Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor (Now with a Trailer!)

[Kosake]

Someone swore to refrain from optimism not to many posts ago...

And thats exactly the point: I do not believe in future DLC and more expansions. I can not imagine a third expansion for CoH anyways. Games do not recieve expansions years after release. This just does not happen.
DLC may or may not appear, but I certainly won't do any online transactions or buy my games other than in a neat shiny CD-case so that's nothing I want to see. In fact, I am strictly against any paid DLC. When I was young, we called DLC a "patch" and gamedevelopers made them "free" that means without the need to pay for it.

So I have kind of settled with the idea of ToV being anything but good and usefull. Still, there are ways to make it reasonable with little effort and that's what I am hinting at.

[Imperial Dane]

I don't recall ever swearing to refrain from it.

And just because you do not believe does not mean that no one else can either.

While ToV might not seem that overly interesting to you, it does seem intereting to me. 2 Wehrmacht campaigns plus a few new units.. and hopefully some fun Multiplayer modes. And who knows where else it can go from there ?

and are you even sure that what you mention is a "little effort" ? Just out of curiosity :P

[Kosake]

Perfectly sure. See, the big deal is coding the function of replacement, since that was not in the game. Once this is done, I think you could replace the Panzer IV with a squad of flamethrower-equipped sappers in less than 10 minutes work. Just because they are allready in the files.

New units require a lot of work. You need to investigate about them, watch some photos, videos if avaible. Discuss on role and function, make models and skins, bugfix and balance the whole thing, all the proces. I am not into the process myself, but I guess it would take a team of three or four guys buisy for at least a whole day, probably more than that.

Besides, my disbelief is not personal opinion. Just name a game, that got expanded years after the base-game hit the shelves. (OK, there are a lot of MMO-RPGs out there that have more expansions then I can count but they live and die with new content). Most games recieve their stuff a year, say two after the original title. And by the third year you talk about the second part, not expansion.

Wehr campaigns are great, but 6 missions? I believe OF had seven for the PE camp.
And I fear the new modes won't be as great as you hope. Take dota for instance. Since the last version I played was numbered something like 6.32 I guess, the former ones were not free of bugs or balance issues. With the current flow of patches, you'll learn to hate one or other overpowerd class even before the first patch will arrive. Same will go for the other mods, mark my words.

[Imperial Dane]

But then you have to remember those units you allow to replace with, would they fit in with army ? Would they be balanced within that context ?

Just imagine if Panzer Elite players could easily get a Regular Panzer IV ? How would that all of a sudden work out ? Plus it would probably need a little skinwork to fit in with the Panzer Elite schemes.
And should it have some ability like the Panzer IV infantry support tank ?

Then comes the question, what should the wehrmacht get ?

And while all this probably isn't a colossal task, it isn't the 1 day job that you mention either.

Also we do not know if the other campaigns will be 3 missions only, though of course it might be possible.

[Kosake]

I believe it was said in the last two interviews. 3 campaigns; 3 to 4 missions each. Since Evil germinz have two campaigns, I think the Allied one will have 4 missions while the germans have to do with 3 missions each due to shortages caused by allied bombings.

All I wanted to point out is the option to allow for more interchargable units with a decreased amount of work. Skins are easily made. I bet there are dozens of modders who would gladly donate cool models. And the realy clever guys out there make a competition of it. Kind of "who makes the best model". Winner's model makes it into the game and the modder gets a T-Shirt with CoH / Relic logo. All in all, you must agree, that it is more simple to add an allready existing unit, with litle itterations maybe than adding something totally new.

Wehr could get the AT-HT for instance, replacing PaK 38 or StuG. Instead of the Halftrack you could add the Armored car, Panzer IV <--> Panzer IV ISV. There are enough options. It's not a matter of possibilities, i'ts a matter of good will. I do not consider OF to be rushed in any way. You got two rather small but still nice Campaigns, two whole new armies and the king tiger for Wehr. But ToV really seems like an experiment in the field of making maximum money with minimal efforts.

[Imperial Dane]

It is easier to add in one of the already present unit with some changes. But right now with the team they have got, i think things are already a bit stretched :/ Not saying it could not be done later on.

But right now i am more interested in actually seeing all the new units and how they actually play out in the game.

Also you have to remember, ToV was never intended to be a huge expansion like OF. Which is probably one of the reasons why they don't have that many people. It was basically DLC that got notched up to Expansion status, but around that time they probably did not have a lot of people to spare from any of the other projects. Why i imagine the full extent of Tales of Valor is not as grand as Opposing Fronts.

[Kosake]

And thats what I criticize as well. I do not want to pay two times 30 bucks for small expansions. I prefere to pay one time 50 bucks for a major one. Just because it is cheaper, apparently faster, and reduces the necessary amount of CDs, patches and other shit.
I hate this "we can do it afterwards" policy. No one does anything afterwards. All this leads to "it's done when it's done", disbanded teams of programmers, or random excuses why this and that had priority to doing what you actually wanted to see a year ago.

[Imperial Dane]

"We can do it afterwards policy" ? Must admit i have not seen much of that :/

Just making suggestions as to what might be done afterwards once tales of valour is out. As it is we really don't know their plans which makes it a bit hard to make any solid judgements (at least for me) and so far it is just one small expansion, unless you call OF a small one as well.

In any case, let's stop this now before we go Completely Off topic. If you don't care for Tales of Valor, fine.. But then, why are you here ?

[ShiftyShadow]

He is probably here because he loves Company of Heroes, like most of us do. And I think he has some good points there.

Relic's record in regard to promised features that in the end were missing is not the best. Just think of the team automatch feature which was supposed to be in vanilla CoH. I also remember that Opposing Fronts was supposed to have new game modes, which in the end it never had. Hell, it even says that on the box of the game. I call that fraud. Or what about the promised idea of rain actually having a gameplay changing effect rather than just being eyecandy. Then there was talk about supporting custom maps in game.

Let's face it: ToV loks like a fucking sad excuse for an expansion. 12 mini missions, 2 new units per faction, lame ass game modes that do not even reach the quality of the community made maps or mods. They should hire Mannerheim and Henry666 instead. Milking the cash cow on loyal customers, anyone? I certainly hope they want not more than 15 € for it.

I probably would not be that pissed off if Relic actually had released the "beta-1-year-neverending-story" patch by now to finally please the multiplayer community. But no, they "encountered random problems", "are low on manpower", or do not even communicate with us at all. So now we all have to wait till March or April.

It is not easy to be a Relic supporter seeing their piss poor efforts during the last 18 months. I wish I had your rose-coloured glasses, Imperial Dane.

[CommissarRezail]

is tov dlc free? or a pay expanssion pack, because i must admit i havent still seen nothing really...

[senseo1990]

30$ Expansion pack

[Imperial Dane]

It's a pay for expansion pack.. and true, there really hasn't been a lot to see at all so far :/

Which is a move i cannot really agree with to be honest. Especially a video showing of the Direct fire mode would have been a good move in the start to dampen the apparent confusion there is about it.

[CommissarRezail]

Wow and this is suppose to release in april and still haven't shown much and they want 30 dollars @.@?

[Imperial Dane]

Well it is a few months to april/march/whenever-they-decide-to-release-it.

Can't really say much about their marketing efforts except that they might not be the best...
Not sure what the hell they are getting at except that they are risking it being lost completely in DoW 2 stuff.

[Celution]

You know, it's not like Opposing Fronts, where they made a whole site which showed all new units that are in the game. Instead, they just show a few things to make us curious, and I can asure you, Tales of Valor will have alot of new things, even I have no proof. ~I can't wait untill March 13th, when it will be released~ . There are just so many things they didn't show to us, or they did show us, but with very little detailed explanations or screenshots. And personally, I think Relic will add some things that have been mentioned here on the forum.
i think it will be worth the $29.95 for Tales of Valor.

By the way, does anyone has some nice new eye candy from Tales of Valor?

[Imperial Dane]

Nope, no new screenshots, though i have from reliable sources that a Developer diary should appear this week.

[senseo1990]

I wanna be super-optimistic too =(
But Im more of the "Ahh Im sure it will suck-guy" and then if its cool I transform myself to the "Hoooraaay!I always knew that it'll rock-guy" =)

As long as we get tons of new maps Im going to buy it...I'll also buy it if we dont get tons of new maps...just to support relic.

[Imperial Dane]

Well i am pretty sure that new maps will make it into the game along with the new modes and units. I mean they have had a poll asking what kind of new maps we would like to see.

So i would assume that they have something planned in that regard.

But so far what interests me the most would be the Two Wehrmacht campaigns (Finally !) the panzerkrieg mode and the new units (specifically the axis ones )

[Panzer Jager]

Wehrmacht is getting one campaign, with 3 levels.. no?

[YurdleTheTurtle]

@Panzer Jager:Technically Wehrmacht gets two, since Tiger Ace counts as one, and the other involves the Wehrmacht army for Falaise Pocket.

Although if it makes you happy, we can always pretend the Tiger Ace campaign is PE.

@Commissar: You're actually surprised? That's how marketing works sometimes. I mean, look at DoW 2 - We didn't even find out about certain information until way later.

That's why I keep staying in the 'neutral zone', asking everyone to wait until all the information is out before criticizing the game.

[Panzer Jager]

I meant where you play as Wehrmacht.. not the vCoH US campaign. However if I missed something, can I get a link?

[YurdleTheTurtle]

@Panzer Jager: That's what I meant. Wehrmacht gets two campaigns. As in you play two Wehrmacht campaigns - Tiger Ace and Falaise Pocket. I have no idea where you got vCoH US Campaign from..that's Invasion of Normandy. Not sure what kind of link you need, but here's one: http://www.thq.com/games/gameinfo.php?id=1359&upc=49391

Causeway is the new American paratrooper campaign. As mentioned before, I'm interested in this one because it is based on the story that over 100 men tried to cross something and only 1 survived. Am I the only one who thinks that's epic and sad?

[Imperial Dane]

Indeed, and so far the only campaign we know to have 3 missions is The Tiger Ace one, and i recall from an early interview that they talked about other campaigns having more than that.

[Crazy Ivan]

I'm probably wrong, and they're just Pershings at odd angles, but in Yurdle's link, the Two tanks facing down the KTs, the ones with the Calliope support, Look like Chafees.

I for one would welcome new Chafee overlords.

[Imperial Dane]

Actually i think they are hellcats if we are talking about the same screenshot as i do believe the two tanks are open in the top. But with those small screenshots, it is a bit hard to see.

[Kosake]

I think the Pershing would be more distinctive when standing near a Sherman. Afaik, it was not really flat, contrary to those whatevers on the pictures. on the other side, the low resolution may be showing uns anything, starting with wrecked jeeps...

[Imperial Dane]

Don't think those are jeeps, but they are definately not something from CoH or OF, so either hellcats, or possibly Chafffees as suggested. Might also explain why computerandvideogames.com said the americans would get stuarts.. perhaps they can't tell the difference :P

[Muad'Dib]

Do any of you know if ToV will fix the problem with custom maps? (Where they can be played online ala the CoH Launcher) Has there been any mention of a fix?

[TasteLikeCrab]

i'm jus not gonna be fanboish and pull wool over my eyes over the expectations. the fact is, based on what they have revealed so far its not worth the £25 (that's like $45 or so) retail price.

having said that, i do hope there is more ot the game. but as we grow closer to the release date, it seems more and more like a few hastily bundled units, a few game modes and some short campaigns (with no real multiplayer/replay value)....

for that its just not worth the money. i sincerely hope i'm wrong. but i'm afraid i just might be right.

[Q77]

Actually...25 pnd = 37 US$ right now :-P

I think most will still buy it once the game is out and the first replays,screenshots and stories pop up It will itch.

[Imperial Dane]

@tastelikescrab: Nobody said you have to pull wool over your eyes, if you don't like what is offered, no one is forcing you to buy it

I mean from what i have seen it seems well worht the price, and i've already pre-ordered. Maybe i'll be wrong and it will be awful, then again, it might actually be pretty good.
And for someone who has never played the game before, i think it's a pretty good offer.

[TasteLikeCrab]

@imperial dane: where did i say i'm being forced to buy it?

[Kosake]

I think that will be another problem for the old core comunity.
I figured, there are two types of expansions: Those aimed at the old players, meaning hard, intense campaign missions and exciting gameplay and the type that adresses new players, offering more or less a second tutorial. Judging by the immense lenght of three whole missions, I assume, ToV will fall in that second pattern. So the campaigns may not even fill your morning, if you allready know the drill.

[Imperial Dane]

@tasteslikecrab: Well the first line had hints of it :P

@Kosake: I think you might be judging too early on this and making some hasty assumptions, although to be honest, i will admit have had the same thoughts, i mean it does not look like at first glance to contain anything interesting for us veterans.

I mean stuff like the Schwimmwagen doesn't exactly sound very promising Rather the opposite :/

Not sure what changed my mind back into being positive, but i couldn't really fault the campaigns as such, i mean albeit they are short in being somewhere between 3 and 4 missions (the only one we know is 3 missions long is the Tiger Ace campaign)

I could not really speak of the content much either though, and the falaise pocket campaign did cause me to clap my hands in childish glee when i first saw it (An actual Wehrmacht campaign !)

and the ideas behind the multiplayer modes do not sound too bad either.. although a part of me hopes for some automatch mode for them.. never really liked going through lobbies to get a game.

I mean the Panzerkrieg sounds pretty cool, and a part of me could imagine some of it's mechanics being taken further on to tanks in general, with a few armoured cars as well. That idea also holds apart of my imagination, which is probably why i also look rather favorably on Tales of Valor.

Plus it probably helps that i've always known that tales of valor was never meant to be a huge expansion, meaning not too high expecatations in the first place :P

In the end it's a matter of personal choice, yeah it probably does look like it caters to newcomers a great deal, but it doesn't look like it is forgetting the veterans either and giving them the finger.
The biggest boon to the newcomers is that they get all 4 armies basically, that and operation stonewall seems rather much for them (although i am sure the rest of us can enjoy it as well once in a while )

The rest ? Well that is harder to judge, albeit the new units and the strategic implications they can bring and what might follow in their wake is probably one of the most interesting things about this entire expansion to be honest IMHO.

But those are just my thoughts on this thing. Perhaps i do carry rose tinted glasses like some darker hearts claim i do , or perhaps i just have a different opinion and taste than theirs :P

[Imperial Dane]

Just a small update, but the first Developer Diary is up at the Company of heroes community site:

http://community.companyofheroesgame...r-ace-campaign

Hope the mods don't mind me doubleposting as it would not make much sense to create a new thread for this.

[Grimgork]

Sounds like an effort for SP, really. Unlike many others I'm quite excited for TOV and unlike many others I do not want vCOH back. The more content, the better.
But I play MP only and I think there may be a chance that new modes will bring some fresh blood in good ol' CoH. If it will be worth the money, I don't care. Nowadays you get ripped off anyways if you play video games... just face it. I mean, have you played Knothole Island? Or lately bought Soulstorm just to have a look on DOW? I did...

[Kosake]

The mods won't mind it, but i kind of miss any real information... did they actually mention anything of value?? Apart from the S-Mines they did not mention anything, we didn't knew before.

[Imperial Dane]

Hmm.. Looks like the Geschutzwagen is the second wehrmacht unit, or so i would judge by the camoscheme from this screenshot and the fact that it does not look like any other Wehrmacht vehicle.

http://community.companyofheroesgame...sist/popup/459

Of course i suppose it could be a Self propelled artillery vehicle. Which would be nicer since as far as i understand, the geschutzwagen is a StuG replacement.. which considering that the StuG right now is a pretty sorry excuse for well.. anything Well i think the StuG might be forgotten if this one can actually do some damage to tanks

[Kosake]

What's that ugly piece of tracked junk??? Looks like something too heavy and pretty immobile to me. I honestly doubt it, but what you found may be some kind of open top Ferdinand or something like that. This one looks pretty strange... can it be a hummel maybe? never looked from behind at them...

PS: I like StuGs. They beat the crap out of Stuarts, M8 and Churchills. And once they have some Vet, they can be really annoying.

[Imperial Dane]

Well if it is a geschutzwagen as have been speculated at earlier, then the reason it's so clunky is because it's basically a french tank converted into a StuG replacement...

Which would not make sense for the Wehrmacht i think as it would not do much... well except be a better one :/ Which is kinda sad for the StuG, Which can be good against the vehicles you mention.. if it can actually have them stay on target And against a Sherman it is useless as it will barely dent the bloody thing, i mean it already takes a long time to aim, hasn't got a turret, why make it any worse against tanks ? :P

Whatever the case, it might also be a mobile field artillery as the major who made the conversions also made some using field artillery, sort of a lighter hummel if you will. Which would actually add some variety into the Wehrmacht arsenal, which i assume is the purpose of the new units.

But i suppose we will see, for now though we know the wehrmacht units.. unless the schwimmwagen is for the Panzer Elite.

[Panzer Jager]

Posts have been deleted. Please stay relevant to Tales of Valor.

[TasteLikeCrab]

So any new updates on doctrines? I remember hearing there MAY be new doctrines for each faction with ToV. is that still conjecture or has this been substantiated?

would awesome to have alternative doctrines added for jus ToV players. then it would totally make the expansion worth buying - u get the same factions but iwth ToV u get 1 new doctrine each so players who own all 3 could play 4 factions with 4 doctrines.

imagine if PE's new doctrine had a Tiger Ace as the last RHS option and a Sturmtiger as the last LHS option. that would so rock. It would also add additional option for artillery to the PE faction so players dont feel they HAVE to go scorched against dug in brits. Also it would make PE feel a bit more 'panzer-ish'.

For US the only thing left i can think of is Artillery Company (or 'Battery' rather), but they could do something like have Marine Corps as a doctrine . If they go with ARtillery company I bet M7 priests will be part of the deal. and maybe they could build defensive capabilities around the US.

[YurdleTheTurtle]

I don't think new doctrines were ever announced, and I don't think they exist.

However, in the campaigns the doctrines are changed into skill trees of sorts. If you visit the official CoH forum's update, you'll find out exactly what I mean in the last screenshot.

Also note that there are some new abilities and stuff that were made for the Tiger Ace campaign, like the S-mines. There were forum talks and Thunder gave the typical "It was designed for single player and is not going into multiplayer right now. However that won't stop future plans of something like that. I can't say anything more or else I'll get shot" (Major paraphrasing, but that is basically what was said)

Edit: Found the quote:

The Tiger in the Tiger Ace campaign was really created to be the most badass tank we could make, with the idea of it stopping a British Armoured Column by itself. The tank and its abilities weren't exactly dreamed up for multiplayer or balance in mind. ...perhaps some of them will end up in multiplayer at some point, but we have to be very mindful of balance when we do that sort of thing.

[Lethal Dosage]

No, that is a Geschutzwagen, not a Hummel. I agree it looks like a vehicle for Wehr being that it has a camo skin pattern, as opposed to the field-grey all PE vehicles have (i don't think they'd add 1 camo vehicle to PE now). There's also the fact that there's a Motorbike in the screenshot, promotional and map-loading screens rarely if ever show two factions of the same side, plus we've already seen a field-grey Hotchkiss in a screen with a PE Munitions HT, so i think it's pretty well sorted who we can (reliably) guess gets which variation.

[Celution]

Can't the Geschützwagen be the Hotchkiss with a mounted 10,5cm lefH18, and not a AT-gun? They look almost the same.

[Imperial Dane]

@Lethal Dosage: Actually the PE actually have several variations of colour schemes for vehicles, while the Wehrmacht basically got one.

@Celestial: That is sort of the thing i have been wondering as well, as with an AT gun it would be more of a StuG replacement.. which basically means a more functional StuG :P But one with a 10,5cm lefH18 would add in some more dynamics to be honest and offer more of an interesting choice... well when the StuG has been improved that is :P

@Yurdle: Yup, that would be correct as far as i see it. Rather hope for some to make it into multiplayer at a later time

[Kosake]

If that thing is a sort of Stug replacement, you will want your StuG back pretty soon. With that open top superstructure, it's widh and aparently roots in french engineering, it will be an easy target, contrary to the good profile of the Stug.

I think it is the arty version. Look at that big explosion in the back... just the place where the tank is facing towards...May be coincidence, but it would fit if it were an artillery unit.

[Imperial Dane]

True, but then, relic might balance it to actually be able to do damage to tanks :P In essence making it a Wehrmacht Marder with better Anti infantry capabilities i imagine.

But yeah, the big explosion had me think it might be the artillery version, which would be more interesting to be honest.

[Panzer Jager]

Actually the PE actually have several variations of colour schemes for vehicles, while the Wehrmacht basically got one.

What? All PE Vehicles are grey, all Wehrmacht Vehicles have their own unique camouflage.

[Imperial Dane]

Yes, all wehrmacht vehicles have their own camo scheme, but not all PE vehicles are grey.. Otherwise i've got a faulty version :P As i've noticed a few colours, including a dark green, a black and one that looks like rust.