Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor (Now with a Trailer!)

[senseo1990]

Oh , didnt knew ,that it is a quote from a relic-employee.
Thought it was from a online pc-magazine-review...and those people always interpret things wrong.
Is it really a quote from someone of the relic-team or is it a quote from a guy who talked with someone of the relic-team and maybe missunderstands something?
Would be cool if there were 5 (or even more^^) unit replacements per faction or maybe upgrade replacements (for example to give my Vampire-halftrack the ability to stealth instead being able to purchase anti-tank grenades...)
I hope that relic changed its mind about "replacement units wont be allowed in multiplayer" because then they would give away great multiplayer-potential. Being able to individualise your army would be quite innovative too...but we will see =)

[Imperial Dane]

Oh, sorry then Deacon.. must have been tired and misread it. So sorry for attacking you in such a fashion.

@Imperial Honour: Dunno about the boys, would be interesting i suppose, but a bad tradeoff for the Piat i would think.

@Senseo, Well the general idea seems to be that you can customize your army.

@Tseng Fox: same here, the schwimmwagen is kinda underwhelming compared to all the other stuff :/

[senseo1990]

A perk-system like the one in call of duty would be great:
You can choose a few before the match and with them customize your style of play...some will just replace unit x with y and others will "increase the duration of fire effects for your booby-traps , incendinary-grenades and mortarshells" .
Okay I will stop wishing now and waiting for more information...that's what the thread is about right? =)

[Imperial Dane]

Well there is already the doctrines, and now with units to specialize your force even more, well i think perks would be overdoing it...

[Deacon412]

Imperial dane i missed some thing what are you talking about @_@
EDIT:i read a bit and figured it out, its alright it happens to me 2 =]

[senseo1990]

With the doctrines you are right, but an rts where each game is completely different is the best rts ,because you really have to react on the situation and not just follow certain patterns.
I think there cant be enough different armies, customizations and stuff, as long as they are balanced (what most likely will be the biggest problem)

[Imperial Dane]

@Deacon: I misread one of your earlier posts and mistook you for a whiner.. and acted like i always do when i see one.. Not so nicely.

@Senseo: Well there is that, but who knows, we might see something like that in CoH 2 or another expansion again :P

Now the question is of course if the Schwimmwagen will make it into tales of valour (which i hope it doesn't) but also overall how many new units will be in and what can be changed with what..

[senseo1990]

So each faction needs the same amount of "new units" so there wont be more than 5 each...because already 5 each mean 20 new units to design and balance, I dont think it will be that much new units for an expansion which already is filled with 3 campaigns and a coop-mode.

[Imperial Dane]

Be careful about underestimating Relic :P And while there probably won't be a whole slew of new units, i imagine that there will be a couple, plus the last article does give an indication of a sort of sharing of units between factions, like the american being able to get the Stuart.

[senseo1990]

Interessting Idea, but I wouldnt like to see that.
For me it is great, that each faction has its stronger and weaker points so mixing the units would make it...weird?! oO

[Imperial Dane]

Oh i am sure they could have differences within each faction as well.. Though time will tell. Just hope they decide to give us some more info on the new units and to which extent they will bé usable.

[Deacon412]

im still waiting for more info on MP!! =]]
dow2 was supose to have a gigantic mp reveal this month but it never happend =[

[Imperial Dane]

Only thing to do is wait.. as always..

[Kosake]

Well, lets see....
We got one new Army and a glimpse on Necs in Winter Assault, two new in Dark crusade, another two in Soulstrom, two factions in oposing fronts...

And this time we get a lame mod and three short campaingns... Well, I sure do hope that we get a whole slew of new units!!!

Besides, you are all afraid of disbalance from new units. I say: so what? One or two patches later everything will be quite playable. There was never an RTS that was completely balanced from 1.0 on (except for Starcraft maybe, but it is also in it's one-fifteens by now).
Get me at least some french or something. Need something new to grind under my tracks...

[Imperial Dane]

Well Kosake, you rather consistently forget that not all has been shown, yet you act as if it has :P

Yes 3 campaigns that won't be as long as the others, but that doesn't necessarily mean short.

With the mod i assume you mean the invasion mode where you keep off an invasion with Tiger tanks.

We still don't know much about the other two campaigns beyond that they are US and PE.

Plus there is a lot more to come i am sure.

So how about waiting until Relic have put all the cards on the table before condemning the expansion ?

But i do agree with the bit on the new units.

[diLuca]

not much to see in that video...looks like they aint that far in development...not a good sign imo...

[Kosake]

Look, before Red Alert 3 was released, EA hat a page up, where features of the game were shown, units presented, some talks and intervies with the guys behind the code were given and all the stuff.
You got up to two or even three new things per week.
We have a statement from before the anouncement that they are doing something, we have the anouncement, a lame trailer and the statement that no new factions will come.

I say, its not a shame that you can see it, It's a shame if you have nothing to show... and it smells just like that right now.

[Imperial Dane]

And why are you comparing Relic to EA ? Even though they work in different ways ? I mean it's not exactly new for Relic only to release small bits at a time, it's their style.

And perhaps you dislike the trailer, but that doesn't make it lame.

[drink]

Anyone got more to add? While it's likely that not all these "new" vehicles would make it into multiplayer, you can rest assured some will, and modders will get their hands onto them add add them to their mods for multiplayer. There's also some other nice little visual things for modders to claw out like an early production Tiger model & some new skins, and now infantry/tank crew models and skins (some already being used by modders), and so even if ToV isn't immediately destined for greatness, it'll open up new content for modders, which means the many of us who download and play mods will still get more enjoyment from ToV.

This is why you buy Halflife 2, Quake, wc3 and the like. Lots of people buy them and lots of people make mods.

It is not the reason to buy a niche rts like coh.

OH THE MODDING SCENE WILL BE FANTASTIC. uh no

[fabi0]

I dont want to be a negative nancy or anything... but i really hope they keep direct fire mode out of MP. Itll just turn this into who can swap between vehicles the fastest and target the opponents weak points. apparently their not going to add new factions so no point in whining about that.

i would like to see how they incorporate the new units, since it looks liek their just going to replace alot of the units. for example, idk if they could just swap the m18 for the m18, and if so will the cost be different? will it do anything diferemt? or is it just a skin mod?

i really think they should just focus on new patches and what not rather than rushing out a stand alone that might ruin the game. really i could wait a while longer if they could some how incorporate new factions, i think everyone wants new factions, not just some new replacements.

that said, we can only hope for the best and let this be a magnificent add on.

[Deacon412]

Kosake dont be ignorant in the fact that not every thing has been layed out for us to see, you cant make any justified judgements until weve seen it all...and we havent

[Pyros]

fabi0, Relic has said that Direct Fire won't really affect MP; it'll be in one or two modes at most, and possibly none. Since the new Invasion mode has you controlling Tigers against waves of enemy invasions, I'm guessing that mode will feature it since it sounds very similar to the way the Tiger Ace campaign is set up. But either way, you won't see Direct Fire added to the vanilla MP mode or forced upon any sort of existing gameplay. It is a fun thing to use in a game mode or two but not a replacement for the depth that CoH currently offers.

[Imperial Dane]

@drink: And manymore don't even care about the mods and buy it for the game itself surprisingly enough.

@Fabio: Direct fire mode is just a feature for a campaign and a certain multiplayer mode or two, it's not going to be forced on everybody,

And the new units won't just be new skins that much is for certain.

Just hope they don't bring in the Schwimmwagen..

[Kosake]

I say that what has been known so far is crap and that the information policy as such is crap.
From what I know I dislike ToV and for the information amoung given I dislike Relic by now.
Two Problems, one solution: get more news official and make em good news. Until that happens I see no reason to be happy with anything or just sit and wait for something I wont like to happen. Another point of comparisson: Blizzard made a dozen or so discussion threats in their official forum on various aspects of SC2. Just to get overall opinion of the comunity. Ever seen a poll or anything else around here, being official?

[Imperial Dane]

How about the one that asked us about what kind of new maps we would like to see ?

Besides they don't have any official CoH forums, but they are working on that, and let's not get into comparisons with Blizzard, we aren't talking about Blizzard here but Relic.

And if what you have seen so far is crap, and the information policy is crap, then why the hell are you still around ?

[Deacon412]

well kosake im actually glade relic dosent piss out information just for the hell of it, it keeps peoples interest and serves other purposes....

[Soviet779]

Yeah the trailer dosent look that impressive but if you read the article:

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/932/932463p1.html

It sounds really really cool. What theyve done is basically what was done in "Soldiers: Heros of WWII" back in 2004, which if anyone has played its an extremely fun game! If you havent played it go buy it from GOG.com for $9.99, DRM free and seems to work on vista x64. Anyways it had "direct control mode" where you drive tanks with the keyboard and aim with the mouse, ToV introduces this as well but theyve called it "direct fire mode". The german campaign on soldiers was a LOT of fun, itll be interesting to see what relic does with ToV.

For those who wanted an eastern expansion, well too bad, that wouldve been sweet as well but ToV is going to be a lot of fun from what im seeing. A pacific expansion would have sucked.

[senseo1990]

I love you Imperial Dane <3 =)

[Kosake]

I'm still around cause they made a great game once, added a fine addon and are now trying to pull of something I don't even like to think about. And honestly, if they do not hear negative feedback, why should they change their ways?
And Deacon: For that point you are wrong. Since nothing interesting is anounced I lose interest in ToV rapidly. If they trying to hype the addon that way: EPIC FAIL. If they are trying to do the sneaky surprise anouncement: Don't wonder that I'll be playing SC2 for a year or so, before I get me ToV for 5 bucks at amazon.

@ Dane: Why shouldn't we complain Relic, Bliz, EA and otheres? Any reason not to do so? I am not a fan of EA - they killed my beloved Dungeon Keeper, made Command and Conquer lame and are doing a lot more things I do not apreciate, but at least they keep the comunity buisy and fed with information.

[Imperial Dane]

What ? That they've decided to instead of just releasing their DLC in small bits decided to give it a boost and make it an expansion ?

Besides, one guy saying it is crap doesn't really count as feedback.. that is just you complaining.. I mean so far basically what you have said is everything is crap, the one of the many multiplayer modes mentioned is apparently just a MOD and well, generally you make a lot of assumptions without much to back it up

Also them releasing small bits of information is their way of doing things, because things can still change among other things, they aren't going to be saying a lot of stuff when that is up in the air, there will be information but they aren't ready yet, and as you might have read, a unified CoH community site is on the way, which most likely will mean a greater flow of information.

But basically you are complaining that they aren't telling everything right away. Which no one does ! Not even EA or Blizzard ! And most of that was just before the game was out ! So your comparisons are kinda hollow in that sense.

I mean have you patience ? It's been.. what a month or so ? It's just been bloodywell announced and already know you are expecting to know pretty much everything about the game it seems ! If they did that, then you would be soon complaining they told too much !

So how about you actually say something that isn't rooted in your opinion..

[DribbleSack]

Imperial Dane - to hear you speak, you seem to think you are the single most authoritative poster on these boards.

As has already been stated, whilst a fundamental aspect of marketing is to tease you're prospective buyers with tidbits, you also make sure that you have annouced the key features of a game. You don't tell everyone about the minor features at the expense of the major ones.

So what has been revealed so far, can be pretty safely regarded as the major features. I think anyone who is expecting some new annoucement with a feature that hasn't already been mentioned is deluding themselves.

[Imperial Dane]

Imperial Dane - to hear you speak, you seem to think you are the single most authoritative poster on these boards.

To reads these lines, you seem to think i must have some point to them ,otherwise you wouldn't be attacking me but my posts.

As it is i don't think my self to be the most authoritative poster on these boards.. i am probably far from it. But if i can't speak with some conviction and self assurance, then why bother ?

And you seem to be missing some bits, because it isn't something new for them to withold major features, they have done it before, they are doing it with DoW 2, it's called .. a surprise ! Not to tell about every large thing because you want to keep it a secret until you are ready.
And of course there might not be any more larger features, but they still have stuff to announce and tell about, and they should do it at a pace that allows them to prepare it well and present it to us in an enticing matter.

[Deacon412]

afaik its not even finished yet...

[DribbleSack]

Whether it's finished or not is entirely irrelevant. Developers/publishers don't embark on expensive projects such as ToV without having a clear design document. Typically, the parameters of a new game are completely decided before any work on the actual code or art assets is even started. There will be concept art, but that's about it. So don't expect any major new features to crop up during the actual development phase.

Those of you who want to labor under the illusion that there is more to be announced regarding ToV are clearly free to do so but I fear you are going to be sadly disappointed. The one thing you can rely on is that the reality rarely lives up to the hype and marketing spin. Classic recent case was the multiplayer for Brothers In Arms: Hell's Highway. After months of promising a reveal on the multiplayer aspects of the game Ubisoft ended up staying silent right up to the release of the game. Turns out that the MP part of the game was developed by an entirely separate studio and turned out to be wank.

And, Dane, you are giving THQ/Relic too much credit for withholding information about DoW2. All of the major features have already been announced. They haven't spoken about the multiplayer aspects of the game yet because there is NOTHING INTERESTING to reveal. DoW2 is clearly focused on re-engineering the singleplayer aspects of the game. Multiplayer will be an afterthought. Whilst I personally am pleased they are working on new ideas for SP, I fear this will be at the expense of MP. And I expect the MP community will find themselves returning to DoW/Soulstorm for a decent MP experience.

[Cobra5]

Like I said in the other thread, while they COULD have some surprises for us, I really doubt it. In my opinion, there will be 3-4 new replaceable units, 3 campaigns of 4-5 missions each, one new game mode (IF that is even included at launch), and 10-15 new maps. A generous estimate on the maps, but let's be hopeful.

Like I also said though, I don't see the gripe with that. Seems enough for a $20 expansion.

[Deacon412]

dribs theirs probly going to be more announced and if their isnt im overjoyed with already has been =p

[Imperial Honour]

Those of you who want to labor under the illusion that there is more to be announced regarding ToV are clearly free to do so but I fear you are going to be sadly disappointed.

There is more to be announced We haven't a clue what these two other mini campaigns are about yet (lol).

Someone had to lighten the mood the thread, it sounded like argument then counter argument for a while there . On a more serious note while on Relicnews, PlanetCoH and GR.org there has been a fair bit of flack sent Relic's way by the fans obviously your the vocal miniority as I've seen (so far) two times the amounts of comments by people saying they are interested in hearing more about ToV and are going to buy it (no I'm not listing any sites, I went through about 10 pages on Google). Your not forced to buy the expansion if you don't like it, nor are you forced not to buy the expansion if you do like it. Your entitled to your opinions as well, but obviously you cannot blame Relic for not marketing the game to your likings there is more to the game then the multiplayer or automatch community and Relic has the right to look after them as well.

[Imperial Dane]

@Dribblesack:
Never said that anything new might pop up, the reverse thing is not so uncommon, features might be taken out because they are too time intensive and what not or just not practical.

Also stuff is going to be announced, what the other campaigns will be about, what the other multiplayer modes are going to be and what sorts of units will be in

And am i really giving them too much credit ? Or are you just not really bothering to look ? As it is so far they have only shown the singleplayer bits to show that they are improving there as well, already bits about multiplayer are trickling out and they are quite different from what was before and interesting.
And as of yet, you still haven't seen that announcement, so how can you know ?

[MosheLevi]

I am a big COH fan since COH came out and I still play COH almost every day.

I was looking forward for TOV but I have to say that I am disappointed from what I heard so far.

Is it true that TOV will have no new factions, and no new features?
I understand that TOV will just offer couple of replacement units, and a very short campaign (4.5 hours long).

I don’t see the point, I expected much more.

When will COH offer new factions?
What about naval units? Will COH ever have that?

This is very disappointing….

[Imperial Dane]

Yes ToV will have no new factions, there will be new features, one of them includes the new units. Where you will be able to specialize your army using the new units thus working them towards the kinds of strategies you favour.

Also we don't know the exact length of the Campaign, but we do know there is going to be more than one, in fact there will be three.

Plus there will also be new multiplayer modes.

And there might be another expansion as this is basically DLC that has been upgraded to expansion level.
And this new expansion MIGHT offer new units, though i can't say.

[MosheLevi]

I read in PC gamer that TOV will have 3 campaigns of 1.5 hours each (4.5 hours total).
They were very specific about that.
IMO this is too short.

I also understand that TOV is moving towards a “Shooter” type of experience which is not that much appealing to me.
I have many shooter games and I don’t need another one.
I prefer the RTS experience and the more units the better.

New MODS are also not very appealing.
There are many COH mods out there for free, so why would I want to pay for one.

I love COH more than any RTS game, and I had high hopes for the new expansion.
Needless to say that what I heard about TOV is very disappointing.

[Deacon412]

offically relic hasnt talked about multiplayer...so there might be the ever so slightest chance that isnt really worth placing hope on...
for all we know relic is still adding content to ToV

[Kosake]

And there might be another expansion as this is basically DLC that has been upgraded to expansion level.
And this new expansion MIGHT offer new units, though i can't say.

Oh yeah. great. Were being sold a bunch of patches and are ripped off for a second expansion afterwards, ooorah!

Besides, look at the overall opinion (in this forum): most people state, that they are interested, if there is more about it, than has been revealed so far. And some few pessimists like me who expect it to be the rippoff it looks like now. And then we have two or three guys who are allready happy since SP and compstomp content is all they care about.

I believe Cobra5 is right. We get some short campaigns, and hopefully some new maps, which may be the best thing about it right now.

And why should I have any form of patience?
Besides, SC2 has not even a confirmed release right now and you allready know nearly two of three factions in main aspects, the new campaign features and stuff.

And of course there might not be any more larger features, but they still have stuff to announce and tell about, and they should do it at a pace that allows them to prepare it well and present it to us in an enticing matter.

When SC2 was announced, all Blizzard did was showing a gameplay trailer. They did not even bother much with camera angles, effects or anything. They simply filmed some gameplay and it was enough to hype whole of Korea and Millions of people over the world.
So what exactly is that pace, that allows them to prepare...? walking rate of a three-footed turtle?

[Pyros]

MosheLevi, Relic has said they'd like to add in naval units and aircraft at some point, but they would never do that until they get it right and makes sure it works. Considering how annoying vehicle pathfinding can be in CoH and OF, I somehow doubt we'll see naval units anytime soon. But that is okay -- I'd rather Relic did it right than rushed it.

[Deacon412]

When SC2 was announced, all Blizzard did was showing a gameplay trailer. They did not even bother much with camera angles, effects or anything. They simply filmed some gameplay and it was enough to hype whole of Korea and Millions of people over the world.

it faild to even remotely impress me =/
This stand alone expansion however...

[MosheLevi]

I am glad to hear the Relic wants to add naval and air units to COH.
However, I hope is doesn’t take them 5 years to achieve that.

There are many RTS games out there with naval and/or air units such as AOE3 and C&C: RA3.
Relic is one of the best RTS developers in the world (if not the best) so I my expectations from them are high.

Naval and air units add a great deal of strategy and tactics to RTS games so I would like to see these new features added sooner rather than later.

[Kosake]

I disagree about that... More often then not they are not properly implemented. Since CoH is really a realistic game, you would need a landing strip for your aviation. And the costs of even a small ship are far greater than anything we have in the field right now. So at most, an amphibious troop transport or something may be added.
>> Schwimmwagen, to the front!! *lol*

[Deacon412]

i cant immagine the scale the battle would have to be to justify the implimentation of air craft and ships

[shiner980]

Well considering, CoH is a pretty small scale game, I don't see how they would be implementing ships or aircraft as anything more than doctrinal powers. Unless you want it so that there's a tactical mission on a ship (hehe). Seriously though, I don't think that's going to come in Tales of Valor.

Now if Imperial Dane is correct and that there will be new units that can be swapped in to tailor to new strategies, I can certainly see myself being a bit more interested then the current buzz about the three single player campaigns.

[DribbleSack]

I'm a sucker for CoH and will buy just about anything with CoH on the box, ToV included. However, I still can't help but feel Relic/THQ are stretching things here to warrant the title of a standalone expansion. The three mini-campaigns have been reported as being as short as 1.5 hours a piece. If this is true then this offers questionale value for money.

There won't be any new factions - this has been confirmed by Relic already. The new 'units' will most likely be reward units with replacement skins, i.e. similar to those which were leaked during the playtest beta. This doesn't constiture bona fide 'new units' imo. The new multiplayer mode(S) seem to be a grandoise reference to the 'defend the village/invasion' game type, which looks like being a glorified comp stomp. And as for new maps we will be lucky to get ten new ones of which I wager several will be the custom competition maps from the playtest beta.

So despite the fact that I will end up buying ToV regardless of the above, I just find it amusing that so many of you seem to be expecting additional features and/or content to be annouced. That Relic/THQ are holding out on some big annoucement. Sure, they have still to explain what the second and third mini-campaigns are going to be about but the significant news is that there *are* three mini-campaigns - we already know this. There isn't anything major left to annouce. End of.