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There is a matter which interests me:
How much does your life cost? (For You)
And one more question:
How much does the life of a man costs? (Not your life, but the life of common man)
Especially for Bnonn:
These questions are not for you. (and not for your assasines too)!
Do not answer, please.
But I would like to see your comments about questions and answers.
Ummmm are you referring to the cost of things I.E. bills and other expenses
or
how much you end up spending on yourself in your lifetime....
or
how much it costs to buy a human soul? :evil:
#3
I to am i a bit confused by these questions. What currency are we dealing with here? What rate of inflation during this mans life should we expect?
sum of living = basic needs + luxuries
basic needs = food, water and shelter
luxuries = hobbies, education and social activities
I dont think it's possible to sum this up, as each week is unique and the cost of living can change so much.
But on a side note.....I will sell my girlfriends 7-year-old to the highest bidder....lets start the bidding at $-1,000.00 :jk:
Well, the life of an Australian citizen is valued at something like $40,000. This is the sum thats quoted as a 'loss' to the economy
when someone dies in a car accident. Obvisouly this is
averaged out somehow.
A life of a Somali or Ethiopian is valued at something like U$1000-U$2000.
Disgraceful? Yes. But only if we allow the cost to be expresed
in very myopic terms that the spreadsheet sociopaths tend to.
On the other hand;
Set of kidneys U$10,000.
Heart+Lung $10000+U$10000
Corneas, U$500-U$1000
Liver U$ 10000 (Whole) (U$5000 half).
Etc etc.
Pretty much adds to $40000 on the organ market.
If you want to add up all the minerals in our body its something
like $1.50
You can buy a third world child from as low as ~U$200 in Africa.
I do not know the price in the US is but there are about 200,000
children per year traded in the US according to the US authorities.
I will whore my brain to you for about U$50,000 per year.
Then on the other hand you may want to put a value on the work
that an artist does. All the joy he will bring to millions of people
who will ever see his work. Priceless.
I do not think this is something you want to explore too deeply.
Otherwise you may find that some people actualy OWE the society
for all their mis-deeds
#7
I think we need a grammatical clarification from the thread starter as to what this is about.
Unless vagueness was your aim Mr Ramirez.
Wulfy - Good job. Very inter.
I think I said it clearly.
HOW MUCH would you pay for the life.
Suppose, you've killed a man (Accidentally or not, it doesn't matter). How much would you pay to his/her relatives to keep this quiet (Suppose, this can be done).
I'd kill the rest of his/her family and eat the remains.....no money involved! :evil:
Last edited by jpaugh78; 30th Oct 03 at 5:54 AM.
F. Ramirez, you're wrong, you didn't say it clearly at all.
Your explanation sheds some light on your thoughts, though.
For myself, I'd take what was coming to me. If it was an accident, if it was a fit of rage, if it was premeditated, I accept that there are proper consequences for things. If I had planned to murder someone, I would neatly file "going to jail" under "getting caught" and accept it if it came.
Wouldn't you rather go out in a blaze of glory then rot in jail?
#12
Define a blaze of glory for the less informed.
And where's the glory in killing someone and then trying to bribe their family into silence?
The best example of going out in a "Blaze of Glory" would be getting into a gun battle with the police when they come to arrest you. So, instead of rotting in jail all those years....you die from the police making you look like swiss cheese.
Right, so in addition to killing someone, I could add to my positive contribution to the world by potentially killing another person who has dedicated their life to public safety, and placing my own death on someone else's conscience.
Yeah, that sounds great, jpaugh.
But you wouldn't be rotting in jail......was my point. If you had planned out the previous murder, I only assume you reached the point of not giving a shit anymore.
#17
I wouldn't feel particularly good about killing some random person, but I'm damned if I'm going to jail for it. If it's an accident, I'll do my best to cover it up. If it's premeditated, well...I won't feel particularly bad in that case, and I'll be as sure as I can be that there's nothing for the forensics teams to track me down with.
If I killed somebody, it would be time for me to take that visit to the EU I've been meaning to take, devalued U.S. dollar be damned.
Agreed, Bnonn, I wouldn't plan a murder to get caught. Having taken the major leap to carefully decide to end another person's life, I've already chosen to become an agent of suffering. Whatever my motives would be, they're probably best served by my not being in jail.
However, I choose not to live as an agent of suffering. If I killed someone by accident, I would take responsibility, for the sake of the people who would be affected by the death. It's the very least I could do.
if i killed someone....no one would ever find out....just as you havent bout the others...
lol!!
nah, id make sure there was no way that i could be found out for the crime, or if there where a way, id go live in antartica, living of raw fish and the odd polar bear/penguin( ? )
#21
I understand your sentiments Squid. Unfortunately, I think I am a narcissistic prick who would rather suffer guilt than punishment.
[Edit: wow Daedalus, you really made me laugh with that post. Are you in the comedy business?]
nah, its just the voices in my head........
#23
I see, that's why your name has a number after it; that's how many personalities you have.
tis true that i have many personalities....now all thats left for you to do is work out which ones to trust.................if any at all
#25
o_O
Ok, I may actuall be the cynical person of this thread, but life doesn't mean squat, with 6 billion+ plus people on the planet one life or even a few hundred lives shouldn't mean squat, in the grand scheme of things. People put too much value into the lives of other people that they don't even know. Humans are just animals on this planet that are a little smarter than all the other animals that we live with, you could also argue that we are dummer than most of the animals as well, from the stuff that we do. Just because of all the advances that we have made doesn't mean that we are some special species that is destined to rule this planet, some aliens could show up and kick all our asses, or we could nuke ourselves and the planet of the apes could be science fact instead of science fiction. Life is not as precious as some people would think, when you have thousands of unwed mothers with 5+ kids and spitting more out as soon as they can give birth, in some rundown ghetto, is life really that precious? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't just go out to kill someone for the hell of it or even if I had a good reason, because that is just wrong, also I hope I never have an accident where that would happen, but I still don't think people should be making such big deals of this kind of stuff.
On a more serious note, maybe someone here works at an Insurance company and can give us exact nubers, but when stuff like air planes crash, the insurance companys figure out what the person did for a living. Then they get the age and figure out basically, how many more years that person could still work, how much they would make. Then figure in pain and suffering, and a little for cost of living rising, and that is a very very summed down explination of how they figure out a persons worth.
I was on jury to do with an accidental death once. Its like Higaran said.
We had to work out what the compensation was. They got a Insurances stats character to estimate their income for the rest of his life. This was then paid/invested for widow. But of course it was completely wrong. They estimated 1% inflation and it got up to 18% in the mean time.
In non monetory terms you would have to estimate what they would contribute to society. But you can't predict future. If I shot IonFish he may have been going to become a Dictator. But Squiddna might discover cure for AIDS. Who can tell.
The punishment for killing someone???
Deep moral problem:- do I have right (as society) to take life for life, I am not saying a thing . Its flame starting??.
Actually I will:-
If a person takes the life of another yes, society does because we have agreed that this is one of the rules of society. You break you pay
Do I have the right to start & kill people in a war : no way
Do I have the right to use deadly force against someone who is trying to kill me: Dead right
Last edited by Pleiades; 30th Oct 03 at 6:37 PM.
#28
Higaran, if life has no worth, why is it wrong to kill someone?
Bnonn, it is wrong, because that is what we have been conditioned to believe for a couple of thousand years. People have been taught that it is wrong to kill UNLESS you are at war and it is your enemey you kill. Then it's perfectly all right, but killing isn't about stopping someones life, it is about stoppings someone life prematurly, and that is wrong. Everyone has the right to live their lives untill they get really old and die, but it doesn't always happen that way.
I dont know.
But Taliban (yes the evil, evil Taliban) had the right idea.
If you killed someone the family of the victim decided
what to do with you. They could kill you or they could forgive you.
If we were to adopt something like this, we would certainly
find out exactly how CHRISTIAN we all are. Forgiveness
being the fundamental pillar of Christianity.
Not to mention people would drive MUCH, MUCH more carefuly.
The fundamental way of crime and punishment has a lot of merit.
As it is, the current legal system is biased against the poor
who can not afford a good lawyer/flee the country.
Wulfius
The same things apply in Papua/New Guinea
Don't accidently run over a tribesman they will chase you for "PAY Back"
The other thing is why is it all right for christians to kill in a war.
"Because the enemy is evil/sub human/pagan" etc etc
#32
$1,400 in Australia
IF AND ONLY IF
you kill someone with a car.
Because that's how much you get fined.
#33
I think a better question is how much would you pay to save someone's life?
Khet; that also depends on who they are? Does it not
(and whether I am a bleeding liberal or not ;-)
Life has no value.
If you have to pay (with money) for accidently killing someone, thats called compensation or something like that.
If you have to pay (with your life) for murdering, thats called an eye for an eye or some other thing.
I hadn't really really value my life untill a few months back.
What made my brain thinking of life was my girl friend calling me "superman". I ask her why'd she'd call me that?? She said because I was there for her when she had problems, supporting her and telling her what was right and wrong, and what must be done.
I really didn't think of the value life previously, if I die then that's it, bye bye. If I'm driving and I knock someone down, then they die no big deal. I could even jump out a building right now, what's stoping me?? I don't value my life, it isn't worth anything. Right??
I could even kill someone with my bare hands if I have a second to prepare, what would you feel if some nut case did that to your loved ones??
But to someone else, your life is worth a lot to them. You may not know it, but its there. Think about the people that has taught you anything and everything. No money in the world or cloning could bring That person back!!
If someday the cynical troll doesn't come trashing other peoples thread, some of you people on this forum will ask about it.
Which means the cynical troll has value on other peoples heart. How do you calculate this with money??
Sorry Bnonn had to use an example. Lets give a big round of applause to Bnonn for volunteering. :blow: :blow:
So if you're with people that doesn't value life and friendship, then you are with the wrong company.
I don't mean to look down on some people, some just can't change. Like me a few years back. I do what I like and I do what I want,
you can't control me I live in a free world. But am I doing the right thing. And I haven't yet grown up and mature.
Also you have to give in order to receive, so go out and mix with people but be weary of those that take advantage and the negatives. They'll bring you down, you'll just have to prove to yourself that you're strong.
Uuummm.... so my point is you can't value life with money.
To those that think that maybe I have money so that it's easier for me,I'll say no. I'm working 8 hours on daytime and I've found something that is worth doing 6 hours during the night. And I have to work hard if I wanna good life.
any how, 5000 pounds is the going rate for a hitman, upwards if they are a harder target or well known. personally i'd do it for around 10,000 pounds sterling. just coz im greedy basically.
as for saving a life..............the gratitude of the person and those connected with them is all you have the right to expect. besides which, youll be making a friend for life, so it anit all that bad.
#37
Sickening. It's people like you that retard the progress of our race. Have some f'ing respect and faith in your own species.Originally posted by Higaran
Just because of all the advances that we have made doesn't mean that we are some special species that is destined to rule this planet
oneredpanther - proud to be human.
ORP, how far have we really advanced?
When there are millions world wide homeless and hungry, when food is so cheap in other places. When someting as simple as flu vacinations aren't going around, sometings because because there aren't enough and sometimes becasue people are too ignorant won't take them and claim that the government is trying to get them or some other krap. Yes there are people that are really smart and advanced, and then there is the majority which doesn't even know who the hell the vice president is. This doesn't look like advancement to me, it looks just like the rest of history, the eliete few trying to be educated and have everything, all the time trying to keep the masses content just so they don't rebel.
#39
Werd Hiigara, imagine the potential of Africa for instance, if it became a leading first world country, due to it's size and resources, shame it's full of warring factions and aids. :hmm:
World is a big scrambled mess to my eyes, after all we are only animals, we have weaknesses such as greed, lazyness, carelessness.
Sometimes I am proud to be human, when I think what we have achieved, then I think of some of the things that still happen today, such as our total lack of respect for the environment and other animals, aswell as each other.
#40
And yet we're still here, still achieving great things.
what, nuclear war and mass extiction of so called lower speices? nice one..................
Exactly, with all the scientific advances we have made, we are still just as stupid as we where 1000 years ago, and we still use the same arcaic systems and have the same views. I understand that all the hindus and muslims have faith in their god, but where has it gotten them, and why aren't we going in there or even africa, and literally building everything they need to support them selves. If we can colonize the whole north american continent in 200 years, with the horse and wagon, we should be able to do than in a fraction of the time with the current level of tech, but we don't simply becaues every country only cares about them selves.
#43
Higaran, have you ever heard of the British Empire? They colonised a lot of places under the guise of 'civilising' them. India was one of those places; and yet, in 1947, the finally gained independence. If Western civilisation, with all its technology, is so great for these nations, why do they want to get rid of us so badly?
Ion, yes but for the british empire, to colonise a place to 'civilise' it, meant to go in there and bring back as much of the resources as possible and not give a krap about the people that live there, just educate a handfull of people so that they could speak english and translate. Which I'm sorry to say is exactly why they hate us so badly, if I was in their place I'd probably feel the same way. Up untill even today everything the britan and the US have do is to take the resources and make our country richer, and damn the other guy, he will never know how krappy he really has it. Untill some of this sci-fi stuff turns real, and we do actuall get all attacked by aliens, we will not stop fighting each other.
hm, well I've just read this topic and have to add my 2 cents...
I agree with Higaran's earlier statment, there are how many people in the world? losing a few is not going to make a big difference. In fact, most times we lose MORE life by valuing life than otherwise. One soldier dies, therefore the "logical" thing to do it start a war where 200 die. I am reminded of the scene in the Matrix where Agent Smith equates humans to viruses instead of mammals. that just stuck in my head. We take and take and take, and we simply keep on mulitplying. Sometimes i wonder if all our "advances" are good. Yes, we can make ourselves live long long lives, and we save so many lives who have cancer and the like, but then again, the human population is growing exponentially. And all our advances in weapons so that we can blow the hell out of earth. I also agree with Higaran when he says that we've been essentially "programmed" by society to believe that death is wrong and bad. Most from religion I think. I was raised Catholic and therefore I've had it shoved down my throat all my life. Now, i don't believe a word of that religion anymore and regard most as quite egotistical which brings me to another point, actually against Hirgaran's last statements. I don't think the US and Britain need to "civilize" all the other nations. I think that we are some of the stupidest nations. The US is the most egotistical place there is. We think that our way is the best way and everything works, which it doesn't. The wars going on right now is a perfect example of this. Those people do not want us there. They want to live their own lives without egotistical Americans thinking they are "uncivilized". I belive we are stupid. Look at kids today. The amount of work they do, clubs they belong to, tests they take. They do not have free moment in their day, and I'm supposed to believe we are the SMART ones?? I think my dog is the smartest animal actually. He sleeps when he's tired. Eats when he's hungry. He's perfectly happy to play catch with himself. Meanwhile I am pulling my hair out trying to figure out what the hell I'm going to write for my paper due in the next day. Somehow I have trouble believing I'm the smart one in this situation.
Well, there you go, maybe that's a bit more than 2 cents.
The Creator returned...
Creator of this thread...
Hey people. This topic turned to something other (something older, something from outside- I really like this Cata moment).
Sorry, but I don't know words how to impress what I intended to say...
So, let think about another matter.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE RIGHT PUNISHMENT FOR MURDER?
Available answers:
1. Money payment.
2. Death.
3. Imprisonment.
4. Hard labour.
5. Eye for eye (in meaning that if you killed a husband, you must became a husband and so on...)
6. Something else.
7. Nothing.
8. People must not kill.
9. Nothing of above. (Explain your view.)
#47
9. Why punish people for something if there is no such thing as absolute morality?
Come to that, what is the point of punishment in the first place?
Let murderers do hard labor all their life or something.
At least they make money for the rest of us.
Well, to me it depends on the circumstances of murder a bit.
My liberal side agrees with hyper
There was an idea in a SF book that I liked. The murderer becomes the servant of the victims next of kin for life.
My right wing side says some people do not deserve to live.
what is the point of killing someone for murder? are you not just commiting the same act as them? and, after all you are dimishing the gene pool, which would mean us all becoming inbred, dumbass mothers.
nah, the killing of a murderer should not be an option in a workable society, nor should they be allowed to live the same way we do, posing the delimma we are currantly in. hmmmmmm. it would make it so much easier if we could just bring back gladiator tournaments.
other then that slavery bound to the loved ones that you killed could work, unless they took pity on that person and did not abuse him like they should. perhaps live slavery to the state? hard labour instead of cells? that way we would still get materials and goods and they would still be punished. the only problem would be that it is taking jobs from the average guy. hmmmmmmmm.
how about all their worldley goods become the victems family and the murderer is used for drugs testing or rocket testing. that way they wont live long and technology is advanced. immoral i know, but an option me thinks, no?
isnt that the root of the matter? they have done an immoral act, and the only way to punish them for it is another, equally immoral act. maybe if we all accepted that it is our nature to be immoral we would have a much easier time diciding what punishment to dish out for what crime.
just my little rant...
Last edited by SquidDNA; 4th Nov 03 at 5:40 AM.
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