[OF] If you could change one thing.

[Ever]

Currently with the sector artillery being bugged and the decoy arty being used madly by the AI I have taken a break from CoH (well, the summer is here too, that counts a lot). Anyway I had a game last night and had a chat with the people I was playing with and they all had one grievance with the balancing in CoH, particularly with OF.

I used to think the Brits had it easy with the Arty and the Churchill Crocodiles but it seems players have not only become able to counter the Brits but now its impossible for such things as 25pounders to be built and even trenches have become useless due to flame weapons being in abundance to all infantry except the Brits (The British did use flamethrowers in WW2, however, not just on Crocodile tanks).

To this there was a lot of ranting from the allies, I was PE and happily bettering the poor lads on the other side with my assault troops and not even bothering making any tanks because shrecks are so good against Fireflys and Cromwells.

Anyway, it ended with everyone stating what needs to change and I did not want to reach the conclusion they met without a consensus from more people, thus I have posted on Relics own forums to see what you would change if you had the chance.

To keep it easy to read, lets form our answers like so...
1.
I would replace: Decoy artillery with Typhoon strafing-runs.
Reasons: Currently the decoy artillery is not really effective as it can be dodged easily, if you are trying to save your troops from a King Tiger or a Puma the decoy arty simply means the Axis player will move forwards towards the troops and after that the troops are all alone. Also, why should the British have a less powerfull off map ability when the American airborne have three types of aircraft runs and yet they have RRs too.
Feasibility: The Typhoon is already in game, but only on the single player, it would be a simple case of using the same coding as the P47 strafing runs but with rockets and machine guns.
2.
I would add: The 57mm to the list of available Glider HQ call ins.
Reasons: The 57mm was a British weapon, the Americans have it (they also have the crab flail, that was British and the Americans did not use it). It also would justify the Glider HQ, the commandos are supposed to be more mobile and a bit like the Airborne, you are not classed as mobile if you have to still bring in engineers to support Commandos behind lines to build an emplacement, you also can't build emplacements in out of supply sectors and trenches are too easily overcome.
Feasibility: Change the name of the 57mm to QF 75 mm and fit it into the HQ Glider call in list, put the weak PIAT fireteam into the standard Glider and possibly give them one more Commando to their fireteam.
3.
I would change: The Pumas armour
Reasons: To be more realistic, in game it is very effective against infantry and yet it can also rush allied positions due to its speed and ability to take quite a bit of damage. My Wher team-mate in my last game proved to me that the multiple Puma / Shreck squads rush is still a tactic that plagues the game as it is cheap, the Pumas can rush the infantry and run away from tanks taking multiple shots and surviving wile the Shrecks can deal with the tanks with ease.
Feasibility: Hopefully a config change is all that is needed in this case. The Puma is just an armoured car, the armour should represent that, or else the Humber could make an appearance and own a Panzer IV in the same way.

Discuss and tell me some things you would change.

[Soviet779]

1.
I would buff: The kettenkrad, it needs the ability to fight off enemy jeeps through a rear/front mounted anti tank cannon or heavy machine gun, giving it a small mortar wouldnt hurt either

Reasons: The kettenkrad is not very good against jeeps and they use that lame pathing exploit to kill them, i use this exploit myself and it works a charm.

Feasibility: Very feasible, just add a heavy machine gun to the front and a little mortar to the back

2.
I would buff: The hummel, it needs to be able to achieve maximum range without having to be sighted, the priest dosent need to be sited why does the hummel!

Reasons: Its only fair for the faction that has the poorest heavy artillery capabilities in teamplay, hummels wouldnt affect 1v1 balance too much as the game is lost/won by that point anyway. Stukkas in a gang of 3 are awesome with vet 2 and brittish priests dont need to be sighted for their range, the hummel needs this ability too.

Feasibility: Very feasible, just remove the siting button and buff the hummels normal firing range

3.
I would nerf: Rangers, they need to perform worse against other infantry, leave their anti tank capabilities as is but they need to be easily slaughtered by anti infantry infantry or maybe a vehicle if it is lucky.

Reasons: Its bullcrap how spammable they still are, they need to perform much worse against other infantry so they can be countered more effectively.

Feasibility: Very feasible, just remove the tommies upgrade or nerf its damage.

[Painmuffin]

The kettenkrad, it needs the ability to fight off enemy jeeps through a rear/front mounted anti tank cannon or heavy machine gun, giving it a small mortar wouldnt hurt either

What the hell?

Very feasible, just remove the tommies upgrade or nerf its damage.

Again, what the hell? Tommie guns suck, it's the rangers armor that makes them look good.

One change:
1: Throw a goddamn massive wrench into the PE teching machine. Bullocks with a 8min medium tank.
Reason: It's IMBA bullshit like this that ruins the game
Feasibility: Add fuel cost, delay build time or decrease the time to build 57mm's.

[German Steel!]

If I could change one thing with OF?
I'd take it away. It just made the game worse... I mean sure, it added new factions, but they're so dull. Especially the brits with their damn artillery spamming. You can't stop at one spot to have a good ol' fashioned firefight anymore, and your men are defeated by 2 clicks, not tactics/strategies.

I agree with the user under me, though... PE are ok, but Brits are just gah. They're a bit imbalanced, but that can be handled. The problem with them is that they're so completely boring to face...

[Narf]

1: Remove british from the game.
Reason: It's IMBA bullshit like this that ruins the game
Feasibility: very feasible, just disable it with a bool like brit_enabled = false; or something

[ViiKumi]

Reasons: The kettenkrad is not very good against jeeps and they use that lame pathing exploit to kill them, i use this exploit myself and it works a charm.

That hasn't been in the game since 2.300.. IF you rant, please rant with class.

Okay, so you would like to replace the arty with better "arty"... Well, isn't that nice? I'd also like my king tiger to have phasers and it should also work like the Protoss Carrier (pushing out goliaths, or maybe motorcycles to attack nearby units). Pioneers should also have the 15 munitions upgrade to Stim Packs and they should pack level 3 armor.

No - Way.

[Tseng_Fox]

1) Nerf British Artillery spamming

reason: It isnt fun loosing units to an ability that requires no skill

fesibility: very easy. Double the cost of british artillery or double the cooldown.

2) Nerf Rangers and Commandos

reason: FSJ got an unnessecery nerf and now they are just not cost effective. They do not match up to any other elite infrantry.

fesibility: easy. Buff the guns they start with or decrease cost.

3) Give the munitions HT and Vampire HT that actually make them worthwhile building

reason: these are unuseable in 1vs1.

fesibility: simple.

[Ever]

I would actually like to see the Arty speciality gone. Look at Hochwald (sp?) Gap, a Brit on that island with the bridges destroyed can wipe the Wher and PE bases out. I like my PE but the Brits have got to change, arty is overpowered and standing still is underpowered. Fireflys don't cut it against Pak38s and Shrecks wile British infantry gets wiped by KCH/Stormys/AssaultGrens and then the British guy goes home to his command truck and then forever more relys on bombing the frunck out of the map with his arty.

As a PE player, I like my Jagdpanther and Tellermines but it is ruined when either the British player artys my base every time I retreat or artys my Tellermines or something retarded like that. Hell, using detection squads is just not a viable tactic when it can be faster, safer and could possibly kill some enemys, just by calling in creepy barrage all the way to their base, then if your attack fails bomb the axis on their advance or make them go and rebuild their base.

[German Steel!]

What Ever said is simply true. I change the map to Pointe du Hoc or McGechaen's War when I'm up against the Brits (I mostly play 2v2), simply because they're overpowered on most others.

Basically this is what happens: They fortify a line at the VPs. There are a few places you can try to flank them on. Defensive vet helps me, but in the end I get suppressed by MGs. All the while trenches, bofors, mortars are pounding away at me. If you don't keep running, he's going to block your exit off with one kind of artillery and then use another kind of artillery on your actual forces. This makes it into a die-or-die situation, which is fine, but what do you actually die to?

Two to four fucking clicks.

[ViiKumi]

Okay... 1 thing to change...
The british trucks not having the resource bonuses
Reason: Fuel income 60 or greater is just lame, because the tanks come sooner than volksgrenadiers. LAME! Infact, I'd like CoH to have maximum fuel income of 50... or 45... or something...

[Ever]

If all tanks where more expensive and the King Tiger / Pershing where super expensive then I would agree to that. With the Firefly being 100Fuel it makes it difficult to balance that. OF has sooo messed up CoH it either needs a revamp or the Brits and not so much the PE need to be more like the Wher and Americans. I agree with the maximum fuel income at 45 or less.

Also.
4.
I would remove: The sniper upgrade from the first British unit.
Reasons: It may mean that this first unit can now upgrade to a Bren, it would mean that the first PG / Pio squad they see does not loose a man at the start of the game.
Feasibility: Easy as replacing the starting unit, however easy that is is beyond me.

[Latias418]

1.
I would replace: Decoy artillery with Typhoon strafing-runs.
Reasons: Currently the decoy artillery is not really effective as it can be dodged easily, if you are trying to save your troops from a King Tiger or a Puma the decoy arty simply means the Axis player will move forwards towards the troops and after that the troops are all alone. Also, why should the British have a less powerfull off map ability when the American airborne have three types of aircraft runs and yet they have RRs too.

...So many things wrong with this. First; Why would you make a 4cp 125muni Bombing AND strafing run? The artillery is meant to be the British equivalent to the Offmap Artillery the Americans get, not their planes -.- It trades costing an extra CP for 25 less munitions and the ability to use decoy arty.

1.
I would buff: The kettenkrad, it needs the ability to fight off enemy jeeps through a rear/front mounted anti tank cannon or heavy machine gun, giving it a small mortar wouldnt hurt either

Reasons: The kettenkrad is not very good against jeeps and they use that lame pathing exploit to kill them, i use this exploit myself and it works a charm.

Feasibility: Very feasible, just add a heavy machine gun to the front and a little mortar to the back

It's mean to be something that fastly caps something, not a fragile tank that's "balanced' by dying in one two hits. At it's cost, you could buy four to five of them easily and go rape stuff. With HMG42s, they'd easily suppress and kill infantry, and then you'd cap the whole map because they can't get out of their base.

3.
I would nerf: Rangers, they need to perform worse against other infantry, leave their anti tank capabilities as is but they need to be easily slaughtered by anti infantry infantry or maybe a vehicle if it is lucky.

Feasibility: Very feasible, just remove the tommies upgrade or nerf its damage.

I'm not against nerfing the Rangers, but you'd have to buff it's AT capabilities.

[Ever]

...So many things wrong with this. First; Why would you make a 4cp 125muni Bombing AND strafing run? The artillery is meant to be the British equivalent to the Offmap Artillery the Americans get, not their planes -.- It trades costing an extra CP for 25 less munitions and the ability to use decoy arty.

Make the Typhoon run more expensive then. If the British can't have it, why should the Americans?

It would be nice to counter something like that with 88s and Flakvierlings. Off map arty is too easy to dodge and has no counter, thus it can be used on bases without a worry which is not good gameplay wise.

[SgtWilson]

Thus thread started off quite coherent, then slipped into a kind of space-walking with no oxygen whilst sniffing glue and smoking a jamaican woodbine type of experience, i.e.

The kettenkrad, it needs the ability to fight off enemy jeeps through a rear/front mounted anti tank cannon or heavy machine gun, giving it a small mortar wouldnt hurt either


And then settled down to a normal ill-informed rant about the British:

Nerf British Artillery spamming


With a touch of hypocrisy thrown in:

I like my Jagdpanther and Tellermines but it is ruined when either the British player artys my base every time I retreat or artys my Tellermines

Like the "I win" button got taken away?

Oh well.

[UnholyX]

Nerf the Brits and Make it Harder for PE to tech up

[bwc153]

hmm, id nerf arty, buff FJs to 75% of their former status (not 100% because the Allies fanboys will complain) nerf arty severly, add smoke to the PE halftrack (come on they need it to nail the brit uber MGs), nerf suppression of brit MGs, make guy on ketten fire a luger, make snipers less powerful vs. PE infantry, make engineers harder to supress, many other changes you dont want to here me ramble on and on about .

[Guardsman Yoshi]

This is just... ridiculous. Some of these suggestions are just absolutely stupid.

The kettenkrad, it needs the ability to fight off enemy jeeps through a rear/front mounted anti tank cannon or heavy machine gun, giving it a small mortar wouldnt hurt either

Wow, so you want the Kettenkrad to only be able to harass the living hell out of their opponent but also be able to fend off its hard counter? Hell, my Snipers should carry a Bazooka/Panzerschreck because Bikes/Jeeps can hunt them down.

FSJ got an unnessecery nerf and now they are just not cost effective. They do not match up to any other elite infrantry.

Well, maybe it's just Rangers and Commandos that are overpowered? I'm certain the player who is using that blob of Fallscrimjagers with FG42s with a Marder or two isn't complaining that his blob will devour Riflemen, HMG, and basically anything the US player can throw at them aside from Rangers as being underpowered.

Also, unnecessary nerf? Since when was the ability to absolutely annihilate your opponent's infantry almost without giving them a chance to even escape when retreating considered balanced?

The hummel, it needs to be able to achieve maximum range without having to be sighted, the priest dosent need to be sited why does the hummel!

Reasons: Its only fair for the faction that has the poorest heavy artillery capabilities in teamplay, hummels wouldnt affect 1v1 balance too much as the game is lost/won by that point anyway. Stukkas in a gang of 3 are awesome with vet 2 and brittish priests dont need to be sighted for their range, the hummel needs this ability too.

Well jeez, I guess you want the Hummel to better than the Priest in every way. Hell, let's make everything the PE have better than anything the Allies can throw at them while still keeping a similar price.

The Hummel is a high damaging Howitzer piece. It deals more damage, but needs to be sited. That sounds like a good tradeoff, the game isn't suppose to have mirror image units and abilities.

Make the Typhoon run more expensive then. If the British can't have it, why should the Americans?

It would be nice to counter something like that with 88s and Flakvierlings. Off map arty is too easy to dodge and has no counter, thus it can be used on bases without a worry which is not good gameplay wise.

Maybe because the British aren't an American 2.0 faction? Maybe because the Americans have some their own unique stuff that other factions don't share? Maybe because you just want to make your favorite faction even better than it already is?

American and British can build airfield. The airfield can build P47 and Typhoon.
The airfield should act like the airfield in Comand&COnquer General..

Well, this is Company of Heroes. Also, where are you going to fit a friggin airfield in your freaking base? Hell, the plane itself is the size of a building.

Honestly people, some of these are just absurd. Please, for the love of balance, make reasonable posts. There's so many things wrong on just 2 pages of this thread.

[Ambient]

FIX/REMOVE THE BRITS!

[OutpostCommand]

FIX/REMOVE THE BRITS!

Plus one



one a more related note, I would get rid of RCA. Whose bloody idea at Relic was it to create a doctrine based around artillery ?
Artillery in general should be nerfed - it should be a special treat, not something to be spammed.

Additionally, I would get rid of bloody rediculous abilities like Flank Speed or Overdrive. Stupid abilities which seem like they were thought up during a coffee break in 5 minutes.

Also, where are you going to fit a friggin airfield in your freaking base? Hell, the plane itself is the size of a building.

lawl
The runway in itself would like half the length of the biggest 1v1 map, if not longer.

[IndigoSpyder]

If I could change something just for fun, I would add some features from Faces of War such as...

1. The infantry ability to pick and drop weapons, ammunition, helmets, grenades and other stuffs from other dead infantry.
2. Tanks to be reloaded, refueld and requires a squad (driver, gunner, loader, commander) to be fully utilized. This may be annoying for Katyushas, Walking Stukas and the likes of it but atleast no more bombardment spamming.
3. Revamp every units's poly counts. I observed that in FoW that the units were not as high poly as CoH's but they still look good especially with the infantry.
4. Small eye candy details for certain identification with infantry. When I equipped my Soviet rifleman with a panzerfaust, he had it strapped on his shoulder. With this, I was able to identify who had the weapon.
5. Infantry to cross/swin in water.
6. Infantry to ride on tanks!
6. ALL unit commands of FoW.

Basically, I want everything in CoH and FoW in one massive WW2 rts title.

[ofdarkss1]

1. British tracks shouldn’t have ability to construct in to buildings on territory’s witch are not connect to its start location (to avoid locking down best full/ammo territories in start)
2. because artillery changed game in to rush or die under artillery fire I could be interesting to increase artillery cool down or make each use cost 25-50 ammo (maybe effectiveness of artillery could be buff in cause of ammo cost)
3. I like rangers as elite infantry but I thing it would be best if each squad will be equip with bazooka or Thompson (for ammo of course) to become anti infantry or anti tank squad ( because of need to buy bazookas for ammo effectiveness of bazookas could be buff)
4. Americans shouldn’t receive same amount of resources as British from British secure points, it should be amount of resources equal to Americans secure point
5. I personally think that problem with Wermaht tanks and all wermaht units is abut veterans if they could get veterans like PE or USA it would be much easier to balance them
Now you cant make Wermaht units to good because US or British tanks will not be able to win if wermaht have Veterans 3 in stet they must be wick enough to allow US to win and get veteran’s….

What if wermacht had same veterans system like PE or USA and MG and armor skirts for tanks will came with veterans, in Kampfkraft Centre you could put unlocks and upgrades like panzerfaust , panzershrek, grenades, mp44, upgrade to build panthers etc….
After that you could make some German tanks and units little better (to aloud them to achieve some veteransy….)

[Soviet779]

@viikumi "That hasn't been in the game since 2.300.. IF you rant, please rant with class."

BZZT wrong answer. I used this exploit to kill a kettenkrad just yesterday, it was very easy to do. It was a brittish recon squad i used to confuse its pathing.

[draje175]

oddly enough, i could have sworn i had a gren squads pathing blocked by a bren car.... lol... but back to the op, i think they should remove PE and Brits from automatch until they can get everything fixed. nerf brit arty spam and emplacement spam(i hate trenches... lol) , nerf pe teching speed and ability to blob

[Heroin]

lol this thread is awesome sensless from the first post on^^ nerf that remove that make this and that xD

[classic77]

American and British can build airfield. The airfield can build P47 and Typhoon.
The airfield should act like the airfield in Comand&COnquer General..

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

SERIOUSLY?

NEVER, EVER, attempt to copy ideas from C&C into CoH. Thats like putting ketchup on filet mignon.

O and by the way, I think the Brits are 100% balanced in 1vs1, although the amount of arty is ridiculous in 2vs2.

[Border Patrol]

im pretty sure most people in this thread are joking

[stopgap]

i have sorted through this thread and with my awesome powers i say. I found one thing i like, the addition of a small munition cost to the british artillery to make it fire seems potentially balancable (make the first arty emplacement always fire free, but make every subsequint arty cost X munitions to fire. this would allow the players to get their arty, but slow the power of spam, mind u late game this may do nothing, but it might be representative of the real life munitions being fired in every barrage).

[IndigoSpyder]

I don't want buildable aircrafts and airfields if they will be scaled smaller and disproportioned between infantry, vehicles and structures like what C&C has a penchant for.

One of the many things I love in CoH is how everything is perfectly scaled, you won't see 10 feet tall infantry like what you see in C&C. So I don't want small planes and small airfields just to make it buildable, rather I would like to see a big map with a properly scaled, capturable airfield.

[Sepplainer]

Nerf brits...

[neverworther]

Put chucknorris on the rear seat of the Kettenrad, go ahead do it punk.

[kenty900]

1 Hour for the handbags to come out... got to be a record . Lets keep it simple the Brits don't need a nerf. Tbh none of the army's to me stand out as needing a nerf. For me most things need to be carefully buffed, mainly for me elite troops that just aren'y elite. KCH, commandos and storms - rangers are fine really.

SgtWilson

And then settled down to a normal ill-informed rant about the British:

Nerf British Artillery spamming


With a touch of hypocrisy thrown in:

I like my Jagdpanther and Tellermines but it is ruined when either the British player artys my base every time I retreat or artys my Tellermines

Like the "I win" button got taken away?

I laughed so hard i choked a little..... i couldn't possibly agree more. People seem to get upset that the brits bring in something different to the game and rather fight which they can quite easily just prefer to moan.

My god i hope allot of people are joking in this... mainly the ones saying nerf the brits or the ones wanting the uber PE .

[German Steel!]

Actually no. I couldn't care less whether their playstyle is new, it's boring to face. I don't play this game to wave my dick and tell people how ''Pr0z0RZ'' I am, but to have fun.

And from experience I can tell that the British are boring to face. So stop using your delusional ''it's just how you think the game should be played'' arguments, I want to have fun all right, not constrict everything in one playstyle. I hate mirror factions and such. But as I've already made pretty clear, I want to have fun.

Getting your infantry and vehicles while throwing grenades at emplacements completely mutilated by artillery is not fun. Desperately trying to run around, merely to dodge incoming artillery, is not fun. The thing is, artillery isn't fun. Emplacements are ok, I can handle that, but artillery needs reworking.

And they don't need nerfing, they need fixing. They're balanced in 1v1 but in 2v2 they aren't.

[kenty900]

Tuff shit springs to mind. They aint going to remodel a faction because you dont think they are fun to play against. Allot of complaining I've seen has been balance and that again has been blown out the water. Seen enough arguing for and against balance of the brits which says to me that really balance must be fine since people seem to win and loose. Problem is seems to be one extreme to the other with little middle ground (a whitewash win as them or a dominoed over loss)

If anything the brits suffer because of there style. Tbh im disputing your motives, i would adjust the brits but only to make them better to play as with much better and wider options. Not change it because it requires a different tact to fight against. But either way i would wager no major changes other than possible doctrine tree order swap abouts will ever happen.

[ViiKumi]

BZZT wrong answer. I used this exploit to kill a kettenkrad just yesterday, it was very easy to do. It was a brittish recon squad i used to confuse its pathing.

All I said, was that the Jeep-ketten bug isn't there anymore. And IIRC, a british recon squad doesn't mess the pathing like the jeep did. (although the Stuart Light Tank still does)

[Soviet779]

Do you even play this game viikumi because you are completely wrong... Didnt you read what i said? Ill repeat it ONCE more, i... used... a ...recon...squad...to...confuse...a...kettenkrads...pathing...yesterday (would have been about 2-3 days ago now). The bug IS there, and it dosent just apply to jeeps! Its simply that a jeep is ususally the first thing that comes accross the kettenkrad. The problem lies with the kettenkrads pathing code or collision evasion, its nothing to do with the unit you use to click in front of it constantly.

Actually go play the game once in a while and you may find i am right.

@Kenty, I agree, i think brits make the game more interesting, same with PE, some people are just old and bitter (or at least behave that way) and wont let go of 1.71 for some crazy reason.

[German Steel!]

I agree, the balance arguments are mostly just people that think they're cool or something for whining, or are doing some stupid popular fad. The only real thing is the resource sharing, that's it. Take the improved resource sharing away and you've fixed the Brits. Everything else can be counted by those that aren't too stubborn and unflexible to adjust their strategies and tactics, but they'll still be boring. I'm generally against tradition in all of its forms and hope religion will be gone in 100 years, so I'm not old and bitter.

I just want to have fun in an excellent game

[bottenbreker]

1. remake the british faction
2. balance out the PE teching system.

[CptWolverine]

2) Nerf Rangers and Commandos

reason: FSJ got an unnessecery nerf and now they are just not cost effective. They do not match up to any other elite infrantry.

fesibility: easy. Buff the guns they start with or decrease cost.

Whoever is that clueless as to nerf the only elite infantry the allies have is just ... well completely clueless.

The Falschirm (sp?) are incredibly powerful - still even after the patch. They tear apart vet 3 Airborn and American rifles like nobodies business ... retreat, and it's even worse unless you have something to retreat around. You need to outnumber them, plus have green cover and have them rush at you. Combined with all the other elite axis infantry with their machine guns - yeah I have an idea, nerf all of the Allied heavy infantry!

lol

[IndigoSpyder]

omg, here we go again with whining imba boyz in t3h hause.

[andreiss]

Calm down people. Leave everything alone. The only sensible thing that has been said here was the Hummel/Priest issue. Let them have the same damage they have now, but either make them both seeable or none. It makes absolutely no sense to keep priest advantage in this matter .

[Ever]

Can we get back to the point of what you would change if you had the chance. No need to attack each other about it.

[blackwhitehawk]

If I could change anything it would be

1. lower the range of marders/25 pounder.

[Bfoster80]

Put a tutorial on how to count, since most of you put more than ONE thing, even the person who started the post..

[Ap0k]

I thought about cleaning this thread up, but frankly, it would involve having to delete probably about half the posts in it.

Instead you guys got it locked.

Nice job killing a good discussion topic!