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Players that buy the old copy are not affected by the change unless they download the new patch.
Relic can always attach a license addendum to the TOV patch mentioning that system requirements have been changed.
Most players don’t play online, so they won’t download the patch and will not be affected by it.
#452
Considering the patch is autodownloaded.. not much of a choice there, and it would prevent them from getting any future patches... But if that upgrade was made voluntary.. that could work i imagine.. though not sure if that is possible.
Yes, for this type of solution Relic will have to modify the patching system to be voluntary like the rest of the RTS games.
I never liked the autodownload anyway mostly because it forces you to download all the patches one after another and that can take hours.
Just imagine the poor players who buy COH today and have to download 10+ patches one after another (never knowing which patch is the last patch), and that is only going to get worse.
My computer just runs CoH at minimum settings. Any increase in requirements would kill my ability to play the game. A lot of people don't have the money to upgrade their computer regularly, and won't have upgraded in the past couple years (or have gotten a great computer in the first place).
This would leave Relic the option of partitioning the community, which they have shown an aversion to, or not add new factions.
#455
Yeah, i got my computer (an averag egaming one at that), 3 years ago! and i certainly don't have the money to buy a new one again now. I can just play OF on mostly low settings, and i'm sure we all remember who the specs changed with OF, yet they never changed the specs on the boxes.
What i don't understand is, if they released an expansion that had higher requirements, why do people think that that would mean the system requirements printed on CoH and OF boxes would need to be changed? That's an older product and at the time of printing the information was correct.
Now making a standalone expansion without the previous four factions, but just two new factions would quite heavily split the multiplayer community, on one side there's the people with the old games, who either don't want to, can't get the new expansion just yet, or don't like the new factions enough to play online wiht them regulary... then you've got the people with the new expansion and love it. Essentially you'll have half the community playing one, and the other half playing the other, which'll result in either fewer matches, or it taking even longer to get enough players for the match. As one person brought up, a true standalone expansion set on another front would also fix the supposedly all important issue of factions fighting on fronts where they weren't historically present. Sure, thats great, but only some community people care about the game being so historically correct they can't stand the thought of Russians being present on Lyon or the Scheldt, many community members (including myself) don't really care, and we all know that while this game looks to be set in WW2, it's not historically correct by any distance, and we all know that Relic follows the Gameplay>Realism philosophy. SO i'm sure they don't concern themselves with Russians on Western front maps.
This all brings me back to the fact that Relics motivations for not including a new faction or factions in ToV is unknown to the community, but we can speculate that it's either because they didn't want to modify the engine and have to raise the system requirements, or more likely all the ToV content was intended to be DLC, with some executive deciding it would be better to release it as a retail expansion instead.
A lot of games are unplayable with minimum specs and no one cares about, and now if Relic wants to improve the game with engine-specs impact, everyone has something to say? It has no sense.
Let the game EXPAND as much as it can. We all love COH and we all want the best COH possible. No problem for me, if I have to buy new hardware to play, I will, if not now, when I could afford it, because I love COH.
I'm sure vCOH performs better than OF, and it wasnt an issue.
The biggest thing isn't that min specs wont run it (yes that is common), but that people who currently play the game at the bottom end, will suddenly download a patch and the game won't run, and they won't be able to access multiplayer (or Relic partitions the community, which I don't see happening).
#458
Well it won't run properly to say the least, which is more the problem, that people will suddenly find it problematic to play the game, for no apparent reason to them, so as far as i can see, the solution would be to make the patch that makes the two new factions playable optional and then they will still be able to be a part o a certain degree, they just won't be able to play against any of the new factions.. although it's probably more troublesome than i make it sound.
In any case, that is for the future and ToV is what we actually have some knowledge about, albeit not much at the moment.
So while there might not be new factions, there will be new units who hopefully should open up to some more and interesting strategies, although i am curious to know as to whether there will be some new infantry as well..
I'm worried about new infantry. Nowhere Relic said a word about infantry, they always refer to "new vehicles", no "new units".
I'd love to see new infantry, if not new new, maybe new skins for raining days, urban maps, france-holland-germany scenario, etc.
#460
Well some more skins for the wehrmacht so at least they are up to the same amount as the PE..
But yeah, so far only vehicles have been mentioned, and it was merely out of curiosity as it could be interesting, although it wouldn't be so applicable to all, for examle the Americans having only the Riflemen and brits with their infantry sections.. The axis would have the more fun in that case.
But i can imagine that the PE might be able to exchange their infantry support PIV with a Regular PIV..
Woohoo, unlockable vehicles(sarcasm :P):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-njag...eature=related
P.S.- Stop talking about the Eastern Front. This topic is about Tales of Valor, not "Where is my Russians and why dun I has them yet?" You guys are going to get this thread locked... again...
#462
Nice video.. Fortunately things have already changed to being what they were there, seeing as the Americans can't get the staghound anymore it seems, but instead get the stuart, apparently with some new upgrades and such for it.
.. I just hope they take away the Schimmwagen.. Nobody gains from it :P
i would look so cool if i were to pull up into my jobs parking lot in a schwimmwagen
Then on the drive home, if you hit a traffic jam you can just drive down to the river and laugh at everyone as you get home.
On a serious note, they could add some ability for it. Maybe it could carry a PG squad, but move slower than a ketten. I am sure there are possibilities that would work.
I thought it was a little out dated, but I posted it as in to show what some in action would look like since I was wondering myself.
Schwimmwagen can go reverse?
Jep it can...and no that isnt OP ...
besides the schwim wasnt there another tank for the PE?? I thought I read about it but maybe Im mistaken.
#468
Not as far as i know, all i heard was the Staghound and the Schwimmwagen, nothing else :/
@ Flashpoint: So what? The maximum amount of interest I have in ToV is at most 5 % of what an expansions with russians would have. And right now, I'm down to 0,5%.
About Schwimmwagen: It definitely would be an interesting thing. I favor light vehicles much more than say a big new tank. The Schwimmwagen could carry up to 4 passengers I believe, so it would actually be an interesting small troop carrier... Especially wehr players might like the idea to drive their pios around the battlefield from early on. Would be a nice add to PE as well...
Infantry credo #1:
If force does not help, more force will...
________________
Ok? The thing is that this topic is about Tales of Valor, not "Omg, when are Russians? Why aren't they here yet?" Thats what happened to the last Tales of Valor thread, it was locked, and now it is happening again. What irks me about it is that I come to this thread to find out about Tales of Valor, but instead of it being relatively easy to find info I have to go through all this crap that has nothing to do with the topic. All I seem to see is Russians this, Russians that, and "Omg, no Russians!?! This expansion = phail!"@ Flashpoint: So what? The maximum amount of interest I have in ToV is at most 5 % of what an expansions with russians would have. And right now, I'm down to 0,5%.
If you want to talk about Russians and why they aren't here yet then start a new thread or revive one of the dead ones, which is what should of been done a long time ago and what moderators have told you to do.
#471
Aye, so let's keep this on Topic alright ?
And if Schwimmwagens were to be able to act as transports, that would indeed make them interesting choices, although they would cost more than their alternatives then, otherwise the other ones would be rather left out i think :P
Jup! just imagine this! As wehr, you build the racks, cap one or two points nearby and then drive your pios to the front, having an onboard MG to defend them.
With PE it's just as nice, since your Grens may probably man the onboard MG, just like the one on Wehr halftracks. And even if its completely disabled, they still may fire from the inside. Sounds well enough for me... I remember something I read about it... driver and 3 additional seats, but 4 passengers may be transported at the expense of comfort.
May actually work nice with the Squad mechanics of pe, when your 4-men-squads wont be able to enter your Schwimmwagen, so you either vote for more mobility or extra men in the field.
@ Flashpoint: No Russians or any other new faction = nothing to find out. I actually fully agree to what you are complaining about :-p
the schwimmwagen is tiny, smaller passenger room than a jeep, plus its engine was not very powerful, so the idea of using it as a troop transport (of more than 3 lightly equipped men) seems very unrealistic, and rather ridiculous as a game mechanic, to me. They were used mostly by the signal corps (don't know the german term) and some were commandeered by company commanders. They were not nearly as common as the kubelwagen...
So, they are much more interesting than a kubelwagon.
And I am sure it could accommodate 4 fully equipped soldiers. It may not be designed too, and it may not be comfortable, but I bet the Jerries could find a way and did.
That doesn't have to be its unique characteristic, but there are a lot of posts saying the schwimmwagon is retarded and shouldn't be in the game, so I took 2 seconds to put what I think would be an interesting mechanic for it.
In the beta there was the alternate Tiger skin as well. But I doubt that will come as a new unit.
well sure...but so could just about anything else, even a ketten...
by the way I don't think it is 'retarded', I'm all for more units, whatever they may be (variety is the blah blah blah) its just that as a selling point it seems a little mild to say the least
Yeah I also had the idea of the schwimmwagen as a tranport (I think I already posted it in the thread) especially for Wehr:
Only Pios could be carried (because there are only 2 seats left) but as a disadvantage the schwimmwagen couldnt hunt snipers down so well or something like that
#477
If it is only pios it seems rather underwhelming, then again, looking at things those new units don't seem to be for both armies, and i think the PE could have the most use of them to be honest, as battle taxis of a sort, quickly ferrying grenadiers to where they are needed.
How is the unit swap thing going to work? Is there a menu option or something to change from M8 to Staghound? And what, exactly, is the Schwimmwagen supposed to do? Is it just a buffed ket, or can you do something with it that you couldn't do with the old ket?
Irreverent derision is just one of the many quality services I provide.
It depends on the perspective you take. If the way the current engine utilises system resources limits it to a maximum of four armies, then it is reasonable to assert that the ENGINE cannot handle more than four armies. Unless Essence 2.0 it better optimized or uses a different architecture, then the same limitation will carry over to CoH2.Originally Posted by Mannerheim
Even though I have a powerful rig myself, I would be against raising the system requirements much higher. I say this because the current system requirements already seem to be beyond the majority of players online (a vast number of players only have 1 out of 5 on the peformance bar indicator system). This poor performance no doubt due to a combination of reasons ...
- Players have their settings too high
- Running Vista when the requirements were probably based on XP
- Game engine is not fully optimised
- Peer to peer architecture
- Networking issues
Personally, I'm not even sure that there is any need for more than four armies in a single game. Soulstorm allows for nine but is a very different beast with fewer animations; limited physics; simpler maps and environments.
BiteMeAgain makes a good point. There is nothing stopping Relic from releasing a new game (using Essence 1.0) which only features a Russian and German army with the setting on the Russian front. This would also free them up to add a further two armies in a expansion. There would have to be a separate multiplayer ladder to CoH/OF. But given CoH2 would also have to be a different ladder you would be no worse off.
I suspect the reason this isn't happening is because (a) they would prefer to use the Essence 2.0 engine for the next full CoH game and (b) they don't have sufficient staff/resources to create a full game based on Essence 1.0. Going with the ToV option allows them to push a CoH title out of the door with only 33%-50% of the effort compated to a full game.
@ MonMalthias:
As usual with ToV we don't know shit about what really might be of some interest. So this is all speculations. Actually, all we really really really know is that the Staghound will be there. No other unit was officially known, though the occurance of the schwimmwagen in the beta might be quite an indicator that it IS comming.
#481
Well, as far as I know the units wont be playable in ranked but you can tick a box in costum matches to enable them. The Staghound is a replacement for the M8 and Stuart, the Schwimmwagen is bascily a bike but can drive backwards, and will replace the Motorbike and the KettenKrad.
That's how it worked in the playtest, but it might change in ToV.
#482
@DribbleSack: wrong, its not ok to talk about engine limitations with this context since theres no hard cap for armies. As example the game engine handles 6-10 armies fine in same match with 2-4gb ram + more gfx card ram but it cant support more than 8 players in same game without heavy engine rework because how the code done (player arrays have fixed size and etc.).
Its possible to add Russians to game by 'blocking' some other army from the same match and in a way it would be realistic too ie. not to have both Brits and Russians but I don't think Relic likes to do things half way. Russians should come with winter theme and the amount of the changes related to that should and has to be a whole new game.
I understand what you are getting at about there not being a hardcap on the number of armies, but I didn't follow what you meant when you say 'the engine can't support more than 8 players in the same game'. No one is asking for more than 8 players in a game.
And whilst I agree that it would be nice to have some winter-themed maps, I think these are more closely associated with the The Battle of the Bulge than the Russian Front. Whilst the obviously were a number of key battles fought on the Eastern Front during the winter months, the majority of action took place in the spring and summer - as shown in this timeline.
@ Dribble:
Aaaw, yeah... the only two months of winter warfare the US saw in Europe... Don't make me cry. The whole damn Western front is a joke, compared to the Eastern Front 41 - 45 (not mid-44 till early 45).
Damn right, with that Timeline. Enough place for a lot of scenarios. And may be one or two missions from the ardennes, as a easteregg or something.
@ Mannerheim:
I still se no point why the Eastern Front requires a new game. They added some tilesets in Dow as well, if I am right... There is allways a way if you have the staff and the will to do something.
What upsets me most right now is the lack of changes. While I have no problem with playing some more scenarios in Normandy, i want some scenarios from OTHER theatres of war. Even that damn Bulge... But what are we going to see again? Some messed up french or dutch villages... well, how inovative! Never seen that before, at least in the last five months.
Eastern Front would be fun, but that requires whole new map models for differing architecture, flora, fauna, and terrain, as well as a whole new class system to accurately portray the Red Army that is also fun an balanced. Plus developing a feasible campaign from the later years of the war that meshes with the timespan of the earlier titles, that is, creating a German campaign where missions aren't all "stall and withdrawal".
Getting pummeled by Soviet artillery and T-34s for 12 missions doesn't sound that enjoyable. However, a dynamic meta-map style campaign like what was introduced in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade could be cool, where the player is given the opportunity to effect the outcome of a historically based campaign in a region made up of various skirmish maps.
#486
@DribbleSack: yeah well the 8 player thing was just an example of real engine limit that cant be changed fast
@Kosake: yeah there are several ways to get Russians to fit and work with current games but all ways require unrealistic solutions, giving up on something or doing kludgy solutions which is not something how Relic works. Like Hodgeh said above Eastern front has a bit different stuff so maps would need new objects etc.
@DribbleSack & Kosake: Players always want new and winter theme has good 'marketing' value and it would allow enough battles for campaigns like usa, germany, russian. They cant easily do both because winter means new everything and doing everything 2x is a lot of work so they probably would focus only one theme either summer or winter.
I think it will be cool
#488
Besides, if they are going to make it seperately from the rest, they might as well take the full step and make it a sequel and use that spiffy Essence Engine 2.0
When/Where can we see the new unites?
Yeah, I think it would be cool if Relic would reveal some other
new Units, especially for Wehr and PE...not only the "great" Schwimmwagen -.-
Well, actually, everything that was in use in some form of numbers is allready shown... I can not think of any other german armor that went beyond small series. What I miss with the british is the Mathilda-tank (I think it was MK2 or something the like numbered). And afaik there was something called crussader... But all german mainstay durig 44-45 is ingame, I believe...
#492
There is the Crusader, which was a greatly improved Cromwell, so it would be a bit unfair to add it unless the cost was increased greatly as well.
But for the Axis ? Yeah not much, i mean they could get the Panzer III.. and well, not a lot else is there ? Unless they add in more Panzer IV variants i suppose, or they could allow the Berg Tiger to be replaced by an actual Tiger i suppose...
Perhaps some other tank hunter than the Marder ? Something tougher but slower ?
Either that or add in some different Infantry i suppose, Waffen SS troopers perhaps ? But i suppose we will see when Relic finally decides to tell us more about it.
Errr...both matilda and crusader are much older tanks. Churchill is basically an improved matilda, cromwell an improved crusader. So I don't really want either matilda or crusader in the game thanks very much much
Imperial, I suspect what you meant was that the Comet was an improved Cromwell. Which is true. Slightly slower. Better armour, especially on the front. Gun was almost but not quite 17pdr. It started to enter service in late 1944 so if the Pershing fits the timescales, the Comet does even more so.
I've been saying for ages I'd love to see the Comet in the game, as a late doctrinal call in, ideally a new doctrine (e.g. Royal Tank Regiment). But I'm not sure what it could directly replace amongst the current units. The closest in capability is probably the Firefly.
#494
Right, the Comet.. always so bothersome with all those C's :P
But if they were to add a new doctrine, that would be interesting as well. But yeah, the firefly would be a good unit to replace with the Comet.
And yeah, the Matilda is an older tank, so not as strong as the churchill. Perhaps the brits could get some different emplacements ?
And we know that the Americans will get the Hellcat it seems, though not much else they can get or what ?
There are NO OP units, just too high effectivity/cost ratio units. KT is just OP because is free, a volks squad would be OP if itd cost 100 mp.
ToV can introduce super-strong vehicles, it only needs to be effectivity/cost balanced.
And I HOPE for super strong vehicles... schwimmwagen is ok... but I ned moar bacon!!
#496
The Schwimmwagen is kinda underwhelming compared to what the allies get..
#497
I think the 4-5 units are all we get, also based on beta IMO the Scwimmwagen for Wehrmacht is better than the 2 new AC cause of the ability to reverse its very useful vs Brit builders and USA snipers
I guess the best unlock is the Tiger if they still plan to allow it in mp.
#498
Really really hope the axis gets something more than the schwimmwagen it really seems underwhelming compared to the rest..
But let us see and wait, we most likely haven't seen all..
What is all this talk about nothing much else they could add for the factions? There are so many different armor and variations of armor for every major army alone. For infantry and support there would be hundreds for each major army. But, if you want all those you will have to play the most strategic WWII game ever made(they have also made modern combat), Combat Mission.
For the Wehr you could add a Panzerjäger I, give the Wehr a tank hunter. (http://www.onwar.com/tanks/germany/data/pzjager1.htm)
For the Americans add in the Sherman Jumbo to combat Panthers.
(http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...om.microsoft:*)
Maybe the ability to transport AT guns with half-tracks(they did this in WWII to move the AT guns around).
Give the British the Archer, which is a self propeled 17pdr.
(http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...oft:*%26sa%3DN)
Give the Archer a first strike ability.The rear mounting at first seemed like a liability, but it was soon made into an advantage. Combined with its low silhouette, the Archer made an excellent ambush weapon, allowing its crew to fire off a few shots, then drive away without wasting time turning around.
Though I would like to see the Achilles, it would make British majorly OP... (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...oft:*%26sa%3DN)
And just for laughs and OP-ness lets add in the Karl Morser German Heavy Assault Gun SU-600 "Tor" and/or the NK-101 for the PE. (http://www.tankmuseum.ru/p6.html)
Seriously though, for the PE you could add in anything since they already took stuff from the Heer(main German army).
Here is a big list of German armor:
(http://www.onwar.com/tanks/germany/index.htm)
Here is a big list of American armor:
(http://www.onwar.com/tanks/usa/index.htm)
And a big list of British armor:
(http://www.onwar.com/tanks/uk/index.htm)
Last edited by Flashpoint Gold; 12th Dec 08 at 9:49 AM. Reason: Accidently posted before finished...
Nice job, Flashpoint!!!
But as I said before: Anything that was out there in numbers by 44/45 is allready ingame. Only some freaky designs or super-heavy spa left over... (all German side I speak about).
And I do not see any possible use for a unit like the Jagdtiger or the like...
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