submarine titans wasn't the greatest of games, but i always like the sub designs they had in themOriginally posted by Folcan
Or look at Submarine Titans that was a underwater game
|
|
|
submarine titans wasn't the greatest of games, but i always like the sub designs they had in themOriginally posted by Folcan
Or look at Submarine Titans that was a underwater game
I haven't used EMPs in HW2 yet, but that's probably what I imagined. Plus adding a little damage, to reflect the effect high voltage has on the enemy ships' crew and fuel/ammo (secondary explosions would be cool, but I don't know if that can be modded in).Originally posted by thesamonthemoon
Shocker: Like an EMP with a moderately large radius (maybe defense field sized or so)?
edit:
The human sub designs were good, but the alien things IMHO were crap.Originally posted by Doobz
submarine titans wasn't the greatest of games, but i always like the sub designs they had in them
Last edited by thrawn; 25th Oct 03 at 2:46 PM.
why dont you try to not make super-cav replace hyperspacing, but rather have it as an ability of certain craft which changes variables, makes the bubble streams and stuff around the craft MUCH bigger, and off it goes, runs out of energy for it after a decent time, and resumes using normal engines..
Yep we decided on thiswhy dont you try to not make super-cav replace hyperspacing
Quote Me:
Also, note that supercav doesn't really take all that much energy once it gets started. After all, we do have supercav today, and from what I assume, this mod is set in the (possibly not so distant) future.supercavitation should be the main drive..... hyperspace is hardcoded
are these gonna all be of human design, with our own little flare ofcourse, or of alien design, specifically the higarans etc...
thesamonthemoon - it would seem to me that if pressure is not included as a variable its either in there (i dont know which number it is) as a number, and so can be varied, or else it has been cancelled out at some stage and has no effect on the speed of sound... however that wouldnt make sense as sound travels faster in denser materials and since water will be denser at greater pressures the speed should infact be faster the deeper you go... although sound travels slower as you get colder.. i guess its a matter of which has more effect temp or pressure.. i for one think pressure does but thats just a guess.
:ele:
#107
Just a couple of suggestions (and by the way, I really like this underwater idea)
- why not use hyperspace? In Aquanox you also had some sort of jump engine, why wouldn't hyperspace work underwater?
- as for supercavitation, I think it would be hard to code in the "bubble" the ship travels in, especially for large ships. Maybe if we just explain the fact that fighters can go so fast with supercavitation, and that's it? Because it would be unrealistic if the big ships can't change their direction when supercavitating, this has actually been done in a lab, and this race appears to be more advanced then we are
-why abandon beam weaponry? The water could make for greatly reduced ranges, which would actually add realism to the game, as there really is no reason for a laser beam to have a range of only 500 meters or something in space.
-the resources are a bit of a problem. I couldn't really think of a good solution, except maybe this: In HW2 you have asteroids than can be "harvested", but they don't disappear. So maybe you could use some sort of underwater refinery instead of asteroids, that floats at a certain depth and just sieve stuff out of the water (minerals perhaps?), and your harvesters get their resources from those refineries.
Or maybe you could use dust clouds as resources, and they could be some sort of stuff, which has a density that enables it to float at these depths.
-why are we worried about the speed of sound again? I mean there's sounds in HW2 and you can hear them through the vacuum... this mod would actually be pretty realistic!
-a couple of problems that I see: Debris from a destroyed ship should sink down (or up), but most likely wouldn't float at the same level. A possible solution: look at the missiles in the last HW2 mission, once they pass this dust cloud, they dive towards hiigara. If we could figure out how that is done, maybe it would help us.
Lighting... the light should come from above, and it would be kinda hard to simulate the "light in water" effect throughout the game. I thought the lighting in Aquanox looked fantastic, but that is probably a little hard to implement here
On a final note, the way ships appear and disappear from sight looks pretty much exactly like it would look underwater.
[edit]
supercavitating bullets are actually being researched today, they are aiming at e.g. firing at subs with a cannon from a helicopter using precisely this technology.
Oh and something travelling at 500 meters/sec is not going supersonic underwater, since sounds travels a lot faster, as someone already mentioned.
Last edited by Moe; 26th Oct 03 at 4:36 AM.
For your resouce problem
1. Sea sand has metals in it the most common being titanium. Perhaps have underwater fissures or volcanos that stir up clouds of sand for mining
2. Water also has metals in it. Build a res collector that mines the water itself.
EG: When set to patrol you recive resource injections with a multipyer effect for the more collectors built.
Just a idea tell us what you think
Sweet!!!!!!! I would love to see this finished. Catastrophe90 and I actually started working on an underwater mod for HW1. We had to stop though becuase of lack of talent and lack of time. I really hope that you guys finish this!
Here is a screenie from the mod:
Last edited by EmteeMoe; 26th Oct 03 at 6:16 AM.
I was working on a nifty ultra-sonic shock wave beam to replace the ion cannon. I don't know if that sort of thing is scientificaly correct, but it fit with the underwater theme. No reason that you can't have lasers though.why abandon beam weaponry? The water could make for greatly reduced ranges, which would actually add realism to the game, as there really is no reason for a laser beam to have a range of only 500 meters or something in space.
i would have assumed it would be only fighters that would supercav as there normal motion anyway, cruisers would have to walk, as it were.
why not abandon hyperspacing altogether?
Ship Idea, dont know if some of this is possible but
Name: Advanced Escort
Size: Frigate
Speed: Slightly slower than a corv
Manuverability: Medium
Armor: About HW2 frig level
Weapons: (2)Supercav Autogun (Anti Fighter/Munitions, High RoF, Low Acc, Low dam, gimballed)
(1) Anti-Munition EMP (Fires a large area EMP shot. The EMP strength is very weak, so many would be needed to even disable fighters. It would knock out munitions, allowing them to be easily shot down, Low RoF, Med acc, low EMP, no damage)
Can't Attack: None, though not effective against Frigates or larger
Ship description: Advanced escorts are seen alongside nearly every large vessel in the fleet. Their advanced anti-munition system greatly increases nearby ships survival. In places where these cannot be deployed, Escorts (same, minus EMP, a bit more armor) are used instead.
Possible problems: Enough of these used together could create practical invulnerability to missiles/torps. Also, too many of these ships could EMP mass fighter swarms
Possible solution: Make the EMP an Integral subsystem with low health
#113
I'm not sure whether abandoning hyper is a good idea, it is an integral part of most tactics.
Oh, and we should open an IRC channel for this. Any suggestions where?
Last edited by Moe; 26th Oct 03 at 8:22 AM.
So where's the problem? It is the intention of TCs to change gameplay, including tactics.Originally posted by Moe
I'm not sure whether abandoning hyper is a good idea, it is an integral part of most tactics.
#115
Hm, ok, I guess you have a point there.
Talking about pressure has reminded me about sonar. The oceans have thermal layers that have different densities. Sound waves do not pass through these layers. Exploiting these layers was an important part of sub warfare.
Something else has to be used to detect ships outside your layer, like a magnetic detector. But what if subs were made of composites?
As for resourcing, mines would have to sit on the sea floor, extracting minerals from the seabed or volcanic vents or pumping oil. Minerals dissolved in the ocean are too diffuse to economically extract.
#117
Those thermal layers are a very important part of sub warfare indeed. The trick is that sound can "bounce off" those layers, rendering a sub on the other side of the layer invisible to you. However, MAD (magnetic anomaly detection) doesn't have a really great range. Also, remember, we are talking about passive sensors here, once you go active and start radiating massive quantities of sound, you will most likely detect the other sub, layer or not.
Leto- True but the exact speed of sound doesn't really matter, because remember, even if a ship (Super-carrier) is only going 1/2 the speed of sound, it will still have a greatly compressed sound wave, and thus still be easier to detect. In fact, it would be easier to detect than something going faster than sound, because if somethings going faster than sound, it arrives at it's destination before it's sound does (Note: I'm not actualy suggesting this, its just a technical thing).
Moe- Hypersace just isn't realistic in the near futrue (Unless we find a hyperspace core burried somewhere in the sahara), and changing gameplay is the whole point (As you can tell, I agree that there should be no hyperspace. Not that I'm suggesting that we leave supercaps with no way of getting into battle; see my suggestion for a super-carrier on the previous page). As for the graphic of supercav, Im certain it's possible. In fact, once I accidentaly enveloped a missile in a "bubble" of fire, and the procedure is much the same for ships, sure we'll have to make a new .lua texture (which is impossible until the tools come out) but well probably be making plenty of these anyway. As for debris, I'm hoping we can make bubbles rise from blown up ships, and the mangled hulls sink into the depths, if at all possible.
Originaly Posted By Moe
-why are we worried about the speed of sound again? I mean there's sounds in HW2 and you can hear them through the vacuum... this mod would actually be pretty realistic!
In my opinion, beam weapons can stay- but lasers must go. Lasers are inefective in water... but who's to say that in the not so distant future, some beam weapon is created that is effective underwater?
This is why I think that MHD is a mostly fictional tech. What would the magnets push backward? Both water an salt (NaCl) have extremely low equilibrium constants and are what comprise most of water. However, I could be wrong.Originaly Posted By Jimmy C
Minerals dissolved in the ocean are too diffuse to economically extract.
I agree that harvesters should gather rescources from the ocean floor.
thesamonthemoon
Last edited by thesamonthemoon; 26th Oct 03 at 11:55 AM.
#119
I just browsed through this thread again and found that the models posted were very different. This led me to the following idea:
If there is going to be more than one race, why not make one that has fish-like ships? The manta and the gold fish would fit with that, wile the corv kinda looks more "human" in design.
Last edited by Moe; 26th Oct 03 at 1:40 PM.
Perhaps to simulate these thermal layers, we can use thin planes of dust clouds, or perhaps invisible dust clouds.
As for active sonar... we might as well formalize it:
Ability : Active Sonar - Significantly increases sensor range and power, but allows enemies to detect a ship using it from much longer distances
Moe, you have indeed opened a can of worms there with the race problem... But it needs to be addressed eventually, so it might as well be now. The following questions need to be answered:
Race number : How many races? I assume it's two.
Race ship style: Mechanical, standard, organic etc.? NO FISH: Even if we decide to have one of the races use an organic style of ship. Here are some examples of what I mean from ST: Mechanical- Borg, Standard- Federation, Organic- Species 8472.
Race Combat style: What are the perfered weapons and tactics for the race? For example the Vaygr have missiles, while the Hiigarans have Ion Beams. More distinctions can be made here than just weapons though... For example take a hpothetical underwater conflict between the U.S. and Russia. The U.S. would rely on stealth, while the Russians would depend (in part) on their Shkval, supercavitating torpedo.
Race Tech Level: What level of tech do the races have? I think both races should have the same approximate tech level, but focused in different areas. See the above example. The U.S.has it's tech in stealth, while Russia has it's tech in weapons.
Ok, thats all I can think of for now. Sp3ctre, I'm leaving it to you to answer these race questions. I'd also like it if you could confirm the following things that have been going around the forum for awhile:
1. There will be no hyperspacing.
2. The super-carrier is confirmed. It will be the only ship that is easy to detect when supercavitating.
3. Rescources will be gathered from the ocean floor
In response to Magus and thrawn, both of whom posted new ship ideas involving EMP-
These are good ideas. I recomend (to Sp3ctre) that each race gets one of these (Note: Magus: It might prove impossible to make EMP that stops weapons, but I can try).This means that (if there are two races) there can be no more EMP ships (Unless Magus's proves imposible to make, or if Sp3ctre thinks otherwise. Sp3ctre?).
Yes, I confirmed a race with human designs, and another with "fish" ships. But keep in mind that I EXCLUDE any organic-like ship.Originally posted by Moe
I just browsed through this thread again and found that the models posted were very different. This led me to the following idea:
If there is going to be more than one race, why not make one that has fish-like ships? The manta and the gold fish would fit with that, wile the corv kinda looks more "human" in design.
About the IRC channel: ok, I don't use very often irc, so anyone could open a "#udw-mod" channel somewhere so we can discuss easily about the game dinamycs
EDIT: tsotm answers
1. TWO RACES. The work behind them will be alot.
2. Half answered above. ABSOLUTELY NO FISH: we can't blast a destroyer with some trouts or build a cruiser capturing a bunch of wales
3. Combat styles: as the hw2 races, all will use missiles and torpedos, but one race will be focused on torpedoes, another on kinetic or energy weapons
4.The mod isn't located in the south pacific in 1980, we will be on a 98% oceanic planet somewere, hundred of kilometers under the sea. Future or past, futuristic weapons and tech will be used.
----
three comments confirmed
Last edited by Sp3ctre; 26th Oct 03 at 12:42 PM.
What IRC server should we use?
-- BTW, thanks for the clarification on those race and Misc. questions Sp3ctre
Last edited by thesamonthemoon; 26th Oct 03 at 1:13 PM.
#123
This is just a suggestion:
Tech level: How about they don't have the same tech lvl? Kinda like in StarCraft? That would mean totally different strategies for the two races (I think 2 is ok, 3 would mean even more work). On one hand you would have the hi-tech race, using powerful, but expensive, ships, on the other hand the lower tech race, whose ships will never win in a one-on-one conflict, but who can build faster or cheaper, and therefore will have more ships. Quality vs. quantity...
Thats what I really liked about SC, you could play the protoss, whose units did lots of damage and had extra protection through shields, but it also cost more time and resources to build them.
#124
Please, don'T use the Austnet-Servers, as they ban a lot of ISPs via g-line ban. Maybe on Quakenet?
I said any server, take the best and post it here :3d:Originally posted by Moe
Please, don'T use the Austnet-Servers, as they ban a lot of ISPs via g-line ban. Maybe on Quakenet?
I opened #udw-mod on Quakenet. Now I just need some people to join (in other words: "Get going! Fire up your IRC and join!").
#127
Just to sum up what we decided on in IRC (btw, feel free to join the chat, the more the merrier!)
-There will be two races
-One will have human ships (and will for now be called humans), the other one has fish-like ships (called the fishies)
-The fishies live on the water planet and are highly adapted and more high-tech than the humans
-Humans rely on slow, heavy ships, the fishies have smaller, faster, agile craft
-Humans use torpedoes as main weapons, along with projectile weapons (e.g. machine guns on the fighters)
-Fishies have more exotic weapons, beams and something like the mover weapons, plus maybe more.
-Human fighters suck and get owned by fishies, however you need a lot of fishy fighters to kill the large human ships.
-In general, human ships cost more, and are slower, but more powerful in one-on-one situations. The fishy ships are cheaper and less heavily armed, they also don'T do as much dmg but fire faster and are used in large groups
-We will try to implement the ocean floor, if that proves to be too difficult we will do without it, in which case resources will consist of clouds of some exotic metal that floats at these depths.
-the humans will probably have the supercarrier, the fishies don't really need it because their ships are faster. We haven't fully discussed that one yet.
Thats about it, feel free to join the channel and add to our discussions, new ideas and insights are always welcome.
Note: Humans and fishies are temporary names. Now that we have refined the ideas of the differances between the races, please think about what race your ship goes with before posting your ideas.
--- We (the underwater mod team) should choose a (GMT) time to meet on IRC to keep discussing the mod.
Last edited by thesamonthemoon; 26th Oct 03 at 11:19 PM.
VOTE 1: no fish/organics
???VOTE 1: no fish/organics?
No fish. Maybe an organic style... but no fish. We call them fishies, but that desn't mean their ships look like fish. After all, do human ships look like people? . Maybe they (the fishies) don't even look like fish- it's just what we call them.
Last edited by thesamonthemoon; 26th Oct 03 at 11:26 PM.
Just thought of another alternative to ocean floor mining, rather than dust clouds of minerals.
I just ran HW2 to test the new UDW mod weapon, and the little relic intro movie came on, which sparked the idea. Idea: raher than minable dust clouds, we have mystrious, ancient underwater mines (not as in land mines). This would also be easier to implement than a dust cloud.
Last edited by thesamonthemoon; 26th Oct 03 at 11:25 PM.
very interesting idea thesamonthemoon.. very interesting indeed...
i was just saying that i hate machines that look like fish/animals, and although a slightly organic appearence is acceptable, im not in favor of anything to natural looking..
re resourcing: i still think that geothermal vents or other kinds of geological activity are good resourceing methods.. suits me better than 'mysterious' mines.
#134
Problem with vents is that you need a floor. We will try to implement the ground, but are looking for a backup in case that proves to be impossible.
As for the fishies' ships: Check out the Manta Ray and Goldfish type ship designs in this thread. What do you think about them?
I like the Manta, but I think it looks more like a human design. The goldfish, eh, I don't know. Since it seems to be build with design in mind, not military performance, it would make a good civilian ship (which leads me to an idea: can we make multiplayer-maps with neutral units in them, for example freighters driving around and just waiting to be captured for RUs?).
Very interestng idea!!Originally posted by thesamonthemoon
Just thought of another alternative to ocean floor mining, rather than dust clouds of minerals.
I just ran HW2 to test the new UDW mod weapon, and the little relic intro movie came on, which sparked the idea. Idea: raher than minable dust clouds, we have mystrious, ancient underwater mines (not as in land mines). This would also be easier to implement than a dust cloud.
1) Avoids the hard "ground" mining system
2) It fits with the HW2 sotry, full of "ancient" things
3) these mines an the story can explain the question: why we have to fight at these huge depths, since we aren't near to an ocean floor?
Hmm, have you ever seen the Star Trek Voyager episode where they reach a planet which ONLY consists of water and is hold together by an ancient gravity generator in it's centre?Originally posted by Sp3ctre
3) these mines an the story can explain the question: why we have to fight at these huge depths, since we aren't near to an ocean floor?
Hmm... :sneaky: i hate star trek...Originally posted by thrawn
Hmm, have you ever seen the Star Trek Voyager episode where they reach a planet which ONLY consists of water and is hold together by an ancient gravity generator in it's centre?
Another Organic :P
Hope you like
Last image post btw
Shark Frig ?
Hehehehe
Last edited by WorthyRival; 27th Oct 03 at 7:45 AM.
Shark: using the shark shape is sure, but:
1) It seems more A SHARK than a shark-looking ship
2) I'ts better keeping the shark for a battlecruiser or similar
3) Try positioning weapons or engines in your models
---------
I wrote some quick (very quick) pages where all progresses will be added
>> UNDERWATER MOD PAGES
Ok, I linked http://www.underwater-mod.net.ms to the new mod pages.
By organic, I mean a more curving sort of style, not that the ship should look like a fish. See species 8472 bioships. Even if your not a trek fan, you can find an image pretty easily by doing a google image search. Or just take a look at this site.
I'm not sure how easy this will be to implement. It would be easier to have the ship leak air and sink to the bottom after it is destroyed.[I]Quote the UDW mod site[I/]
7) Some capital ships can have an "air" subsystem. Damaging it, the ship will sink down and fall out of the map
Also, it seems unfair that a ship can be essentialy put out of the battle by having just one subsystem destroyed.
Last edited by thesamonthemoon; 27th Oct 03 at 9:04 AM.
It should sink pretty slow (only the pressure tanks destroyed, so there is still some air in the ship itself) and the subsystem should be made repairable by repair-ships (or whatever gets the repairing ability), although I'm not sure if that can be done.Originally posted by thesamonthemoon
Also, it seems unfair that a ship can be essentialy put out of the battle by having just one subsystem destroyed.
We can avoid this making it an integrated subsystem like the engines, fast auto-repairing (if there aren't other repairs in the same time). In this case it will only make the ship leaving the battle for a short timeAlso, it seems unfair that a ship can be essentialy put out of the battle by having just one subsystem destroyed. [/B]
No problem if it's too hard to implement, these are only ideas
#145
Idea for a research item:
Shark skin - your ships outer hull is modified, instead of smooth surface it will be more like sandpaper, just like a shark's skin. This will increase your speed under water.
[real-world background] it has been discovered that this sandpaper-skin is actually more fuel-efficient, and they are now playing around with new airliner hull designs to lower fuel requirements.
@Rival: I agree with Sp3ctre, the ship looks a little too much like a fish... mybe if you could add engines instead of the tail fin or something...
Other than that, your models look pretty good. Keep up the good work!
Last edited by Moe; 27th Oct 03 at 2:18 PM.
Ocean floor = megalith or several large flat asteroids with many harvest points. Should be easily doable, and you could have underwater terrain, too.
- nickersonm
nickersonm-- We talked about this on the IRC, and thats esentialy what I sugested. It might not work, because if we want it to look good, the floor is going to have quite a few polys. And yes, an ocean floor would open some interesting level posibilities, with underwater chasms, steam vents, etc.
i wish my scanner worked.
what scanner?
Spc3tre- the "special" torpedoes proved harder to make than I thought, so I'm still working on them.
While I'm working on those, someone should give me some stats for a torpedo bomber, which should actualy prove much easier to make than the torpedoes. I could probably make a good torp bomber in a day, but need to know the torp guidance, speed and manuverability, and the ships stats as well.
For now it's sufficient a bomber like the higaarian, generally less acceleranting and less manuverable, the rockets will be fired at an appropriate frequency, about a pair every 3-4 seconds and the they will start slowly accelerating fast to high speeds. No manuverability, rockets go straight or the bombers will become too powerful. I never tweaked damage points, so use the damage you feel appropriate, but keep in mind that they're weak but very powerful, more and more than the hgn or vgr bombersOriginally posted by thesamonthemoon
While I'm working on those, someone should give me some stats for a torpedo bomber, which should actualy prove much easier to make than the torpedoes. I could probably make a good torp bomber in a day, but need to know the torp guidance, speed and manuverability, and the ships stats as well.
I'll start thinking about the ship model for this
Another thing.. try editing hardpoints so a rocket cames out from the model, instead of being created near it. Dont spend much time on it: only to see what effect it gives....
Last edited by Sp3ctre; 28th Oct 03 at 1:16 PM.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
