I'm afraid I don't have the quote on hand. I don't think MacBug actually explicitly said that you just show the 90% quality side to the public, but I think he implied it.
I'm afraid I don't have the quote on hand. I don't think MacBug actually explicitly said that you just show the 90% quality side to the public, but I think he implied it.
A Brave New Homeworld. (◔ ◡ ◔ )
I like the explosions. However, i would like them more if we saw the hull of the ship fragment into individual pieces instead of just disappear.
I'd like it if it worked that way, too, unfortunately that's largely restricted by the engine itself. The fiery jets stop spawning particles when the ship's mesh disappears, so we can't cause the mesh to disappear until the explosion propogates properly.
This means that if we want to have a long explosion, we need to have the main hull of the ship obscured for a large part, which can get kinda hard at times. I'll see what I can do though.
Similarly, we can't have the ship mesh dynamically break apart without access to the source (and a level 16 coding wizard). Siber and I have discussed making ship chunks; I'm not sure if we want to do it at the moment though. It's something for down the line.
Guys, just remarking that those explosions are quite nice. I know in the HW original ones there were bits of quickly-fading triangular debris that were also flung out, and I agree that they might benefit from some of those in addition to the excellent ball-of-light shrapnel.
Bakuras, who hasn't been seen in some time, created a debris mod that generated lots of chunks of persistent debris. Here's the link: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...6&page=1&pp=15
if it's useful to you.
Oh wow I forgot all about that mod. Yes, that would look so lovely with these new explosions!Originally Posted by Retroboy
Hath anyone verily existed a stones throw unwavering quite assured to employ thee venture yonder desireth to become appear vastly similar?
As far as I remember, having so many debris made the game lag as hell quite quickly :/Originally Posted by Retroboy
This is 2009, and there's Graphics cards like the Nvidia GTX 295 out :P
Graphics Card's aren't everything; processor speed is another big factor. It's part of my understanding that one of the reasons that mods which add lots of weapons to ships (like PDS) lag so bad is not because of the graphics, but because of the AI calculations necessary. I could be wrong, though.
8800GTS @ 1150/575
4GB KinstonHyperX @ 1200Mhz
Q6600 @ 3.73Ghz
Yes, Your wrong (sort of). the graphics cards are usually not good enough for the processor (like mine) and its the software Physics calculations that are slow. the GTX 295 is fast cos it does the physics calculations in the hardware, not in the game itself
Well gentlemen, I appreciate your enthusiasm but my laptop is considerably less beefy (1.6 ghz, 1.8 gb ram, no graphics card to speak of) than those machines, so I'm afraid I won't be generating giant clouds of persistant debris.
The other reason I'm not going to be doing that is that I think the stock debris chunks are fugly. Siber and I have discussed a possibly shining future where we actually dice up our ships and have ship (or at least ship-class) specific debris chunks. If we can swing it they'll inherit some teamcolors from their owner. But that's a long way down the road.
Short lived debris sprays on the other hand are something I investigated earlier; I found that it clashed with the larger explosions but I'll take another look into it for y'alls.
Semi-Important Question: I can put together these FX in a mini download, but they're not particularly intuitive. I made the FX entity-scaled, but it's not as simple as just changing one line to put them into the game. You're seeing lots of different effects getting called at once in the video; copy-pasting from the .events file of one of our ships would work but if you wanted to use them as weapon explosions you'd have to do a considerable amount of tweaking. So, is anybody interested in me putting together a one-off with the fx files and a sample HW@ ship to copy off of, or would you rather that we hold off 'till the next release and you check it out then?
WARNING: Either way will take a bit; I've got a project due soon and if you opt for the later release, Siber and I are spinning our wheels a bit on the artistic side of things.
I'd be interested in such a standalone special-effects-only mod, but I'm not the type to invest in modding it myself (lazy, but honest ) . Consider me a potential customer of same, though, particularly as I can see this enhancing the single-player campaign or skirmish without impacting game balance at all.
OK, got a lick of spare time to mess with adding debris chunk sprays to the death events... I feel kinda like a cop-out to admit that I'm not sure I like how they're turning out so far. So I made some screencaps to sorta show off my issues, which are three fold.
1) Zoomed out a fair bit, the thin black panels become pretty much invisible even for a destroyer. I can't find a value that lets me LOD particles, and if I scale them up they start to look kind of comical.
2) Up close they compete for visual attention with the fire jets, which isn't okay in my book, not one bit. I've got some ideas for addressing this (having the debris panels spawn way earlier and move way slower, to fade out by the time the fire jets spawn).
3) The fire jets are about six files per ship size class; the debris sprays are more than twice as numerous at fourteen with an emitter and a particle for each of the seven debris meshes.
Here's the pictures. The first one looks okay; but the second I think kinda illustrates my issue with them crowding out the fire jets.
FIRING EDIT BEAAAAAAAAAM:
OK, I went with the idea of spawning the debris a little earlier (and managed to get a sweet screenshot out of it). Tell me what you guys think:
Also, I don't know if many of you frequent the studio, but I dumped like all the aggregated concept material I've produced so far over there. Thought it might pique a few interests, I dunno.
Last edited by Avatar II; 23rd Apr 09 at 10:54 PM.
I decided to futz around with some ideas on how we might do gravity wells. The current approach is looking increasingly unworkable, but some early tests were spectacular enough that I decided to make a video of it. I hope you enjoy it.
Co-founder of Homeworld:@
Open to new members
That was crazy, and a little hard to understand, were those asteroids rolling around when it was turned on?
They were indeed. There are 120 asteroids on that map, and it ended up with all of them pulled on top of it. Fun fact: There seems to be no collision detection on asteroids.
that was really hard to see clearly...
Avatar II...I would be interested.I can put together these FX in a mini download
I especially like the final ship explosion.
I created a similar effect but as a weapon impact for a D.O.W mod that I was working on using the their FXTool.
I can most likely develop them as missile and torpedo impacts.
send the files to firstname.lastname@example.org
Or post a link to the files.
strange...as wonderfull as it may be,i'm still...up here... floating...and no one even seems to notice.
I don't have much to say to that video aside from the fact that it was fucking hilarious and awesome, but also probably game-breaking. I think that - ah hah - Gravity Well generator will need some serious toning down.
Seeing as it currently will unstoppably kill an entire enemy fleet of any size... yeah, I'd agree with that. We were trying to represent the GW Generator's effectiveness against fighters by having it suck 'em in and then shred 'em with tidal forces (represented by overlaying sphereburst weapons). It was just sorta surprising to see how nicely it mimicked gravitation. I tell ya; they cut corners in the formation, targeting, and resourcing AI but keep a rich push/pull physics system... the programmers for HW2 must have been patently insane.
Adamstrange: File's done, waiting on ModDB to make sure it hasn't got computer-ebola or anything silly like that. Expect postage within 24 hours.
Haha that was epic, thanks for the link and good luck with your endeavours, I've been watching this thread for a while and it's been interesting to see things progress,
all the best.
That was so batshit insane I was hysterical.
Couldn't you do that but set the pull to like .....650, and set it so there's no damage.
Wait how exactly did you do that?
It looks like you just made it fire a bizzillion weapons with pull effects on them >_>
Woah, Avatar!! Was that the really mind boggling explosions that you sent to adamstrange?? if it was, can you turn them blue so i can use them in my star trek mod, wait. i can turn them blue myself! Can I use them as well?
That iteration had a sphereburst weapon with a pull effect set rather considerably high, firing at whatever the max fire rate is in the HW2 engine(one shot every tenth or fifth of a second, I think.), with an effect radius of about 65 kilometers. The ship itself has a very high health, and I turned collision damage on. Usually the carriers go up at the same time as the mothership, but in that one it managed to fall into a semi-stable orbit for a while. The real fun thing is when you get two gravwells pulling each other, then things get really nutty.
Making it actually work as one expects a gravwell to is proving, well, neigh impossible, which is why I expect we'll end up following a different route. The problem is, I expect, that fighters have drastically higher acceleration, so they're able to effectively fight the effects of the pull, while capital ships are completely at the mercy of the tug. In fact, I'm not entirely sure that the mass value has any effect on how much pull is exerted, but I've yet to rigorously test that.
In other news, Talhydras' effects minimod has cleared ModDB's authorization process, and is now available Here, with instructions contained within. They're available to all, under the conditions explained within(pretty much our normal deal.)
Phatboygeo: I believe I can walk you through the process with little hassle. You will most likely need to become familiar with photoshop or one of its free-er web brethren. Gimme a PM when you've got the FX pack on your computer.
Please give me feedback on the readme in the FX pack, by the way. It's the first readme I've ever written; I'd like to know if its coherent and helpful or not. There's a huge pile of files contained therein and I have a hard time keeping track of it.
Here's another question I'm kinda interested in knowing what y'alls think about, kinda in the vein of the mini fx release. Would people be interested in us releasing the completed meshes and texture files for our models? Siber and I got into modding largely by taking stuff apart and looking at how it works. I really hate those saccharine stories of self made men; but I never thought I'd ever be able to texture till I tried and it's been incredible fun. If we can help people get started, I think we would want to.
I have FX tool. i created a photon effect. i can do it. I just need the FX files :P
Well, those are the effects in question. Lemme know if you can make sense of 'em.
OH, there are all for ships for the @ mod. oh i dont have your mod...yet. ill have to salvage them XD
That's actually something of an interesting question. To ruin the punch line, no, but confusion is understandable.
On one hand, due to our willingness to share, our models and effects will most likely find their way into the Homeworld Universe mod. In that sense, our works will part of the Homeworld Universe mod.
On the other hand, we are not making this with the goal of incorporating it into HW:U. HW:U has a very broad scope, and is very very inclusive. I applaud the idea and effort behind it, but we are doing something rather more narrow. This mod is meant to stand alone as a replacement to HW2, while HW:U is essentially a supplement to HW2, as I understand it. In that sense, the two projects are very different things.
So no. While some of these ships are a part of HW:U, this mod is not a part of HW:U.
In another vein, any luck with the effects minimod?
Not yet because I was doing other things.
I set up the mod as a BIG file but it crashed.
Maybe because there where no HODS for the game to read ?
Anyway what I wanted to say was that sometime ago someone here at the forums had an idea/or maybe started to create a mod called Homeworld 2 Empires [or something like that] but I guess they dropped it.
A few years back I started to create a mod for Generals ZH that would have dozens of new units for both sides.
I wanted the game to have a much bigger feel when playing so that the player would feel as if they are commanding huge fleets into battle.
Since HW2U seems to be a community efforts of sorts,why not do this...
Take all of the ships from BSG [both races] all of my ships for the Hgn and Vgr, and all of the ships from Complex ,PDS as well as almost evvery other mod,along with all of my fx as well as those being created here with the biggest maps ever made and create one truly massive mod on the scale of Supreme Commander and call it Homeworld 2 :Rise of Empires.
Cylons vs Vgr vs The Colonies vs the Hgn vs who ever else you want to put in.
Adamstrange: hah... I figured if you wanted HW@ HODs you'd have downloaded the bigger HW@ releases... in the readme I did state that I removed the .hods and included the .ship and .events files for reference, not so you could just plug and play... if you want to see 'em, just open up unh_ddstandard.events, copy the last seven events onto the end of any other ship in the game, adjust event numbers (event24, event35, etc), play, and scuttle 'em.
That sounds like a ...unique mod. You'd have to get permission from the BSG guys, of course. You might want to suggest that to the HW2U guys; that's their bailiwick. We're focused more on making a quality homeworld sequel using established factions as well as some of our own (so no BSG units). We're going to be getting rid of all the stock HW2 designs entirely (so no PDS or Complex units), and we're going to go back to HW1 gameplay before adding in our own balance changes (again, no PDS or Complex units).
Regardless, further development of your HW2: Rise of Empires idea belongs in its own thread .
So! Adhira has, sadly, fallen off the internet. This means that the penguin has fallen into my pile of things to work on. Mad props go to Adhira for doing the majority of the grunt work, particularly when it comes to the 'beak' area, but I have finally gotten back to it and done some significant polishing. As such, it's time to trot out the probably-mesh-complete UNH resourcer for your viewing pleasure.
First, a look at it in what will be it's fixed state if we don't get animations working right, and it's harvesting state if we do.
And then a look at some of it's articulation features, including the covering of the harvesting array and the tank latch.
A spot of fun: A shot with a human sized figure for scale reference.
And another one showing off the cockpit window size. Luxury!
Wouldn't the fact that it looks like a Swiss army knife be a plus - it's a utility ship, after all!
Sorry in advance for the double-post, but I've run into a problem I feel I should notify you guys about. In the FTInterceptor ship file, you make reference to a "weapon_rightgun" hardpoint that does not exist in the FTInterceptor HOD that you provided in the download. So the game crashes whenever you build an interceptor.
This is easily fixed by just removing the "weapon_rightgun" entry - since the right gun is slaved, according to the HOD - but something worth fixing none the less.
In other news, do you guys mind if I make some of your ships PDS-compatible?
Don't worry about the double post, I'm fairly sure they're kosher in situations like this
Re errors: Have you actually experienced crashes that needed fixing? I only ask because I tested the release package before posting it. I just checked the files of it and the rightgun line is present but commented out, as I would expect.
Has anyone else run into trouble with this?
Ahh, I think I see why I was having the crashes now.
As I was editing the interceptor to be PDS compatible, I added a few missile-launchers using the weapon_rightgun hardpoint. I didn't realize you had commented out that hardpoint - if I had I would have used the leftgun. Once I started crashing I wound up deleting all the rightgun entries.
Ah well, my mistake in that case.
Edit: Once I finish editing a few other ships, I might post some pictures.
For a while we were doing updates on the state of things every weekend. I miss that, so let me tell you a few of the things that we've been up to.
First up: The harvester model has been finished up and UVed, and is now undergoing texturing. It's quite exciting.
Second of all, there are a lot of areas in which we have always had plans, but we have been holding off on in favor of doing what we already know how to do, in the hopes that the quality of our shipmaking and what glimpses of our writing we have shown here would attract people with the skills we seek. It has become apparent that we may have been overly hopeful there, so with the end of semester I have launched whole-hog into as many of them I can. The things that have been done is as follows.
I've set things up for a unified race prefix system, ala HW:U, among other threads around here. I've also implemented Mikail's Special Fleets system for selecting player race, of course. This also marks a turning point; for reasons that should become clear further down this post, many of the planned features will require significant effort to maintain support for the stock races, and as we plan on totally removing them anyway, this seemed like the opportune time to make the break. I plan on including some target practice fleets of various stripe, but be advised that unless something crops up, the next release will only include the UNH as a playable faction.
The penguin's pending completion comes at a good time, then, as it'll make an all UNH faction reasonably feasible. However, you may have noticed that the thing has a rather complicated articulated mouth. We had long hoped that Adhira would return and resume his role as animator, but finishing the mesh myself marks the acceptance that I can't count on it happening, so I finally bit the bullet and learned how to do it myself. I can say with reasonable confidence that I have a handle on it, and the penguin should be fully animated upon release. As we get closer to that point, there may be a video showing it off.
Mapping is yet another area where we have been waiting, but I've dove into it and developed a basic map with Mikail's map functions. The next release will include (2P) First Steps, if nothing else. One of our long-standing goals is to recapture as much of the HW1 gameplay as possible, and map design is a key element of that. This map will encourage player movement far more constantly than the HW2 maps. I am also experimenting with new asteroid models to provide more variety.
Relatedly, campaign scripting is a key area I've scratched the surface of. While I have no tangible products yet, I am confident in my ability to achieve what we need in this area. The same is true of non-interactive sequences, though that will be longer in coming.
Perhaps most ambitious, we have always wanted to bring back a degree of Homeworld 1's build interface and parallel build capabilities. A ship that can build a battle cruiser should be able to build more than one frigate at a time. I have reason to believe that this is not impossible, and will be plowing ahead with it as soon as possible, though there is much yet to be done to prepare. This is one of the main reasons why the old races will be increasingly hard to support.
Finally, many or all of these points will almost certainly require at least a partial rewrite of the AI code. My non-modeling time is largely being spent chewing through the existing code in an effort to understand it as much as possible before doing anything that might spectacularly break it.
I will say this: Bugs in these areas are quite a bit more spectacular than the ones I've seen before. With a .hod error, you will just get a crash to desktop. With gamerule scripting you can end up spawning and killing a whole starting fleet every frame. With our death events, that kills the game in short order, but is pretty spectacular before it goes.
All that said, if anyone wants to contribute to any area of the mod, we'd be happy to hear from you.
I am afraid that all I have to offer is some experience scripting weapons, ship files, and adding hard-points to already HOD'ed ships. Not terribly difficult tasks, and I'm sure these are all things you already know how to do, but if you need an extra hand with that sort of thing I would be happy to help.
Edit: If you're looking for help with campaign scripting, I know the PDS mod (versions 7.# to 11) all had successfully scripted missions with cutscenes and all (though no voice acting). If you're looking for references, they might be useful.
Last edited by Wintermute; 9th May 09 at 11:59 PM.
Derp, didn't see your edit. It's true that PDS did some stuff with missions, though I thought they only modified the stock missions enough to work with their ships? Maybe I'll check it out again, it's been a long time. I think the PDS community is pretty much dead at this point, so going to them for help probably won't work out too well, but I'll see what I can turn up. At the least their campaign files might be useful to dissect and look at. They can't be any less well commented than the stock ones.
Regarding the other: Avatar and I started out with really close to no skills in the areas we now consider ourselves proficient in. If anyone has a desire to help and will to learn, I at least am willing to give them as much of a hand as I can. Even failing that, hm... tell me, do you have much experience with innate subsystems?
So maybe biweekly updates. That seems more sustainable.
As previously mentioned we're going to been attacking the AI, trying to master it so we can implement some new systems and hopefully make it use them properly. This is coming along decently, but one upshot is that it seems a lot smarter in the long run for us to make the AI work with a full ship list. It would then become a real chore to cut out all the placeholder ships and the code needed to use them for every release. So, the next release is probably going to have a veritable bevy of placeholder ships(though we're making sure to include an option to only play with finished, polished ships). As such, it makes sense now to show off the full UNH tech tree as it stands now.
Two things to keep in mind. First, research may not work quite like this in the campaign, as we've got some different plans for that. Second, and more importantly, We may cut any of these ships, or rearranged, or restricted in strange ways.
The other peice of for the moment: we have previously mentioned that we obtained permission from Reiss and Ammon Ra to use the Taiidani scout drawn by the former and modeled by the latter. Despite multiple distractions and other interveening projects, we have finally finished meshing and Uving this ship. Avatar is working on the Penguin of course, but this is ready for texturing when the time comes.
Finally, I thought I'd mention that there is a HW:@ chatroom. #HW@ on irc.rizon.net occasionally has on topic conversation, and there's usually someone hanging out if someone drops in.
I like the idea of cloaked fighter, bomber, and destroyer, and the idea of the drone destroyer. On an other hand could you explain what is the use of the cloaked defender ? It seems useless along the standard defender and the cloaked fighter.
Cloaked defenders have the same advantage of the fighter, bomber, and destroyer. Imagine sending a destroyer squadron, apparently unescorted, when in actuality it's covered by cloaked defenders. The enemy sends in bomber wing, and when they get in range, bam, defender city. Also, defenders are the must vulnerable fighter to larger guns, so being able to make a cloaked approach to battle should greatly help their survivability.
All right. Not bad ideas so far, but they're gonna have 7 fighter - isn't it too much ? And how will you balance them so for example the standard bomber don't become obsolete as soon as the cloaked one can be built ?
Point the first) Generally they'll have lower health, speed, and Firepower, as well as being rather expensive. Did cloaked fighters make interceptors obsolete?
Point the second) The cloaked fighters are one of the most speculative areas, we may only end up having one or two of them. If so it's uncertain which one(s) will make the cut, so I put them all on the tree.
Point the third) It always bothered me that the capital ship tree was so much deeper than either strike craft tree. Putting in all the cloaked fighters was one step to combat that.
Well, in HW1 cloaked fighters were nearly as efficient as interceptors : nearly as much shielded and fast, a little less powerful, but it took much more longer to build them. Anyway I still think they made the interceptor obsolete. Kinda. It's to be thought about anyway. I hope you'll make proximity detectors difficult to be built.
Sorry Siber, I guess I didn't see your post responding to mine until just now.
"Innate" subsystems... You mean like turrets which function as if they were subsystems (eg: can be targeted and/or possibly destroyed / disabled)? Edit: And also things like Capital Ship engines and the Vaygr BC missile battery...
I certainly have experience with those, although I have never attempted to HOD one from the ground-up, and have only manipulated already existing HODs. For PDS, when I worked on it briefly, pretty much all I did was add hardpoints to already existing ships for innate turret or module subsystems to use.
I have lots of free time these days, so I should have time to learn new things as well.
Also: Impressive looking research tree!
Last edited by Wintermute; 25th May 09 at 3:20 PM.
Wintermute: What I mean is subsystems the ship is built with. Engines and destroyable turrets probably do count, or at least are very similar. I believe this may be the solution to some problems I'm having, in particular adding cloaks to fighters. No matter what I do to the .ship file, I can get all the outward indications of the cloaking ability, but the cloak command is not available. My suspicion is that if they are built with a subsystem akin to the cloaking subsystem capital ships can construct in stock, it'll work, but I'm not certain how exactly to do that and haven't taken the time to figure it out yet.
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