Snipers overrated?

[DorianGrayLLP]

I see these guys a lot. Every game at least one gets built by someone, but more often then not they get run over, shot to death, ambushed by a Bren, countersniped by a recon Tommy (heh heh ) or mortared. Sometimes, I'm just moving around and I run into a cloaked sniper then "wtfpwn" lol. This happens pretty often.

This leads me to the conclusion, for 340MP and the amount of support and micro it takes is the sniper overrated? I would say its the punk kid in us that finds the sniper so "cool" that makes use a unit that isn't.. very good.

I seen some games where a sniper in hands of a skilled player backing up with a HMG can do some real damage but out of the 120ish games I've played so far only 2-3 were the sniper significant and got off more than 2-4 shots.

[Flonky]

When I use my snipers properly I usually pull off at least 15 kills with them (once managed 50 kills hehe). Snipers aren't the easiest unit to use but they keep your opponent on their toes, and make them invest in the time and resources to be able to counter sniping units.

[bottenbreker]

i agree with flonky.
snipers are pretty micro-intense but in the end, they're worth it. they sem to have trigger fear into the opposing player. thus, he feels the need to take care of the sniper as quickly as possible. sometimes he even gets so focussed on getting rid of your sniper, his forces are getting owned pretty badly by an MG or something.

[NoneSuch]

I always use snipers, they're really the best early anti-infantry unit ingame due to the confirmed kill you always get with them.

Now people don't use them correctly most of the time, I'm also to blame for that. The real way to use snipers is make sure they don't have fire at will on, and micro them carefully.

Snipers aren't only about killing iether, they're also about installing that fear into the enemy. I've seen 2+ squads of men retreat just because i've taken one guy out with a sniper.

[Flonky]

It's great against brits as they have to constantly have a finger over the counter snipe hotkey just incase...while you are capping the entire map.

Snipers also make excellent spotters for artillery and make better use of MG42's amazing range. Just remember in this role to put your sniper on hold fire and put him somewhere where he won't get detected.

Never put a sniper in a building. EVER.

[Ballist1x]

Never put a sniper in a building. EVER.

even when cammo'ed . they just die instantly.

[Apogee]

The only good time to garrison a building with a sniper is when the sniper has been found, and there isn't a way out (i.e. retreating is suicide). A garrisoned sniper will probably die, but he'll last a while longer and perhaps long enough to get saved.

I play Wher mostly and I love getting snipers out with Vet3. Vet3 is pretty cheap for support units, and a pair of snipers with the reduced cooldown and added toughness are stupidly effective. Find a builder squad? Dead in 2 volleys. Infantry? Dead unless they have a jeep with them, or they run (and so you take the territory). Best of all, put on hold fire and spot for your vet3 mortars; carnage.

[Falaris]

Snipers are overrated and underrated.

Seriously, what role does a sniper have vs. a jeep / biker gang, or vehicle heavy PE, or bren carriers for that matter?

Also, snipers are sooo tempting to use in ways that are really stupid. Your typical image of a sniper is a guy that picks off targets by himself, the professional one shot kill type that takes out high value targets.

He IS a high value target, and working on his own actually means he looses his biggest advantage, a 55 range rifle. As long as he works on his own he is allways in range of his enemies' weapons. (Vision range = infantry weapons' shooting range.).

I've found that it's easier to use him as EITHER an artillery spotter, OR as a killer working in concert with the rest of your forces, but in both roles he's invaluable.

[LawrenceofArabi]

"Never put a sniper in a building. EVER."

Exception: Unless you have an MG in the building with it.

[Q77]

I use them more for scouting than for killing, unless it is mahem everywhere. Besides the fair damage it can cause to enemy troops when well micro'd , it also adds some fear to the opponent.

[bottenbreker]

Exception: Unless you have an MG in the building with it.

then i would still just keep it outside the house. for the enemy won't be able to reach my sniper

[TheUnknown]

The only use I have found for snipers are,
Arty spotter
Recon
Pissing the brit player of by snipeing his vetted officers
Counter snipering

The last 2 can also be done with a jeep or a bike.

[bottenbreker]

Pissing the brit player of by snipeing his vetted officers

takes 3 shots. by that time the brit player already bashed his retreat button over a million times.

[Apogee]

Oh yeah, sniping vet officers is priceless. If you can work up a pair or even three snipers, its pretty much instant death to brits.

[v00lks]

lol I had like 2 games in a row where my sniper had 45+ kills 2v2 AT against PE. The PE just didnt have an answer for my dueling snipers. Defenitely not overrated bro.

[troglodytejb]

American sniper should be pretty secure in a building with an MG if he's vet 1. Even stuff with a 100% natural accuracy has effective 60% accuracy against a garrisoned vet1 American.

[tedman109]

2-3 snipers lategame in infantry heavy games are invaluable, especially vs vet3 infantry! traveling with a hoard of riflemen, hanging back with the AT guns, they rack up kills FAST and are almost impossible to take out unless they get nailed by random arty. They are definitely micro intensive, gotta make sure they dont stay in the same place too long so they cant bring mortars down on you. definitely a unit worthy of mastering.

[BattleCleric]

I like snipers as arti spotters and for killing paks and mortars. Don't put them in houses, even with mgs. Set them up to cover choke points early.

[Sturmtruppen]

keep them around buildings/halftracks so they can jump in when a bike/jeep comes over, then nuke the bike and move on, i use my snipers pretty aggressively, but i also run around with bikes to scare off his snipers

[Teleon]

I think snipers are worth their weight! I don’t normally play a game without getting at least one sniper as I find them invaluable at turning early game infantry battles in my favor or even mid game harassment.

[Demonic Spoon]

"Never put a sniper in a building. EVER."

I would disagree with this. Snipers in buildings are MUCH harder to kill via regular fire, and get a rate of fire/sight range bonus. If you're using your sniper to support your infantry by picking off enemy troops, sticking it in a building can help greatly.

I wouldn't recommend it if there are enemy snipers around, though, and you should certainly never put a sniper in a building unless you have considerable support.

The one exception is if you have troops in the building with the sniper. It's pretty safe for your own sniper ,even if they have snipers around. And no, the guys in the building don't need to be an MG team.

[Texture]

I would disagree with this. Snipers in buildings are MUCH harder to kill via regular fire, and get a rate of fire/sight range bonus. If you're using your sniper to support your infantry by picking off enemy troops, sticking it in a building can help greatly.

I wouldn't recommend it if there are enemy snipers around, though, and you should certainly never put a sniper in a building unless you have considerable support.

The one exception is if you have troops in the building with the sniper. It's pretty safe for your own sniper ,even if they have snipers around. And no, the guys in the building don't need to be an MG team.

Actually, in certain situations you can jump in a building alone and do just fine. Almost getting hunted down by a 3 man Pgren squad? Jump into a building. W/o flame nades, there is no chance of them killing you out of that building before you snipe them all.

Of course it's pretty risky in terms of getting caught out by another sniper, but if you know what your opponents have/can have, it's a pretty reasonable risk. Much better than getting revealed and killed for sure.

[v00lks]

put engies in the building first than the sniper, other sniper shoots engie and your sniper gets his...

[Pyro Paul]

the sniper can be one of the greatest assets to the player or one of the worst MP sinks the player gets... and really its success all depends on your enemy.

the way i usually use them is as a squads marksman i keep them uncloaked and run them with my squads. sniper tips the infintry fight to my side as he picks of the infintry one by one, where as the squad takes the buffer/human shield and wards off other threats to the sniper.

if my enemy gets automatic weapons i almost always put my sniper into a building because automatic weapons recieve a penelty for firing on garrisoned units. 1-2 snipers can often dominate STG Pgrens or Stormies as well as do a number on MP40 volks. a lot better than they would of done stealthed and exposed outside.

[Juxe]

I've seen this one case, and this was hilarious (not to mention high costing) but what the guy did was, hide one sniper in a building and keep another sniper camoed, so anything that tried to take him out (infantry wise) was shot from the side instantly and they thought it was from the building =P

[Heroin]

Well imo they should integrate a hardcap to them. About 3 snipers should be enough. Ive seen too many games where noobs only built snipers and gained a crushing defeat or where pros used them so insanly good that there was no effective way to push forward with your infantry or to kill these good damn sniping c****^^

[NoneSuch]

Rofl, someone must utterly suck if they got beat by snipers or used so many they screwed up their game. Snipers are so easy to counter it's not funny, they only work when used with other units or micro'd very carefully.

The cap... is there expensive, if you're paying 1k manpower for only 3 individual troops you're taking a huge risk.

[Yob]

i like to have at about 2 snipers in games, 1v1 or bigger. I mainly use them to travel with my general inf so that any weapon teams i comeacross/AT guns, just die instantly. Also sometimes you dont even have to keep them cammoed as they really do just blend in with a few volks/gren squads. I even played a guy who tried to run straight through 2 squads to mp40 volks just to get at the two snipers supporting them from a little behind. Didnt end well for him.

thats the kind of stupid behavour that snipers can cause. Thats what makes them so good. Its like when a KT comes out, it can really only do so much damage, but people get fixated on removing them.

[Promethian]

Well one of my friends once got 82 kills with a sniper (I"ll post the replay if you want) and if I'm right I once shot 2 rangers with a single round from a sniper. (Seemed like they both fell at the same time and there were no other units nearby.) So I woulden't say their entirely useless if you use them correctly.

[SilencerPL]

The only thing that troubles me is that US snipers picks up veterancy so quick. Specialy against PGrens. Due to PGrens low squad size I think that acc should be like 75% against them or maybe 75% dmg to full health. Double sniper combo is too deadly for PE.

[NoneSuch]

How is it possible for a sniper to get 82 kills? I'm not sure I even field that many troops or ever need to reinforce that much.

[Dark Angel N00b]

Snipers are brilliant, my T1 wehr starts would be nowhere as effective without one of these guys backing up an MG42 and some volks. Kar98 volks are brilliant for hiding your sniper among, as neither unit should be getting in close with anything. It gets very frustrating for an opponent trying to tell his infantry to target a guy who keeps disappearing when he keeps clicking on the volksgrenadiers and getting surpressed by an MG.

Another thing i love using snipers for is a lure, a lot of people use the sniper warning to follow your man around until the ping disappears. This makes him brilliant for luring people into my beloved MG42/Volks trap.

Not only that but they are brilliant lategame as well, a pair of snipers and a king tiger are so demoralizing to players its unbelievable. If he counters with AT guns you can decrew them in two shots, rangers are killed 2-3 at a time by sniper/KT gun. Other tanks have to fight a KT and usually PAK 38 support, and god help him if he tries to use Rifles or PIATs.

Snipers are also fun for decrewing things in the backfield like howies and mortars, as long as you can keep them alive long enough.

[JamieLea]

The only thing that troubles me is that US snipers picks up veterancy so quick. Specialy against PGrens. Due to PGrens low squad size I think that acc should be like 75% against them or maybe 75% dmg to full health. Double sniper combo is too deadly for PE.

Triple is even funner

Panzer Grenadier squads dieing every 2 seconds

[zzSleeper]

Until one HT kills all your snipers.

My record is 2 snipers and a 30cal killed with a single Inf HT over the course of about 20 seconds.

[EroticCompany]

One of my 2v2 games, our opponents were very very weak and my m8 took easy and built 8 snipers. That was hilarious when British inf. got shot down like no tomorrow.

[kommodore]

Until one HT kills all your snipers

Exactly PE gets SC or INF HT extremely early and if they have 640mp+ worth of mp in snipers they wont have many if any at all riflemen, go hunting and flank mgs if they are there.

For 2 snipers I can have 3 SCs + starting kett to spot, how the hell are you gonna counter that with your snipers? By the logic of some people we should nerf SCs soley on that.

[Texture]

Exactly PE gets SC or INF HT extremely early and if they have 640mp+ worth of mp in snipers they wont have many if any at all riflemen, go hunting and flank mgs if they are there.

In a 1v1. In a 2v2, my partner almost always has a sniper as his first or second unit, depending on the map. They are incredibly powerful, and it's an art form really to use them properly w/o exposing them and getting them killed. A really good balancing act.

I cover them and work with them to the degree that I have button'd a simple 180 mp wehr bike just to preserve the sniper/s.

[bjack]

Teams of vet3 wehrmatch snipers and 88s are a devastating force.

[SilencerPL]

Exactly PE gets SC or INF HT extremely early and if they have 640mp+ worth of mp in snipers they wont have many if any at all riflemen, go hunting and flank mgs if they are there.

With vechicles you need to be on top of sniper to spot him. Also Pgrens must be 2-3 meters away to detect him. They should have more range. Not like Jeeps/Bike but at least 5-7 meters.

You say ketten but mostly it is suicide or you dont have ketten. Jeeps/Bikes at least can fight back.

[Hacking]

I put snipers in the church building in semios. If you already got troops in there enemy fires hit them 1st before the sniper.. Sniper also fire faster in that church .

[zzSleeper]

With vechicles you need to be on top of sniper to spot him. Also Pgrens must be 2-3 meters away to detect him. They should have more range. Not like Jeeps/Bike but at least 5-7 meters.

You say ketten but mostly it is suicide or you dont have ketten. Jeeps/Bikes at least can fight back.

Cloaked ketten spotting snipers is GG if he went with 2+snipers early game, run them down with an inf HT and you will be at an advantage so massive its simply impossible for him to recover from.

Sniper spam is really the easiest thing in the world for PE to deal with. Cloaked ketten spots-> infantry HT kills them. Infantry HT is like 6 times tougher than a bike, its perfect for killing anything from riflemen to the entire WSC line.

[BikerGnome]

Keep Snipers behind Inf and its is a hard time for PE. Inf HT has to come into sticky range to get them, just what they dont need. alternately backed up with 30Cal. Get 2 CP for AB and PE are in the shit. Sniper spam properly done is death to PE.

[stopgap]

i think the issue is that many people have a great deal of trouble using a sniper properly.

(i myself am a rather good player, but i tend to waste my sniper )

[Dymo]

As PE I like seeing pairs of US snipers. I can then build mobile cappers with MG's that will hunt them down with impunity.

A WSC start means stickies will not be a big issue upfront. LOL

[Texture]

Sniper spam is really the easiest thing in the world for PE to deal with. Cloaked ketten spots-> infantry HT kills them. Infantry HT is like 6 times tougher than a bike, its perfect for killing anything from riflemen to the entire WSC line.

Are you high? How exactly does this trick work on the many maps with defensible chokepoints and large buildings? St. Hillaire is a great example. How well does your vaunted HT work against snipers backed by .30 cals in warehouses?

Besides which, as a Brit teammate, it's always my highest priority to button ANYTHING which gets near my allies snipers. Even if it's a weak unit like a bike. What a bonus to me, that I get to kill a HT in the process.

[sgb]

Allies snipers are devastating in team games. The US player gets snipers and MGs, while the British player covers with tommies. There's little that can break that until the Axis team gets mortars.

[ebevan91]

snipers overrated? no.

my sniper today had 45+ kills

[NorrecV]

Two days ago(well, 3 technically just looked at the clock ...) I had a sniper on Semois with 61 kills. There are only 6 guys in a rifle squad(I was axis). So that could have been 10 rifle squads wiped out, or looked at another way 20 weapons crews. In reality it was a combination of the two with some engineers tossed in there, but still. 61 kills.

Tell me thats not worth 340 manpower.

I will say allied snipers are probably better because axis squads in general have less guys in them. Grenadier squads only have 4 guys. Two snipers, two volleys, squad down. Pioneers are only 2 guys, if the remaining guy doesn't retreat after being shot then he's dead, where as engineers would still have 2 men left who could get up there and maybe kill the sniper(it could happen).

The key is to keep your sniper near the rest of your units so he is covered. It really hurts when you lose a sniper whose made it that far though. So many times an M8 will turn and look at him and then he explodes.

[dazzo1987]

Snipers are pretty cool when used right, in a game last night i got one for some MG42s that the guy had put in houses near my base. By the end of the game sniper had like 28 kills and was level 3 vet, and half of the time i had him on 'hold fire' and was just using him to scout.

[German Steel!]

I love Snipers. I always play PE Tank Destroyers and my ally always plays Wehrmacht Defensive Doctrine.

I've made a build order for him which goes like this: 3 pios, second pio squad makes WMQ, 2 HMGs, vet 1 support squads, HMG, Tier 2, 2 Snipers, *forgot name of T2 building*, double-shrek Grens + AT gun.

The 2 snipers usually make the difference in whether we can advance somewhere or not. Mortars, AT crews, MGs, Captains and Lieutenants are gone very fast. Whenever he can, he gets 5 snipers to instantly eliminate squads of anything. 5 Snipers is really effective, because if you've got them properly backed up nothing can take them out short of artillery. Any infantry is going to be gone within some seconds when 5 vet 3 Snipers are involved.

They aren't overrated at all.