Hey I'm kinda new to soulstorm (have played plenty of WA and DC though), what are the best builds and strats for playing dark eldar.
I soughta wanna pick DE as my new fav race is that a good idea?
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Hey I'm kinda new to soulstorm (have played plenty of WA and DC though), what are the best builds and strats for playing dark eldar.
I soughta wanna pick DE as my new fav race is that a good idea?
No, DE are probably the weakest race after the raven nerf.I soughta wanna pick DE as my new fav race is that a good idea?
Much more difficult to play than nec or unpatched SoB.
Every DE infantry units are expensive and frail.
( mandrake and warriors are wearing a medium armor, scourge got an HM one but only 320 unupgradable hp etc..)
Moreover, all of them are CC units, or attack at short range (except scourge).
You have no turret or mines, and your building have low HP.
Your builders cost 75req, and die so easily, that you cant repair anything in a fight, unlike any other races.
I don't normally say this, but please, ignore him. :P
DE are one of the stronger races at the moment, at least in the top 3 or 4. Most people will tell you to do a Dark Foundry (DF) build and spam jetbikes and hellions ASAP. While it does work (Slightly less so since the patch, though not at all because of the, uh, raven nerf?), it can get a little boring at time.
Warriors and the Archon can be amazingly powerful in T1, and scourges and wyches offer plenty of reason to go T2. Just take care to use powers and abilities well and don't just charge everything in like you're playing Space Marines.
If you want to see some replays (Mostly SS.1.0) check the battle archives. There's some good stuff in there, some of it mine if I can be vain for a moment :P
I mean Jetbike nerf, not raven one, my bad sorry.
If your opponent is a snail, i guess they can.Warriors and the Archon can be amazingly powerful in T1
Seriously, except against IG, DE warriors wont kill a lot of thing at T1. Orks will mass and outnumber you, eldar will spam DR, Tau will outrange you, whereas SM will laugh and crush you with tacticals.
Once you hit T2, warriors become a bit more useless.
Nothing will change against eldars, tau and orks.
IG, and SM will get GL/HB, and you will be definitively screwed.
If you want some advices:
- dont focus on warriors, make only one or two squad of them.
Dont expect to do sgnifiant damage with them, and use terrofex nades to decrease your opponent's sight.
Especially against nec scarabs, or Tau pathfinders/vespid, if you are able to approach them.
- snort drugs
- always up your drakes with invis, poisonned blades and daemonic knifes.
- snort drugs.
- dont make more than one jetbike.
Use it for decap instead of fight.
- snort drugs, until you get an army of junkies.
You cant read them if you have download the patch.If you want to see some replays (Mostly SS.1.0) check the battle archives. There's some good stuff in there, some of it mine if I can be vain for a moment :P
Last edited by gentil_bibi; 30th Oct 08 at 1:46 AM.
Before I make an idiot of myself, I will point out I don't have the SS1.1 patch yet, but I believe the only significant changes from the DE point of view were a slight Reaver build time nerf and a cheaper HofB. Otherwise, no major nerfs?
And, because I don't have the patch yet and can't make or watch any replays with it, I can only recommend 1.0 stuff. If he only just picked up SS, he may not have patched (Though the version tags are there) and I thought a 1.0 replay offer might be better than nothing.
DE Warriors have insane dps and nigh-on Fleet of Foot speed (Even through cover). Used properly, they will kill alot of things. Ork masses can be danced (If you outsquad or run through cover or use something to disrupt them or the haemonculus ability or the Archon ability), FW can be meleed and tacticals can and will be outshot (Again, going from 1.0 experience here. One of the replays I put up was DE warriors > SM tac mass). Eldar Reapers... Yeah, I don't like reapers. Up against Eldar? Hellions are your friend.f your opponent is a snail, i guess they can.
Seriously, except against IG, DE warriors wont kill a lot of thing at T1. Orks will mass and outnumber you, eldar will spam DR, Tau will outrange you, whereas SM will laugh and crush you with tacticals.
Yes, in T2, warriors do become somewhat less helpful. While putting them in raiders does help, it's probably better to move on to scourges and wyches. That said, they are far from helpless. For a start, did you know that terrorfex grenades negate range? And that units meleed can't use those special weapons? And that Warriors with poison blades will outmelee Tacs, let alone guardsmen?
Out of idle curiousity, what do you propose for a DE T1? Other than changing race, that is...
Dark Eldar are one of the harder races to play. Their not an attack-move race, as the phrase goes. If you want to win, you will have to outplay your opponent. Which, incidentally, is how it should be. DE gives you plenty of abilities and the tools you can use to turn armies into souls to harvest. You just have to know how to use them.
What you recommend against a GK Ivan build?
Once upon a time there was a race called Eldar that was supposed to be a glass cannon army that depended on careful management in order to stay alive and succed, but in turn could be one of the msot powerful races in DOW... what happened is what we see today.
Now DE in my opinion IS a bunch of squishy glass cannons that are EXTREMALLY hard to play, but they are OUTSTANDING in what they can do, taken they are managed with extreme carefullness and abilities are triggered in JUST the exact moment.
Exactly the reason why I play them now.
No, they're not a free win for orks, much less for anything else, but you can't charge them in and expect to win. They're a hit and run race that depends on picking your oponent off a piece at a time, finally taking him out completely.
From my experiance it is very important to have a full archon command squad as soon as possible, as well as 2 drakes and at least one warior squad, that absolutely HAS to survive. The archon has the potential to tie 2 squads at the same time for a a second or two thanks to his stun ability. He can deal damage to the other squad with poisoned blades while drakes run after other 2 squads and wariors are helping the archon in killing what he's chopping up. It's good to have a second squad of wariors, but it's not required as you may try to tech up to T2 and get a MENDATORY squad of scourges, afterwards trying to get Wytches up to buff your shooty units.
Not many DE fights end in T1 as you (at least from my earlier experiances) need the wych bunch for the DPS buff in order to effectively take down a base while taking care of anything that jumps out.
Also, you can't give up just becouse you lost 70% of your army that was all wariors and drakes, you CAN build up and crush a bigger force than you, it's dificult but can be done.
One final word, Archon's confusion spell IS your friend, and Wytch's buff IS a friend of anything that shoots!
More or less, I find Eldar not being able to win with DE same as SOB can't win with Eldar :P It is doable but, DAMN xD
(Yes... I absolutely LOVE Dark Eldar in DOW... that is, if you haven't found that out by now from my post haha)
Steam name: Akagi_Ryu
Ruined:FYI on the bug fixing front a Steam patch can be applied in a matter of hours, most of which involve making coffee, chatting about the latest season of Survivor and pressing the upload button.
I won't pretend to be an expert on it, but most of the time I've seen it it's involved a fair few scouts and a quick T2 to get those GK out. If you can, cripple the bugger in T1. If he can't get his GK out or only gets them out alone while you have a whole army to beat on the smarmy bastard, then it's win win.What you recommend against a GK Ivan build?
If you can't beat him in T1, the I recommend wyches and scourges, or the archons crucible of malediction, which gives you free reign to wipe them from existence. A combination would be nice, but otherwise... Get your scourges to start blowing them away, get a wyche squad to drug them as they run by to melee the GK (Always try and drug your scourges... works wonders!) and get the rest of your army to focus on the rest of his army. If you can, take down everything else shooting at you first, as those GK are damnably resilient and your firepower may be best spent taking care of other threats first.
Warriors weak? They put out impressive damage. It's only their range and low-hp that are causing problems. You'll need a lot of micro to manage them well.
Originally Posted by chelovek_veliki
Foolish noob.
Tau > DE >/= Orks > Eldar > Everything else
That's right. Second most powerful race out there and only beaten by pr0 Tau. Let me give you a hint on this one.
1. Start game
2. Press B
3. Press D
4. ???
5. Profit
Gentil Bibi sounds like a QS player or a total noob.
DE are extremely powerful race, a simple build of 2 mandrakes and 2 warriors is enough to beat most SM and Chaos builds.
Yes, DE units are fragile but that's why people use a thing called MICRO. Two squads of DE warriors can kill a FC quite quickly. Every DE unit is a DPS powerhouse.
DE rarely win wars of attrition I find, its about picking your moments.
Archon is extremely powerful, his spells are awesome (animus vitae and Malediction). Combine him with Haemoculus and his torture amp and whatever you have in your army and you will shred the enemy to pieces.
Don't worry about DE not having any turrets or mines, you get access to the Slave pits and LP's can be upgraded with Dark Lances. The beauty of this is, with the upgrade they still fire anti-inf as well as anti-vehicle.
If I have one gripe, is that their one siege unit, the Talos is pretty expensive.
Well im glad de got nerfed a litte they still hard as hell to beat but i love that dias nerf. When I use to see the dias I use to yell " holy shit its the damn Dias O god no!" But now I just think " o they got the dias " then i just blow it up lol. I really wish de warriors got something I still dont respect them as a unit why waste money on them when u can just get bikes? or screw bikes when u can just get mandrakes? One things for sure De take time to master since u want to make them your new race . De have all the tools to make them uber its just up to you to know when to strike,run,jumpin,soulpower, and run i know i said run already but de run alot lol .
Look like you are the one.Gentil Bibi sounds like a QS player or a total noob. [...] DE are extremely powerful race, a simple build of 2 mandrakes and 2 warriors is enough to beat most SM and Chaos builds.
Skilled players wont mass marines, and dont have any use of FC against DE.
They will get nades, flamers and/or snipe. Then your drakes, and warriors will bit the dust quickly.
Moreover DE may cap and decap fast, an early turret will be a nightmare if you have'nt build your archon.
It s obvious that you dont know of what you are talking about. Try them in Auto before posting here.
Last edited by gentil_bibi; 31st Oct 08 at 1:09 PM.
Won't mass marines? I've only seen that happen far too often.Look like you are the one.
Skilled players wont mass marines, and dont have any use of FC against DE.
They will get nades, flamers and/or snipe. Then your drakes, and warriors will bit the dust quickly.
Moreover DE may cap and decap fast, an early turret will be a nightmare if you have'nt build your archon.
It s obvious that you dont know of what you are talking about. Try them in Auto before posting here.
Either way if you payed attention to what he was saying he was speaking about players that build a FC. Naturally you can't use the same tactic for everything.
Stop talking out of your ass. Skilled players will attempt to mass marines in order to counter the inevitable jetbikes that will rip everything you suggested apart.
Dark Eldar weak after the Jetbike nerf?
Bull. They got what, a slightly delayed build-time by a whole 2 seconds? Bah.
Dark Eldar Jetbikes are still imba.
If your on a map with no real cover, you're still totally screwed against them.
Even with cover, Drakes and Hellions will chase you out of it.
Gentil some of your advice sounds hmmmm wrong did you say Skilled players wont mass marines!!!!!!!!? WHAT ?
Yes i did, and i will repeat it: Skilled players wont make mass marines against a DE.
Let me explain you how play SM players with some common sense:
1) HQ= 1 scout
2) SM rush with scout.
a) There is a dark foundry, then mass marines.
b) There is an Hall of blood, then switch on flamers, nades and/or snipes.
Start on a mass marines BO without knowing if the DE player start on bike or not is STUPID.
Why would there be a HoB?
Gentil, a lot of people will say DarkFoundry build is better than Hall of Blood, and they are probably right, but Hall of Blood is STILL powerful enough to beat lots of match ups. What are your snipers going to do when there is cloaked drakes running around? What are your snipers going to do to the Archon, who being a commander unit, doesn't drop like a fly to sniper fire, will use Animus Vitae on fleeing fragile scouts and kill them? Hall of Blood is an easier match for SM to deal with but not by much.
By the way, do you ALWAYS wait until you get a scout into the enemy base before building your first structure or additional troops? That's possibly giving your opponant anything upto a 5-10 second headstart depending on the map.
By the way, one of the buffs for DE was reducing the build time or cost for HOB, am I right or wrong?
@Flagg: You're right.
What I'm finding especially amusing is that Gentil's arguing as if he's the sole expert of the game when people like ViS and especially KotCR are in here (Sorry Flagg, don't know you too well.).
Also now Gent what are these SM players not massing against? I can see them doing those upgrades against infantry but what's keeping them from simply massing against a Jetbike spam? What's that, nothing? I can only wonder why, it's not as if flamers/snipers/grenades are useless against said bikes. Oh wait they are, how about that.
This is hardly even about being a good player, what you're arguing about is common sense that the average player should have.
Skilled players wont make mass marines against a DE.Hmmm...Let me explain you how play SM players with some common sense:
...
a) There is a dark foundry, then mass marines.
More on topic, while I'm all for arguing against the people who stick to the same old thoughts, particularly ViS and his anti-HofB oneliners, they're pretty much on the ball here. DE are an extremely powerful race and, in most cases, can beat SM given equal skill. A marine mass can be beaten fairly easily with hellions and jetbikes, or even with warriors and the archon. Snipers can be beaten with either build provided the DE player knows what they're doing.
@ Flag - Yeah, a cost reduction on the HofB, making those builds even more useful. Only 25 req I think, but still enough to make a bit of a difference.
I'm so anti-HoB because ANY competitive player worth his salt won't touch it unless they're playing for lulz.
And as much as I love how you continually sprout your one-line posts for this without any justification other than "Cauz I said so lulz," I just can't buy it.
HofB builds can be just as competitive as DF builds in many situations. If your not willing to put the effort in to try it, that's fine. Just don't run around acting as though it's gospel.
SM will get a probe, and they will hit the ground aswell.[...]What are your snipers going to do when there is cloaked drakes running around?
They will switch target, and dance with him.What are your snipers going to do to the Archon, who being a commander unit, doesn't drop like a fly to sniper fire, will use Animus Vitae on fleeing fragile scouts and kill them?
Do you really think that your opponent will be enough stupid to fire on Archon?
I would not have any problem if they were.
Nope, because there is not any pause in your BO.By the way, do you ALWAYS wait until you get a scout into the enemy base before building your first structure or additional troops? That's possibly giving your opponant anything upto a 5-10 second headstart depending on the map.
You still produce your tactical, but you dont reinforce them.
IF DE start on a bike BO, you reinforce tactical, and produce more squads.
If not, you keep your tactical squad, and switch on armory.
It s as easy as falling off a log.
If those "experts" skill, can be summed up to mass jetbike, in fact, i m not one of them.What I'm finding especially amusing is that Gentil's arguing as if he's the sole expert of the game when people like ViS and especially KotCR are in here (Sorry Flagg, don't know you too well.).
Last edited by gentil_bibi; 1st Nov 08 at 7:35 AM.
If the archon runs out from the fog first, the snipers will fire on him without you having a say in the matter, short of some godly micro. More, odds are the scouts won't get more than one shot off before the archon and whatever troops he has (be they drakes or meleeing warriors) are stabbing at them with very pointy blades.They will switch target, and dance with him.
Do you really think that your opponent will be enough stupid to fire on Archon?
I would not have any problem if they were.
How do you propose to dance units with a setup time from a commander unit with a chaining ability and two of the fastest units in the game? Warriors themselves move almost at fleet of foot speed and, with poisoned blades, will beat those scouts down like there's no tomorrow. With the scouts set-up time, they can also stop and shoot fairly often, and their DPS isn't a laughing matter.
It might take a bit of micro, but if the DE player can manage that, I don't like the SM's odds.
That, at least, I can agree with.If those "experts" skill, can be summed up to mass jetbike, in fact, i m not one of them.
"Experts" play to win. Playing to win involves employing the most powerful options available.
Explain to me why almost EVERY single player competing in ConflictX used Tau.
For Gods sake, calm down Vis. Every one of your posts just seems to ooze rage and anger.
I'm just telling the facts. You can choose whether or not to believe it.
No, what you do is often enter a thread, leave one sentence replies, and should ANYONE dare question your statement you just turn rude.
Not every thread is about how to beat a 1500 player you know.
Thank you Flagg. Exactly my thoughts.
And this thread was about how to start off with DE, seeing as the OP was someone just getting into them. I would wholeheartedly encourage everyone just starting out with DE to at least try learning the HoB builds and how to use them well, rather than spawning another generation of players who do nothing but Jetbike spam.
People are asking for the BEST tactics/strats for Dark Eldar. Not the most fun or least cheap. I'm giving that to them.
So if someone had asked for SoB strats a few days back you would have told them to research blessed armour?
Jetbikes aren't always the best answer, either. Often Hellions are better, sometimes even HoB builds (DE mirror, I'm looking at you!).
On a side note, can you perhaps give us a nice description of what you would do then for a few common match ups? Perhaps even managing to break your streak of oneliners?
Considering the fact that DF builds aren't bugs, no. I would not have suggested that.
And hell, what is there to say? There are basically two variations of the build. 2x Drakes, DF, gen, LP, Hellions + lab, moar LPs and a VERY similar one which involves getting the Hellions Succubus asap to decloak Rangers.
As i told previously, Sm will build 1 or 2 SM squads, it s threatning enough to keep your archon busy.How do you propose to dance units with a setup time from a commander unit with a chaining ability and two of the fastest units in the game?
So will you agree that DE warriors are weak?People are asking for the BEST tactics/strats for Dark Eldar. Not the most fun or least cheap. I'm giving that to them.
*sigh*
Yes, and the DE player will happily oblige by building nothing but an Archon. He won't have drakes or warriors, no, just an Archon! Probably won't reinforce him with incubi or capture SP's either, just try and beat your hq to death with the Archon right from the start!As i told previously, Sm will build 1 or 2 SM squads, it s threatning enough to keep your archon busy.
Again, listen. If he does not have drakes with poisoned blades, which he should, he will have warriors with poisoned blades. Warriors can and will outshoot Tacs (Provided they aren't too outnumbered) and both units will out-melee these tacs. No, you won't be able to dance, as Warriors are one of the fastest units in the game and scout snipers have a set-up time. If you're trying to dance with SM squads, the warriors can just outshoot you. Unless you plan to run and hide behind a turret somewhere and surrender map control, you're not going to have much luck trying to run away from a DE. Also, the Archon can tie up a SM squad or keep it running while using his animus vitae on a scout squad, effectively killing off at least part of your expensive army.
No, I will not. ViS might, but ViS seems to think that the only viable builds are 1337 Tau and JB spam. Warriors can be deadly and I laugh at anyone who says they are useless.So will you agree that DE warriors are weak?
Alright, i doubt i will be able to change your mind about DE.
You seems to be convinced that a warrior BO are effective, which i doubt.
However i would be too glad if you can show me that i am wrong.
Can you prove what you said?
Could you post a replay against a "good" SM player (at least 1200, 1300 would be better)?
I wonder what the original poster has really gleaned from this thread...
I never said Warriors are weak. They're just weaker than DF builds.
Not unless your willing to accept SS1.0 replays. As I said, I haven't got around to patching yet on account of being really super busy. Having not played for a month or two, it would also take more time than I have to remember how to play properly.Could you post a replay against a "good" SM player (at least 1200, 1300 would be better)?
That said, if you look through Gamereplays or something you should find at least 1 or 2. I'd hope so, though I haven't looked. I'll get around to patching one day and then I'll see what I can do, but it won't be for another month or so, so don't hold your breath.
Maybe not to start such general threads,I wonder what the original poster has really gleaned from this thread...
Thanks for such enthusiastic debate
On the dancing note bibi it just sounds a little far fetched.
Anyway, any more helpful and a little less argumentative oppinions?
Fetched? Really? I guess you should understand what i mean, once you will have to deal with sniper scouts.
Moreover, you should have noticed what Packy wrote:
If it was really so easy, why would he need so much time to get back into the swing of things?Having not played for a month or two, it would also take more time than I have to remember how to play properly.
I m not an expert, and i will probably never reach the top 100.
However, i talk about my own experience (more than 3000 games played since DoW), and unlike Packy i have' nt stop playing yet.
Playing 3,000 games isn't so impressive if you win 500 of them
A tac mass will pound a Warrior mass if it isn't micro'd well enough, due to low HP. However add 2 drakes to the equation to tie up 2 tacs (I'm thinking 3 tacs + FC for this articial scenario) is 2 squads tied up leaving you're 3 odd Warrior squads to batter the last one, or the FC. If the FC tries to CC you, dance. That leaves 2 Warrior squads against 1 tac, IF he has 3 and if he does it wont be fully reinforced and will be vunerable to 2 warriors. Once you've deal with the tacs focus on the FC with the warriors hey presto you kicked ass.
Knife King of Doltland
I'm not surprised. Anything within three feet of you seems to end up full of knife shaped holes.
Having not played for a month or two, it would also take more time than I have to remember how to play properly.I guess that really depends on how much time you think I have. But, honestly, I'm not here to make excuses. I'm just saying, I haven't patched, I'm not likely to soon and even if I did I wouldn't be kicking the butt of 1400 people (Assuming Auto is working properly) straight off the bat.If it was really so easy, why would he need so much time to get back into the swing of things?
I think we've pretty much said all the important things, mixed in with a bit of friendly banter and the odd cuss word. That said, if you have any more specific questions, feel free to fire away. We'll try not to fight over the answer for too long...Anyway, any more helpful and a little less argumentative oppinions?
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