[SS 1.2] Necron Warriors - The Crux of the Necron Problem

[Pseudonymn]

Cat Dance, what are you talking about? They have the worst reinforcement time of any faction! No one takes as long to fully reinforce their basic infantry squads to full as the Cron do, even with obelisks. With a full complement of obelisks (or in combination with a CP or two), the best they can manage is 16.5 seconds. That's double or worse just about every other faction's reinforcement time.

Look, people, nobody wants to see the Necron given the ability to go on their lolparades again. But then again, that was only ever a problem in early tiers and, especially, on smaller maps where requisition resources were scarce for other factions in opposition to the Necronomy. Even with the proposed changes, by the time T4 rolls around, people should have enough forces and tech on hand to put the brakes on the 'Crons NW Walk of Doom and stop the lolparade before it gets to their base... and, if they played it out well, still be in a good position to send reprisals when the dust settles.

Asking for a moderate buff to their T4 through researches that only become available at that time, at a further cost, is not going to improve their ability to gain these early game "easy wins" that people are so afraid of.

[slay2rr]

Pseudonymn, crons get time bonus when they build listening posts(or whatever it's called). Thats why necrons need some map control to speed things up. Other factions units like IG, SoB, CSM, SM also need time to upgrade heavy weapons, which take time as well.

Give NW +4 range upon building energy core, so they can have 25(normal) range.

[Cat_Dance]

Lol i have no experience playing them? Yet you're claiming their early tiers are fine in competitive play, but their lategame is poor... They are considered a weaker race because they get hit hard by other race in t1-t3, not because their t4 is lacking, seeing as t4 rarely comes into play in an actually competitive game.

Their t4 has some of the best disruption in the game (mono obviously) keeping groups of infantry on their asses. Lord destroyers can use stasis field to freeze units. Solar pulse+chrono+Fo's disable firing squads. TS's can manufacture troops right behind your advance. There is no real reason why you shouldnt be able to get into firing range if you are t4. Seriously, consider all of a race's abilities before you go calling their t4 weak because you think their infantry isn't good enough.

Not saying that cron isn't a weaker race, just that their weaknesses are in the early game. Slight buffs in t1-2 would bring them in line, their t4 is fine.

[Gannadene]

Many games never move beyond T3 to begin with. I rarely hear Necrons accused of being weak in T1-3. I hear complaints of their economy being weak, to which I once agreed. The 1.2 buff has alleviated that to some degree. So, no, I don't agree that their primary weakness is in T1-3. That would indicate that their strength is in T4, which it isn't. Not a lot changes in T4 aside from the Monolith. Most of the upgrades that make a T4 infantry force what it is are available throughout T1-3.

If anything, they're weak throughout all tiers. I have no problem with how Necrons are balanced in T1-3, but they don't stack up to most T4 forces without a lot of good fortune in using abilities. Most of it comes down to whether your opponent messes up, rather than how well you played. That shouldn't be the case, especially not with Necrons - the race that allegedly "steamrolls" with a very weak T1 start and finishes as one of the most powerful races.

[PandaMine]

@kotCR

You are the one comparing them to elite infantry with 1k HP per squard when I have blatantly shown that Necrons in DC 1.2 are no where as near as powerful as elite infantry with 1k HP per squad member and 25 range. You're complaint about buffing warriors HP is, that they like elites, would do things such as walk through bases ignoring focus fire (which isn't gonna happen in T4, you can't ignore T4 focus fire) and start raping buildings.

There are however numerous reasons why warriors cannot do this and thus why even with 1k hp per squard member are not comparible to elites
1. They have very low morale and no method of increasing/replenishing morale or reducing morale damage. All of the other elite units have this in one form or another
- Kroots have 1.2k Morale, incredibly high for any unit
- Warp Beast Packs have tame beast, as well as combat drugs
- PSM are morale immune
- Ogyrins can be attached with priests + commies
- Terminators have 750 morale, recieve less morale damage and can be attached to FC/Chap/Librarian to boost morale
- Nob Squads can be attached to Big Mek or Warboss to increase moral regen, orks also get a huge morale bonus in general from mob bonus
- Howling Banshees dont get any morale bonus's (generally because eldar units don't have high morale) however they have war cry which does serious morale damage. They are uncapped too
- Seer Council again have 1.2k morale (also have commander armor +conceal). They also embolden, which further boosts morale
- SrS likewise can have commanders attached to boost morale recovery
What do warriors have?
NOTHING
The mere fact that they only have 400 morale which doesn't scale and crons have NO abilities/spells etc etc to boost morale regen/amount means that not only do warriors have crappy morale to start with, when broken is there isn't anything you can do apart from waiting

This COMPOUNDED with Warriors completely horrible movespeed means that they are going to take an incidious amount of punishment. If a unit moves as slow as a dead turtle I god damn expect it to have a large amount of HP to make up for it. Necron Warriors are not PSM's, they cannot run around with their 14 movespeed doing hit and run attacks. Warriors cannot retreat at all, they are basically forced to stay in battle because at least that way you would damage the opponent instead of dying trying to run, where as almost every other squad apart from SrS have high movespeed to move in and out. Likewise the crons have no snares (grenades, disruption apart from Mono, missiles etc etc) to hamper movement of opposing units for their warriors to chase, the only thing is SF. It is very EASY to run from a cron army, not the same can be said about other races

For all these reasons they are much less effective then elites, and for the same reasons there should be NO issue buffing their HP to 1.k with a T4 upgrade (where many other races get such HP elites in T2/T3).

Necron Warriors has so many god damn weakness it isn't funny, buffing their HP up to 1000 is not going to suddenly move them up to par with elites. They were not even that powerful in DC 1.2, the problem with DC 1.2 was the necronomy, wraiths, FO and NL. Necron Warriors were just seen as powerful because ontop of what all the other strengths necrons had it was unbearable.

[Old Painless]

Necrons are not forced to stay in a fight they are losing, they can all teleport out of there in one go, Immortals were added to the list of units which could teleport to make this a more easy to use tactic i believe.

Necron warriors were seen as powerful because you could have a screen full of highly durable units on constant overwatch.

They don't need any more HP, with the lords tricks they just need a little more range to start doing the business in a fight as they walk to the enemy a bit sooner.

Your lord teleports straight in which takes zero time, you use SF etc and teleport in your flayed with again takes zero time, then your warriors are just about in range as they started walking in as your lord chose where to teleport. All they need is a bit more range to deal damage a tad earlier as they walk in and make the period of time they are doing damage for a little longer as they enemy runs away, IF you got it right.

If your not using the Lords powers your going to lose any fight you go into.

If you don't bring at least 1 Flayed Ones squad your just making it more difficult for yourself than it needs to be.

[PandaMine]

Necron Summoning has a cooldown, and it can't really be used to re-engange an enemy (by retreating I mean retreating and re-engaging)

Necron Warriors were seen as powerful because they had to much HP in TIER 1-3. This was true, and it was nerfed

Im talking specifically about T4, where Crons do not have the HP needed to do what they need to do. I know the lords teleport with SF etc etc, that however means your army is over reliant on your NL (which is not a good thing). Yes you are supposed to have FO's/Immortals in your force, but as it stands FO almost die instantly to anything in T4 (and FO deep strike is not instant) and Immortals are just AV.

The big bulk of your army are necron warriors, always has been and will be. If the majority of your army can't do what they are supposed to do then you have big problems and relying on relic units/NL is not a good balance argument.

As it stands, Warriors already have shitty re-inforce time, and crons have been nerfed so badly in T1-T3 that they deserve to rape any army tenfold in T4. Currently IG and orks outclass in them in every area

Warriors desperatley need their HP buffed to 1k, range increased to 25 and possibly a slight re-inforce time buff (or fix the bloody res'sing issue) JUST for T4. This can be done with one final upgrade of DF

[edbop]

honestly mate they don't. painless is probably right about a slight increase in range but that is it. i don't understand why so many nec players seem to think the nw spam should be a viable tactic. use the rest of your possible army. there aren't many troops that are as viable in t4 as they are in t0.

[PandaMine]

The fact that warriors are the only things useful against INF and the only usable unit that crons have in T4?

Crons are supposed to be less versatile, thats how they are in TT. In TT the majority of their army is warriors, backed with immortals/FO and their hovercrafts. Same thing goes for SS.

Unless you want to revert back to the old days where you want to buff FO so much that they become imba again so they are usable in T4 apart from their morale damage and tying up ranged units in melee for the limited time they can do it

[MaddoxX]

in T4 FO could have an upgrade that enable them to have a one time jump/teleport of short range that deal morale damage, this will make them viable in higher Tiers.

[Old Painless]

Woah there PandaMine, lets not go down that road just yet.

NW are not the only good necron unit versus infantry and there certainly not the only useable unit in T4!

Heavy destroyers have absolute buttsekks with vehicles and buildings, destroyers are pretty damn good against infantry, all the other types of troops are a little more specialised and need a bit more thought at to when best to use them but Flayed are rediculously good versus infantry, drop 2 squads in an infantry mass, have a cup of tea and use some stalling tactics while you wait 20 seconds, then watch as the entire enemy army gets red markers round them and they all break.

Voila, your enemy now only does 10% or so damage to your units, and you call that bad ? That's a HUGELY powerful tool.

You have lord destroyers which can freeze multiple enemy squads or even your own to protect them if needed, you can nab enemy tanks and iirc the time needed to posses has been shortened, pariahs seem to live forever on overwatch, still even though they have been nerfed.

Its not all bad you know.

Even attack scarabs which are only good versus air units now still rape the absolute snot out of any other flyer !

If your trying to use the same old 'wall of NW' tactics you will fail.

[corncobman]

Just increase the range of the Warriors weapons via research. That's all that's needed IMO.

[MaddoxX]

At higher Tier mass HQ if you have a standard or more army on field this will make them all like 2* hp.

[Gannadene]

In my experience, Warriors have more use when you do not build Pariahs (which eat up 4 pop in an already high pop army list). That allows you to skip an Immortal and split the difference between a Warrior and FO squad. Contrary to what may seem conventional logic, the extra 8 Warriors and FOs make a world of difference, despite losing the great capabilities of your Pariahs.

It's important when balancing races not to forget that the differences in power can be altered by the liberal use of abilities. However, it should also not be forgotten that abilities do not make a race. Arguing that Solar Pulse or Phase Shifter, or some other active ability, hands down, allows Warriors to operate without regret is simply wrong. You can only learn this through experience using the race.

As far as range goes, you can go that route, but it tends to shift Necrons more into the realm of a normal race. It goes against their thematics. You can easily skip this with no argument from me. I'd more than welcome Necrons actually being able to trade fire with Tau griefers, or especially Eldar players with FoF. If an Eldar player decides to snipe at your forces and run away when you choose to chase after them, turning and firing at you the entire way, there's no way for you to counter it. Warriors aren't fast enough, and they don't have the range. They also don't have the regeneration to restore the minor health they're losing in the process. The only thing you can do is huddle in your base, or try to ignore their forces and assault their LPs. It's quite frustrating having no options to chase down griefers, in this case. I'm sure someone has an inane "solution" to this, though. Someone always does.

[edit]: As far as Destroyers go, remember that you aren't playing with a standard economy. At 250 energy, pumping out Destroyers, especially if your opponent has fast vehicle-counter units on the field, can be a death sentence for your economy. They're a risk to produce, given how arduous the Necron economy is, as far as slow teching goes.

[santiago4ever]

Necron Warriors are fine, you're just using your NL the wrong way :P Don't get solar pulse unless you absolutely have to get it, wait and get the most awesome NL ability instead, the one that will make your opponents whole army break and run straight into your NW mass \o/

This is if you're going to NW heavy lategame, if not you might want to try other venues. Solar Pulse is for if you think you can push the advantage in early T2. You can also skip phase shift if you play cautiously with your NL and go for something else instead.

[SubakuGaara]

bump. NWs aren't weak at all in 1v1 play. Focus on the Nec Lord using his abilities to support them.

[slay2rr]

People saying Necrons are weak need to use different units at T3-T4, Pariahs are awesome, they do take 4 cap but they have insanely fast reinforce time, good damage and that hp decrease ablility, plus they have a huge 5hp regen. Use destroyers and hvy destroyers, use other infantry other than NW, NW are not elites, the first 3 are free for goodness sake, how imba do you want them to be?

[PandaMine]

Problem with destroyers is as Gannadene has mentioned, they kill your economy considering the amount of power you are getting and the DPS return's you get.

Destroyers aren't actually that useful in heavy full squad clashes that you find in T4, for 250 power you are getting 63.0/126.0/105.0/94.5/73.5/52.5 DPS against infantry. In comparison, a full squad of warriors has 92.7/216/155.4/139.1/108/77.59 DPS against infantry, thats quit a big difference (this is even after the damage nerf).

Destroyers also get instantly raped by AV due to their shitty HP

Pariahs although great, against INF they don't actually do a lot of damage because they end up doing so much disruption that it takes them like a year to kill a single inf squad. I have seen 2 GM squad kill a pariah squad because it took the pariahs like 40 seconds to kill the 1 GM squad because they disrupted and then they have to run to where the GM's got disrupted to and repeat.

Granted they are very useful against tanks/ubers/buildings but definitely not as useful against INF compared to the other CC specialists mentioned before

@slayer

Im sorry but currently crons get raped by most well played races in T4, why don't you actually try playing them against a person?

[Pseudonymn]

Someone mentioned Attack Scarab swarms earlier and, I know it might seem off topic to bring them up again but, I was wondering if anyone else feels that making them air-to-air only was an uncalled for nerf? Was it even intended that way, or was that just IL fudging things up again?

They were great, though expensive, in a pinch when you needed to tie up a ranged squad and you had nothing else to fall back on while your NWs closed into range. Does anyone else feel that moving Scarabs back to ground ops, as well as air, might help spread the load a little bit and make NWs a little more viable?

How imba do you want them to be?

Nobody, but nobody, has been suggesting that we make NWs IMBA in the slightest. But neither should they be left UP as they are in late tier games. The pendulum swings both ways and has to come to rest at some sort of middle ground eventually.

[Gannadene]

Scarab swarms were never exactly super useful, although I dare you to find a SS replay in which someone uses them productively, if at all. Their very existence is a joke.

I've found people are incredibly gunshy about buffing Necrons at all due to DC. It's understandable, if not frustrating.

[PandaMine]

The main problem is not necessarily that people are gushy about Necrons due to DC 1.2, the BIGGEST problem is that they do not know where the imbalance lies.

Its very easy for a few major imbalances to make it "seem" that the whole race is entirely imbalanced, which is quite wrong.

Necron Warriors were never imbalanced to start off with (possibly slightly in earlier tiers with their high HP, that was however fixed). It was just when crons sent did constant FO and Wraith spam along with NL to obliterate your army and then you found yourself with warriors in your base that you can't kill because your army just died

This is the exact same thing that happened to BroadSides, in my opinion they are currently one of the worst AV's, especially after their 33% damage nerf you need to spend like 6 or so squad cap to get any decent AV. Thats not even taking into account how immobile they are, extremely vulnerable to ranged fire (such as from HB or plasma) and have an enourmous set up time. The only saving grace that tau has if they go on the Kauyon path is cuda's, as SS in T3/T4 only last long enough to use EMP on tanks in long battles.

Everyone was however making the same complaints that they are currently doing with Cons that Broadsides do too much damage, what they don't realise is if their army wasn't wiped by FW's in Tier 1/2 then broadsides wouldn't be a problem at all

[Rotlung]

Admittedly, the broadsides aren't all that powerful, with the main damage dealt by fire warriors. However, it does get disconcerting when you see one member of a squad fall each time a broadside unleashes its railguns.

Perhaps Flayed Ones and Wraiths should get nerfs and the Warriors get buffs?

[Orgad_E]

SS in T3/T4 only last long enough to use EMP on tanks in long battles.

thank god someone said that...

people always say how imba the Tau av is due to SS being invisible anti vehicle. the only thing SS are good for after T2 is emp... and now that got nerfed... and so did the cuda D:

[bman3k]

A 10% damage nerf is nothing

[Rotlung]

If I remember correctly, the nerf they got was only damage against commanders...

[Compeador]

I take offense to the statement that wraiths aren't useful. Wraiths are probably the most useful, most spammy, and most effective melee unit in the game, especially for cost.

Also, if your necron warriors are failing hard in lower tiers, it's because your unit mix and necron lord are not being used very well.

Also don't forget that necron gets free units through all tiers, and res orb and tomb spyders enhance that by a great magnitude.

Everything necron has is good, there's really nothing in the race that's not useful or not competitive, and they're pretty decently balanced (besides wraith spam) in my opinion. That's one reason the only balance change for them in 1.1 was the global econ upgrades.

[mlai]

Then how do you "top players" explain how even in DC 1.2, Necrons were considered OP in 1v1 but were considered UP in team games?

Doesn't that mean Necrons even in DC 1.2, weren't powerful in late game? If even OP DC 1.2 Necrons are weak in late game, then how can SS 1.x Necrons possibly be "balanced" late game?

[_McGr3g_]

by whom they were considered UP in team games? u played against some gawd clans or do you base your statement on some random team games? coz u r seriously wrong dude.

[PandaMine]

Scarab swarms were only useful for these things
1. Against undefended broadsides (the broadside will waste its rail on a single scarab, a full scarab army can kill broadside incredibly quickly)
2. Undefended artillery (basilisks/whirlwind/hellfire/looted tank)
3. Relic units that don't have AoE (GK) and other big tanky units with no AoE

Now they are about as useful as a mushroom

[mlai]

by whom they were considered UP in team games? u played against some gawd clans or do you base your statement on some random team games? coz u r seriously wrong dude.

I base my opinion on general forum sentiment during DC days, seeing as how I don't play team games or QS. The general sentiment that DC 1.2 Necrons weren't powerful in late team games were never seriously challenged.

We're not talking about the unpatched DC 1.0 Necrons that had imba Rez Orb and ridiculous max rez cap.

[Gorb]

Also don't forget that necron gets free units through all tiers, and res orb and tomb spyders enhance that by a great magnitude.

Yes, Necrons get free units. Yes, they are tough, and yes, the NL is a teleporting fun machine of death. However, look at the ability side of things. What abilities do the Crons get? Well, apart from the Lord, they're left with a couple of passives (FO, Pariahs) and the fixing-broken-shiz-machines that are the Tomb Spyders.

Other races get far more devastating abilities to use to hold back the (slow) Necron advance. Your Spyders actually have to survive to harvest the fallen Crons. The NL can't be attached, and so is singled out by a helluva lot of stuff (unit + character bashing him, various abilities like the Vindicare sniper - it won't kill him, but it'll hurt).

Necrons in 1v1 - pretty damn effective due to T1 NWs and NL. In team games? Don't make me laugh, two commanders can down the NL and then just put a few turrets around his body. Voila, the NL player no longer has a commander (unless the game drags on as far as T4 and Essence of the C'tan comes into play).

[PandaMine]

People are also forgetting the spyders have jack shit HP for a walker, they go down to AV so fast it isn't funny

The other main problem's that Necrons have (apart from Warriors) is that the Necron's effectiveness is now totally reliant on NL and Mono and this is NOT a good thing. A race that relies on a uber relic unit or a commander to be effective is not a good thing

As mlai said, yes its true that Crons were hell powerful in DC 1.0 with Res Orb, however in DC 1.2 the crons power comes from FO/Wraiths, Lightning Field and Solar Pulse. No one really questioned crons turtling power in T4 DC 1.2 because

1. No one survived against Crons until T4
2. If they did survive, Crons would have killed any opposing players econ so badly that most likely the crons would have an army of twice the size along with mono

If people don't believe me they can easily do a test, do a 1v1 game with Crons in DC 1.2 and some other race that isn't chaos (because of their crappy T4). Don't harrass eachother and let both races build up an army (make sure the map has 2 relics), and then do a final clash in T4.

You will see that in DC 1.2, it is quite manageable for the other race to come out victorious, incredibly easy if crons don't have mono

[ImmortalChaos]

I base my opinion on general forum sentiment during DC days, seeing as how I don't play team games or QS. The general sentiment that DC 1.2 Necrons weren't powerful in late team games were never seriously challenged.

Necs in DC1.2 certainly didn't have an uber T4, but their early game still rocked most other races and they were just as imba as in 1v1 if used correctly.

[Gannadene]

I think what's distracting a lot of people is that they're looking at the stats without considering abilities or micro, beyond Solar Pulse or NS, or whatever.

[PandaMine]

IG and Orks, easily raped Crons (if they survived) in T4 in DC 1.2. Now they are much worse, which isn't too good.

Hell if you don't want to buff Necron Warriors HP, give NL back his res orb from DC 1.0

[_McGr3g_]

[DC]scarab swarms + TS vs. hq = win.

now when u added 'late' to team games i guess u r talkin bout qs, 4v4 and 3v3 on kasyr like maps, ye, they werent so strong in this ones. in 2v2 and normal 3v3 maps(the ones on which u actually fight before t2) they did more then fine. ecobooming allowed to tech much faster then other races. they werent top notch, but far from UP.

anyway, back on topic. i doubt we will see any buff to cron infrantry, demand is not very popular and if u look at late game balance *coughavatarcough* this never was relic priority. anyway, gl.

[ImmortalChaos]

IG and Orks, easily raped [everyone] in T4 in DC 1.2

Fixed.

scarab swarms + TS vs. hq = win.

I don't even think they can attack buildings...

[PandaMine]

Scarabs only attack air units now, which as I said before, makes them as useful as mushrooms

[ImmortalChaos]

If there is anything necs have that desperately needs a buff, it's the attack scarabs.

[Avatar 720]

If there is anything necs have that desperately needs a buff, it's the attack scarabs.

Oh, the ones that ate my 3 tempests before they loosed off their second missile each? They may only attack air units now, but they're damn good at their new job.

Yesterday I went up against 2 necrons with my spess marines and a spess marine ally. He went for turtling the crit locs and focussing on CC harassment, I went for teching. The plan was that he used resources to build ass marines and spess marines and turrets, whilst I teched up to at least the machine cult, at which point I would start assembling dreadnoughts for harassment and an army of plasma. What went wrong was how we underestimated the enemy. Because my ally sat there and did nothing, the enemies were allowed to assemble armies, so when I got my scouts forward to scout the way for my dreads (cloacked plasma scouts ftw!) I was met by imba turrets, solar pulse necron lord and an army of warriors and immortals.

My scouts survived and reported the army location and prepared my own army. My ally noted the army location and attacked with his 3 or 4 ass marine squads. They jumped in an half of them were killed in mid-air, the others were demoralised, sergeant-less and were ripped apart. That army then attacked me. At that point I had 2 plasma scout squads (8 plasmaguns total) and 3 full squads of plasmagun toting marines + FC + dreadnought + hellfire dreadnought. I got my ass handed to me. I ran down to the point I had pinged as the meeting point as my scouts went ahead to harass the army.

This is where I don't get how people say necron warriors just die. 8 plasmaguns focus-firing on a necron warrior squad yeilded 4 casualties before my army was met. Solar pulse was let off, the necron's ally necron dropped flayed ones behind my army to stop a retreat and my dreads were downed in seconds by the immortals. The necron lord locked my tac squads in melee whilst the flayed ones reached them then progressed to the other squads. After my dreads ent down, the immortals joined the CC fray.

It ended with 90% of my army dead and 40% of his dead, he only pulled back because my ally had re-built and had launched a melta-bomb crusade against his monolith with his new ass squads. If you can use necrons effectively, by all means, do, but necron warriors are not supposed to be used as tanks. Their low morale makes it easy for them to break and their slow movement impedes them a lot. Basically, teleport a lord in, drop flayed ones behind the army, drop solar pulse, immortals come in and base-bash/vehicle bash and then the warriors trundle in and blow apart the enemy infantry. Immortals can do CC, they're not a CC-less unit. Instead of having them sit there and complain about their lack of shooting damage against infantry, take the advice of the tooltip and engage infantry in CC with them. They have low health because most vehicles won't last long, they aren't meant to be in long fire-fights with infantry, try getting them into CC with a tac squad and note the damage difference against them, you won't take as much but you'll deal out more. Warriors aren't halfbad in CC either, their knockdowns can be quite useful.

I don't even think they can attack buildings...

Try and quote the whole sentence next time...

[DC]scarab swarms + TS vs. hq = win.

[Compeador]

The reason a lot of "top" players didn't rebuke complaints about "bad" Necron tier 4 and weakness in team games is bc .... well honestly we really don't check threads like this very often bc they're a waste of time and are usually full of people whose arguments are weak or biased and typically only apply to kasyr games where sm and chaos rule the field anyway.

In short, we don't care.

So here, let's break a trend of no comment on necron tier 4. The reason they don't seem very strong to you is because in your games, the bases are so far apart and so hard to get into and so easily teched that the slow moving and devastating necron army never really gets the chance to bring its full force to its enemy's doorstep. Necron tier 4 is incredibly powerful, necron as a race is quite powerful. Not the best bc tbh there's some really broken stuff other races have but Necs are very well balanced in SS (besides wraith spam). Early game too. And nec warriors fit into the race very very well.



Oh, and the attack scarabs need no buff. lol. Best anti-aircraft in the game thanks. You're pretty much immune to Hell Talon harrassment unlike any other race in the game kthnksbai.

[Pseudonymn]

^ Is that a "top" player's opinion? That last bit sounds especially sketchy:

Oh, and the attack scarabs need no buff. lol. Best anti-aircraft in the game thanks. You're pretty much immune to Hell Talon harrassment unlike any other race in the game kthnksbai.

Insufficient. They are also the only flier in the game that cannot engage ground targets, and they are still expensive as fuck for what they do.

They can't even catch most other faction's fliers to start with, and you're stupid if you're leaving any of them in combat with them. The two fliers that they can catch (ie: LSTs, FBs - I don't include the MB because it has only one point less movement speed @ 42 vs 41) are still just fast enough to lead them on a wild goose chase at best, to AV support at worst where the little buggers get slaughtered. For a "flier" whose only means of attack is to close to melee, they are WOEFULLY lacking in the speed department. Try to catch an Eldar flier? Fuggetaboudit!

And then there's their cost:

Maintaining the base reinforcement rate of just one squad requires an power income rate of 57, and that's before the reinforcement time reduction from Obelisks is factored in.

And that's before the repair costs on the TS for building them to start are factored in.

Anyone who suggests that the Scarabs as they are now are fine is a sodding bluffer and shouldn’t be believed.

And IL were idiots for making them air-to-air combatants only. There are some shinging examples of bad fluff in the DoW franchise, but this one takes the cake.

[Compeador]

Is that a "top" player's opinion?

yes.

Try to catch an Eldar flier?

what use is a nightwing in the eldar vs necron matchup anyway? Nothing.




They're fine, useful, and if what they do is nothing more than keep any air units from harassing your eco or your troops, then the mission is accomplished. And fluff has always taken a backseat to balance in this series. Otherwise space marines would pwn everything.

Besides, the thread is about nec warriors. On topic please.

[zakublazer]

As a Noob player, i say Nec Warriors reinforce too slow and build too slow after 2 squads, getting more than 3 squad is beyond my tiny attention span.

they should wtfpwn everything, except me.

PS, i do believe the scarabes can actually stop the marauder from demolishing your gen farm in one run by staying infront of it. the bombing run just stops. They die a bit too quickly though.

[ImmortalChaos]

@Avatar_720: He only edited that in after I pointed it out. Heck, at the time of my quoting, I quoted his entire post. Now it's got a tag and a paragraph.

[Xanthian]

Problem with destroyers is as Gannadene has mentioned, they kill your economy considering the amount of power you are getting and the DPS return's you get.


Destroyers aren't actually that useful in heavy full squad clashes that you find in T4, for 250 power you are getting 63.0/126.0/105.0/94.5/73.5/52.5 DPS against infantry. In comparison, a full squad of warriors has 92.7/216/155.4/139.1/108/77.59 DPS against infantry, thats quit a big difference (this is even after the damage nerf).

Destroyers also get instantly raped by AV due to their shitty HP

And here we reach another crux of the problem. A necron player that doesn't know how to play.

On the one hand, you're complaining about destroyer dps, and on the other, others are complaining about wraith durability. All of this is coupled with complaining about destroyers getting owned by AV.

Apart from tankbustaz, which AV unit can kill a destroyer in melee? And what's stopping you supporting your destroyer with immortals?? (For the necron player who doesn't know how to play, immortals can't be tied up due to nob-level damage with huge disruption, they have to be shot at by ranged units or melee'd by melee specialists, and destroyers are a counter for both, being able to shoot melee specialists and melee ranged units with their high mobility.)

I'm not saying necrons don't have problems. But I am saying march of death + necron lord abilities (pick one, they're *all* good) + deep striking into defensive teleport makes necrons harder to punish than any other army if used appropriately.

[PandaMine]

Im saying that for the amount of economy you spend into making destroyers they give crap returns. Hell even the relicwiki says that destroyers/heavy destroyers are expensive for what they do.

Most players are forced to get destroyers to keep up, because any race needs tanks if they want to survive, its just that Destroyers/heavy destroyers are definitly not the best tanks in the game.

Also the fact that Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers get tied up in melee is actually more of a disadvantage then an advantage, because they do far more damage in range then in melee. Unless you are using them to up ranged squads in melee combat (??????) the other races tanks are generally a lot better. It may do nice melee damage, but its a single unit and not a squad. In fact most inf squads could most likely out melee it, (apart from maybe obliterators)

If it had better FotM then it would be a lot better

I'm not saying necrons don't have problems. But I am saying march of death + necron lord abilities (pick one, they're *all* good) + deep striking into defensive teleport makes necrons harder to punish than any other army if used appropriately.

Any race can do the same, not just crons.

[Pseudonymn]

what use is a nightwing in the eldar vs necron matchup anyway?

I was thinking about team games, but w/e.

[slay2rr]

PandaMine, the only reason you feel that destroyers are expensive, is because necron infantry are too cheap, destroyers/heavy destroyers weak? what are you talking about? 2000/3000hp is quite decent for T2-T3, if you cannot micro your destoryers to avoid AV, or use NW/FO to screen them from enemy melee units, it's not because they are weak, but because you're not using them the right way.

[PandaMine]

Slayer have you seen the state of crons economy lately?

I feel that Destroyers are expensive maybe because they actually ARE expensive. Compared to every other race, their tanks grants them more benefits from gold then Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers.

Also crons in their current state enter T3 (destroyers/heavy destroyers are considered T3) much longer then the other races, unless you have of course been left alone for the whole game