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Also I forgot to say how much time each upgrade would take and I made it clear I want 2 research buildings. I'm thinking since 20 seconds for a level 1 and 40 seconds for a level 2 upgrade, since they are so many. Not really important since we have Obelisks boosting research too.
If necrons get more starting power to match the other races, I demand the others builders and T0 units are changed to cost 0 resources.
Someone mentioned a cheaper mono- I'd fully agree to that. IMO, even 350 was fine back in DC1.0. Their econ was much better then so it was possible to get it early without too much worry (and that caused problems), but currently a 2nd mono at 350 would probably be fine because of the more expensive gens. The econ nerf on top of the huge price hike makes a second mono pretty much totally useless most of the time.
I don't care if it makes them research 100% faster. Time is still time.
ImmortalChaos, I'm fine with just a cheaper Monolith. You're right that 0 cost Scarabs and NWs are a reason for low power start. However Awakened Monolith costs 340 which is too much I think. Other races get HQ upgrades for like 300/125 only. I think Awakened Monolith should cost 250 max (300+125=425 and 250x2=500 seems fine). Engaged Monolith costs 400 and that's fine, others cost 340/340.
Generally Necron buildings are expensive (greater summoning core anyone?) and not tough enough (lol gens). Even the turret which is considered too good by some is only a basic turret with cost 125, nearly double that of other turrets (considering Necron income is about half). It only has 1125 hit points and average dps, the only advantage being 35 range (other turrets start at 30). The upgrade does make them good, but again it costs 50 pow which is half of what other races pay (50 req) adjusted for Necron economy. The upgrade doesn't even increase range, while other turrets get 40 range (some also get knockback rockets or AoE like D-cannon). It's a great upgrade though, dps is better than all other turrets against vehicles and against infantry, but hitpoints stay the same so it isn't imba. You can't even teleport to turrets with phasing.
So in the end I think that since Necrons were uber-nerfed, +25 instead of +20 cost per gen, etc, they can have 350 cost for Monoliths back and not be imba.
People are really underestimating necrons income here. +90 is not incredibly difficult to maintain, and that's easily as good as ~+100/+40 with any other race, which is considerably harder to get. The T2 cost and turret costs are perfectly fine (were you even thinking when you added that line about not being able to teleport to turrets? Remember you can build those anywhere on the map).
But yeah, I would be fine with the 2nd mono being made cheaper. The 3rd too- 900 is just ridiculous.
PS: We really just need one big necron thread- the race interlocks with itself pretty tightly and it's pretty much impossible to discern a problem without discussing the race as a whole.
Agreed. I don't particularly like that gens thread being out there on its own. We're just repeating ourselves over there.
Considering this thread is about T4 Warriors (which has only a vague relationship with T4 economy), economy talk shouldn't even BE in here.
And no, don't take that as an opportunity to debate on the relationship of generators to Warriors. Take it outside.
Once again, what is an ideal infantry setup in T4 to compensate for Warriors' rancid pop-gun range?
I agree. NW a little weak for T3 and T4 time, most die while trying to get in range and those that get in range soon die too. Solar pulse helps, but usually it just means ull get mowed down a bit farther back, as units usually just walk away. No decent player will wait for the pulse to go away, lol. but health upgrade... i dont know, i dont see athat solving the problem. i think a range upgrade would be much better, the energy core not just offering the C'tan upgrades, but also a new upgrade for the NW, one that increases their range to something in b/w their current fully upgraded range and that of a heavy bolter. Dont get me wrong, a heavy bolter should still outrange it by quite a bit, im just talking a slight increase in range. that way they can begin to deal damage earlier but still at a max of 870, and also remember that this upgrade will be quite late game (at energy core).
How about tying NW's damage/range to lith upgrades like the flayed ones health?
Well, if they are going to do it that way, any/all health upgrades for infantry units should be tied to Mono upgrades whereas tech upgrades at the SC should focus on weapon/range upgrades. The thing I would like to see happen is, as I've mentioned before, that Necron buffs are separated into distinct tech trees. Right now their strategic depth is rather shallow, even for a TT Necron army by comparison.
Last edited by Pseudonymn; 27th Nov 08 at 2:35 AM.
Well more researches can be added into the greater summoning core, seeing as apart from teching the thing is a complete ornament (has no researches whatsoever).
I think if they added a research into the GSC (if they don't want the +4 range earlier on) that should be sufficient enough to make them viable
The ironic thing is, although the NW early on are quite powerful you will never be able to afford more then 2 or 3 squads without killing you're echo/teching and for the most time they can be ignored.
Later on you can get more of them, but the fact that they are combined with slow movespeed and mediocre range (along with a lot of other deficiencies) means they are not up to the standard in comparison to the other armies. Their only saving grace is the Mono and/or Lord
The race is badly implemented, NW should not move as slowly as they do (they just shouldn't be as fast units as some of the other races can be). They also should be the most powerful units at any stage of the game with the disadvantage that they don't have any special abilities (nades etc etc) AND they have a huge cost (at least in TT they do). The whole issue happened when Relic had the idea of making NW free, which is not only against the fluff of crons (crons are supposed to be very expensive units, its their theme) but raises a very fine line in balance in terms of units being too powerful or next to useless
For some reason I just can't wrap my head around this range buff.
I guess it 'feels' contrary to the character of the unit - a nonsense argument I know.
I like the idea of more diversity in researches ^^ give the GSC a job to do.
I see value in a (further) modest increase to NW FotM - maybe through a GSC 'targetting' style upgrade.
It seems the obvious answer to their range disadvantage and their slow speed and fits with the 'death march' role that they fit so well.
Actually the range disadvantage doesn't at all fit into the death march role, Necrons are not orks, they are not supposed to excel in close ranged or melee combat (in fact they have the most sophisticated weaponry for short and long range). They are also not supposed to move that slow (they have a movespeed of 14 in TT), its just they are not supposed to be highly mobile. I mean seriously have a look at the size of those rifles, there is no reason why they should have such short range. The reason this whole necron imbalanced thing happened in DC is that their cost was free (which is against the fluff of necrons) and they had a borked economy
The reason why they are powerful in TT is because NW have higher HP/damage compared to other units, but more importantly have a chance to instantly revive on full HP. This is compared to their weakness's, where every necron unit is incredibly expensive (compared to the other races) and they don't have any special abilities such as grenades or what not.
#364
A FOTM accuracy buff would be pointless, they would still be useless at chasing enemies because of their low range and slow speed and also their FOTM accuracy is already quite high anyway.
-It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end (Douglas Adams)-
-Make something idiot proof and nature will create a better idiot.-
-Me fail English? That's unpossible!-
Last I checked Necron Warriors do have Grenades in TT; It's not called a Grenade per-say but it works like one. It's just to try and destroy vehicles in melee.
Albeit, I'm pretty sure my Necon Codex isn't the most recent one.
New one comes out circa Q1 '09.
Rumors abound about the C'Tan being pushed back in favor of bringing Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum Lords to the forefront. 5E basically made Necrons nearly impossible to win with, with the loss of WBB and glancing. I'd anticipate some major changes to the race in the next Codex. Good thing they aren't a stock race in DoW2. Not that I'd ever expect them to be.
Maybe you're talking about the tabletop Disruption Fields?It's just to try and destroy vehicles in melee.
Originally Posted by chelovek_veliki
For those of us who aren't TT players - what's the difference between say a gold and platinum Lord, other than the platinum lord having a higher credit limit?Rumors abound about the C'Tan being pushed back in favor of bringing Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum Lords to the forefront
Nobody knows yet.
[edit]: Although, higher level examples supposedly have the Advanced Necrodermis upgrade available, which lets them transform into C'Tan avatars. (The existing minis.) Much larger models are being made for the "real" C'Tan, who're being moved to Apocalypse.
Supposedly the higher ranks hold more sentience and retain their personalities. And, as a more highly favored Lord of his respective C'tan, he'll have access to far greater technology and influence.For those of us who aren't TT players - what's the difference between say a gold and platinum Lord, other than the platinum lord having a higher credit limit?
"And no, I am not a Necron. You mistake the slave for the master." - Mephet'ran, The Deceiver
You sure about Q1 '09? I've read rumors placing the release closer to Q1' 10.
Er, sorry about getting off topic.
"I have come to destroy you."
Tier 4, Necrons can teleport their monolith into the middle of the enemy army then teleport Necron Warriors to their monolith to decimate the enemy army.
Add +4 range to Disruption Field. Make them regenerate during combat. And that's that.
Flayed spam is no where near as strong as it once was
Your friend was doing it wrong,before t1.5 means he should have been harassing the heck out of you, crons get to t1.5 pretty slowish because of their uber nerfed eco, and you're talking 5 squads of flayed? that's 600 power on it's own - more than the difference between a tier, your friend should've had more than enough to deal with you.
Any replays? until then i stand unbelieving
Sounds like your non-Cron players are horrible.
At the very low end of the skill level Necrons don't seem so bad. As you go higher you start to notice that they stop being winners and as you near the top they just plain suck.
Hi
We do suck, it's true. It's because of the size of our player pool: we downloaded this game via pirate bay and have been playing over Hamachi, so not a big player pool. We plan on purchasing the game soon though, since our meta-game is starting to get boring and we want the online experience (so, don't hate us OK?).
I will record two replays for you guys, I mean if you are at all interested in watching two semi-noobs duke it out like that... we aren't lame: like, we watch replays and talk about the games we play afterwards, we read online, and we are both very experienced rts players, and we have been playing DOW for about 6 months.
Why do you think that necrons take longer to get to 1.5? It takes other races 35 - 55 seconds to build their 1.5 building right? (we are talking about barracks buildings yes?) and it takes necron 70 seconds to build summoning core. So that is only a difference of 30ish seconds? Right? In my experience I have a warrior squad by the time it is finished* and can then start building the flayed ones right away. It feels to me like I am not losing time that way, right, because the core builds separate from the unit production building, so I can be producing tier zero units while it is getting ready. And because they teleport into battle and are such strong close combat units early game... I don't see how this can be called slow to tech 1.5?
I don't know as much as you guys, I'm just calling it as I see it. But, what's wrong with this picture? Thank you all!
z.
* I set my first builder to build it, like I would with any other race, and then the rest of my builders work on power and capping
Necs takes longer to get t1.5 because they badly need the power to build plasma gen first, otherwise they get out-ecoed and out-teched badlyWhy do you think that necrons take longer to get to 1.5? It takes other races 35 - 55 seconds to build their 1.5 building right? (we are talking about barracks buildings yes?) and it takes necron 70 seconds to build summoning core. So that is only a difference of 30ish seconds? Right?
Are you sure you`re not playing Dark crusade? because in Soulstorm FO aren`t really that strong
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