(2.301) St. Mere Dumont

[sighman]

This map is hopefully lost, and IMO is the worst of all the Automatch maps in terms of balanced playstyle. There are so many things wrong with it such as:

-The abundance of buildings near the center VP.
-The North has an advantage over the south due to better building/window placement. Also, the North doesn't need to take over a minimum of two points to gain access to their fuel.
-The immense contrast between negative and green cover practically throughout the map, making it almost impossible to be on the offense and much easier for the defensive player.
-With that said, it is generally accepted that certain factions are better on this then other (ie. Brits).
- Early mortars and MGs are near to impossible to flank/ destroy
-Too easy for camping because of the three chokepoints in the middle.
-The Ketten can still cap through the right hand fuel point wall.

What they should do is either remove it from automatch, or atleast fix it so that there is less building clutter in the middle, and replace it with open cover and a hedge or two (yea I realize its a town, but gameplay > believeability.

[ralph20]

Yes, before I liked it but now i hate it. Too much choke in middle, very noob map.

[armen]

i think if all buildings had windows on all sides this map would be a lot better...

[Latias418]

My preferred solution would be to remove it from automatch, not edit it. I love playing on the map, but just for fun, not in competitive matches. The building clutter makes for some pretty unique experiences imo.

[Fishy]

This map really needs to be removed from automatch.

[Q77]

I feel sorry for the creator, first he wins the mapcontest, all hail, then his map is the most hated 1v1 map,lol...

[Tempe]

There's nothing wrong with the map. If you can't take care of a garrisoned MG then you have bigger problems. If you can't adapt to play this map then learn to...

[zellyman]

There's nothing wrong with the map. If you can't take care of a garrisoned MG then you have bigger problems. If you can't adapt to play this map then learn to...

That's a brit player if I ever saw one. There comes a point when adaptibility is nigh impossible on a map that so heavily favors defensive positions that are impossible to flank due to all the clutter. Now, if only there was a faction that cold rely on emplacements...... hmmmm.....

Sarcasm aside, THe map takes the tactics out of a tactical game, because there is simply no room to manuver. Put a couple of MG's int he right buildings as either of the Vanilia Factions..and boy you've got one long, boring, one sided game on your hands...

[[TigerHunter]]

I hate brits! They`re OP on this map and that map and in my mothers kitchen when she makes pasta with alfredo sauce. Only noobs play Brits! Emplacement spammer blah blah no skill arty spammer blah blah.

Do you know about the great feature which allows you to unselect this map and therefore never play it again? It would save a lot of precious space on relicnews.com servers under the "Useless posts/Rants" folder.

Adapt, adapt, adapt. If you think that relics programmers are dumb enough to create and leave one unbalanced faction in their game, you have some growing up to do. They are smarter, more unique and all your base are belong to them.

I think Colonel Temp is just tired of hearing people complain about maps and the fact that brits are OP on all of them. Brits are a different style, an easy style to play, but definitly not overpowered.

Zellyman you pissed me off.

[ZabuzaNinja]

I think what it comes down to is, that yes, a Brit player can get into a position that is incredibly difficult to overcome. Often including a couple mgs, 17 pounders, and an arty or 2 in the back. In such a confined area this is difficult to overcome. But, it isn't easy getting to that point. A good axis player should be able to keep a brit from so strongly locking down the middle. So it can get unbalanced, but the match was already decided if it gets to that point.

[Rummy]

There's nothing wrong with the map. If you can't take care of a garrisoned MG then you have bigger problems. If you can't adapt to play this map then learn to...

That is so spot on mate, and is exactly one of the reasons why I like playing this map. Because Spamming a single unit, simply doesnt work, and forces each side to use a combined arms focus....fancy that! As a result of the varied units and greater need for tactics, this map is always entertaining and refreshingly different, whislt being only a spammer/blobbers worst nightmare.

[sighman]

There's nothing wrong with the map. If you can't take care of a garrisoned MG then you have bigger problems. If you can't adapt to play this map then learn to...

The problem with this map is much bigger then that, I just used that as an example, and it IS harder to flank on this map if you start from the south then it is from the north.

And what do you think people have been doing with this map... picking their asses doing the same strat, its obvious its quite imbalanced towards certain factions that its beyond adapting and more along the lines of fighting an uphill battle. Every high level player can vouch on this notion.

Do you know about the great feature which allows you to unselect this map and therefore never play it again? It would save a lot of precious space on relicnews.com servers under the "Useless posts/Rants" folder.

Erm no... unticking a map only lessens the likelihood of playing on the map, so it is still possible to play this map even if I have it unchecked.

[diLuca]

well, if brits are OP on this map, then nebels, stukas, mortarHT and some axis doctrines are OP on this map too

Do you know about the great feature which allows you to unselect this map and therefore never play it again?

deselecting a map doesnt prevent getting it. it just lowers the chance in the "dice roll" when the game starts.

[Lunar100]

I think they should just take it off automatch. I already have beaux and sturz deselected, I need more deselect slots damnit!

[Wolfhere]

Once and awhile I still like playing this map, just because it requires other tactics than flanking a fixed position. I'm saying this from primarily playing Wher as well.

I think a lot of people don't realize that maneuvering on this map is less restricted if you use the buildings not only as places to defend, but covered passages. There's nothing stopping you from entering a building then immediately exiting the other side.

Most of the time I find the map annoying, but once and awhile it's good for a change of pace.

[Q77]

I think they should just take it off automatch. I already have beaux and sturz deselected, I need more deselect slots damnit!

You know, I have the same... Wich is strange really,since Sturzdorf can give much more of a challenge than St Mere. I guess for me it is that I dont know my well on those 2 maps as well as I know them on St Mere for example. (Wich is basicly only one way,ehe).

Problem with St Mere is IMO that you can only do one thing there, and then counter whatever your opponent does...And he does the same. Occasionally a little suprise action can be done by pushing some armor through the wall behind the church, but most are already counting on that.
I think it needs to be widened a bit, and add 2 roads/paths along the side of the map, so there's at least an option to flank, or the threat that one can be flanked.

Since this thread is popping up bi-monthly, I guess not much will be done about it, so taking it off 1v1 rotation would be the easiest solution.

[Tseng_Fox]

Its really bad. The design is bad, but the balance on the map is worse for all factions.

It brings out loads of OP things in all factions, not just a specific one.

Its not even fun to play on. Its simply a matter of rushing the middle or top VP point and digging in. That then decides the winner.

Needs to be taken off immediatly to be honest.

[Romaneck]

Whats wrong with Beaux and Stur? those are some of my favs map...

Semois on the other hand... 2 well placed Mgs can cripple an american beyond salvation

[ARMYguy]

Its simply a matter of rushing the middle or top VP point and digging in. That then decides the winner.

You know, this sounds a lot like EVERY map in company of heroes... you rush for the center VP or a fuel point, and dig in. Or if your wehr you rush your MGs to a forward house/position, or if your Brits you rush the trench. I mean if you are gonna bash this map bash every map with a house anywhere near an oil or a vp too.

Im on the side of leave it in since its different and as usual different means people will complain. I even lose all day on this map to brits and american players and i still think the map is fine and fair, i only lose cause i do something weaksauce.

Now that i think of it, i dont know any rts game that has changed this either. In coh you rush for vps or fuels for teching, in cnc you rush for tiberium expansions, in generals you rush for oil derrecks with engines, in red alert 2/3 its oil derrecks and expansions again. Every game has the same rush for something gameplay, which is why this map does not make me mad. After decades of rushing to something, i am used to it.

[Tseng_Fox]

Difference is its unfair for the person who starts at the bottom. Its heavily biased towards the player at the north.

[sighman]

You know, this sounds a lot like EVERY map in company of heroes... you rush for the center VP or a fuel point, and dig in. Or if your wehr you rush your MGs to a forward house/position, or if your Brits you rush the trench. I mean if you are gonna bash this map bash every map with a house anywhere near an oil or a vp too.

Except on this map, it makes it easier to commit to this camping because of reasons I explained in the OP.

[Phlegm]

The south player needs to demo the building North of the center VP asap.

[Zeek]

I only like that map in a 1 v 1 with my friend, and only because he's a newb and I suck, so the window placement doesn't really apply.


Still, a fix for something broken is always nice.

[ARMYguy]

I dont recall ever losing in that map to a window or even a house, if i lose its cause of many other reasons, mainly being out played. I fail to see how this map is as bad as ones like vire and sheld (although amittedly these arent automatch)

[Lethal Dosage]

I like to play this map against a friend over LAN a fair bit, but since i'm quite a better player then he is (he can't quite keep an eye on everything thats going on at all times) i usually go easy on him, and i got to say though he's got a 50/50 win/loss against me on this map. Usually because either i went a little too easy on him and he pulled some nice moves and beat me in tactics or by a really good unexpected early game start, other times it was just by magically pulling a heavy tank onto the field when i was taking my time and wasn't expecting anything.

[burninglegionx]

ARMYguy, for an example, me playing PE 1vs1 automatch at lvl10+ vs US on this map, i had 0 losses for 20~ games on St Mere Dumont.

for eg, my PE starting at the bottom:
ketten moves up to the closest medium fuel at the middle part of the map. Then It goes for the 2nd fuel and if there's engineers, it moves away to link the fuel by capturing the 2x strat points, then goes to the fuel right next to my base then the 2x muni at the side then finally the 2nd middle fuel (after PGs chase off the engs) then it caps remaining points.

meanwhile
1st PG + G43, send it all the way to the front right away.
2nd, 3rd, 4th PGs all go to the front.

By the time US player gets a rifle squad out, my G43 PG is sitting in front of their base behind a good cover (and 3 more PGs coming this way). All i have to do is hold that line (it's easy w/ G43s), retreat a dying squad to build kampfgruppe and 1~2 HTs, then jager + ACs.

VVVV

I'd like to challenge ARMYguy on a PEvUS on St Mere dumont.

sadly, i don't have a computer that can run CoH...

wait till i get back home in december...

and building WSC = (about) building 1 PG (G43)

1st .3 HMG = (about) 2nd PG...

i don't know.. it's just, my G43 PG always gets to the US' vic point first.

[ARMYguy]

If i was using the US my MG would have been deployed before you could get men all the way over to my side of the map. The PE isnt the brits, they dont start with a squad, so you have to build it then walk it over, which means my MG is gonna be out, then some snipers to bleed you, then mortors. The lovely MGs have AP rounds with make most PE vehicles paper. This is how i lose to the US on this map. Aggressive MG movement with everything else supporting.

[Celution]

I really prefer the PE, but on this map 1v1 Automatch vs Brits...
The buildings are so worse placed that all the windows are facing the way to the north base and less facing to the south one, so the south guy has advance. Also One well placed Bofors rips my Marders to pieces, because with those buildings the Marder looses his advance with the range of his gun. One Bofors on a corner, and your mader can't reach it, and your inf can't kill because of MG's, and the Bofors is also pretected from my Mortar HT's.
This map should be OR removed from 1v1 OR rebalanced.

[Carl]

Aggressive MG movement with everything else supporting.

Which dies a few minutes in to yhe fast MT-HT. Your just not playing anyone who knows how to beat you i've encountered a very similar fight on this map. that fact that their are only 1 way into each fuel, and both can be locked far more efficently from the south than the north is an absolute killer long term. Add in the speed of movment of a ketten and it can tottally outcap you while the PG's outfight you. You can't avoid PG's to go capping on this map, and because PG's>Rifles early game it's an automatic gg situation against anyone with more than 5 ounces of brain power.

[Dymo]

Just as a point of interest. The 2 buildings North of the center VP have had windows added on the North side. What they need now is to add windows, to the Left House, looking from the south base, to the side facing the road. The Right building has them but not the other.

If the enemy gets into the Right building, occupying the Left one is just suicide for whatever goes in there.

[Fairplay]

The map should be removed from Automatches, but like a few others have said, its quite fun when your not playing seriously. Its really cluttered in the center and does favour the Brits to point where you can yell "OP'D" till your lungs explode.

[pileofnuts]

On another note, the map looks awful from a visual standpoint.