wrecks my gaming like the last patch did, i had to reinstall the 1st coh then patch right up which took 4ever,then i had to install opposing fronts,dont know if i can b bothered with that lot again sorry

[scoiatollo]

You download the beta patch, it creates a copy of CoH on your HDD that has nothing to do with your original installed version and enjoy a more balanced game. The only case where you have to reinstall the game would be if you have modified some files.

[lance81]

So what do you suggest Relic does if they implement this "hotfix" without testing it properly and for some reason it makes things worse???????

[DribbleSack]

** bites lip and exercises considerable restraint **

Both full patches and hot fixes need to be tested. I am *NOT* not suggesting otherwise.

What I *AM* suggesting is that the server side issues (which Remy from Relic has confirmed are already known and fixed) should be released as a hot fix rather than as part of the team automatch and balance fixes they are continuing to work on. Code can still be tested by Relic internally - there is no requirement for it have to go through the beta. If this was so, how can they have tested the multitude of patches that have already been released prior to the beta.

With the typical QA cycle of two weeks, we are looking at mid-late February before the next retail patch. That will have been 6-8 weeks since the frequent capacity crashes have been taking place. If a fix for them already exists then it should be released through Relic's established hot fix process (which includes testing) as a priority.

Relic are choosing to subject it's customers to repeated crashes and outages unnecessarily. Team AutoMatch and balance fixes (however well anticipated) are not as important as server stability.

[macca7]

so do u still need the disk to play the beta after patching or si it not nescessary

[scoiatollo]

You don't even need to own the game to play it. If you enter the 0s as your cdkey it will work as well.

[mukkel]

Hi everyone,

Just to clarify a few things in regards to the server. Not all stability issues have been resolved by Quazal, and we are still awaiting a couple more fixes from them before we can push these server updates live. The upside is that this gives us more time to balance gameplay and fix more automatch issues.

We want to get this patch out to you as soon as possible. Playing the beta is the best way for this to happen. Break our beta server!

mukkel

[CaptHurricane]

I started a thread last week about beta vs retail priority.

I got so pissed off with games getting interupted. So I did like mukel suggests above and spent 3 days playing, mainly 1v1, in the beta.

I have to admit I had a fucking great time too. ;-)

You mighthave to wait a while longer for a game or ask in the lobby but its not that bad and once there are over 100 people on its not much different from production. There is more of a sense of community in the chat rooms and the people i met seemed friendlier and more into the game for it's own sake than usual.

Yoi do have to be a bit flexible because the standard of play you will meet varies much more than in retail. You could play Koda one game and someone who has just installled because the beta is free the next. I did ;-)

But that just adds to the fun if you can take the knocks. Give it a go folks.

edit: Forgot to mention.

If you do not own a lawyer's kid spec PC and cannot run CoH at max settings in vanilla then it will be better for you and the people you play with in the beta if you turn options down a little further.

The beta has not been optimised for performance yet so if you are marginal but usually ok in retail you will lag a bit in beta.

[kenty900]

Any hint of what fixes quazzal are working on? Any specific issues?

[scoiatollo]

Doesn't really matter as long as they are working on them

[kenty900]

Fair point

[Counting Crows]

I understand where you’re coming from but I have to agree with dribble as i keep finding my friends unable to connect to all games. Games crashing for no reason and then in game sync errors with people I’ve been playing with all day.

Before you ask yes i have forward my ports and mine is ok apart from the sync errors and random crashing.

I just hope that you get it right in the tests your doing so that this dose not continue.

Cheers Crows

[mukkel]

We've fixed the beta so that you can now select low graphic settings. Sorry about not fixing this earlier, it was carry-over from the previous beta when OF originally shipped.

mukkel

[DribbleSack]

Relic have got a strange sense of priority here. It's now over two months since the daily outages started and still we STILL haven't seen any server side stability fixes. The balance beta continues with almost daily patches but no ETA for the retail release. On past experience, it will take at least 2 weeks of testing once the retail patch is released to the THQ quality assurance team so in all likelihood it will be March before we see a retail patch.

Meanwhile, customers are expected to put up with daily outages and dropped games. How on earth does Relic expect to retain people's interest if it can't keep it's online service running? I find it incredulous that there hasn't been a hot fix for the server stability issues.

[Cryogen]

Unfortunately a hotfix just isnt possible.

The beta is running different versions of quazals in game networking (NetZ) as well as their server (Rendezvous). In fact its 3 versions past the version we shipped with COH. (Incidentally NAT negotiation improved too)

The big problem is that the new server code required changes throughout all our server scripts, and is incompatible with networking code inside the client currently in use in retail. We cant pick and choose just one part, it all goes together. Believe me if we could easily fix the problems with a hotfix we'd LOVE to.

PS: Also be aware we dont normally do release notes for server changes. Theres been several server fixes during this beta but the only visible symptom is a server reboot.

cheers,
Ryan

[DribbleSack]

Thanks for the info Cryo. Whilst I appreciate where you're coming from, it still seems inappropriate to delay the implementation of a fundamental retail fix for non-essential balance tweaks. Why not baseline; release the retail patch now; and then continue with the balance beta.

It is truly astonishing that known issues - which have been causing several unscheduled outages a day - have still not been fixed after over 7 weeks. At the very least, you should implement the fix that allows players to complete their game if the server goes down. I've been dropped out of 2 of the 4 games I've played today because of the server drops.

This has been managed and communicated poorly from the start. There has been a severe error in judgement from whomever is calling the shots at THQ/Relic.

[lance81]

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe they havent finished tuning the new sever code yet????

Or maybe they want to test it more in BETA before they ship it because they want to fix all the server issues once and for all...

Just some food for thought.