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DoW Improvement Project (community driven)

  1. #1
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    DoW Improvement Project (community driven)



    The project is a mod aimed at improving vanilla DoW/DC/SS. The aim is to create a major pack that drastically improves DoW without it being a mod. This way you as player can benefit from it on all games, and mods providing they use standard dow file.
    It must be easily installed and removed and work online. Several aspects are intended :

    There will be 2 versions : one that is just replacements to be online compatible and one more complete with model replacements that will be a real mod all players will need to play together.

    Browse this site to see screenshots and download files
    http://pogs.free.fr/DoW_Improvement_Project/


    I - Unit models and skins

    If authorized, we will get the best models available in the community/mods and adapt them to vanilla games. Focus is done on infantry units first then vehicles, then buildings.

    - Commander units :
    1024 x 1024
    added details
    reworked improved tc areas[
    Specular Lighting

    - Other units :
    512 x 512
    sharpened
    Specular Lighting
    added details
    reworked tc areas

    II - Icons

    128x128
    New icon frames
    Add icon type iconography as I did for WH-AS, Splinterfleet and AC Mod

    I'll work on the frame, the iconography, the effects and release the master psd. One for each race would be cool. I hope I'll get help on making the icons from it.

    III - FX
    If authorized, we could get FX from various mods and rework them.

    IV- Sounds
    If authorized, we could get sounds from various mods.


    V- UI

    I'd really like to implement Ombre's CODEX EVOLUTIONS system in a new taskbar free ui.

    VI- SHADOW MAPS

    Done by Elfurreto.

    PLEASE POST WHAT YOU WANT TO WORK ON so we don't make them twice. I'll update this post accordingly.

    DONE SO FAR :

    UNIT SKINS

    SPACE MARINES
    - SM Chaplain (PogS)
    - Force Commander (PogS)
    - SM Librarian (PogS)
    - Tactical, Assault SM, Sergeant (PogS)
    - SM Grey Knight
    - Terminator (Pogs)
    - Apothecary (PogS)
    - Scout (PogS)


    CHAOS

    - Chaos Sorcerer (PogS)
    - Chaos Lord (PogS)
    - Cultist non tc (PogS)
    - Chaos SM (PogS)
    - Raptor non tc (PogS)
    - Aspiring Champion/Possessed Marine non tc (PogS)
    - Obliterator (PogS/Ombre)

    ELDAR

    - Eldar Farseer non tc (PogS)
    - Eldar Harlequin non tc (PogS)

    ORK

    - Ork Warboss non tc (PogS)
    Last edited by PogS; 26th Jul 08 at 6:59 AM.

  2. #2
    it would be very possible, with the exception of the UI modifications maybe, i'm not sure if taskbar.lua & .screen files are checked by gamespy. but the others are easily possible, if you can find people to make the models. the only problem may be dow's graphical engine. I would be Interested in it (personally, i would love to see a ui such as the one you made for witch_hunters for every race. it is beautiful!), and I would offer my services as a file organiser/etc. unfortunately i have real artistic talent..
    I guess day 1 DLC was too casual for EA, so let's start doing 8-month-early DLC! - Shuma
    Eagerly awaiting DoW3 with mod tools. You hear me Relic?!


  3. #3
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    This would be a good idea.

    I would help but I have no artistic talent whatsoever - can just about cut and paste in photoshop but when it come to DoW textures I am lost, and I'm working on other projects currently.

    Sounds like a very good idea though.

    What's Ombre's Codex Evolutions thing - is that the extra leader/weapons upgrade tweaks that he has found - has it been confirmed as working and ready for everyone to start using?
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  4. #4
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    Cool
    Is it possible to keep Dow models and just remake their textures with a higher resolution keeping the same unwrapping and animations ? thus saving a lot of work...
    Is there already available to the community better models with higher tex res ?
    Last edited by PogS; 18th May 08 at 10:11 AM.

  5. #5
    Certifiably insane Kresjah's Avatar
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    I do believe it is possible PogS, but I won't give you a 100% guarantee on that.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member horusheretic's Avatar
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    textures and fx are ok, its when you start changing things with models and code in the game that gives sync errors etc
    Tutorials_And_Helpful_Sites_Here <-link
    Want a 3d model commissioned? I may do so. Pm me!
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  7. #7
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    so it's possible to keep the same models, anims and just take the current skins, upscale them to larger resolution and then rework them, save them and that's it ?

  8. #8
    Senior Member horusheretic's Avatar
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    im not completely sure on resizing skins but aslong as the wtp and rsh have the same names then it should be ok to avoid synch errors. i know you can change what models look like providing you dont change the OE code. i havent tried that out myself yet but theres a thread around showing how to do that.

    fx is usually ok providing names are the same else you get bad fx at best and some fx is referenced to the other races models so its a big impact sometimes.

  9. #9
    Certifiably insane Kresjah's Avatar
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    I believe that as long as you keep the same ratio, you can give it a texture with a higher resolution. So, if Relic's skin was 256x256 (1x1), you could safely replace it with a 512x512 skin (1x1), but not a 512x256 skin (2x1).

    Quote Originally Posted by horusheretic
    textures and fx are ok, its when you start changing things with models and code in the game that gives sync errors etc
    You can safely replace models too, unless they've changed something in the code recently. Afaik, the only things you can't replace is LUA/SCAR code and the maps themselves. I'm not sure if it will create a sync error or not if you have a modified taskbar.lua/gamescreen.screen, so you'd have to test that.

  10. General Discussions Senior Member Modding Senior Member Dawn of War Senior Member  #10
    Why shout... Octopus Rex's Avatar
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    Light modification of the gamescreen is fine. We modified it in dowpro. Taskbar I would say is a no-no, mainly because the reason you edit it is to change the game, the graphical changes are to accomodate those new chagnes. Certainly Codex Evolutions will not work on-line (against players with out) because it requires re-coding of the actual units involved for it to take effect.
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  11. #11
    Member Achronos-117's Avatar
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    I'd have to say the effects look sweet enough, we should try to up the res for the space marine faces, they look like crap compared to everything else.

  12. #12
    http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...44#post3010244


    Faire les choses dans l'ordre est important POGS si je développe pas plus le sujet c'est pour évité des travaux inutiles. Et surtout non compatible .
    Si je t'ai posé la question au sujet des textures c'est que j'ai bien une idée qui me trotte Dans la tète Depuis que j'ai réussi une expérience. Avant de Lâché L'infos et il faut que je me garantisse que les Bases de mon projets tienne la route.

    Si j'ai mal formulé ma requête il faut m'indique mon erreur . J'ai écrit Évolutions avec un "S" cela implique que ce n'est qu'un début.
    Mais pour justifier mes futurs travaux ils faut que je sache ou je vais avec ce qui a déjà était fait.


    Ceci vaut aussi pour vous messieurs Aidé moi a remplir le "cahiers de charge" .
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Doing things in orde is important POGS. I develop if not more, it estpour avoid non-compatibilitées work done.
    If I brought you asked about textures. It is because I have an idea that keeps me awake. Since I passed a test. Before m'investir in this project. I need my assurance that the basis of my projects tennir the road.

    If I have done wrong my written request. Tell me what is my mistake. Evolutions has multiple projects. Who aims to bridge the absence of elements of the game. it means that this is just the beginning.
    But to justify my future work. they need that I know that I'm fine with what has already been done.


    This also applies to you colleagues. Help to fill out the "specifications".

  13. #13
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    Ombre, what i talk about here is would be another project. the ui modifications using codex evolutions would ba on top of it. My main concern is to improve the look of models.

    I just tried to make a wtp using 1024x1024 texes and it works in game. I don't think the gain worth it. i'm gonna work more on the skin make it look better.

  14. #14
    Senior Member horusheretic's Avatar
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    well increasing the skin texture size itself wont improve the texture but allow more detail to be put in. if you really are going to rework all the textures then youll have a lot of work to do. i can help with fx if you want me to. youve got my msn address if you want to discuss more there

  15. #15
    Resident AI guy thudmeizer's Avatar
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    Hmmm.. isn't this, PogS, an incredible of work to update all models (units and buildings) for all 9 factions? Is this in response to DoW2 having much higher polys and state-of-the-art texture maps so as to keep DoW1 relevant? Are you looking to make all 9 vanilla factions similar to KRMZ/Fred's utterly stellar WH_AS mod? Isn't that like requiring immense resource to accomplish?

    The only faction I would consider needing attention 10,000 % is the Soulstorm's Sisters of Battle because they look like they were left for dead after IL left. Compare even the Dark Eldar work to Sisters and clearly Sisters look drab, yucky, and uninspiring. Honestly, look close up to a Sister's building and, well, it looks like vomit. Thats ONE faction that needs a complete overhaul.

  16. #16
    Certifiably insane Kresjah's Avatar
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    I would like to burst in here just to encourage you PogS to do this. I'll guarantee you that I would use it and support it.

    Yes, doing it for all 9 races is a big job, as big a job as any other mod. The difference though is there here you have the textures made already. Many of them can get increase details just by increasing resolution and running a few filters on them, only touching up those few areas which don't do well on the upsizing. Other mods like the WH_AS had to do it all from scratch.

    Also, I'd be happy to see any other faction just as much as the Sisters gone high resolution. I'd say you do the one you prefer to do, regardless of what needs to be touched up. If you're going to do all of them anyways, it doesn't matter which one you go with first.

    Good luck, and I'll trod in every now and then to try and share whatever knowledge I can.

  17. #17
    Member Julian's Avatar
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    With increased texture size, you can try making normal maps of the texture, and then rendering a complete map in max with a normal map applied (It'll make the overall effect more "3D". I've got an example somewhere...

    Ah yes, here it is:

    The far left is the default, the far right is with a bump map, whilst the middle is the newly rendered texture of the default with a bump map. The difference is relatively minor, but a good start for further improvement.

  18. #18
    Senior Member horusheretic's Avatar
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    thud, the sisters textures are mostly better than the spacemarines. the reason they are bad is because the artists over didi it on the dirt layers of each texture. thats why they look bad and chalky. it isnt that much of an effort to correct the dirt layers. one thing that is a definate is to correct a texture problem with the golden saint.

    this is what i mean:

    http://forums.relicnews.com/showpost...&postcount=741

    in the pictures you can tell that it needs a remap

  19. #19
    Member elfurreto's Avatar
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    @Julian

    This have been made LOOOONG ago buddy, and trust me on this one... such tiny detail won't be noticeable ingame...
    Of course if you use extra-texture stuff... now you've got something let me show you :

    Here we have an Overused bumpmap from an asphalt picture in JPEG but....

    Speak for itself i thing....

    The thing with normal map is that it's something linked to lighting ingame. Bump, scratch and bullet it are much more "Dow" compatible. as said, you just render a Complete-Map and repack WTP.

    Source : SpaceMarine Unit
    BumpMap: Asphalt Crack right in front on my house....
    Meaning : So easy to do, and "not so long" (few hours) for ONE race.

  20. #20
    Resident AI guy thudmeizer's Avatar
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    If anything can be done to drastically improve the textures of all races including their buildings and do it quickly (1-3month project) then wow.. massive eye-candy and would bridge the gap with DoW2 except the problem is how to compete with the next-gen engine which supports bumps and normal maps which DoW does not?

  21. #21
    Member Radulykan's Avatar
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    I too would love this Pogs,You have my support Brother,I have been tinkering around with the Space Marines using 1024 by 1024 in Cs3 and it works great,A heck of a lot easier to work on those tiny areas like the bolter,Later guys and have a good one.
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  22. #22
    Member Julian's Avatar
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    @elfurreto: Yeah man, I know it was covered ages ago, i'm just pointing out an easy potential for minor improvement.

  23. #23
    Certifiably insane Kresjah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thudmeizer
    how to compete with the next-gen engine which supports bumps and normal maps which DoW does not?
    I can't see anyone having mentioned that the intent of this mod is to outdo next-gen engines.

  24. #24
    Resident AI guy thudmeizer's Avatar
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    Not "outdo" but etch closer perhaps to create visuals in DoW that were, back in the early days, considered near impossible or impactical. I would love to see even minor improvements that make running the game with the teamcolour option + 4xAA/AF even better (although the game still looks absolutely gorgeous considering the gameplay).

  25. #25
    Certifiably insane Kresjah's Avatar
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    That might be fine and dandy and all, I won't say anything against that. I wouldn't mind it being that way either... although this seems to have nothing to do with the scope of this mod.

    If I have understood correctly, the concept of this mod is simple...

    * Improve unit graphics by increasing resolution of textures and retouching it where needed.
    * Create icons with double of their current size.
    * Embed Ombré's Evolutions taskbar into the mod, possibly in a modifier version.

    This is not an engine hack or anything like that.

  26. #26
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    I'd be very keen in providing a platform which supports improved models/textures/fx's - DoWpro can support any and all graphical enhancements without any compatibility issues.

    DoW will never look as good as DoW2 - but there's no reason why it cannot look better. I'm keen in supporting and showcasing ppl's work if they're interested in sharing.


    To Join the DoWpro Team - PM me!

  27. #27
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    If we gon on on this project, i'll need as much help as i can casue I never worked on Dow textures up to now. Yesterday i unpack a wtp and took mdcertainty's space marine skin, upscaled it to 1024x1024 and tried to add more details but up to now it does not look much better. I would need more understanding of how textures are made in Dow.
    are all the "layers" needed : i mean : badge, dirt, eyes,.. ? I guess this is for the army painter but it mulitpliers the size of the texes as all maps must be of the same size. This is a pity. If only the main tex, could be 1024x1024, that would be a lot better.
    my wtp ends being 10Mb. I don't know if Dow can handle so many texes if we go all 9 races.

  28. #28
    If all 9 races will have 1024 size textures you will need a very good computer to run dow. But then again, if you don't have a very good computer you can't run dow in full details with aa and fullres anyway.
    The engine can handle 1024 textures on all units u just need a powerful machine. On a very high end computer i played dow with the WH mod - skirmish, insane computer, all 8 races were sisters of battle (not SS ones, but the WH sisters) - and the game was smooth and fine. And the WH mod has a lot of eye candy stuff beside textures... So this texture replacement for all 9 races can be done and it will work perfect.
    I know how to work with Photoshop pretty well, i'm workin as an 2d artist so i can help you with some of the textures. (non chaos, as i hate working on those guys). I think i might start with remaking the orks textures on 1024*1024 size right now. I'll only be working on the main texture, not dirt, primary etc layers.
    Later people!
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  29. #29
    Sujet de KRMZ en francais DSL

    Details TECHNIQUES




    Ceci peut aidé ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    topic KRMZ in French DSL(édit: DéSoLé = SOrry )
    Last edited by ombrephenix; 18th May 08 at 11:15 PM.

  30. #30
    Senior Member horusheretic's Avatar
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    all layers are needed. if the layer doesnt have anything on it then it can be removed to save space. ibboards texture tool will do that anyway.

  31. #31
    If this were to be done you should get the witch hunters mod modeler as his models were absolutely amazing.

  32. #32
    "Perfect Every Time" Uncle Benny's Avatar
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    The main one I've personally tried to tackle is the Eldar Farseer. Wow, her wargear looks like complete and utter shite once you add on the rune wargear (on her apron/tabard/whatever, I'm tired. ). It looks like they tried to cram waaay too much on her texture, which was originally less detailed. Now, since DC, those runes look horribly pixellated, and really need updating.
    As I said, I've been trying, but I'm a bit short on free time lately.
    Once I get the DE mod's WTPs sorted out, I'd be glad to help, if possible.

  33. #33
    Member mdcertainty's Avatar
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    An good Idea PogS... and a massive workload. Personally my PC can´t handle so much HIRES, I need a better one soon... I wish I could write "I´ll help you" but I have other priorities. Of course I wish good luck and will watching this thread .

  34. #34
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    Too bad I don't have half the talent of Fried. Anyway I don't intend to make models, i have no skills for it. I was just thinking keeping actual models, get 1024x1024 texes and specular mapping. Unfortunately i dunno ow it works.

    I tested it and it does not worth it, I think. The difference is minor and I can't make it look way better without any new model and unwrapping. So I'd better give up. It would not worth the time needed. The army painter prevent from having a nice shinning effect. It looks white instead of shinny.

  35. #35
    Member Swanky's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it be easy to use the Codex models for a visual overhaul? Large textures nice and cool, but in my opinion not using it's full potential all by themselves. However, using these models would be non-working online me thinkz.

  36. #36
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    yeah probably. Can someone try and confirm ?

  37. #37
    Senior Member horusheretic's Avatar
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    alot of the ctc models will clash for online play if its normal dc/ss.

  38. #38
    So long as there are no code changes, online should work. although, if you want to use the c2c models, you will need to repack them so they don't xref anything from the original models that we're replacing. EDIT: and so that they have the correct file names.
    Last edited by Promythyus; 19th May 08 at 4:26 AM.

  39. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #39
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
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    The problem with the C2C models is that often there are weapons upgrades and extra addons that are added into the code, which breaks online play. To field the C2C models you'd have to disable all the new weapons the C2C team added in.
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  40. #40
    so long as they aren't called for in the code, i'm pretty sure they just remain dormant. I know this is true for some of the space marine models, as i'm already using the tactical marines & terminators online, and it works perfectly.

  41. #41
    All I have to say to the people in here Q_Qing about the textures etc..
    lolwut?
    (Done several months ago, with a special filter, and it's still a 512*2 map , if PogS wants to know how it's done: PM is that way <------)





    And as the last, a picture of a original unedited texture .

  42. #42
    Resident AI guy thudmeizer's Avatar
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    Wow that looks damn good.. how long would it take to apply that to all units and buildings to all factions?

  43. #43
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    Yeah it's clearly better I hope it will work on all models and all races.

  44. #44
    Member Jes's Avatar
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    Sharpen edges?

  45. #45
    Resident AI guy thudmeizer's Avatar
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    That FW looks.. crisper.. clean.. a lot less drab.. Wow.. it would be simply awesome to convert all 9 factions over to something that looks visually superior.

  46. #46
    Senior Member horusheretic's Avatar
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    if PogS wants to know how it's done: PM is that way
    im sure there are other that would liken to know...
    me for one

  47. #47
    me also, even if i can't do it cause the lack of skillz

  48. #48
    Member elfurreto's Avatar
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    Hey buddy. t'es surement de France ?? Moi j'suis Québecois ( a l'est du Canada ) si t'as des troubles avec les traductions, ou encore si tu cherche quelqu'un qui parle Français, t'as juste a me PM ( private message ) et j'vais te donné mon adresse MsN---------------------------------



    Ok back to you guys....
    Having the DoW engine to have better code... well i've check Internet deepest sh*t hole and i've come across this:
    A 3D Role-Playing Game Engine based on "Lua" code
    Oddly... it seem as the *.cpp / *.c / *.h have the exact same name as those from ScarDoc... The Engine is dated from 2003 (DoW in 2004) and even more funny... when tested the thing, it looked & seem a bit like Dow possibilities
    eg: 3D cam / zooming / the mapmaker is SOOOO like W40kme !! check it for yourself.

    I'm note even close to knowing what i'm talking about right now, so i'll let C / C++ coder check it out. I would as my own Coder but his currently on vacation and his more a .NET guy so.

    Post some Feedback about it please... i'm really curious about it.

    Note: don't tell me i'm an odd-ball i already know it

  49. #49
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    I've worked a bit on the SM reskin. I took MDCertainty reskin in 512, upscaled it to 1024 and then reworked it. Here are the results :



    I dunno why but when i rescaled it in 512² the wtp is not taken into account in DoW. It ignores it and use the standard SM. Do you have any clue why ?
    Last edited by PogS; 20th May 08 at 6:32 AM.

  50. #50
    Senior Member horusheretic's Avatar
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    too bad the piccies arent showing up for me

    nvm

    maybe the rsh has to be the same size as the wtp. dunno.

    by the way whats is going on with the one on the far right?

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