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Unofficial Soulstorm changelog

  1. Child's Play Donor Dawn of War Senior Member  #1
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    Unofficial Soulstorm changelog

    This started as a changelog based on the demo, but has now been updated using the final game and Indolence's semi-official changelog. I'm considering this list complete now. If you spot something missing/wrong, double check then bring it up and I'll correct it, but I'm not checking out random things anymore. I've spoiler'd the old intro since it's no longer relevant, but I don't want to just delete that much of my own writing.

    Make sure you check the bugfix list for a ton more changes in Soulstorm.

    no longer relevant



    Global:
    * All tier upgrades are more expensive (specifics below)
    * All transports now have 2 slots

    Space Marines:
    * Scout Marines build cost increased from 90/0 to 100/0, reinforce cost remains the same
    * Scout Flamers cost decreased to 30/10 from 40/10
    * Scout Marine Infiltration Research now requires a Monastery
    * Force Commander cost reduced from 260/50 to 220/50
    * Tactical Missile Launcher reload increased to 5.75 s from 5 s
    * Tactical Missile Launcher cost reduced to 50/10 from 60/15 and 8 s from 10 s
    * Health and damage upgrades have been split into two researches each (50/30 first, 100/50 second), mostly same bonuses between the two (ASMs get just +5% from first health research) but same total bonuses to all units. The first research pair has been pushed up to Tier 1, the second pair is still in Tier 2. The damage research in each pair requires the health research of that pair.
    * Space Marine Squads only get 4 heavy weapons with Heavy Weapon Increase, not 5
    * Grey Knights need a Sacred Artifact now
    * Grey Knight Halberd piercing vs commander reduced to 30 from 45
    * Word of the Emperor Research cost increased to 75/40 from 50/40
    * Battlecry Research cost reduced to 100/50 and 60 s from 150/75 and 80 s
    * Commander Veteran and Hero Upgrades cost reduced to 40 s from 45 s
    * Secondary 2x healing aura of Apothecary/Chaplain reduced to 1.5x from 2x
    * Skull Probe cost reduced to 65/0 from 75/0 and 18 s from 20 s
    * Skull Probe health increased to 225 from 200
    * Whirlwind support cap decreased to 4 from 5, damage reduced to 300-450 from 348-532, morale damage reduced to 50 from 60
    * Missile Turret piercing increased against inf_high (57.4 DPS up from 10.0 DPS)
    * Monastery cost increased to 300/125 and 90 s from 250/105 and 80 s
    * Fortress Monastery cost increased to 340/340 and 100 s and 300/300 and 90 s
    * Heavy Armor Deployment cost increased to 450/450 and 100 s from 400/400 and 96 s

    Chaos:
    * Chaos Space Marine Plasma damage reduced to 105-115 from 115-130
    * Chaos Frag Grenades range increased to 25 from 20
    * Heavy Weapon Increase now requires Desecrated Fortress add-on
    * Aspiring Champion's Fear Aura now also gives +1 health regeneration and provides +125 health instead of +100
    * Berzerk Fury now requires a Desecrated Fortress
    * Raptor Flamers cost reduced to 35/10 from 50/10 and 10 s from 12 s
    * Horror Squad piercing v building_high increased to 32 from 25.286
    * Possessed Space Marines cost increased to 260/120 from 220/100, reinforce cost increased to 65/30 from 55/25, and they now use two slots in a transport
    * Obliterators cost increased to 300/105 from 240/75 and reinforce cost increased to 100/35 from 80/25
    * Chains of Torment range reduced to 25 from 40, initial delay increased to 2 s from 1 s
    * Desecrated Fortress cost increased to 325/125 and 90 s from 300/105 and 80 s
    * Unholy Monastery cost increased to 340/340 and 100 s from 300/300 and 90 s
    * Chaos Energies cost increased to 450/450 from 400/400
    * Chaos Armory has cost decreased to 175/50 from 200/75
    * Daemon Pit unload time increased to 15 s from 5 s

    Eldar:
    * Mysticism cost reduced to 125/65 from 150/75 and 50 s from 55 s
    * Warlock damage bonus now requires Mysticism
    * Warlocks now require an Aspect Portal
    * Ranger Infiltration cost increased to 75/75 from 50/50
    * War Shout morale damage increased to 65 from 50, cooldown increased to 90 s from 75 s
    * Warp Spider Squads and the Seer Council now use 2 slots in Falcons/Webways
    * Call of War cost reduced to 60 s from 70 s
    * Armor 1 now increase Banshee health by 90 instead of 15% (gain of 32.25 HP before CoW, 3 HP after) and Banshee Exarch by 235 instead of 30% (gain of 104.5 HP before CoW, loss of 2 HP after)
    * Armor 2 now increases Banshee health by 200 instead of 15% (gain 3 HP with CoW) and Banshee Exarchs by 205 (loss of 2 HP with CoW)
    * Warlocks and Exarchs no longer provide a bonus to Squad Cap
    * Farseer mass increased to 22 from 16
    * Imbue: Fortune cost reduced to 75/35 from 100/50 and 39 s from 45 s
    * Imbue: Eldritch Storm cost reduced to 125/40 from 150/50 and 50 s from 70 s
    * Eldritch Storm damage increased to 200-240 from 180-220, piercing against infantry increased and against vehicles reduced to 25 from 12/100 respectively
    * Farseer Veteran Upgrade cost reduced to 39 s from 45 s, Farseer Hero Upgrade cost reduced to 50 s from 60 s
    * Soul Shrine cost increased to 225/225 from 200/200
    * Mobilize for War cost increased to 340/340 and 100 s from 300/300 and 90 s
    * Annihilate the Enemy cost increased to 350/350 and 100 s from 300/300 and 90 s

    Orks:
    * Kustom Gadgitz no longer increases build time of Big Mek
    * More Sluggas is a Tier 4 research now
    * Pile O' Gunz! cost increased to 170/70 from 150/50 and 60 s from 50 s
    * Waaagh! Banner cost increased to 170/0 from 165/0 and 40 s from 37 s
    * Orky Fort add-on cost increased to 340/340 from 300/300 and 95 s from 90 s
    * Extra Armor cost increased to 450/450 from 400/400 and 100 s from 96 s
    * Shoota Boyz Big Shoota damage reduced to 31-40 from 35-44
    * Shoota Boyz Big Shoota FotM penalty increased to 0.27 from 0.25
    * Upgraded Waagh Banner Big Shoota damage reduced to 40-49 from 43-52. Morale damage reduced to 11 from 12
    * Turbo Boost Research requirements reduced to 30 Ork pop from 31 Ork pop and also applies to Stormboy Nob Leader
    * Burna Bomb damage reduced to 1200-1800 from 1200-4000. Morale damage increased to 60 from 0. Health increased to 600 from 400. Size increased by 20%.

    Imperial Guard:
    * Telepathica Temple cost reduced from 75/25 to 50/25
    * Basilisk cost reduced from 150/300 to 150/250
    * Hellhound accuracy boosted to 80%, damage reduced to maintain DPS, FotM accuracy is 65% up from 35%
    * Tactica Control cost increased to 175/50 from 150/50
    * Battle Command cost increased to 300/175 and 90 s
    * Regimental Command cost increased to 340/340 and 100 s
    * Full Scale War cost increased to 450/450 and 100 s
    * Heavy Weapons Team cost decreased to 225/50 from 250/50 and 40 s from 45 s
    * HWT Lascannon base damage has gone up to 126-158.5 (from 110-137.5), about a 15% buff
    * Guardsmen Plasma range increased to 25 from 22 (now 30 after Satellite Targeting Resolution)
    * Sentinel Multilaser penetration vs vehicle_high increased to 25 from 15. Sight radius increased to 30 from 25.
    * Execute bonus to max damage reduced to 2.5x from 3x for both Lasgun and Hellgun (it's now a little under 2x damage)
    * The General now does damage on his special attacks
    * CS Priest morale bonus now stacks with other Priests/Commissars
    * Weapon Specialization Kasrkin GL/Plasma bonuses swapped (to match DC 1.2 changelog description), and Satellite Targeting Resolution now boosts GM Sergeant range too (which starts at 27)
    * Due to the decreased Chimera capacity, the first squad activates the left lasguns, and the second squad activates the right lasguns.
    * Starting support cap increased to 4 from 0
    * Heavy Bolter Turret build time increased to 48 s from 40 s
    * Guardsmen Squad and Kasrkin Grenade Launcher range decreased to 40 from 45, build time decreased to 14 s from 20 s
    * Guardsmen and Kasrkin unit footprint decreased to ease pathing problems, unit model size unchanged
    * Kasrkin reinforce cost increased to 50/10 from 40/10
    * Ogryns reinforce cost increased to 55/15 from 50/15

    Tau:
    * Path to Enlightenment cost increased to 225/225 from 200/200
    * Kauyon/Mont'Ka Command Post cost increased to 450/340 from 400/300 and 145 s from 144 s
    * Teachings of Kauyon/Mont'Ka cost increased to 450/450 and 100 s
    * EMP Grenade recharge time increased to 110 s from 90 s, duration reduced to 15 s from 20 s
    * Sonic Pulse double hit bug fixed. No longer does physical damage, only morale damage.
    * Vespid Neutron Blaster damage brought down to 15-17 from 22-25
    * Tau Commander Flamer changed from circle aoe to arc (-30 to 30 degrees). Missile Pod reload increased to 2 s from 1 s, damage doubled to maintain DPS
    * Snare Traps now have a valid armor type (building_low), their infiltration delay has been increased to 10 s from 8 s, duration has been reduced to 12 s from 15 s, and their health has been increased to 50 from 20. They are no longer affected by For the Greater Good.
    * Skryay Missile Pod damage increased to 350-450 from 330-425
    * Missile Barrage damage reduced to 120-235 from 150-250, initial delay on missiles increased to 2.2 s from 1.75 s
    * Harbinger Drones cost increased to 0/35 from 0/30, no longer affected by For the Greater Good
    * Tau Broadsides time cost reduced to 30 s from 45 s, morale enabled (600 max, 10 per s regen, 5 s min broken time, 50 to regroup), movement speed increased to 12 from 10
    * Broadside Rail Gun reload reduced to 3 s from 4 s, damage reduced to 1000-2000 from 1500-3000 (12% DPS reduction overall)
    * Kroot Hound, Krootox, and Greater Knarloc health regeneration increased to 1 from 0
    * Stealth Suit reinforce cost reduced to 65/0 from 85/0 and 11 s from 12 s, Fusion Blaster damage reduced to 67-81 from 75-90
    * Target Lock tweaked: 0.2 bonus instead of 2.0 but also reduces FotM penalty by 0.3, affects Stealth Suit Burst Cannon, Fusion Blaster, and Shas'Vre Fusion Blaster
    * Advanced Pulse Rifles now affects Shas'Vre and Shas'Ui in the same way as the squad members
    * Stealth Burst Cannon Enhancements cost decreased to 50/50 from 75/50 and 45 s from 60 s
    * For the Greater Good no longer boosts the health of Snare Traps or Harbinger Drones
    * Crisis Suit cost increased to 200/40 from 180/40
    * Crisis Suit Missile Pod damage increased to 625-725 from 600-675, reload time reduced to 4.5 s from 6 s (near-globally increases DPS by 41%). Piercing against building_low increased to 60 from 10, reduced against building_medium to 40 from 50, reduced against building_high to 10 from 40
    * Kroot Carnivores initial cost increased to 200/0 from 180/0
    * "Team" removed from Crisis Suit and Broadside unit names
    * Vespid Stingwing Strain now comes fully reinforced and costs 250/50 and takes 30 s
    * Kroot Shaper health increased to 850 from 800
    * Kroot Shaper Rifle damage increased to 58-70 from 50-60
    * Kroot Shaper Melee damage increased to 65-80 from 55-70
    * Drone Squad build cost reduced to 105/195 from 120/210

    Necrons:
    * Power Generators now add 25 power to their cost, not just 20
    * First power research effect reduced to 25% from 33%, cost increased to 400 power from 300 power. Second power research cost increased to 600 power from 550 power.
    * The time display has been altered to correctly show their time bonus. Instead of showing the completely wrong display using 20% increments, it show the portion of the total bonus (which is a 66.7% reduction) received by adding 15% to the display. It still reduces times by 10% behind the scenes as it always has. Critical Locations have been reduced from a 15% bonus to 10%.
    * Flayed Ones become more durable with monolith upgrades. Every addon built adds 150 to their health, which is now only 550. These stack, so three fully upgraded monoliths brings them to 1450 HP.
    * Flayed Ones damage against building_low increased by 60%, piercing of special attack 2 against building_low reduced to 40 from 70.
    * Flayed Ones Fear ability has been reduced to 1.5 morale damage from 3.
    * Flayed Ones teleport recharge decreased to 75 s from 120 s
    * The Necron Lord now gains 450 health with each monolith upgrade that has been built (potentially 4500 HP total if you're willing to blow that much power on it)
    * The Necron Lord's jump capacity has been reduced to 1 and 2/3 charges
    * Lightning Field charge limit bug fixed, charging from Necron Lord's melee attacks reduced to 45% from 60%
    * Nightmare Shroud recharge increased to 95 s from 80 s, duration reduced to 8 s from 10 s
    * Phylactery ranged damage reduction increased to 60% from 50%
    * Wraith damage reduced to 33-35 from 45-50
    * Necron Warriors gain 75 health and 30% damage from their first upgrade (down from 95 and 35%), 50% health and 35% damage from the second (down from 60% and 35%). That's ~100 less health with both upgrades and ~4% less damage after the first upgrade. Research durations increased to 80 and 55 respectively (up from 30 s on both).
    * Tomb Spyders have 3000 HP (up from 2700 HP) and melee damage has been reduced to 500-610 (down from 540-670). Their piercing against building_high has also been reduced.
    * Tomb Spyder summoning now uses 4 bodies for Necron Warriors, 5 for Flayed Ones, and 6 for Immortals
    * As part of their reworking, Attack Scarabs now have 85 HP, 20 power reinforce, a 3.5 s reinforce time, and air_med armor type.
    * Builder Scarab flag raising invulnerability fixed (12 s down to 3 s), capture rate increased to 0.55 from 0.5
    * Immortal Gauss Blaster damage reduced to 90-175 from 105.5-205.5, morale damage reduced to 9 from 10
    * Immortals health increased to 450 from 400
    * Immortals can now using Summoning, same properties as Necron Warriors/old Flayed Ones.
    * Awakened Monolith cost increased to 0/340 from 0/300 and 70 s from 60 s
    * Engaged Monolith cost increased to 0/400 from 0/350 and 70 s from 60 s
    * Energy Core cost increased to 0/550 from 0/500 and 50 s from 40 s
    * Lord Destroyer health increased to 1750 from 1250. Possession casting time decreased to 6 s from 8 s.
    * Wailing Terror physical damage decreased to 170-210 from 200-250 and morale damage reduced to 85 from 100. LP3 morale damage increased to 25 from 0.05. LP3 add-on now requires Awakened Monolith add-on.
    * Pariah reinforce time increased to 20 s from 10 s. Health increased to 1100 from 1000. Pariah special attacks damage increased to 20-25, full piercing, 5 morale damage.
    * Heavy Destroyer piercing increased against buildings low/med/high to 50/35/20 from 35.4/20.5/20
    * Dormant Monolith cost increased to 0/225 from 0/175, still doubles for each Monolith already on the field

  2. #2
    Woot for GK needing sacred artifact!!

  3. #3
    Skull_Explosion
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    You have only done 3 of the 7 current races, are the rest not listed in the demo or, havent you gotten around to them yet?

  4. #4
    Terminators and Assault Terminators have a charge bonus now (+50% speed, range 12)
    ?? ???

    Like, uhh, because you want terminators to close into melee? That doesn't quite make sense, unless they buffed regular termie melee too...

  5. #5
    Member dtitov's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention increase of energy globals costs for necrons by 150 (or 100 Tibermoon mentionedit in one of the posts....i hink it was 150). All in all farming power is quite harder now.
    Animator and a hobby modeller. Reel & contact: http://www.titovdenis.com

  6. Child's Play Donor Dawn of War Senior Member  #6
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    You have only done 3 of the 7 current races, are the rest not listed in the demo or, havent you gotten around to them yet?
    The Space Marines stuff I picked up after playing as them in the 2nd demo level a couple times, the IG units listed are because those three units have significant balance issues, and the Necrons are listed because let's face it, they're just one big balance issue. If you've got any specific units you're curious about, list them one at a time and wait for me or someone else to deal with it before posting another.

    Also, I should point out that if anyone else has found balance changes in the demo, post them and I'll add them to the list (and I've updated the first post with this request).

    That doesn't quite make sense, unless they buffed regular termie melee too
    Nope, regular Terminators have the same melee strength. This'll never really come into play for Terminators since you have to put the squad on Assault stance to use the charge bonus, and unless you don't know how terrible they are in melee, you won't do that with Terminator Squads.

    Forgot to mention increase of energy globals costs for necrons by 150
    And the first one is also less effective. Added.

  7. #7
    Umm, haven't termies always had the charge bonus?

  8. #8
    Member dtitov's Avatar
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    Any changes to destroyer lords ? (God, if they are still garbage i will be mad.)

    Chaos - PSM, Zerks, or CSM' HBs ?
    Tau - Sky ray missile barrage or Sky ray changes ?
    Last edited by dtitov; 13th Feb 08 at 12:12 AM.

  9. Dawn of War Senior Member  #9
    Any change to Free Sluggas that you can find?
    What about Lightning Field, Drone Harbingers and Smite?

    White_Pointer

  10. #10
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    Any changes to banshees, dark reapers and warp spiders?
    yeah yeah

  11. #11
    * Tactical Bolters only get 4 heavy weapons with Heavy Weapon Increase, not 5
    Are you saying that ALL heavy weapons on the SM Tac squads are decreased to 4 or only the Heavy Bolters?

    For the rest my first impression on SM (which i always play) is that because of the health and damagebonus being cut in 2 parts (which means a longer researchtime in total and higher cost) and GK requiring a Sacred Artifact now, it seems that SM gets a pretty big nerf. Especially early T2 will be hit hard. Ofcourse this must be tested vs the other races first since they might aswell be nerfed in T2. If the latter is the case then i cheer of joy cause i love early tier-fights (they simply last longer and require more micro which is fun) ... If not then i hope that, somehow, T1 of SM will be boosted since i always thought the strong T2 of SM in DC was a compensation for the weak T1 they had...

    Nope, regular Terminators have the same melee strength. This'll never really come into play for Terminators since you have to put the squad on Assault stance to use the charge bonus, and unless you don't know how terrible they are in melee, you won't do that with Terminator Squads.
    The weird thing is that, if i recall correctly, the tooltip of the termies say that they are effective against all unittypes in melee. The DPS chart (on the wiki) show something totally different (i guess Relic just copy-pasted the tooltip of the assault ones and forgot to delete this sentence).

  12. #12
    Or else they realised that termies with necron warrior-esque ambiguous stats weren't possible to tie up, and thus overpowered. The irony is, you can deal with unmeleeable ranged units far better in tier 3 than tier 1. Hurr.

  13. Child's Play Donor Dawn of War Senior Member  #13
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    Umm, haven't termies always had the charge bonus?
    Yep, never noticed it actually take effect before. Thus the reason I want an official changelog come release. Removed.
    Any changes to chaos PSM
    As far as the unit goes, cost increased from 260/120 from 220/100, reinforce cost increased to 65/30 from 55/25, and they now use two slots in a transport. Weapons and researches are a separate lookup, as are the other items listed, so I'll probably be getting to them later (one request at a time and all that).
    Any change to Free Sluggas that you can find?
    It's a T4 research now, no changes to the effects of the research, no limit on Boyz Huts. Lightning Field I looked up earlier insofar as the bug is concerned, that's fixed. The other will happen later (again, one at a time, or I end up with 20 things to check all at once, not happening).
    Are you saying that ALL heavy weapons on the SM Tac squads are decreased to 4 or only the Heavy Bolters?
    Tactical Bolters are the standard Space Marine squads. Heavy Bolters are the heavy weapon. So "Tactical Bolters only get 4 heavy weapons with Heavy Weapon Increase" means the Tactical Bolter squad only goes up to 4 heavy weapons with the research.
    Any changes to banshees, dark reapers and warp spiders?
    Banshees the unit/squad, no. Weaponry and researches are a separate request, as are the other units listed.

    And in case saying it in two other posts and three times in this one doesn't suffice, ONE unit at a time, pick ONE of unit & squad stats, abilities, researches, or weaponry. If you don't narrow it down, I will, and then I might end up forgetting the rest. Looking this stuff up takes time, and I only have so much of it.

    Also, T2, T3, and T4 upgrades/buildings have all increased in cost. Orks are up now, I'll add the others eventually.
    Last edited by Maktaka; 13th Feb 08 at 1:01 AM.

  14. #14
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    Any changes to Lightning Field?

  15. #15
    BarxBaron
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    Oh bah; they are slowing tech across the board......

    Is that a good or bad thing? Good I suppose in the case of Chaos .....dunno about the pace of the game for other races though.

    If games last longer in T1/T2 won't we see the T1/T2 matchup problems in some race vs race combos become even more emphasized??? I'm going to assume they tweaked alot of things in light of this issue.........we'll see.

  16. #16
    Member RexOmniaLupus's Avatar
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    There are some additional changes I know of:

    General:
    - Costs of teching have gone up:
    -- T2 has gone up, but still varies by race. Chaos at 325/125, Eldar at 225/225, IG at 300/175, Necrons at 0/340, SM at 300/125, Tau at 225/225.
    -- T3 is standardized to 340/340, with exceptions being Necrons at 0/400.
    -- T4 is standardized to 450/450, with exceptions being Eldar at 350/350, Necrons at 0/550.

    Chaos:
    - Chaos Armory has cost decreased to 175/50 from 200/75

    IG:
    - IG Tactica Control is now 175/50 (from 150/50)
    - IG HWT Lascannon base damage has gone up to 126-158.5 (from 110-137.5), about a 15% buff
    - IG Sentinel has better penetration versus vehicle_high, now 25 (from 15)

    Necron:
    - Lightning Field seems to be the same, though the overcharge bug is fixed.

    Ork:
    - Waaagh Banner now 170/0 each (from 165/0)
    - Pile O Gunz now 170/70 (from 150/50)

  17. Child's Play Donor Dawn of War Senior Member  #17
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    Thanks Rex, added, except for the Lightning Field thing. The charge from melee attacks has been reduced from 60% to 45%.

    CellLeg: Warp Spider unit/squad stats are the same, other stuff on 'em and Fire Dragon Squad will come later
    Last edited by Maktaka; 13th Feb 08 at 2:44 AM.

  18. #18
    Just to state it:

    THANK YOU VERY MUCH Maktaka for the work you put in all such threads, really really great...

    Even if the changed might not be the 'final' changes, it is great to get a 'first view'...

    It might be interesting (for me ;-)) to know some of the changes to the Eldar...

    For example Warp Spiders and my loved Fire Dragons... I know many people say they are currently IMBA, but they are anyway just great...
    So if you know or find (as I do not exactly know how) any changes, it would be great..

    See ya,

    Cell

  19. #19
    Forum Fact Fairie Slow_Runner's Avatar
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    Maktaka, that was a post I didn't want to see either.

    No ranting, folks. Carry on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maktaka

  20. #20
    Member RexOmniaLupus's Avatar
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    Must say I didn't look at the Lightning Field too closely. IIRC, the thing I thought should most be changed, the 90% melee damage reflection, was still the same. Didn't compare much beyond that.

    I also forgot to mention that the HWT cost has gone down to 225/50 (from 250/50), and builds in 40s instead of 45s. Also Guardsmen Plasma base range has gone up to 25 (from 22), and will go up to 30 after Satellite targeting.

  21. #21
    * Monastery cost increased to 300/125 and 90 s
    * Fortress Monastery cost increased to 340/340 and 100 s
    * Heavy Armor Deployment cost increased to 450/450 and 100 s
    Hmm... as posted by Rex, all the teching went up in price. I would like to know what all of you ppl think of this.

    At this moment i nearly ever research the Heavy Armor Deployment for 2 reasons:
    (1) It eats HARD in your economy (and therefor is only viable when you have an overshoot of req + pwr) and
    (2) Almost every game i play is decided at early T3 (i very often dont even get my Termies out in time to make a real difference to the game).

    Making the teching slower and more expensive has 2 sides:
    (1) Longer T1 and early T2 fights (which is alot of fun imo) and an increased risk in tech-rushing (as it should be) instead of it being a no-brainer.
    (2) More battles never reaching T4 and therefor not seeing the cool and fun units that place their stamp on an army (like the already rarely seen Baneblade for IG, the Avatar for Eldar, the Landraider for SM). Even the T3 units could be affected by this.

    What do you all think, will my prognosis be correct or not?

  22. #22
    nerf-ig
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    I thank you all

    About those sentinels, are there any info about their setup time or accurate?
    Any changes to Guardsmen? (Cost reduces, buildtime etc). How do you check those data (i could check it on my own and post it here)

  23. Child's Play Donor Dawn of War Senior Member  #23
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    About those sentinels, are there any info about their setup time or accurate? Any changes to Guardsmen? (Cost reduces, buildtime etc). How do you check those data (i could check it on my own and post it here)
    Sentinel sight radius increased to 30 from 25, that's it. Guardsmen squad/unit stats are the same; weapons, researches, squad leader, and all those mini-commanders will be later.

    I'm using Corsix's Mod Studio to view the files, along with his extra RGD hashes for Soulstorm.

    Edit: Lord Destroyer health increased to 1750 from 1250. Possession casting time decreased to 6 s from 8 s.
    Last edited by Maktaka; 13th Feb 08 at 4:18 AM.

  24. #24
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    Thanks for checking the banshees. Can you also see the optics reasearch in the soul shrine for eldar, please?

  25. #25
    Fr3quency
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    no changes to tau t1? Vespids,Tau Commander?
    Besides good Job with that list.

  26. Company of Heroes Senior Member  #26
    Minister of Propaganda Imperial Dane's Avatar
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    Well there can easily have been more changes between the release of the demo and now, soo..

  27. #27
    Scout flamer now costs 30/10 (from 40/10).
    GK's do less damage to commanders in melee (30 DPS, down from 45)
    Apothecary's 2x healing aura has been nerfed to 1.5x

    Good job on the list, Maktaka.

  28. #28
    Member RexOmniaLupus's Avatar
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    Vespids: Only change I see is Neutron Blaster (ranged) damage brought down to 15-17 from 22-25. Otherwise, no changes to cost/buildtime, not to weapon damage or penetration, jump stats.

    Tau Commander: Flamer AOE changed to cone ranging -30 to 30, formerly a circle. Missile pack reload to 2s from 1s, damage doubled to compensate. No other changes I can find.

  29. #29
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    Wow i'm a bit scared, gaurd tier research time and cost went up >.> oh boy, my guardsmen will be goign where the bloody tanks all over again.

    Also have you heard anything about the guard vehical cap, like if sential went down to one 1 pop instead of being two, or the leman russ high pop cap have they went down to 3 and has the baneblade went up to5?

    because right now you can only build 2 sentis 2 lemans and one baneblade all at once. When lets say eldar can build six wraith walkers, 2 prism tanks and khaine. which seem odd.

  30. #30
    ApocalypseXL
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    I duno where did you puled all this numbers off by i think they soud a lil stupid from a balance pint of view . As a SM player i woud feel 75% dead if i saw those numbers come to life .

  31. Dawn of War II Senior Member Dawn of War Senior Member  #31
    Senior Member Hirmetrium's Avatar
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    Excellent job, Its slightly disappointing to see chaos still stuck in the "none of our units scale, your screwed when you tech" rut, but I do agree with the rest of the changes.

    Otherwise, Looks like Iron Lore have delivered on their Necron Nerf promises, which is excellent. They have slowed tech down even further, another excellent choice. This may be the best DoW game since WA 1.51(?).
    You should check out Priority Vox Channel Secundus, a blog!

  32. #32
    In other expansions we've seen general changes that made balance only achievable after lots of time and patches. Reading the changes Maktaka is pointing makes me think that this has changed a bit, looks like more balance patch changes.
    IMO it's a good thing because it doesn't drop previous work.

    Any changes in chaos regeneration? It's been always 0.5 while all the other races have 1.
    And it's the tier3 spell of the chaos sorcerer any better?

    Chaos drives you better through times with no Tyranids than Tyranids through times with no Chaos.
    Fhtagn!

  33. #33
    Thanks Maktaka, for bringing this up.

    Now to the requests... Any info on SM tier 1? And about termies, do they get a lesser FoTM penalty?

    From the looks of it, SM tier2 suffered a huge nerf. I wonder if they got anything else to compensate, otherwise I seriously worry about their balance.
    Last edited by desocupado; 13th Feb 08 at 8:13 AM. Reason: wrong spelling.
    Only The Emperor is all.

  34. #34
    * Scout Marines build cost increased from 90/0 to 100/0, reinforce cost remains the same
    * Force Commander cost reduced from 260/50 to 220/50
    * Tactical Missile Launcher reload increased from 5 to 5.75 s
    * Tactical Missile Launcher cost reduced from 60/15 to 50/10
    * Health and Damage upgrades have been split into two researches each (50/30 first, 100/50 second), mostly same bonuses between the two (ASMs get just +5% from first health research) but same total bonuses to all units
    * Tactical Bolters only get 4 heavy weapons with Heavy Weapon Increase, not 5
    * Grey Knights need a Sacred Artifact now
    * Weaken Resolve is the same
    * Monastery cost increased to 300/125 and 90 s
    * Fortress Monastery cost increased to 340/340 and 100 s
    * Heavy Armor Deployment cost increased to 450/450 and 100 s

    serious nerf for sm in t2? lets see, the only significant t2 change is grey knight require sacred artifact. split inf upgrades is actualy better, its sam eoverall but you get half the bonus half sooner. 4 bolters instead of 5 thats not realy a huge nerf. rocket launcher 0.75 more reload time bu tprice decreased by 10 req. more a change than a nerf. what about t1? force commander costs 40 req less, scout 10 more, but have their flamer cost reduce by 10 req. t1 was actualy slightly buffed according to this. what leaves? weaken resolve is still useless, yay and thats all changes.

    now admitly, given how sm is weak in t1 and teching is longer and costs more now, the force commander price drop doesn thelp alot. sm always relied on quick tech to t2 and then do grey knight and chap asap. but greys are now t2.5. so ye your right, overall, sm is nerfed alittle. i think theyd need a marine buff to survive easyer in t1 and ofcourse in t2 aswell until upgrades. slight hp and dmg buff is quite needed. maybe best would be to increase first upgrade bonus, which can be atatined at t1 now with small cost.

  35. #35
    Member SpArTy's Avatar
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    Good work man. Sad not to see SMs T1 resolved, but there may be more changes.
    lol n00b

  36. #36
    Excellent job, Its slightly disappointing to see chaos still stuck in the "none of our units scale, your screwed when you tech" rut, but I do agree with the rest of the changes.
    Chaos tacs scale far better than SM ones, what with 50 DPS bolters in their 1, only slightly less HP after PtW, faster run speed with charge, and recking rediculous cloaking and plasma in t3. What are you talking about?

    Tac Marine Rocket Launcher vs. Medium Armor = 56.4 DPS
    Horrors vs. Medium Armor = 26.4 DPS
    You effectively need two 5 man horror squads to get the damage done by a single 4 man Rocket Launchers squad.
    2x 5 horrors costs less than 5 missle marines

    But what about the ig crazy pop cap problem, why does one leman take up 5 pop cap, and a bane blade takes 3. Leman pop cap wayy to high.
    Because every other races T4 tanks cost 5 pop...
    Perosnally though, I'd like to see them all cost 4 cap like chaos tanks.


    All in all I'm feeling quite satisfied with these changes, for the most part. Obviously not everything Id want has been done, but a lot of it looks great. Great thread Maktaka!

  37. #37
    Forum Fact Fairie Slow_Runner's Avatar
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    "Why this, why that, RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE".

    This is from a demo, which might or might not be what's in the actual product. Don't start a big balance debate here. I'm pruning the thread with that in mind.

    Oh, and about the Vespids, I'd take a look at their abilities.

  38. #38
    Banned {OGS}Sirius's Avatar
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    Any new pysker abilites, and necron lord artifacts?

  39. #39
    I have one question please:
    Any changes for the Dark Reaper in regards of Range/DPS/Costs? If you are on it anyways - thanks!

    'Now if you'll excuse me, I have some Death to defy.'
    [P. Griffin]

  40. #40
    Zyxthior
    Guest
    Probably because the Baneblade (since DC) is hard capped at just ONE. Same thing with the Land Raider (Uses 3 Cap).

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalChaos
    2x 5 horrors costs less than 5 missle marines
    How do you figure?
    Tac Marine 190Req + ( 5 * 60Req & 5 * 15 Energy for Missile Upgrade) = 490Req & 75 Energy
    TWO Horrors @ 250 Req & 50 Energy = 500 Req & 100 Energy

    I'm not counting the Heavy Weapons upgrade as a cost as you'd get that anyway, regardless of Missile Launchers.

  41. #41
    5 marines = 240 req + 5 missles = 300/75, so the tacs cost 540/75.

    With the SS changes the tacs would only cost 490, but they would also do less DPS.

    And if you really want to go in depth, horrors can deep strike, cant be disrupted, fire on the move, and have 600 HP.

    I'd say if anything horrors are better than missle tacs.

    Like I said, I see no reasons to whine about SS other than "flyers are dumb" and "I wanted nids". The balance decisons they have made so far are looking to be great. I dont expect SS to be well balanced but lets be optomistic about it while we can

  42. #42
    Sirius has a valid point. Why is it that Leman Russ tanks have nearly double the pop cap requirement than a Bladebane, considering the Bladebane would be obscene from a supply point of view.

    Do I want to sink half my vehicle cap into two tanks when I could buy several other alternatives?
    The Leman Russ is stronger then most of the other tanks. I wouldnt mind a bit lower pop costs on the Leman Russ if all the other races their simular tanks their pop cap will be lowered aswell. Not too much though since 1 tank extra makes ALOT of difference against non-AV infantry. Putting more tanks on the field means that all players must also put some extra AV on the field (to prevent your non-AV from dying too fast) which results in a bigger gap between infantry-/anti infantry-tactics and vehicle-/anti vehicle-tactics... Think about it.

    I do think that Chaos tanks must cost the same as any other tank (Predator, Leman Russ, Looted Tank etc.) especially since the Chaos Predator is already slightly better. I fail to see why Chaos has to have a small advantage over their (almost equally powerfull) counterparts (SM). They have faster builders (resulting in a fast T2), stronger Tac Squads due to HB @ T1 (even the amount of HW will be the same now in SS) while having a bigger squad already and infiltration @ T4, they can build raptors without an armoury, they have the strongest commander and they have lower pop costs for tanks... Some things ofcourse balance out but some things just seem a little bit too much sometimes...

  43. #43
    Banned {OGS}Sirius's Avatar
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    Well i have a couple more request, do any of the old races get new abilities researches at all? like dc gave us let it burn, and berzerker thingy etc. As well, as hwt sliding bug, and drop hax fix?

  44. Child's Play Donor Dawn of War Senior Member  #44
    Calculating Maktaka's Avatar
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    Cold_Crusader, RexOmniaLupus, thanks, added.
    I duno where did you puled all this numbers off by i think they soud a lil stupid from a balance pint of view . As a SM player i woud feel 75% dead if i saw those numbers come to life .
    http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...79#post2821979

    Any changes in chaos regeneration? It's been always 0.5 while all the other races have 1.
    And it's the tier3 spell of the chaos sorcerer any better?
    No and no.

    And about termies, do they get a lesser FoTM penalty?
    Huh, actually they've got a worse FotM penalty, they never got it boosted in DC 1.20. They're still at 10% FotM accuracy.

    Well i have a couple more request, do any of the old races get new abilities researches at all?
    No clue, and looking for potential changes without a focus is really obnoxious, so unless someone else looks for them you'll have to wait for the official changelog. For what it's worth, I haven't seen anything.

    Slow_Runner, sorry for all the pruning you're having to do on this thread. Guys, don't discuss Soulstorm balance here. Don't even respond to people who do so, a mod will nuke their post anyways so you'll just get yours nuked too.

  45. #45
    chaos have their lp healing improved. it was worthless in dc now i gues its not

  46. #46
    Night Master
    Guest
    I was just reading about the what the Deceiver is shaping up to be for the Necrons, and I had a question. Are they modifying the Stats on the Nightbringer to compensate for the (apparent) awsome power of the Deceiver? I ask because I have always sort of considered the Nightbringer to be little better than a light battering ram for buildings rather than an army stomping summon like Kaine. Any word?

  47. #47
    Member RexOmniaLupus's Avatar
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    Upon further investigation, it looks like the Vespid Sonic Pulse no longer does damage, only knockback and morale damage. No change to Destablization.

  48. #48
    not bad. SM got nerfed to hell though
    Apple wants to give everyone "the business."

  49. Child's Play Donor Dawn of War Senior Member  #49
    Calculating Maktaka's Avatar
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    chaos have their lp healing improved. it was worthless in dc now i gues its not
    Chaos Taint is the same as its always been.
    Are they modifying the Stats on the Nightbringer
    Nope.

  50. #50
    Two more SM ones that I didn't see on the list:

    -Skull probe now has 225 health (up from 200)
    -Scout Infiltration now requires T2 add-on (in addition to armory)

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