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[Tutorial] Setting up Creeps in DoW

  1. #1

    [Tutorial] Setting up Creeps in DoW

    As per the request, please find below a tutorial to set up a neutral creep faction in your DoW maps which can patrol, guard or escort.

    Have fun and good luck!

    Part 1 - First Things First

    Spoiler



    Part 2 - SCAR Ahoy!

    Spoiler



    Part 3 - A simple 2 point patrol

    Spoiler



    Part 4 - Guarding a location

    Spoiler



    Part 5 - Multi-point Patrols

    Spoiler



    Part 6 - Hiding behind your bigger mate

    Spoiler



    Part 7 - Parting is such sweet sorrow

    Spoiler


  2. #2
    Member potemkis's Avatar
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    Excellent tutorial. Just one question though: would this work on single-player maps? Is so, I'm assuming that the "Creeps" would attack all factions involved on the map. Maybe this tutorial could help me with my "Random Encounters" creatures...

  3. #3
    Yes, I thought the idea of creeps was that they attacked everyone who bothered them?

    Scripted multiplayer and single players maps are fundamentally the same thing, the only difference is that some SCAR functions cause multiplayer errors.

  4. #4

    Fantastic

    Not sure to post here or on the other place we're talking about this, but just thought i'd comment that this is fantastic and exactly what I was requesting.

    I must admit when I found out that all of my previous ideas of how to do this were dashed (before finding out much about the SCAR stuff etc) I didn't think any of these living world/live action maps could come into existence and just shrugged and gave up, to get such a succint and clear guide so soon after requesting it is brilliant.

    I've read it through a couple of times now and am going to begin to try and have a go at it now for another map, if I can do this (with so little experience in this particular field) I guess anyone can.

    Cheers again
    "Stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." - John Stuart Mill

    "Obscurity is the refuge of incompetence." - Robert Heinlein

    ""A philosopher," said the theologian, "is like a blind man in a darkened room looking for a black cat that isn't there." "That's right," the philosopher replied, "but if he were a theologian, he'd find it." - Julian Huxley

  5. #5
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    oooh...thankyou! ill try to wrap my head around this as i would like to make use of it...if i have any problems i'll be bugging you soon im sure :P

  6. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Modding Senior Member  #6
    Green Grow the Rushes Ira Aduro's Avatar
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    Thanks Fuggles. I know have some nasties guarding the relics on Dead of Winter.

  7. #7

    SS mapping

    This is just a quick one, and slightly stupid i'm afraid.
    I was doing some SS maps a while back, but it was on a different computer and back when it first came out, I took a break to polish my dissertation and graduate etc and then spent the summer travelling, i've COMPLETELY forgotten how to make the DC ME (mod tools 1.2) work basically as an Soulstorm ME? I've looked around and can find nothing but some vagueness about making it a mod, thing is, I did this before and can't remember a thing. Its only really important because Dark Eldar will really make up for most of my 'raiders' or 'patrol' groups on maps, so I kinda need them. I can't believe i'm having to ask this but my brain just isn't firing on this one, i'm sure its VERY simple, can someone just tell me clearly?

    Ta very much

  8. #8
    Member potemkis's Avatar
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    One of the problems posed by creeps is that the creep player must have a HQ present or else Dawn of War has a bad habit of considering them annihilated.

    Therefore when designing a creep map, it's best to have a small hideaway for the creep HQ surrounded by impassible terrain so that players cannot easily get line of sight or shots on the HQ. Note that this means for creeps to work the player must select fixed start positions.

    Now, the slight snag to this plan is brought about by teleporters (in particular the bone singers ENORMOUS range) and in Soulstorm, fliers, which can pop across impassible terrain. So...something must be done.
    Is there any way to put the Creeps HQ under the map, or make it so it can't even be targeted? I suppose you could give it some insanely high amount of HP so that it couldn't be destroyed...

  9. #9

    creep hq

    I don't beleive it is possible to put it under a map etc, and to edit the hitpoints would mean an AE change/or similar change (correct me if i'm wrong) which would mean a full blown mod (albeit small and a 'minimod'). One possible idea would be to give the creep HQ Eldar Webgates making the HQ invisible to all but stealth revealing units (usually commanders etc with low Line of sight).

    I mean, you could just put the HQ somewhere out of reach on the map. The 'dead zone' idea works fine, if you just stick it in a corner it should be fine. But also, fuggles did show you how to make the HQ invulnerable as a point of interest, that woudl be the best idea. Is the problem that your worried the AI may hunt down a creep HQ? i have thought of that, I wonder what would happen if they kept trying to get to the creep HQ instead of attack you etc and just sat there out of reach. I don't know, but i'm hoping to try and find out.

  10. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Modding Senior Member  #10
    Green Grow the Rushes Ira Aduro's Avatar
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    What I did for Dead of Winter is put the map where only flying or Bonesingers could get to. I made the HQ invulnerable and put the killzone around. Well, I should say Fuggles did the last two parts. Anyways, the AI ignores the Creep HQ.

  11. #11
    For what it's worth, you can edit hitpoints through SCAR.

  12. #12
    Member potemkis's Avatar
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    Oh yeah- just re-read that part about making the hq invisible...

  13. #13

    Questions

    Hey fuggles
    Ta for doing the tutorial again, I think I got it. In all honesty I felt like it was looking at an assignment you've read nothing about before and I sat there with 'student block' for sometime, left it for a week, asked my fiance for some advice (she's a computer programmer) and I THINK i've come up with a working map. Oddly when I sat down with a clear head after a couple of days having a break it made perfect sense to me however i'm not sure if i've got it right.

    I have a Demon Prince guarding a relic, its a small map (which could be causing what I think is a problem) and the creepHQ is blocked off by a ring of fire which marks it very clearly. I've attached the map with its corresponding SCAR file, would you mind having a look to see whether its right or not? It seemed to work fine at first, I ran some scouts up and they encountered the demon prince whilst trying to capture the relic and he went for them. Then I kind of 'danced around him' with them quickly and I swear I blinked and he vanished. It looked like he headed back to his base but it was hard to tell. I'm also fairly convinced my deadzone isn't working as I took out the DE and Eldar armies (its a 3 player + creep) map and found Chaos forces coming at me from the fire area. I was just wondering if you could glance at the map and the SCAR quickly and see if it is okay. I've only added a relic guarding unit so its not as large or complex as the your practice SCAR doc.

    I'm beginning to understand the structure now at can draw some nice parallels to earlier stuff i've done so its making sense but if you wouldn't mind checking this over it'd great. I'm sure your quite busy though! Also as I asked earlier, but no one replied, how in very quick simple terms to I get ME to work with SS material? Other than 'make it a mod' which I don't quite get as instructions!

    Cheers


    EDIT:
    I have no idea how to add attachments lol, this is ridiculous! How do I do this? I notice it claims I effectively 'may not' do pretty much anything in the posting rules (including new posts so i'm not sure what that is all about - how can I ask a question without breaking the rules? I'm just curious.)
    Last edited by TheManFromMars; 22nd Oct 08 at 4:47 PM.

  14. #14
    Member Jaguar-Lord's Avatar
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    how in very quick simple terms to I get ME to work with SS material? Other than 'make it a mod' which I don't quite get as instructions!
    There's a tutorials in the maproom section about this :

    http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=184873

    pretty vlear if you ask me.
    As for not making a mod, well....it is up to you but you should know that you may break your DC game by not doing a SS-mapping mod for DC.

    have fun.

    JL

    oh and about sending files and such , better to upload on the web and send a download link to the one you want to send your file to. (fileden, megaupload, mediafire....)

  15. #15
    Member Deunan's Avatar
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    I'm curious here.
    a)Can you make creeps respawn at certain points as long as an lp or something is not captured.
    b) Can you get req or even power from killing creeps?

  16. #16
    a) yes, you would need to check if an egroup was captured and if not check the sgroup count for the creeps. If one was false and the other 0 then respawn at marker
    b) yes, but it's not so easy. You can check how many units the creep player has lost and then compare against how many units each player has killed or you could check to see who has attacked the creep in the last second, or I suppose check who is in the area of the creep. Problem with the under attack function is that it does not trigger if the creep is one shot killed. However, whatever you decide you would then add req or power to the player that killed the creep - Similar to tower defence.

  17. #17
    Member Deunan's Avatar
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    Thanks

    I think I might try this.
    Could be an interesting extra dynamic on some maps.

  18. #18
    Map download not working D:
    (from the first one)

  19. #19
    Member VoIdDrAgOn's Avatar
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    I tried this but instead of having creeps i had a necron tomb in the middle of the map. I don't understand do you just place the HQ object (Monolith, not restored monolith i'm guessing.) Or do you make your own starting location for them? PLS answer as it will help me in about a MILLION map projects!

    ----------

    EDIT: Sorry read it properly, but heres the thing, i want to have the enemy optionally killed to win, as in you have to kill everyone but the necrons (in my case) to win, you can kill the necrons, but they don't fufill the victory criteria. Can you help me here

  20. #20
    Member jONES1979's Avatar
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    Sorry, it is not understandably, what exactly you did and what you are tried to do.

  21. #21
    Member VoIdDrAgOn's Avatar
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    I tried to do this with necrons without scar, for the simple fact that i don't understand it. So what i've done is
    1:Place necrons in the middle of the map
    2. Place a player 5( 4 player map) in an unaccessable area, which is also blocking terrain.
    A restored monolith is placed in the middle of the map with some squads with it.
    Now my problem is if i kill off the squads in the middle of the map, and the monolith, and everyone but the creep player destroyed,how do i get rid of him, any SIMPLE scar, because i'm not to good with it!

  22. #22
    When you only have two teams remaining, kill the necrons? You need to make a version of Util_CheckOneTeamLeft( win_condition ) and make it not check player5 (change "count-1" to "count-2"). Give it a different name and all. I guess that, instead of calling the win condition directly, you just want to kill the necrons? Change "World_SetTeamWin( player_alive, win_condition);" and "World_SetGameOver();" to
    "if( Player_IsAlive(World_GetPlayerAt(count-1)) ) then Player_Kill(World_GetPlayerAt(count-1)) end" and remove the "win_condition" variable passed to the function (or don't, it ends up unused anyway).


    Code:
    function Util_CheckOnePlayerTeamLeft()
    	local count = World_GetPlayerCount();
    
    	local team_first = -1;
    	local player_alive;
    	
    	for i = 0, count-2 --this cycles through all but the last player, your necrons
    	do
    		local player = World_GetPlayerAt(i);
    		
    		if( Player_IsAlive(player) ) then
    			if( team_first == -1 ) then
    				player_alive = player;
    				team_first = Player_GetTeam( player );
    			else
    				local team = Player_GetTeam( player );
    				if( team ~= team_first ) then
    					return false;
    				end
    			end
    		end
    	end
    	
    --	World_SetTeamWin( player_alive, win_condition);
    --	World_SetGameOver();
    -- changed to this
    if( Player_IsAlive(World_GetPlayerAt(count-1)) ) then Player_Kill(World_GetPlayerAt(count-1)) end
    	
    	return true;
    end
    This is a quick 'hack' of an existing function. I don't know that it will actually work for you, though.

  23. #23
    Member Jaguar-Lord's Avatar
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    hmm?

    if all the player but the player 5 is dead then obviously the game is over, isn't it?

    it think he meant : if monolith and necron squad are destroyed then kill the necron player to get rid of him so that the remaining team is ...victorious or the two remaining teams can go on with fighting each others

    assign the necron squads and the monolith you put on the map to a squad group and call it "necron_force", if group count equal zero then player 5 is obliterated from the map. period.


    Code:
    import("ScarUtil.scar")
    import("WXPScarUtil.scar")
    import("WCUtil.scar")
    
    function OnInit()
    
    t_Players = {}
    Rule_AddOneShot(players,0)
    
    Rule_AddInterval(Destroy_cpu_necron, 1)
    
    end
    
    Scar_AddInit(OnInit)
    
    function players()
    local count = World_GetPlayerCount()
    for i = 0, count - 1 do
    j = i + 1
    t_Players[j]= World_GetPlayerAt(i)
    end
    
    
    
    
    function Destroy_cpu_necron()
    
    if SGroup_Count("necrons_force"") == 0 then
    
    Rule_Remove(Destroy_cpu_necron)
    World_SetPlayerLose( t_Players[5], "annihilate" )
    
    
    end
    
    end
    correct me if i'm wrong

    JL

  24. #24
    Hmmm...now I wonder which was wanted. But if player five only has the forces in the middle of the map then that works fine as well, no need for any scar at all.

  25. #25
    Member Jaguar-Lord's Avatar
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    problem arise when you got one player or player team remaining that can't reach the player5 hq and destroy it because it was placed in a remote inaccessible place. this is the only case that need a kill player function creep controling IA are never considered a "player" they are just here to manage the creep because a world owned squad is likely to CTD the game and can't do nothing.

    note : an interesting variant of the creep is to have the creep controled by an enemy or an ally AI....

  26. #26
    Member VoIdDrAgOn's Avatar
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    Cool, thanx, it works well, many thanx.

    Off topic from necrons: Can i do creeps with a neutral computer, e.g. civilians fleeing to a protected bunker, or an old factory with a relic inside, but automated turrets denies a free lunch on the relic by shooting ANYONE OR ANYTHING that comes into the range of the automated turrets. Sorry, i'm trying to make some epic cityfight.

    Sorry for being annoying. Can you also make 2 neutral forces, not players, fighting each other.(e.g., your walking to a strategic point at the other side of the city, but on the way, you see space marines and chaos marines battling it out in the middle of the map. They're fight all game via reinforcements at times or just plain invincible soldiers, but they never redirect fire to your units.) If you want a working example, vanilla DOW, the first mission against eldar, you get to an ork camp, before fufilling the objective of destroying all webway gates, and there are shoota boys and eldar guardians shooting each other at the entrance. You wait for each for to kill each other off, but the units just keep fighting. Even if you help, you can't stop the fight, and they never redirect fire to you. I don't care which method you use, because i've learn't a LITTLE bit about SCAR on youtube. But is this possible?

  27. #27
    Member Jaguar-Lord's Avatar
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    yes all the abov eis possible , you need to define the team staus of each computer,

    if you want a AI controling the turret and shoot at any other player, this AI needs to be set as enemy to each player or player team.
    if you want some neutral unit on the map you can set the controling ai to be neutral. this is define in the setup step

    example : g_Player8 = Setup_Player(7,"civilians", "npc_race", TEAM_NEUTRAL)
    in which : g_player8 = Setup_Player(starting position number(integer),name of the faction ("text"),race name(text), TEAM STATUS)

    having two neutral team is not the same, you 'll have to decide the enemy/ally status of these two team. two neutral team wont fight anything because they are neutral. you can however deicide that in specific areas some squads owned by the same team but by different computer player must fight each other whatever their team status.

    Code:
    function Rule_Setup_Conflict()
    
    		Util_CreateSquadsAtMarkerEx(g_Player7, "sg_cultists", "chaos_squad_cultist", "mk_conflict_place", 1, 6)
    		Util_CreateSquadsAtMarkerEx(g_Player8, "sg_arbites", "witch_hunters_squad_adeptus_arbites_combat_melee", "mk_conflict_place", 1, 4)
    
    		
    		Rule_Check_AddInterval(Rule_Trigger_Conflict,0)
    
    end
    
    function Rule_Trigger_Conflict()
    
    	if SGroup_Exists("sg_cultists") and SGroup_Count(SGroup_FromName("sg_arbites"))>0 then
    
    		Cmd_AttackSGroup("sg_cultists","sg_arbites")
    		Cmd_AttackSGroup("sg_arbites","sg_cultists")
    	end
    end

  28. #28
    Member VoIdDrAgOn's Avatar
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    Jaguar lord, you can't stop helping me, thanks.

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