-DEV issues still in 2.301

[OP8 322]

Myself, and 3 other friends all having same problem with -dev command now letting *.SGB maps show up and single playable, but we all get "incompatible game version" disconnects when trying to multiplay custom as well as stock maps. Another effect we all observed was that none of us could connect to really anybody unless we removed -dev command.
All 4 of us are patched and up to date and have encountered various troubleshot and failed -dev multiplayer connection problems.
Is there something we are all unaware of, or is this -dev multiplayer still broken for anyone else?

[Bota99]

I am getting that too.

[Mannerheim]

-dev was never really ment to be used with multiplayer, use .sga packed maps and mods. It should only be used when you are making a mod or map and testing it runtime because it has cheats and stuff enabled.

[Bonnet]

I deleted a rant...

[OP8 322]

Ok, fine. maybe my last recently deleted response was a bit severe, but the point of it was that there are problems and mannerhiem's response doesnt address those problems. I understand that -dev wasnt intended for the the multiplayer experience for obvious reasons BUT sgb files were. SGB files require the -dev command and are the primary accepted and software supported format as decided by the worldbuilder.

So the first major layer that needs to be addressed is how do I get the game to recognize and play the files that the worldbuilder saves by default without heavy third party modification?

Second layer problem is that sga files tend to have compatibility issues and dont always work right hence why sgb files were thier replacement. How do I con the worldbuilder into saving an sga file that actually works like the sgb files do?

Third layer problem: is that the two maps I'm working on right this moment work in the game just fine as sgb in single player but the worldbuilder botches them into game unrecognizable files when saved as sga. How do I ensure that a file that works one minute will still work the next when converted with the supposedly developer supplied mapping tools?

Fourth layer question: will the game designated standard of SGB every actually be supported by the game it was made for without having to enable cheat mode and if so, when can the community expect this fix or implimentation to occur?

[ÜberJumper]

This sounds like a great thread for the map making forums.

[OP8 322]

Thanks UJ, it didnt start out that way but is becoming of such. You're welcome to move it should that be appropriate.

[Mannerheim]

Wrong, .sgb files are not ment to be distributed! .sga files are! worldbuilder has export command in the menu that the mapper is supposed to use when the map is ready. .sgb + all the multiple .tga are uncompressed raw files for worldbuilder only that take 4-5 times more space than single .sga

[OP8 322]

I very distinctly recall forum posts about the sgb files being the new standard when coh/of compatibility with sga had problems. I feel I've wasted more than enough time on this subject in the last few months to justify arguing about it anymore or even finding those posts. The sga files were made entirely incompatible with the game for a duration untill the Coh launcher became available, and from my understanding that was the only reason the launcher was made.

- I know the size differences between the files and it's obvious. still doesnt help the issue with worldbuilder failing to make working sga's out of perfectly playable sgbs. Steam install remember as well? That makes a big difference as to where the world builder saves and references these mysterious and most of the time missing files. If your pure logic were in techical truth, most of the maps available to download prior to 2.300 wouldnt have been in sgb now would they have? Or do the mapping sites just like pissing away bandwidth for no reason?

Oh, P.s- people who have steam or any other alternate install vehicle for this game hate map install executables. the directory paths are NEVER right and installing a map from exe takes litterally 10 minutes longer to install than a zipped or rar'd file with no stored folders.

UJ, this is officially your cue. this discussion should be moved to mapping forum.

[Corsix]

ÜberJumper: Perhaps it should be in mapping, but on the other hand, it'll get more (Relic) eyeballs here.

Modders make the maps, but if it were only simple to distribute them, then the people in CoH G.D. would all be playing them

[Asp3132]

Me and my friends are having no problems at all with my maps.( .sga or .sgb) -dev is working fine for us.

[ÜberJumper]

I've seen other thread like this in the tech forums recently, and I'm convinced that the -dev switch is working correctly, but that people have different mods installed so it won't let them play together.

[OP8 322]

only one of the 4 guys i play with has a mod installed. the rest of us dont. We're trying to do as much trouble shooting as possible and eventually we'll prolly get it it's just so damn frustrating cause we all feel like this should be such a simple thing.

ps uber- getting eyeballs on this was kinda the point because if you post something like this on the modding forums it's usually dismissed as "oh some crazy modder doing something the game was never meant for anyway" I started here because it's a matter of something simple on stock machines with basic CohOF.

Side note, feel almost priveledged having mannerhiem, uberjumper and corsix all post to this issue considering the collective notoriety... ah well, a thought.
anyway, I'll post one more if we get this figured out.

[Bota99]

I do not have a single mod installed.

[Bota:16]

Out of 6 of us that have tried to run -dev mode 4 of us can use it and 2 can not. It's reporting "incompatible version" whether we have custom map loaded or a stock map so I don't think it has anything to do with .sga/.sgb files.

[OP8 322]

For the record, the issue we are having is like bota:16 said. just having -dev enabled prohibits us from connecting to anyone custom map or stock game map. Essentially it isnt even a custom map thing. -dev = cant connect to anyone on any map

[elite]

This is strange. We haven't noticed any problem with the -dev mode. Have you guys all renamed the shortcut, and removed the "Unblocked" word from it?

[ECM747X]

Make sure everyone playing has the "model" setting in video options set to the same as the rest of the players in the match. It won't let you connect a lot of times if it isn't the same for all playing. Just had this issue again the other night with a group I play with. I had my settings on high and everyone else was low and could not connect. Changed models to low and right in I went. See if this helps.

[mrmertz]

I HAVE to have -dev tagged to CoH or any of the maps I download will not even show up within my menu. Went back and deleted -dev - all the downloaded maps disappeared off the menu again. If it were meant JUST to be a developers tool, how do you even get them to show in the menu without it? My buddy and I have yet to see the conflicts online as we simply haven't tried it yet.

Running Vista 32bit, Vanilla CoH 2.301

[Mannerheim]

Its beause most map makers dont create .sga (they are either lazy or dont know how to do it)

[mrmertz]

I'll have to go back and check that tonight when I get home from work. So .sga file extensions should NOT have to have the -dev tag in order to show up in your map menu then.

[Bota:16]

Correct, .sga files don't need the game to be started in -dev mode to be playable.

@ECM747X, Of the 4 of us that can connect in -dev mode we don't have the same "model" settings. But we'll give it a try for the other 2, you never know.

[RGRhawkeye]

I too am having problems connecting using -dev command (incompatible version). Prior to the 2.300 patch -dev command allowed us all to connect and play custom maps (sga and sgb) no prob......new patch 2.300 disabled -dev......so we used the custom launcher which allowed us to play sga maps but no joy with sgb (which DID work prior to 2.300)....we can load sgb now (as noted in other comments) for solo skirmish but not play online. Attempts to convert sgb to sga as noted by op8 fail from world builder with some maps. Per Mannerheim we are not lazy and do know how to convert sgb to sga however why disable or otherwise confuse game play with differing formats dependent on new patch changes? Why is there not a single format export for world builder and online play? It does not need to be rocket science and should not be to sit down, make a map, share with friends, and ultimately upload for the community enjoyment. The comments by ECM747X about vid settings are a great actual suggestion!!! And we will try these tonight. As to elite's comments i launch from steam or from the launcher..... the only thing that has changed during the whole mess was patches. If cheating is a concern for online play and -dev.....why not just note next to a players name that -dev enabled???? most people who play COH can read.....

game tip "-dev allows for the play of mod's and custom maps--however it can enable cheats----play at own risk" instead of "searching for ways to make the game work and play of custom maps possible are best used aggressively--good luck sucker"

It still baffles me as to how you can run a contest for custom team maps and yet offer little to no support for map compatibility ---let alone disabling -dev??????? So we wilde away our time in the dark regions searching for 3rd party apps and fixes just to try to play what takes most map makers dozens of hours just to create....why so difficult to streamline the finalization?

....just my 2 cents

edit for additional data....without launching with -dev or using the launcher NO custom maps show up sga OR sgb no matter which folder you put the maps it

[darklen15]

Ok guys that have -dev not working correctly - check this out-ECM747X is right - you need to make sure everyone is on the same page with their "model" setting in their graphics menu - either everyone is all on high or all on low- if not there will be no connection - you wil ljsut see grey out games. I verified this already and -dev is back the way it was before - still need that "model" setting to be the same as everyone - case closed IMO

[OP8 322]

RGRhawkeye- all points agreed except there seems to be a difference in sga performance in relation to install vehicle ie: steam / store purchased CD / etc, where there are install directory specific intolerances somewhere in the game code. People who installed from a cd/dvd whatever seem to have better luck making things work and the potential reasons for this are many. This leads me to deduce that at least a portion of the custom map issue somewhere stem from the game and everyone who plays it not reliably knowing how file paths are set up. The map file location changes via install vehicle, as well has changed or been modified over time by patches, launchers, etc. There are just SOOO many variables in this respect that all facts have been reduced to opinions from one player to the next because theres no consistant standard. This is why General Motors and Ford dont change engine designs for one model car every few days.

I get the impression that what we need as a start is a list of facts regarding the configurations of files that can be proven to work consistantly instead of hit or miss depending on the machine its installed on.

Heres a suggestion that I hope someone on the development front considers:
If a game is made for integration of custom maps, these files should be stored in a folder that is the same for all potential install methods. This prime folder should be subfolder transparent or so if someone micros thier subfolders differently the map still shows up playable-
example where:
c:\my documents\gamexxx\custommaps\mapname.map =
c:\my documents\gamexxx\custommaps\mapname\mapname.map =
c:\my documents\gamexxx\custommaps\anyname\mapname.map
where if at least the simple base name dir is present, ie^ \custommaps, A. everything under it is game readable, B. easy to get at, C. easy to organize, D. and STAYS the same folder layout from patch to patch, install to install.

Please lord tell me that I'm making sense and people know what I'm talking about here, because right now the above statements A-D are all false for CoH. Heck, it'd even be compatible with third party launchers.

[ShrubMiK]

The friend I mostly play with is also suffering from this -dev issue...I think it is a problem his end because apparently he cannot see any games online with -dev enabled, whereas I see lots of games but greyed out (i.e. what you would expect). We both had model set to 50% though, so I suspect although that may be a partial answer, it's not the full story.

Re. -dev and .sga/.sgb...I'm not sure why people find this so confusing, let me try to explain.

.sga is the "proper" format for packaging and distributing maps. Doesn't it make sense to distribute them as one file with everything in that you need for one map? There may also be some optimisations applied at the time the .sga is created, not sure about that, but that has been the case in some gmaes and their map formats in the past.

However, if you are developing and testing a map, it would be a PITA to have to continually pack and unpack all the components each time you want to make a small change and test it out. Therefore the game allows you to operate in "developer" mode, with it enabled you can do all sorts of things that are not allowed in "normal" play, including the ability to run non-packaged maps.

Summary: maps should be developed as .sgb plus all the other associate files, then packaged into an .sga, tested one final time to check it still works, and only then distributed.

Now what I don't know is why so many custom maps are not "properly" packaged. Maybe it's lack of knowledge, Maybe it is laziness. Maybe there is (as somebody above suggested) a problem with WorldBuilder such that it can't always package maps. Or maybe when WorldBuilder cannnot package a map into a .sga it is a sign that something has not been properly done by the mapper. I honestly don't know.

So where does that leave us? In a bit of an awkward place. We certainly shouldn't have to use -dev to play custom maps, whose fault it is that in practice we do need to use -dev for the vast majority of custom maps I don't know, but it would be nice if something could be done to enable/encourage only .sgas to be distributed in future.

In the short term, we need -dev to work...which means getting to the bottom of whatever this current "incompatible game version" issue is

[Bota:16]

Ok guys that have -dev not working correctly - check this out-ECM747X is right - you need to make sure everyone is on the same page with their "model" setting in their graphics menu - either everyone is all on high or all on low- if not there will be no connection - you wil ljsut see grey out games. I verified this already and -dev is back the way it was before - still need that "model" setting to be the same as everyone - case closed IMO

I can confirm this as well. The only setting I believe you need to make the same is "model quality". It's the second drop down option in the graphics menu. Seems odd that this would cause "an incompatible version" but it does. We played about 5 or 6 custom maps last night with no problems. Maybe a mod could sticky this thread.

[Bota99]

Yupp.. to verify what the others said, it is that single setting causing the -dev headache. My game works fine again. Hopefully they find a fix for that sometime soon.