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I was excited when i first heard about tov, since i recently finished OF. But then i heard about the "direct control" thing and i got the impression that is what the expansion evolves around. In other words gimmick. And now this trailer which could have been original coh for all we know since it isnt much to look at in terms of new things. Now im not going to bash it before we know more. But the trailer leaves much to be desired thats all im saying.
Some good info from that worthplaying interview...(http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=57983)
"We're also looking at introducing new multiplayer vehicles into the game. You'll be able to take those vehicles and swap them out for an existing vehicle in your army, and we're introducing vehicles for all four armies in Company of Heroes and Opposing Fronts. So for example, a new vehicle is a staghound. You'll be able to swap that out for another vehicle in the British army, and it'll have different abilities and a different functionality, so it'll play a slightly different role than the existing vehicle, so you can basically customize the army to your type of game or play style."
Previously people speculated that the new units were simply replacement "skins" (different models, same functionality). Actually having the units have different abilties, etc. will make multi a bit more fun in that you won't know for certain what you are up against when playing against a certain faction. It also will make SP (Comp Stomp, I'm part of that "25%") more fun, in that you can customize your army and try different tactics.
"We also have multiplayer modes that we're introducing, so those modes will let you play Company of Heroes in a different way. They're not the traditional capture the victory points or annihilate mode. One of the modes that we're working on is called Invasion, which is a working title, and that lets you play co-op with one to four players, and you'll basically siege or hold a town, and as you're being attacked by waves of armies, they get progressively harder and you get progressively different and better units. With your friends, you have to focus on defending this town and surviving as long as you can. There's a portion of our player base, about 25 percent of them, who like to go and play against the AI by themselves. They don't want to deal with the stress and difficulty of playing multiplayer online, where they get the smack talk and the rudeness."
The teaser of new multiplayer modes isn't anything new from previous statements, but I think Relic realizes that new campaign missions (SP) don't hold people's interest very long, and some never even play them (mea culpa). I prefer comp stomp, solo or with friends only, and if ToV has other modes than invasion that will change things up and keep things fresh until CoH2, that is indeed a good thing.
CoH has an excellent mod community, and I think Relic has taken notice of some of the more promising things to emerge (Invasion mode, no base building missions, no capture point territories) and is incorporating them. This is something that Valve is very good at, with the strong mod community around Half-Life 2. Battle of the Bulge is looking so good, I think with some SP added to it Relic could charge for that as an expansion...(kudos to Halftrack and team)
Many thanks to Brian Wood for parting with a few more pearls of knowledge about ToV, hoping to read more soon!
95% of the players don’t play online.
They prefer to play skirmish games against the AI.
Will the replacement units be available for skirmish games?
#404
Most likely yes, i mean if it is available for online games, i can't imagine games against the computer being any different.
Yes, I was a moderator at AOE3 HG for one year.BTW: did you spend time at HG Moshe?
I also created many custom scenarios with new features, see:
http://aoe3.heavengames.com/download...arch=MosheLevi
I gave many COH games away as part of the contests that I conducted there.
I like the COH game style so much that I created AOE3 custom scenarios where players can capture and re-capture unit production buildings (from each other) across the map (just like control points).
Each captured building gives the player free unique units periodically as long as the player owns it.
That changed the game play to play out more like COH.
Last edited by MosheLevi; 5th Dec 08 at 5:46 PM.
Thought the name username seemed familiar
On-topic: with skirmishes being essentially multi-player games with bots, this expansion seeming to be focused on single player, and like you said, most people play skirmish; Relic would be pretty messed in the head not to make them available.
Kosake: Stop comparing Relic with Blizzard and EA.
Blizzard and EA are two freaking hugeass money stealing gameing companies.
Relic is a smaller company located in Vancouver.
Sure Blizzard and EA show content every freaking week (actually, Blizzard stopped showing new content for SC2), but that doesn't mean Relic has to do it.
There are others who don't want to see all stuff coming out at once, everyone has differernt opinions.
And before saying this game is crap, wait. Wait 'till more announcements come. If there are no more announcements, then I'll agree with you. But so far you don't know, do you? Noone here knows if there will be new announcements or not.
Anyways, I think ToV is trying to become a game where you play only with your friends.
Invasion mode will allow you to defend with your friend, which sounds really fun for me. I'd love to defend with my Tiger Tank with my friends. That'd be epic.
As for singleplayer, eeh... I don't know...
But neverthless, if this game is over 20 bucks, I'm not getting it. I'm never getting games over 20. That's my limit.
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*yawn*
Wow a a WWII game on the Western front in Normandy of all places, never seen that before.
Epic fail. Needs Russians, and the Eastern front.
Wow ah WW2 game on the eastern front with russians would be so innovating!!!!
Whole new scenario...ah no, wait... -_-
I like the ww2 scenario the most and cant understand the people who always want modern combats and stuff.
Only thing that would be interesting is vietnam but WW2 is fine =)
Cant wait for more information about TOV to come =O
#410
@Grov: 2 years ago that comment might have made a little sense.. as it is now..
@Holyknight: A curious requirement for you getting a game. Though i suppose it works.
Actually, the Eastern Front hasn't been done much by games. Normandy has been done far far more. It would be more innovative to do the Eastern Front although it looks unlikely relic will change theatres.Wow ah WW2 game on the eastern front with russians would be so innovating!!!!
Whole new scenario...ah no, wait... -_-
Still it wouldnt be innovating:
"Wow everything is white instead of green! GREAT!"
"Wow I am fighting with russians instead of americans"
It is just not a great difference (Sure in reality Eastern front was completely different compared to the western, but games cant show the differences so well)
Any plans about Relic fixing the blurry distant textures in Tales of Valor? Any COH engine improvements? Maybe new features from the wiki, such as improved tactical map, show fire range in mgs, ats... or anything like that?
I rather this than new factions or only single player focused expansion.
They said somehwere that engine improvements were not going to be part of TOV. I can't remember if it was Thunder that said it in the last TOV thread or if it was in a preview.
#415
I believe it was in a preview, they did so to prevent the people who owned some of the previous games to suddenly need increased specs.. or something like that, might be i misread it.
Yep i guess it would have been fun to conquer the reichstaggebaude again with the Russians.
but it would be even more fun to play as a Tiger ace crew ;]
#418
And there might still come russians in a later expansion.. Remember, this is DLC that has been upgraded to Expansion status.. meaning that there might be plans for another expansion.. although that is pure speculation from me.
As it is i am looking forward to the new units and the whole unit replacement system and what new strategies that might bring forth.
And the campaigns might still be of interest even though they are short. I just hope we might see a long Wehrmacht campaign before they head on to CoH 2. Either in an expansion or in DLC...
COH will have a 5 year plan. We are in what year 3?
We shall rule this galaxy once more.
coh only having a 5 year plan!? but its a great RTS! that actually makes me sad
COH.. for 5 years? Do you guys mean the using the same engine game for 5 years? Or we get to see COH2 using new game engine?
the coh franchise was given a five year plan before the release of OF
theres nothing saying that it wont be cut short or extended depending on success of expansions and/or sequels, although honestly. its a new game. i dont see the fuss about sequels everyone is making. you dont need a new engine to depict russians and japanese, nor do you need to completely break with history and have them fight alongside the british/americans or germans, respectively. monty's african army transplanted into northern france was far enough of a stretch imo.
I don't know... I would actually like Russians to be in COH.Originally Posted by senseo1990
My friends and I love Soviet Union during WW2. Freaking conscripts and commisors, rargh.
We thought about how conscripts are forcefully retreated, and gunners on top of the buildings would shoot them.
The details of the 5-year plan have never been fully revealed. It could be a plan for CoH1 in isolation but probably includes CoH2 as well.
Putting aside the historical authenticity issues which Relic have expressed concerns about (e.g. of having Russian and US armies fighting together), the main limitation of the CoH1 Essence 1.0 engine is that it can only support a maximum of four armies/factions. So there is limited scope to extend CoH1 much further. That's why the focus of ToV is very much on singleplayer rather than multiplayer. I'd be very surprised if we saw another expansion based on the CoH1 engine after ToV but this is still a possibiliy. It will be CoH2 and Essence 2.0 before we see any new factions. Given this is the same/similar engine being used for DoW2, it is reasonable to assume that it will be able to support more than four factions concurrently.
It should also be noted that the 'new' units which will be included in ToV are in fact 'replacement' units. You will have to trade in one for the other based on your preference (and - assuming Relic are still treating these as 'reward' units - having completed the single-player campaigns). For example, you can replace the Greyhound vehicle with a Staghound. These 'replacement' units were originally intended to be just new skins over the existing model/stats but this now seems to be moving towards them having different stats and/or capabilities. However, they are still 'replacement' units so you have to make a choice as to whether or not you want to use them in preference to the original unit.
Last edited by DribbleSack; 7th Dec 08 at 6:33 AM.
But you mustnt think of the replacement-thing as something bad. I personally like it, sure I would prefer new armies, but Army-Customization is sort of equal to me , as long as there are enough units to choose of.
#426
@Dribblesack: Actually in one of the latest previews it was mentioned that the Staghound will be able to replace the British Stuart, while the Americans can use a stuart to replace their greyhounds.
Plus said staghound will have some new abilities, and i imagine the stuart in the american army will have some differences as well from the British one. And they can still be new units even though they replace.
I see no reason to buy this. I'm one of those crackpots that likes the "smack talk" and "stress" of fighting other humans through multiplayer.
Hopefully a lot of other people will buy ToV, though, and with luck at least .00005% of the money will go towards improving multiplayer, which I actually care about.
@ Senseo: In other terms, if you have a good dozen of additional units per faction, yes... thats pretty OK. If you have 2 or three units per army, it plainly sucks.
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If force does not help, more force will...
________________
#429
Well who knows, plus there are the units that would normally be found in the other army which might provide some interesting strats anyways.
that is quite a large problem. if you're a modder.the main limitation of the CoH1 Essence 1.0 engine is that it can only support a maximum of four armies/factions. So there is limited scope to extend CoH1 much further. That's why the focus of ToV is very much on singleplayer rather than multiplayer. I'd be very surprised if we saw another expansion based on the CoH1 engine after ToV but this is still a possibiliy. It will be CoH2 and Essence 2.0 before we see any new factions. Given this is the same/similar engine being used for DoW2, it is reasonable to assume that it will be able to support more than four factions concurrently.
seeing as how relic has access to the source code and can generally do whatever the hell they want with the game, its not much of a limiting factor.
Stop scaremongering DribbleSack, the engine is perfectly capable of supporting more then four factions (as said by Mannerheim himself). The problem is that the minimum requirements listed on the box cannot take any new factions, without increasing the minimum requirements of the game Relic cannot include any new factions.Putting aside the historical authenticity issues which Relic have expressed concerns about (e.g. of having Russian and US armies fighting together), the main limitation of the CoH1 Essence 1.0 engine is that it can only support a maximum of four armies/factions. So there is limited scope to extend CoH1 much further. That's why the focus of ToV is very much on singleplayer rather than multiplayer. I'd be very surprised if we saw another expansion based on the CoH1 engine after ToV but this is still a possibiliy. It will be CoH2 and Essence 2.0 before we see any new factions. Given this is the same/similar engine being used for DoW2, it is reasonable to assume that it will be able to support more than four factions concurrently.
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Stop being so melodramatic. No aspect of my post could be considered to be scaremongering. It simply states the facts (as I understand them) and was intended to provide some additional information as to why there will be no additional factions added to CoH1. I posted this because many of the recent posters seem to be oblivious to these technical constraints.
No disrepect to Mannerheim but from where does he get his information and why is it any more accurate than mine? It has been reported for some time that the engine is limited to four factions - I can even recall this being discussed by Bridger on Tales of Heroes almost a year ago. Mannerheim's post is the first time I have ever seen it be claimed that the engine can support more than four armies - what is his source?
Regardless, even if this was accurate - which I don't believe it is - this would be an absolutely trite and patehtic reason not to add additional armies. Relic/THQ go to considerable lengths to emphasise that their expansions are STANDALONE. On that basis, they are entirely independent and can have different system requiremetns. There is no legal (or other) reason to keep the system requirements the same. So, in itself, this is not a justifiable or even logical explanation. I am truly perplexed that you (who seem quick to assert your opinion) would consider this to be an acceptable explanation.
Mannerheim is one of the most accomplished COH modders around. He did not rely on outside information to determine the number of armies COH can support; rather, he determined it through his own examinations of the game data. Also, even if he is wrong, it doesn't matter. As someone above noted, Relic has the source code for the engine, therfore, they can do whatever they want.
#434
Relic has decided not to add new factions, now can we please move the topic off if it's possible? They have the source code, they can if they want to.
In my opinion a new faction set might have been nice, but since they wanted to keep it western front (reasonable considering integration with previous factions) they may have struggled to find reason for new units. I await and see how much new stuff is in the new factions, and I for one find the ability to tweak the sides a good idea. I hope there is plenty customisable, with enough customisability the change in the old sides is enough to make up for a whole new faction.
Since it's already clear that it's more than reskinning the old units, I think any real argument on the degree of change of the old faction is mainly conjecture, you may be able to exchange every unit for an alternative one if you will that plays well.
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I agree this type of game would be fun.Anyways, I think ToV is trying to become a game where you play only with your friends.
Invasion mode will allow you to defend with your friend, which sounds really fun for me. I'd love to defend with my Tiger Tank with my friends. That'd be epic.
However I would like to point out that many players would prefer playing with 3-5 Tiger tanks since controlling only one Tiger tank may not be appealing for everyone.
I would suggest that the number of defending Tiger tanks would be adjustable via a game option to add more replayability and to accommodate more players.
The number of enemy forces should of course be adjusted according to the number of defending Tiger tanks.
Perhaps they could modify the COH1 engine to support more factions.the main limitation of the CoH1 Essence 1.0 engine is that it can only support a maximum of four armies/factions.
A good expansion has to have more factions.
That is what I was thinking.Given this is the same/similar engine being used for DoW2, it is reasonable to assume that it will be able to support more than four factions concurrently.
I don’t like that concept.It should also be noted that the 'new' units which will be included in ToV are in fact 'replacement' units. You will have to trade in one for the other based on your preference
I prefer having new units being able to train whatever I want during the game.
#436
As said, Relic can add more factions if they want to, since they have the source code, thing is if i am not completely off the track, is that it might demand more of system specs, which Relic probably want to avoid ramping up if necessary.
Yes well the point of it is trying to add another strategic element and allow players to focus there army more on the strats that suit them, i mean imagine that some of the PE replacement units might be actual tanks ! I mean panzers for the panzer elite :P Thus allowing for a broader spectrum of strategies, while at the same time forcing the player to make certain choices..I don’t like that concept.
I prefer having new units being able to train whatever I want during the game.
If you want new armies, wait for people to make mods off of it.
I just saw a mod that has to do with Russians and another one that has to do with WW1.
But I guess they can put Russians in if they want, but that would be annoying since Tales of Valor is a very different approach.
What they can do is make two expansions, one TOV and other with Russians.
And why would you want Italy?
@ pyros and imperial dane-thanks for clarifying the direct fire mode misinformation i posted.
but i woulds till like to know what they want to do about the new units. because im not sure if the new units will be better or worse in any way, and if they are better than that makes it so money=better units. maybe not that extreme, but they wouldnt just add units with the same function as one that already exists.
#439
holyknight: modders cant do full mods with Russians as in new vehicles and weapons since Relic pulled off the most important modding tool (OE).
Also what I understood Relic already said TOV is last thing for CoH (1?) and CoH2 has not been even started or planned to be made. If you people refer the 5 year plan then don't forget the CoH Online project they are working on. Even if it might never get released outside Asia its still part of their plan.
Like said before with good reasons the Russians or any other full army cant really come as expansion since the game has almost hit its resource use quota. Only way I can see them coming is CoH2 if they ever start working on it
lol @ all these sudden references to 'Relic have the source code, so they can do what they want'. What a ridiculously obvious and pointless statement to make. As the developers of CoH, Relic will - of course - decide what is put in and what is left out. Stating this is like saying BMW are going to make a new car; and BMW will decide what engine size to put in it.
@ Mannerheim. Hello. When you say, 'any other full army cant really come as expansion since the game has almost hit its resource use quota' is this not essentially the same as saying the 'CoH1 engine cannot support more than four armies'.
The whole 5-year plan thing sounds grand enough but given it has never been made public we can only speculate as to what it contains. I agree (as you sugggest) that they haven't even started on CoH2 yet.
All engine stuf is just BS. When they have the time and the money to make new factions, they will do it. Only very few ToV sales could change it.
And they can do anything they want... look at gliders in OF... the first time I saw a glider landig I was totaly O_O
#442
@Dribblesack: Well apparently one that needed to be made as you keep pointing out that they are somehow incapable.
No what it means that if they go beyond that, they will need to ramp up the system specs, meaning that it will Require more RAM, and seeing as to how they like everybody to play together, that would require that the system specs for all the games to go up, so yes the engine can support more than four armies, as said, relic can do so, but it will cause the system requirements to go upMannerheim. Hello. When you say, 'any other full army cant really come as expansion since the game has almost hit its resource use quota' is this not essentially the same as saying the 'CoH1 engine cannot support more than four armies'.
I think Relic is either not thinking hard enough or they just dont want to do it. Take a look at these information:
Engine cant handle it --> Ok, why cant you just make a standalone that only consists Red Army vs Wechermt with current Engine? You can give this game a new name called Company of Heores: Eastern Front, yes, No Allies, No PE, NO British Simcity to the best. Also to attract new comers, include a CoH V and OF Demo, if they really like it, they will also buy these two games, increase sales.
Concern about Allies and Russians fighting together --> Standalone, you either load CoH OF only or CoH WF only in different MP rooms, not both, problem solved.
Want Everyone play together --> If you want all play together, why bother concerning about Allies and Russians fighting together or each other?
Now lets compare this to the replacement units: In a 4 vs 4 if each player would have chosen different emplacement units wouldnt it come close to a new army on the field? Sure its only a "4vs4 if thats the case..." -scenario but there is no reason that players who have a good system have to suffer because others dont have good systems?!
#445
@Dribblesack: like Imperial Dane said above its only about the game requirements and not engine limitations.
Im sure if Relic has any plans related to Russians they are is saving them for a separate game that will have winter theme. This means nearly all building/unit/terrain/effect art needs to be redone, new sounds/speeches recorded to fit winter theme etc. All these require a lot more work than Brits/PE did that used a lot more texture/resource sharing than original armies.
So let them ramp up the system requirements, what’s the big deal?No what it means that if they go beyond that, they will need to ramp up the system specs, meaning that it will Require more RAM, and seeing as to how they like everybody to play together, that would require that the system specs for all the games to go up, so yes the engine can support more than four armies, as said, relic can do so, but it will cause the system requirements to go up
COH will be two and a half years old when TOV is released.
Most players already upgraded their system so most of them are not going to be affected.
Besides, I cannot imagine that such change will increase the system requirements by much.
#447
MosheLevi: problem is whats already printed on the boxes, there are several editions of CoH/OF/Gold edition still out there in the shops that would have false info which would probably lead to legal issues in different regions
#448
Also i wouldn't be too sure that everybody who has the game will be able to handle an upgrade in the requirements, which would lead to some ill will as all of a sudden they are finding themselves unable to play the game.. Although one possiblity would be too instead have that bit optional, so if people don't have the system specs, then they can still play against the rest .. if possible..
Even if COH is more demanding I don’t think minimum system requirements have to go up.MosheLevi: problem is whats already printed on the boxes, there are several editions of CoH/OF/Gold edition still out there in the shops that would have false info which would probably lead to legal issues in different regions
I am sure they have some margin left especially when graphic settings can be adjusted by players.
Besides, as COH is being sold at stores new copies are manufactured and I already saw many different versions of game boxes.
They can always print new boxes with modified minimum system requirements (if it’s even necessary).
This shouldn’t be a big deal.
#450
It's not about the graphics, but as far as i know, about the RAM, something that can't be as easily tweaked. And the other thing would require them to recall thousands of copies and then have them placed in another box and then resent, which isn't going to be cheap either.
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