Patch Info From Relic

[GuerillaChiken]

There are almost always Chikens online on HW2, and even our patience is wearing thin.

But Retread...what does it matter if we don't play the game? Relic/VU/Sierra already have our cash.

Chikens are behind you as well here Retread, we are trying to get people on board with complaining to these fat cats.

But Uber, the thread locker, assures us that they (whomever 'they' are) are moving with this and it takes time. My concern is the apparent rush to get this game out, the huge problems with multi player stability, and the passing of the buck whenever complaints are lodged.

But... I will perservere, launch 10 games....play 3 to completion, not bad, just like baseball.

BAWK!!!!!

Guerilla

[ÜberJumper]

Guerilla:

This is the one thread that bitching about the patch or lack thereof is allowed. I only locked the other one because people keep popping that thread up with comments that aren't related to the actual problem that that thread presented, which takes time away from keeping this forum organized.

This one's docked right on top and I encourage you guys to use it to vent about the state of the game. There are a couple of other posts in HW2 GD about this. Basically, don't bitch about the game in threads that are specifically for one bug. I only delete threads or posts in here if they do not stay on the topic of finding a solution for a problem. Just trying to keep the signal to noise ratio down.

I agree with you that the game needed more testing and shouldn't have shipped without a beta. However, that point is long gone for me, and the only thing *I* (and we) can do is help gather data to make sure that we have enough info for Relic to get a patch out.

All the extra bitching about "woulda/shoulda/coulda" is only useful for Relic's next games, not for what we can do to help get HW2 sorted out now.

I think we can all agree the game needed more resources (QA, Beta, focus testing etc) before it shipped. No argument is needed there, so please, let's not flog a dead horse, and find as many problems with the game now as possible to make sure they get into a patch.

[GuerillaChiken]

I got no beef with you Uber, but I do find that founded concerns about a product that was sub par and cost $50 is your definition of "bitching" disheartening. We have the right to voice our opinion about a game, and most of us have done it in a manner that suits the situation. Calling it "bitching" is simply unacceptable and insulting to people that paid money for this game.

I agree that complaining about it probably won't do any good, but it sure as hell isn't going to hurt now is it?

What will do some good is all of the people who do have concerns to voice them! LOUD AND CLEAR! You calling it "bitching" simply illustrates your LACK of concern on the subject.

This is our community not yours, and we will bitch until UberLocker locks the thread.

BAWK!

Guerilla

Bitching my ass. You haven's seen bitching.

[ÜberJumper]

Guerilla:

There's critisism, complaining, whining and bitching. Bitching is just passionate complaining that may or may not include valid issues. For example, I'd say "yeah, Guerilla was bitching about me using the word bitching when....".

I bitch about HW2 issues quite a bit, I just don't do it in threads that are to gather info about problems. More on IRC or directly to Relic devs. Besides, I paid for two copies of the game plus a strat guide so I get to do twice the bitching right?

I never said you didn't have the right to complain/bitch/critisize. The only control I have is where and when bitching occurs in this one small corner of OUR community (and yes it's as much my community as it is your community). In short, don't complain/bitch/critisize in a thread about a specific bug about issues not related to that bug.

It's not a lack of concern, it's just fighting the battles I can fight with a hope of winning. I just know that there's no point in complaining/bitching/critisising the lack of a patch right now (and you'll know why sooner rather than later).

So yeah, go ahead and bitch to your heart's content, just don't bitch in bug threads in this forum (the HW2 Bug Forum, not Relic forums proper). Keep the signal to noise ratio down, because bitching/complaining CAN hurt if the Relic devs are not too excited about coming and looking at threads where all they see is bitching/complaining mixed in with constructive and helpful critisisms and comments.

[AngelTLSC]

Guerilla is right and Uber is right.

In defence of Guerilla - we have paid our money and we do expect to have a quality product. He is right to complain at the lack of support to date. We hear from you, Uber,that Relic are working on the problem. Since these are their forums, why dont they update us? Its not too much too ask for a once weekly, or fortnightly, update about what problems and bugs a first (perhaps final patch) will address.
I am sorry that it hurts the Relic devs sensitivities if they have to come along and see bitching. I appreciate that they work to tight deadlines and, in this particular case, we are told they were rushed in finalising the product. Is that the consumers fault? I think not.

Would Relic support us all getting a refund for a shoddy product? Again, I think not.

Having said that - I appreciate that no one works as hard on the bugs on this forum than Uber does. Most times his work goes un-noticed and is thankless a lot of the time. The HW community should be applauding the hard work and dedication that Uber has shown in helping to highlight the many problems this release has.

The other thing I would say in Guerilla's favour is that, most games released nowdays have a patch out pretty damn quick after the release to sort things out. I suppose a lot of the community are disappointed by what they see as the dragging of feet with Sierra and Relic.

the fact still remains that both of your posts are equally as right as the other...so i doubt many people can take sides.

once again - THANK YOU UBER - for the hard work and perserverence you have shown in this issue.

[GuerillaChiken]

I don't want this to be a "sides" issue, it shouldn't be. Uber wants a good game and so do I. So I'm not going to get into one of those arguments that have no conclusion.

I will say this, I don't know the Relic Developers, but from what the game "looks" like now, they are talented and take pride in their work. And if they are truly the people I suspect they are they want to know about problems they want to know about issues with their creation. I don't blame the developers, they don't set dates for game releases, fat cat execs in Armani suits do that, ESPECIALLY the Vivendi folks.

I love this game, i just got done playing five games that actually finished. I just want to know that our concerns are being heard, and that things are in motion. Better late than never right?

If you say that they are Uber, I trust that they are. But until it is fixed, people who devote their gaming time to this title are going to complain, and rightly so.

If there is no point in complaining though, I ask you, would there be an effort to put out a patch? Probably not. Change only comes if people speak up. If change is slow then you have to speak a little louder.

BTW, I wrote Sierra a love letter as did Festus OMO...the response was that they don't have time to read our letters and they directed us to other addresses. I hope Relic shows more class, I think they will.

BAWK!!

[komninosm]

Email the Sierra suggestion address that's what I did. Our emails went to the wrong department. They need to go to suggestions/complain department not some guy that fixes bugs or addresses video card problems. He doesn't have that authority.

[GuerillaChiken]

I sent the same letter to both the addresses, still waiting for a response. Festus OMO submitted letters sooner than I did, so he willl probably get some feedback sooner.

Just waiting...

[Donoby]

I've just emailed Sierra to do something about the patch and the bugs espacialy the one where you can control the ennemy's ship.

And they've answered me back. Wow! First time they bother to.

Anyway the answer to the problem was a link to this site, this forum and this thread. I don't believe they could do such a thing!

Well I hope when the patch will be available they would give you a link to download it and not the thread about it.

[ÜberJumper]

Update on the patch from Relic here:

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...threadid=20800

Basically it's underway.

[Trooper1023]

what about percieved necessary game tweaks? do we post 'em here? if not, where?

Originally posted by Trooper1023

Originally posted by severijn
I find frigates more of an archer while corvettes are the cavalry. The frigates must be protected at all times by anti-corvette fighters, corvettes.

excellent way to put it!

Originally posted by severijn
They are meant to do damage on range, shame the BC and DD go a longer range...

and that, i believe, is the underlying problem. personally, i think the BC ion turret range should be cut in half, while leaving the power the same. if done, then the BC's low speed would become the disadvantage it was supposed to be. as it is now, BCs only need their engines to go from the edge of the grav field a short ways inward, and *poof* they're in range and carving up enemy frigs and DDs.

come to think of it, the ICF ion cannon is a LOT bigger than the ion turret on a BC. shouldn't that mean that the ICF's beam is superior to a lone BC beam (half an ion turret) in some way? like, maybe, superior in range?

seriously though, i think that ALL frigs should have their weap ranges increased at least by half, while the DD and BC should have their's dropped.

[komninosm]

Hmm but if the range of supercaps was cut an enemy frigate force could fire away at long range while retreating and not sustain any casualties. No it's fine as it is. Only change needed is maybe change Ion Frig to 6000m (from 4000) so they equal BC and give them slower speed like 140 (from 150). What the game really needs is a fix to thrusters. They are equal to engines! Also the ships can move with thrusters only when attacking but when moving they have to stop and turn to face the direction they want to go.

In my mod I will try and fix all this stuff.

[astero700]

Hi uh... i was just wanting to say, that homeworld 2 is great, but if Sierra wasnt getting in the way, it would be 5x greater. So I would just llike to tell sierra... <insert swear word here> YOU!!!!

[astero700]

oh, and sorry to double post, but is it possible for HW3 to be published by someone other than Sierra?

[Ace2001]

Originally posted by Trooper1023
come to think of it, the ICF ion cannon is a LOT bigger than the ion turret on a BC. shouldn't that mean that the ICF's beam is superior to a lone BC beam (half an ion turret) in some way? like, maybe, superior in range?

yes, its bigger then the turrents, so what? wouldnt they put the power generators for the turrents inside the ship and not in the turrents? or something like that? because theres alot of space in that BC.

[Trooper1023]

Originally posted by komninosm
Hmm but if the range of supercaps was cut an enemy frigate force could fire away at long range while retreating and not sustain any casualties.

exactly!!! then you would need your own frigs to go out and chase 'em down!! frigs would be useful again!! yaaaaaaaaay! narf!

[.:theBeest:.]

I havnt been able to get very far in the game because of it crahsing, but that is most probobally my system.

What I have played is ausome!

Well done HW2 team

[DrkR3dDr4g0n]

Originally posted by Trooper1023

exactly!!! then you would need your own frigs to go out and chase 'em down!! frigs would be useful again!! yaaaaaaaaay! narf!

And here comes the whole part of needed a strat and tactics, becuase now a bc wouldnt be able to waltz in and kill everything but fighters and vettes. If that was implemented, then u would need anti-frig fighters or vetts, or even frigs, to cover the bcs. This would bring a big need for actualy having everything and a balance, and corridnating with ure team, which means, n00bs could make things even worse, but hey, all the better reason to teach em!

[Bri_Dog]

Originally posted by astero700
oh, and sorry to double post, but is it possible for HW3 to be published by someone other than Sierra?

Only if somebody buys the rights to HW from Sierra.

[ÜberJumper]

The patch is coming.

The patch is coming.

It will be done when it's done.

Yes other games have been patched sooner...but as you know that's the publisher's call, not the developers. We're working on Sierra's timetable, as we've stated many times.

There are some fixes we've had in since September. But there are a lot of fixes that we didn't know were needed until two weeks ago. There are two sides to this issue. Believe me when I say we would love to release a patch every couple of weeks if it were possible for Vivendi to test, localize, and distribute it on that timetable.

It's been 12 weeks since the game came out. It's my hope that you'll have a patch before another two or three weeks pass.

-geoff

Most recent monty quote.

[Dmitry]

Do you not think that by now if you guys dont rush the patch a bit most gamers, like me mabey, are ready to abandon sierra and vin.... The reason we push for a patch is NOT because we have nothing better to do, but because we want to be able to keep playing the game and not have to wait a year before any changes are implemented.

[yian]

Who cares.

[Onslaught-X]

Sierra and Relic sure as hell don't care!

[ÜberJumper]

Relic does care Onslaught, or they wouldn't be working overtime on a patch while actually being asigned to other projects.

[Onslaught-X]

No offence UberJumper but what makes you think they are REALLY making a patch?

[ÜberJumper]

Because they have said so?

[Onslaught-X]

I can also say I am Bill Gates!
I don't believe them at their word and can you blame me after 12 weeks?

[ÜberJumper]

I believe them.

http://forums.relicnews.com/forumdis...?s=&forumid=80

[Dmitry]

Ive seen patches released a few weeks after game release that fixed a horrible number of bugs and they all seemed like they had to rewrite large segments of the game, i hope this patch will do miracles for the game like you guys are giving us forplay in...

:fencing: <--- this is what i feel like were doing no?

[Dmitry]

BIG BIG question, how many people are working on the patch? If sierra is funding 1 person to do all the work then the issue would have been settled long ago... not enough man power.

[yian]

:report:....Just thought you guys might find it interesting: Deus Ex Invisible War has its first patch released.

[ÜberJumper]

Eidos is not Sierra.

[Pherdnut]

Tell us about the Rabbits Uberjumper JK

[Dmitry]

I was thinking of Deus Ex too... Look game was JUST released a couple of weeks ago and it ALREADY has a patch that rewrites the mouse-functionality which caused a "lag" effect when using a mouse, id say its a MAJOR fix and it was almost instantanious. In adition the made the game much more user-friendly... The patch came out VERY fast. With the folks at sierra, if they want to compete, you guys gota release a patch when its needed, not a year later and say "hey we RELEASED a patch like we SAID" but by then noone plays...

[Dmitry]

I mean its obvious Eidos is not Sierra but why should it matter? unless of course to say that Eidos is a MUCH better company and we should buy Eidos and not Sierra products? I mean thats the only message u could send out with that responce Uber... I know YOU are not responcible for patching but for once, id like to hear "expect a patch in 1-3 months" that way id say... O ok ill check back in a few months.

But you guys say "Soon" every day... when is soon? tomorow? day after? a week later? a month? a year? a decade? give us SOMEthing to go on more specific than soon or in a few weeks... say "Wait 10 weeks or wait 5 weeks" anything that will tell us ok so we should occupy ourselves and not have to constantly check back here and get disapointed...

[ÜberJumper]

I don't work for Relic or Sierra, so I'm not in a position to speak for them as to when the patch will be released.

What has been publically posted is that the patch is being tested at Sierra. To me that implies that it will be released soon.

As for Sierra's policies on patches, that is a major difference between them and other publishers it seems. Sierra takes a wait and see approach (I presume to consolidate multiple fixes into less patches, therefore saving money) instead of fixing things that are borked.

[Dmitry]

Well, ALL that we really asked for is:
do a very quick fix on all missions to eliminate OBVIOUS bugs in them, post that patch, and keep working, if something needs changing its alright as long as we had these patches early enough we would be happy even if they dont fix 100% of the bugs... i cant say that for the sync errors as they are harder to fix I AGREE THAT TAKES TIME... but at least the customers would be happy with a bit of improvement. i mean this game is not meant for the programers, its for gamers(CUSTOMERS) and customers can stop liking you... as you know...

in homeworld and cata... the patches were long awaited... did they fix anything? not really..

*sigh* too bad this wont get the patch released, o well, guess its back to studing... heh.

:wow:

[Panama Jack]

You know saying the patch is being tested by Sierra doesn't instil great confidence in it being a decent patch.

[.:theBeest:.]

everything has to be tested

[HoustonDragon]

Originally posted by Onslaught-X
I can also say I am Bill Gates!
I don't believe them at their word and can you blame me after 12 weeks?

Sheesh.. paranoia strikes again. If you want a great example of a game company and patching, take a peek over at Blizzard. How many years now have they continued to listen to their fans and create patches for games? Diablo 2, Starcraft, Warcraft 3... etc. All of these continue to be tweaked and adjusted as they go, including with Blizzard's recent War3x patch for the additional bonus levels.

Considering Uber's habits around these forums, he's not exactly someone I'd accuse of lying or trying to "trick" anyone, and it's certainly not in Relic's interests to tell someone they're making a patch, and then -not. How silly is that? If they didn't want to make a patch, and didn't "give a crap" as you seem to believe, they would have ignored these forums and complaints, and left it alone. Be grateful and happy to see the Relic devs, and the Relicnews modders responding and interested in their fanbase. It's a trait sorely lacking in a lot of companies.

Personally, I'm glad to see the news of the patch, and look forward to playing HW2 again under it. The original game, as it stood out of the box, is still a great piece of work (even with a few gripes =), and can only get better.

[ÜberJumper]

Patch update from Relic.

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...threadid=22296

Added to first post in this thread...

[Panama Jack]

Originally posted by .:theBeest:.
everything has to be tested

You missed my point.

I have absolutely NO confidence in Sierra's QA ability to find problems that need to be corrected before release.

[ÜberJumper]

PJ:

Regardless of whether or not Sierra QA finds all the issues, it's still got to go through Sierra QA before they authorize it for release.

[ÜberJumper]

Patch is released - Thread locked and undocked.