Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor (Now with a Trailer!)

[Imperial Dane]

Oi ! Let's try and stay on topic. And mr.powell, The hellcat will be different, otherwise relic would not add it in :P We already know it will have an MG added to it. So let's keep it at that before we go even further into our off road debate

The point of the new units are that they should present an alternative to the unit they exchange, and the hellcat might just present a faster yet weaker wolverine type with an mg also making it effective against infantry.

The staghound on the other hand would for the british give them something faster and more agile than the stuart with some added abilities most likely.
The american will apparently get the possibility to exchange their greyhound with a stuart, giving them a bit of an earlier armoured punch.. though i am not sure what abilities it could have to make it different from the british one.

Yet i am not sure what it is what will make the schwimmwagen different from what it is it will replace.. and i am curious as to what it is actually the axis will receive beyond that and the hotchkiss.

[mr.powell]

Well Imperial Dane we all know how "powerful" (ironically meant ) those tank mounted mgs are especially considering a paper armoured tank like the m18 ... but ok you are right lets see what relic will bring up in addition to those units cause who knows maybe one of my wet dreams will come true hehe and I will find after the installation of ToV suddenly the Pershing II also known as Super Pershing ingame during a skirmish (a direct combatant to the King Tiger) ... *Homer drool* ... .

Editin by Panzerjaeger: you could've deleted the text yourself, with the edit function

[DarkWarrior]

This probebly hasn't been mentioned, but I really hope for a improved soundtrack to the armies especialy the PE. Don't you agree?

[Imperial Dane]

Well more soundtracks would definately not go amiss and i could imagine there might be some more music. Although personally i am hoping for some new vehicle schemes for the wehrmacht and americans so they can get the same number as the british and panzer elite who have several versions for their vehicles.

[Mannerheim]

Yes, there will be two new vehicles for each of the four Armies in the game. You can choose to swap out old vehicles for these new vehicles, or not if they don’t fit your play style, it’s up to you. There are no new abilities for existing units for classic multiplayer.

http://www.gamereplays.org/companyof...nswers-january

almost guessed it right

[Panzer Jager]

Jeez, now even I'm getting discouraged. Tales of Valour is starting to sound less and less promising.. Mannerheim, you write better maps than these 'gametypes' for free than Relic can do in an expansion, and you write more.

Unless it's cheaper than a real expansion (like OF), I think I'll pass.
Shame. Was expecting more content. 3 'gametype' maps, 8 units, and 3 mini (not even full) campaigns just won't cut it for 50$, compared to the 2 entirely new Factions and 2 full campaigns OF had.

[[]inveigle[]]

CoH:ToV is around $29.

[Imperial Dane]

@Panzer Jager: It does not sound as promising as it could but then again.

Jeez, now even I'm getting discouraged. Tales of Valour is starting to sound less and less promising.. Mannerheim, you write better maps than these 'gametypes' for free than Relic can do in an expansion, and you write more

Any proof of this ? or is it just guessing on your behalf as to how the Tales of Valor writing is ?

Plus it's not 50$or it's equivalent.. more close to 30$, and that is in the land of high taxes mind you

To be honest i never expected a OF scale expansion as it basically always have been DLC that was given a little more filling.

[DribbleSack]

Imperial Dane - I don't mind people having an optimistic outlook but you seem to be straying into fanboy territory; jumping to Relic's defence even when there is no more evidence to back up your pov compared with that of other posters. Are you going to be as vocal when you are proven to be wrong and ToV turns out to be what many of us expect, i.e. a lacklustre uninspired SP focused expansion?

[Imperial Dane]

fanboy territory ? I am just asking for proof so i have something to look into, something to compare with.

And yes it is my point of view, that is what makes it mine :P And how is it overly Sp focused then ? The 3 mini campaigns, the one co op mode ? the 8 new units for multiplayer ? the 2 other multiplayer modes ? or the fact that all 4 factions are open to those who buy it yet not the campaigns that follow it ?

I also fail to see what supports your PoV of it being a lacklustre uninspired expansion

But as it is, next time, try to actually go for the arguments instead of me.

[sighman]

There's no real point discussing whether or not ToV is a worthy expansion, because to most of us on the forums, we are for the most part competitive players who rarely like to play on arty fests on crappy 3v3 maps. Its just that when you have looked at past expansions, at least they catered to both casual and frequent gamers so there was nothing wrong with them. This expansion, while it will rake in more money for Relic, and don't fool yourself this is always a business's main objective, does not really cater to the competitive gamers, which is why most of us are disappointed with it. Will it be successful? I have no doubt it will. But will it create the excitement that forum members had for previous expansions? Most definitely not.

[Imperial Dane]

True it does not have much for the competetive aspect beyond the new units (if they make it into automatch) And yes they have stated that they wanted to bring in new people, which is fair enough, a better focus allows for a better product. And who knows, there might be other expansions catering for the more competetive players.

But that does not mean it is casual 100%, there are other people than casual players and competetive players, there are those who like multiplayer and singleplayer stuff and also look forward to the new modes. Like me, i am rather looking forward to having two wehrmacht campaigns, panzerkrieg also sounds pretty cool plus 8 new units does open up for some interesting ideas (if they are added into automatch that is)

[Muad'Dib]

I personally don't play online anymore but rather go for huge LAN parties instead. So whether ToV sucks or not, all I can say is MODS WILL SAVE US!!!!

The 8 new units in MOD terms is actually 8 NEW units! Anyway, I thought there's supposed to be actual new units, but based on Thunder's interview it seems they'll only be replacement units. Weird I suppose they're going for the "Pimp up your army" before going to war strategy.

Finally, the new units are (from what I read here):

US - Hellcat
Wher - Hotchkiss
Brits - Kangaroo, Staghound
PE - Schwimmwagen

What else did I miss?

[cf_nz]

we are for the most part competitive players

To be fair though what could Relic have added in an expansion to appeal to the competitive multiplayer that would not have had them whining like 2 year olds?

[Pyros]

New preview at GameSpy:

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/company-of-.../949942p1.html

Looks like the second mission is La Fiere.

[InsaneDruid]

@sighman: Then what would the "competitive player" have liked? (besides "perfect balance - which can only be achived by mirror units on mirror maps)

From my 2 decades game experience I learned the lession that the so called "pro" gamers tend to deny ANYTHING new or different to their once learned gameplay. Then, some years later exactly the first unliked things have transformed to something beloved, and whan a new expansion/game etc comes out it all starts again.

I mean, remember the "the 2 new factions killed coh" cries? Now there is an addon that dont bring new factions and the cries are heared that no new factions is something very bad.

[Monkey Soldier]

US - Hellcat
Wher - Hotchkiss
Brits - Kangaroo, Staghound
PE - Schwimmwagen

As for the U.S., I suspect they're putting the M24 Chaffee in. It's one of the few tanks that were used by the U.S. in Europe. (that were designed by Americans) IMHO, it seems to be the best option for them. Maybe as a M4 replacement? Lower silhouette, less armour, about the same main gun. Seems reasonable, doesn't it?

I'm not too sure what they'll add for the Wehr. Maybe a captured AMD Panhard 178 (which had both a 25mm gun and a 47/50mm gun, but I'm not sure whether they were used in The Netherlands/ France)

As for the PE, maybe the Jagdpanzer IV. They were used by the Panzer Lehr Division, seen here. It could function as a Hetzer/ Pz IV replacement?

[Imperial Dane]

The chaffee was a light tank was it not ? hardly seems like a proper replacement for the Sherman.. Then again, who knows ?

ALso in a gamespy preview the Schwimmwagen has been confirmed as being a wehr replacement for the bike, so the PE will most likely get the hotckiss along with something else. Not sure what that is though.

-<snip>- GeoffS

[Monkey Soldier]

The chaffee was a light tank was it not ? hardly seems like a proper replacement for the Sherman.. Then again, who knows ?

Well, it was armed with a 75mm gun, so yeah, who knows.
Thinner armour, more speed (good for flanking) and about the same main gun. Seems to me to be a good option for the Sherman. :P

[GeoffS]

Posts deleted. Criticism of Relic and the game is OK, but when it degenerates into angry ranting, it's going to be deleted.

[Phinor]

"CoH:ToV is around $29."

Sadly that doesn't seem to be true at least not in Europe. The cheapest pre-order I could find is 34.90€ which equals roughly to $46. And that's pre-order! Pre-ordering usually gets you the game slightly cheaper.

I mean I suppose they can still change the pricing but I just don't see that happening. In any case the price right now is 15€ higher than Opposing Fronts was at release. I'm just not seeing that much more content in ToV over OF..

[Tseng_Fox]

As for the PE, maybe the Jagdpanzer IV. They were used by the Panzer Lehr Division, seen here. It could function as a Hetzer/ Pz IV replacement?

That would be so awesome.

I was sad they left out the Jagdpanzer IV.

[Imperial Dane]

@Phinor: it also depends on where you live, here in denmark i can get it pretty cheap and about the standard price for an expansion, that is 199kr. Which is about 34$ give or take. Not sure where you live though.

@Tseng_Fox: Nothing preventing it coming in as far as i can see, if it is for the PE or the Wehrmacht.

[Panzer Jager]

Thunder said each faction gets 2 Units.

PE=Scwhimmwagen and Hotchkiss H35.

However they also said ToV will open up the capability for Downloadable Content; stuff may be added later, but it will not ship with ToV and it's going to be some time before the first set ships.

[Imperial Dane]

Actually the schwimmwagen is for Wehrmacht if i understand the latest preview right.

One of Holman's favorites is the new Schwimmwagen Type 166, an amphibious scout car with better armor that can move in reverse. "You have no idea how many players have asked for some sort of alternative to the motorcycle," he said brightly.

and from the look of things, the Hotchkiss will be unlocked from the american campaign..

Also i suppose the DLC might feature additional units if the first 8 turn out right

[Sinogrim]

I wonder what the US gets or the Brits o_O

[Imperial Dane]

Well we know the Americans get the Hellcat, what else they might get i do not know.. But.. i have a theory, perhaps there was something to the talk about the americans being able to exchange their greyhound with a light tank.. but perhaps it was not the stuart.. Perhaps it was the Chaffee.. or perhaps it wasn't and computerandvideogames.com just has completely inept previewers :P

For the brits we know they are getting the Kangaroo and the Staghound.

[sighman]

@sighman: Then what would the "competitive player" have liked? (besides "perfect balance - which can only be achived by mirror units on mirror maps)

From my 2 decades game experience I learned the lession that the so called "pro" gamers tend to deny ANYTHING new or different to their once learned gameplay. Then, some years later exactly the first unliked things have transformed to something beloved, and whan a new expansion/game etc comes out it all starts again.

I mean, remember the "the 2 new factions killed coh" cries? Now there is an addon that dont bring new factions and the cries are heared that no new factions is something very bad.

Firstly, perfect balance is a fallacy in RTS gaming. Reasonably good balance is more like it, which is more or less what competitive players want. Developers can do if they do two things to achieve what competitive players want: first add new factions which work well with what made the game in question stratological and fun. As much as people whine that OF ruined CoH, the hype for it proves that people wanted more, but the delivery of the expansion was bad because the factions did not fit in properly with the how elements in vCoH worked: it filled the game with more hard counters, more blobbing, less dependance on auxiliary resources and connecting territory, doctrines were of poor choice etc etc. This might sound like Pro gamers do not want a "change" in gameplay, but rather it is a "degradation" of vCoH's gameplay. Second, they can support the introduced factions via patching to iron out any stat imbalances. Relic has achieved the latter aspect, but because certain things about the OF factions were fundamentally flawed, they can not satisfy players without changing the degrading design features of said factions.

If ToV was to hypothetically feature new factions, even the "pro" players would be happy deep down because there would always be that chance that maybe the factions would fit with the gamestyle that was unique to the original CoH experience. But of course, based on OF, the players would say they are disappointed because they expect it to be the same as the crappiness brought from OF's degradation of what made CoH great.

[Sinogrim]

How can the US get a Hellcat? Istn't that a plane?

[Imperial Dane]

Behold, the m18 Hellcat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M18_Hellcat

and while we are at it, the m24 chaffee :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Chaffee

[Sinogrim]

ow, tanks. So, the Hellcat would replace the M10 I'm presuming?

[say1988]

Yes, the F6F Hellcat was a plane, but they are getting a different hellcat, the M18 Hellcat, a tank destroyer, which was more lightly armoured and faster than the M10, and with basically the same gun, but in game it appears it can get its mounted .50cal (like the Sherman).

[Imperial Dane]

I would assume that the hellcat replaces the Wolverine.

I know that the Staghound replaces the Stuart and that the schwimmwagen replaces the Recon Bike.. After that ? Speculation.

[Pyros]

I am going to guess that Wafflegood is right. The Hellcat is in the TankWars/Panzerkrieg mode as one of the units you use, so it'd have to be effective at taking out tanks, so I don't think it'd be a Wolverine replacement. The M10 is missing from this mode, so it would seem that the Hellcat is indeed its replacement.

[Imperial Dane]

Don't you mean M4 ? Otherwise you're contradicting yourself

Otherwise curious in what else will be revealed here in February.

[D-DayOmaha]

Hmm hopefully the Schwimmwagen will be the missing piece in the puzzle to have boats and other watercraft, assuming that they finally made water passible.

[Panzer Jager]

Water is passable, just light water.
PE Schwimm moves faster in water than Wehr Schwimm, or the Bikes they replace. Probably just a minor bug that the Wehr Scwhimm isn't as fast, but in all seriousness it doesn't matter, and it's just Alpha version data I'm looking at.

[Kosake]

@ Dane: most likely they won't reveal anything, that was not allready revealed by Pyros and the other modders. I noticed, that since all kinds of hackers and crackers ripped CoHO and the beta apart and told the masses what they have found, the interviews are just streaming in on a nearly daily basis but without telling anything that is not allready spooking the web.

Though I have heared somewhere, that just vehicles will be replaced, I have a nice idea for a british replacement. I played over the PE campaign lately and encountered several squads of British Sappers with flamethrowes. Now that would be a nice upgrade, instead of the piat squads for example. They are not used much anyways - as far as I have noticed (PE player myself) - and end up shreddered by my P IV isv's most of the time. A inf-bound flame-thrower would add some punch to the otherwise rather boring british rifles.

[Imperial Dane]

Suppose they could have a small bonus in water :P Though i can't see how a schwimmwagen will actually have any impact on a force composition like say a hotchkiss tank with an additional Stuka Rocket upgrade.

But it's a bit hard to speculate on it considering we don't know much else than that it is in and it will be replacing the motorcycle (for which i assume the Wehrmacht will get it)

@Kosake: Perhaps, although a part of me would find it sad if there were no surprises in store at all. And so far not all holes have been filled, so they might have realised what they were doing and stopped adding the last units :P

And who knows, things might come later on. I think it depends on how well the first 8 go, how well they are received and if they actually make an impact.. and if that impact is good :P

[Kosake]

As for the Schwimmwagen, I think that is a pretty cool unit in terms of style and generall coolnes. what I can not see is the use of a waterproof vehicle. now, just for a moment, imagine your motorcycle would be able do ford water faster. Now imagine a large swamp... an even more flooded version of dregplaats or something like that. Really a place where you could actually use this perk, I am not speaking of a small river, wich takes your rifles 5 seconds and the bike 4 seconds.
So yes, your schwimmwagen / bike is crushing the waves and driving well ahead of all your other troops. and what then? it runs into a bunch of rangers and gets it motor blasted to pieces. If if would be an additional amphibious unit in an elaborate system of amphibious warfare - well, great! but coh is kind of dry at the moment. Can't imagine much use from this....

[Imperial Dane]

Yeah then it might be cool, but as you said, not going to happen either :P And if it's only difference is it can reverse.. Well, can't see a major reason to take it instead of the regular recon bike.. Nor how it would affect one's gameplay style as i mentioned. Sort of that i am looking for

[Kosake]

As oposed to the hotchkiss with wurfrahmen. That should be a godsent for any PE player, especially when facing british emplacements. I wonder, what the regular wehrmacht will recieve... With 8 additional units we allready have pretty much known by now.
Hellcat + Stuart / Staghound >> US
Kangaroo + Staghound >> Brit
Schwimmwagen (???)+ Hotchkiss >> PE
Schwimmwagen (???) + ???? >> Wehr

And on a sidenote: what happened to that recoilless jeep???

[say1988]

Campaign only? Or the preview was BS and the US gets it instead of the jeep.

If there are only 8 units, there should be 8 different new units (i.e. one side gets Schwimmwagen, and US doesn't get Stuart)

The one preview said that the Schwimmwagen can capture points. If the Wehr gets that ability, and the vehicle is weakened in another way that is a huge difference.

[Panzer Jager]

Recoilless Jeep (if it IS implemented) might be SP only. Same with Boys AT Rifles? (again, the IF)

Wehr will probably get the Hotchkiss AT Gun version, instead of the H35.

[Tseng_Fox]

Schwimmwagon seems a bit of a cop out to be honest. Other armies get armoured cars and tanks and so far axis only get a bike replacement and a single tank (hotchkiss).

Lets hope they balance out the units a bit more.

[Savage Noble]

I'm not thrilled about this replacement business. What is the point in replacing something from the game, if the M18 is truly different gameplay-wise than the M10, with it being faster, with an MG but lightly armoured, ADD it, don't replace it. Same for the rest.

The French H-35 is a ridiculous choice, considering all the other candidates.

[Mills022]

I think of replacement units as similar to making your five kits in Call of Duty 4 before a match. It adds strategy by making you decide what you might need in the upcoming battle and you are going to have to make concessions because you aren't going to be able to access everything. What I don't like though, is that there are only 8. IMO, nearly every unit should have a replacement.

[Imperial Dane]

Well if the Wehrmacht get the Geshtutzwagen as a replacement for the StuG.. that is.. a functional StuG :P .. then the Wehrmacht does seem to get the very short end of the stick in this case with nothing actually interesting compared to the other armies. Just more functional versions of what they already have :/

@Feldmarshall: It forces you to think by considering what you actually need in your force and what suits your playstyle, and in teamgames some deeper strategies might even appear..

@Mills: More than 8 units would have been nice that is for sure. But who knows ? We might get more depending on how well the first 8 turn out, all speculation of course.

[InsaneDruid]

Well you would not want to use the lightest vehicle in your army as an attacking force late game (rangers). As you won't see many jeeps as the spearhead for an allied assault.

But if its faster then the bmw krad, can reverse (and thus kite) then it migth be a real nice harassment/scouting vehicle in early game, and a decent scouting/sniper hunting unit lategame. Just a better krad, but better anyways.

[Imperial Dane]

Well that is assuming that the Panzer Elite gets it, in which case they get the schwimmwagen and the hotckiss, and for them i imagine it would be more of a boon if they got an armed schwimmwagen.