Soulstorm: Balance-shattering bug

[Old Painless]

Yay for BUGGO !!!! We're saved.

[Golden Dragoon]

Glad to hear!!

[neucromaner]

solution to this sob exploits is already there
it is call QS.

let's all support FFA QS game. 3v3 QS game. etc

[Fannin]

They're looking into it, sure; they'd be stupid not to. The question is whether or not the problem can be resolved quickly enough to salvage the game, not whether or not the problem has been noticed.

[SubakuGaara]

Umm...

first thing is this. Whats the gain per bug attempt? Because if its just a little, maybe its not nearly as bad as we all make it out to be. I mean if the gain is just +10 requisition, then they'd have to build and cancel 14X just to be able to put out one SOB squad...

[Barabus]

it's a small amount, but it's only really limited by how fast you can click, set some stuff to build and clicka-clicka-clicka-clicka-clicka-clicka, move the stuff you built and clicka-clicka-clicka-clicka-clicka-clicka, not to mention that you really don't have to waste time building multiple generators cause you can just have one and do this and generate all the power you need. So while the other guy is building up his base, your teching up and fully upgrading you units. I have tested this a few times with some friends and pretty much there isn't anyway possible to beat it on a 1 vs 1 the SOB player becomes way to powerful way to quickly, and once you have smacked the other player around a bit and capture most of the map, you don't need the exploit as you will be making enough to not really have to bother. But early game it's unstoppable by any other faction.

[Jaimas]

The amount you get is directly proportionate to how many LPs with Holy Icons you have before you start doing it. The more LPs with them, the higher the rate of return. Generally, the amount you get is small - but doing it rapid fire with hotkeys gives you more than enough to reinforce a squad to full strength, research an upgrade or two, or simply crank up your resource ratings. If you're quick, it gives you resources whenever you want. It's been abused since it was discovered 2 days ago, and HiveMind's discovery of it has apparently killed some of the buzz due to the game being made public.

Doing it with multiple Icons should work even faster in theory given good use of hotkeys, but there aren't a lot of maps with 2 LPs within screengrab distance of each other.

Buggo, I'm glad you're looking into it - I am, since I want to see SS do well here - but time is a critical factor with this issue. The longer the bug remains, the more the naysaying crowd is going to use it to torpedo the game, and the Reviews haven't even hit the table yet. This is the kind of thing that, if ignored, is going to be hard for SS to get around.

[HiveMind]

I just checked - I had no generator, started to abuse this bug at 1:30, and by 2:00 had 2325 power. Without having any other Icons already up, I gained 2525 power in 30 seconds. While I didn't check requisition, as the increase I was getting from other sources meant I couldn't get an accurate figure, I was gaining 40 requisition every time I went through as opposed to 25 power. That means I should have gained a total of 4040/2525 from 30 seconds of H, click, H, click, H, click.

[Jaimas]

I did it a little bit later in a test, trying it on smaller maps with closer-together LPs. I managed to get over 10000 req in the span of 2 minutes, and that's with me flooding Battle Squads and Missionaries to back them up.

[dreddnott]

Oh, man, I can't *wait* to get Soulstorm and play it at LAN parties with my friends. Seriously.

Sister of Battle mirrors will be HILARIOUS.

[Korgoth]

This bug needs patching.. it IS a balance shattering bug and should not hotfixed immediately. I haven't played automatch because I am afraid it will be full of people abusing this. If you've read the thread many people claim to have already "tested" it in multiplayer so you know they are abusing it. It's been 2 days since I played, and I'm curious if I will have to wait months for a patch to come out or if this will be fixed pretty quickly? I'm keeping an eye on this thread any if we could get an ETA that would be awesome.

[SubakuGaara]

yeah its quite a large amount you can retrieve from just one lp and a few seconds worth of abuse. Relic really needs to get cracking on this as well as the other immediate bugs people have found.

[Feragore]

Yeah, this changes a ton. I found SoB to be a race that I would actually like to play, but like Necrons, people wouldn't like it if I did, even if its for a completely different reason, and Necrons are now fine balance wise.

Not only that, but it also ruins any hope of getting a good fair automatch, as even if you don't like SoB, infinite resources lets even a monkey win. It definately works, I tried it when I was fast teching to write a set of grid hotkeys for them (pretty useless now too, as I can't play SoB online anyway. I'll upload them when they're done and checked)

I'm going to disagree with 'Keep it quiet'. If more people know about it, people ranting, fourms going into chaos over it, sales are impacted, it would make Relic work on it a bit harder. Or at least that's the theory.

Guess I'll try DE some more.

[Kaiden]

Yes this Bug must be fixed ASAP. balance and minor bugs need to take a back seat to this. even a hot fix just for the SoB eco glitch and DE ob glitch would be acceptable. If this isnt done in 2 weeks i think many players will just quit all together. also, Neuromer, stop trying to corrupt the new players by encouraging playing a perversion of the game.

[HolezInYa]

Just trying to bump this thread since the post I made was locked, and directed here. I was just hoping we could stay informed on when the SOB resource bug might be getting patched. I am not saying give us a date now, but when you have made some head way in fixing the problem please keep us informed.

Lol all you people crying about this bug being posted publicly, and saying that this topic should be nuked must not realize that there are thousands of game forums out there. I actually discovered the exact details of this bug on a Game Stop forum. Maybe you should call team America's internet police and ask them to ban everything on the interweb.

[Inst]

Wait, isn't there a Necron version of this bug? And wasn't that bug present in Dark Crusade?

[LiveForever]

I can't imagine that this is a very difficult bug to fix, unless the original coding was done very poorly.

The trouble results from the fact that the upgrade cost of a Holy Icon changes as soon as a player clicks to start the research on one.

This is intentional, since the game allows multiple simultaneous Holy Icons to be researched at the same time. The current functionality ensures that each consecutive Holy Icon costs the proper amount.

I can think of a few possible ways to get around this bug while still preserving the original intention. Since I've never cracked open DoW to look under the hood, I can't say which would be the easiest to implement.

Solution #1: Have some variable that is unique to each LP that preserves the original cost of the research upgrade, and which is checked when the players cancels the upgrade.

Solution #2: Use a more global hack that modifies the the refund cost like so:
Assume: some variable that keeps track of the number of Holy Icons owned or currently researching. We'll call this numIcons.

Current algorithm (Again, assuming, but it can't be that different):
Refund Req = numIcons * 40 + 25;
Refund Pow = numIcons * 25;

New algorithm (Fixes bug!):
Refund Req = (numIcons-1) * 40 + 25;
Refund Pow = (numIcons-1) * 25;

Now that may look wrong to you at first, but just think about it for a minute.

Now solution #1 and solution #2 are functionally identical except in one situation:
If you research simultaneous Holy Icons, solution #2 can get a bit wonky. It still works, but it might stretch your brain a little bit to work it out in your head (it stretched mine at least).
Imagine the following:

1. You have 1 icon.
2. Start research on icon #2 (Cost: 65 req, 25 pow) net: -65/-25
3. Start research on icon #3 (Cost: 105 req, 50 pow) net: -170/-75
4. Cancel research on icon #2 (Refund: 105 req, 50 pow) net: -65/-25
5. Cancel research on icon #3 (Refund: 65 req, 25 pow) net: 0/0

Now the net works out just fine, the only odd part is that you are still getting a bigger refund in Step 4 than you paid for the same Holy Icon in Step 2. Now you may think that this is still cheating and giving you more than it should, but it's not. If you were to cancel for a refund of 105/50, then immediately restart the research it would cost you 105/50. If you were to cancel and keep the cash your net still works out to -65/-25, the cost of a second icon, and lo and behold you have a second icon researching / done.

So yeah, I like to mess with numbers. And I'd like to see this bug fixed. And I wanted to contribute to the thread in a slightly more meaningful way than "bug sux, omgzor fix it n0w!"

Not that the nice folk at Relic haven't already fixed the code and are uploading patches as we speak...*cough* *cough*

~Jack

P.S.

Editing to add a slightly different coding scenario, but still the same solution (Solution #2).

Assume: some variable that represents the current cost of a Holy Icon upgrade (or two variables, or a data struct, or whatever). Let's call it iconCost.

Current Algorithm (assumed):
Refund Req = iconCost.req; (or iconReqCost)
Refund Pow = iconCost.pow; (or iconPowCost, if you wanted two separate variables)

New Algorithm (fixes bug!):
Refund Req = iconCost.req - 40;
Refund Pow = iconCost.pow - 25;

[splack]

Sooo whats our status on this?

[Jaimas]

Not to sound indignant, but good splack has a point.
When can we expect this (and other critical exploits) repaired?

[SubakuGaara]

would be nice to hear something from buggo or the other relic reps.

[Relic]

I already posted that we know about this and are looking into it. Thanks!

[dreddnott]

You know how it is when you find out your favourite game is broken...time tends to move in slow motion, and you run around in circles like a chicken with its head cut off, and you become convinced that TEOTWAWKI is rapidly approaching.

I hope you'll forgive us if we seem a bit antsy.

[Adonis]

Still, lets avoid giving Buggo a hard time. She's already responded twice now and will provide feedback once she has it.

[Freelance]

Luckily enough, this bug has been found pretty fast and thus definitely puts in danger SS sales, so maybe we get our fast-patch after all.

Hopefully, but I don't think most people who buy SS come here first to look for bugs! Loads of people will be online getting pwn3d by unstoppable SoBs and wondering why they are so imba (and normally when people complain about imba I think they are exaggerating but in this case I will have to agree!)

[Slyfe]

I truely wish the OP had PM'd this to a mod or buggo herself, posting it in open forums has made SoB nearly unplayable in game. I get kicked from nearly every game i join and i havent ever used this glitch, or i host and wait for 40 minutes for a 1v1 to fill because people see i play SoB and leave.

Hind-sights 20/20 though i suppose. Lets think before we post these types of things in the future.

[tombom]

Keeping it a secret would be silly. A lot of people knew about it already and if it wasn't made public they could just abuse it. People would probably find it out independently and eventually somebody would post it.

[Tomek.winxs]

they are looking into it lawl! they should know that it needs to be fixed asap not " we look into it"
wow!

[Fred_Scuttle]

I'm making this statement for myself - and any others who choose to agree with me, but again I can only directly speak for myself.

I have $50.00 that Relic is not getting until this is fixed. 75% of the pleasure I get out of DOW is online play. I'll not be playing because I'm not paying.

When this is fixed I'll be in. If it takes until the game makes the first drop to $29.99 or $24.99 then so be it.

Again, I'll get SS eventually. When - and at what price - is up to Relic.

Fred

[][x04][Doom][]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here,

I got SS yesterday and have been learning how to play SoB, i only learnt about this glitch thingy today, assuming this bug doesnt get fixed soon will we be looking at a situation where people will be creating online games and saying 'no sisters' because of the people abusing this bug?

Thanks

[Accordion_This]

good find there HiveMind

[[O|N]Death]

bottom line:

I payed $39.99 for a game that promised 2 new playable races, and an improvement in game balance and support.

This is False advertisement.

I can not play one of the 2 new "playable" races as people will not join games hosted by SoB players, and Boot SoB players when they try to join a game.

There is no Game Balance with a glitch of this nature

Improved support would have fixed this bug within hours of its discovery, plenty of other companies have that capability, why not Relic?

In my Humble Opinion, this is grounds for all purchasers of this game to file a class action lawsuit against Relic for a full refund of their purchase price.

Unfortunately the game has been out for approximately 2 weeks, and the bug discovered within 48 hours. Due to the lack of timely action I'm forced to believe that Relic will only understand such strong terms as Lawsuit, as they obviously don't otherwise listen to their customers.

[Jaimas]

I choose to note, with some dismay, that as of currently, close to three months hence, we still don't have a patch. I also choose to note that I brought up why timely patch support was a necessity on this issue. I don't know the cause for these delays, but people are going to be using this to continue to torpedo SS.