"BLITZKRIEG MOD" v4.620 (Update Nov 2012)

[Muad'Dib]

I just wanted to throw these ideas out to some fans of this MOD. Basically, the only real difference between SP and MP are the tank crews, which the AI doesn't know how to use. I have some ideas on how to reconstruct the tanks crews without completely eliminating them but still make the AI have some use for them.

1. All tanks when built already have tank crews in them but can be ejected by the human player if he so wishes. The AI doesn't eject them anyway so that basically ends the problem with the AI having immobile tanks. While human players have the option to replace a new tank crews with a veteran one (if he can retreat them fast enough). So basically tank crews still gain vet and unlock abilities which is what the author of this mod intended.

2. Tank crews can no longer be trained.

3. So what will a human player do with the extra tank crew if he replaces the new of with a vet one? They already have repair, but my suggestion is make it advanced repair. I mean who would know more about fixing tanks than its crew right? I'm sure they were trained to do some sort of field repairs.

4. What will the AI do with a tank crew once its tank gets destroyed? Aside from the repair ability (which they consistently do and makes the AI harder) I was thinking of giving the tank crew a weapon and upgrades depending on their veterancy. I'm pretty sure real life tank crews must have had some sort of weapons training. Its not like they're just drivers drafted into the army. Like for example:
No Vet crews get pistols
Vet 1 crews have a sub machine pistol upgrade. (MP40, grease gun, etc.)
Vet 2 crews get a better sub machine pistol upgrade. (MP44s, BARS, Thompsons, Stens, etc.)
Vet 3 crews get grenades

Nothing concrete, I'm just citing examples.

5. Weapons also makes tank crews without tanks somewhat useful for human players, especially with advanced repairs.

So what do you guys think? Would you prefer that both SP and MP be combined into one Kick-ass mod?

Then again, if someone out there could find a way to actually make the AI garrison tank crews into tanks them none of these ideas really matter....

[SHADOW]

1. All tanks when built already have tank crews in them but can be ejected by the human player if he so wishes. The AI doesn't eject them anyway so that basically ends the problem with the AI having immobile tanks.

Unfortunately that doesn't work. The AI always disembarks the crews and tries to use them as infantry. After some time instead of having empty tanks in the AI base (like it is in the current MP if you play with AI) you will have empty AI tanks all over the map and tank crews running wildly around.

Maybe you haven't noticed this yet, but if the AI calls an ace-tank in the current MP version it will disembark the crew inside pretty fast. So this solution won't work and a seperation into SP and MP is the only way out until someone can code the AI so they will be able to use tank crews as they are meant to be used.

[Xalibur]

...yes I can surely confirm this!

[Omecron]

That's a shame. I was just getting excited...

Any more news on 1.4?

[Muad'Dib]

Unfortunately that doesn't work. The AI always disembarks the crews and tries to use them as infantry. After some time instead of having empty tanks in the AI base (like it is in the current MP if you play with AI) you will have empty AI tanks all over the map and tank crews running wildly around. Maybe you haven't noticed this yet, but if the AI calls an ace-tank in the current MP version it will disembark the crew inside pretty fast. So this solution won't work and a seperation into SP and MP is the only way out until someone can code the AI so they will be able to use tank crews as they are meant to be used.

Wait a sec... based on the free tetrarch that comes with the HQ glider call-in which BTW, does have a tank crew, I'd can pretty much say that the AI doesn't eject the tank crews. And I've seen them use that tetrarch a lot. But for argument's sake, I didn't observe them long enough to see if they do eventually eject the crew... I'll run some tests....

[Slimak81]

Can some help me with the following /
I have no speech sound when playing brits and axis panzer elite , but it works normal when playing americans and axis.
I am running russian version (( as i am russian . Some mods work fine with sound some do not. Any suggestrions how to make speach active ?
And one more - i have $242151265 or near like this for the new units that are in mod - is it normal ?

[michelle]

How are you putting new units into the game? Is it taking existing units and modifying them?

[ejg3855]

I play this alot and like it very much. A few things I would like to see.

1. Portable 88's as used on the eastern front and in North Afrika with incredible results
2. German Arty was very prominent in the Eastern Campagins and Somewhat against the allies.

3a. More light tanks PZR II and III, the americans have the Stuart and Techrach

3b. One game play change that leads from the above suggestion would be to make the costs of upgrading to the Stug Armory and Panzer Command very expensive so it forces in game investment in smaller tanks to hold off while you save for larger tanks. Another approach could be to time cap it so that xxx seconds must pass before you have the ability to build those buildings.

Just Ideas Thanks for the Great Mod.

[zenkmander]

Subscribing to thread for 1.4 release!

[Muad'Dib]

Xalibur,

You need to clear your inbox so I can send you my final comprehensive report on 1.4.

Cheers!

[LloydyBoy]

i just saw some gamplay vids on youtube of Tales of Valor
just woundering could grab some of the H39 and H34 french tanks used by german reserve divsions in the cotein peunisula

and use them as the german light tanks

Just incase anybody wants to see those youtube films i'm on about here u are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCVRG...eature=related

[tutt6]

Will we be able to build them?

[LloydyBoy]

yeah u could or you could call in a light amorured platton consisting of 2 or 3 of the H39 tanks with 2 amorued cars with a squad of special 12 man greinaders

[Muad'Dib]

Will we be able to build them?

That's up to Xalibur... He said he'll try to port as much as he can from ToV.

[Husky42]

Sorry for the late reply here Xalibur.

So far so good on 1.4, i've had limited play time because of school but break is coming up and my finals are nearly all done so I'll try and set some time aside this week.

So far though, its been fantastic and not neary a complaint at all.

[SHADOW]

Little update guys:

- Alot of little bugs has been corrected and also some fine-tuning was done (too much to mention, just wait and see for yourself).

- Xalibur just implemented a little tweak to the SP so the AI will get better. Unfortunately any attempts to tweak the AI files have failed, either they didn't work and caused sync errors or the AI wasn't getting much better.

The reason is the new tech system. The AI can't handle all the new upgrades and tech-trees very well thus being slow when building tanks and it behaves less aggressive then before. With the new upgrade the AI is getting a lot more resources so they can tech faster and finally build more tanks as they had been supposed to be from the start. With regular resources the AI focuses on building smaller tanks and needs a lot of time to research and build the heavy ones. Even when they can build heavy ones they still rely a lot on small tanks sometimes. When given more resources the AI isn't that cautious anymore. Thats why Xalibur tries this approach now.

The AI now can research a special (and for the player invisible) upgrade to get a resource mulitplier. With that the AI currently (but this is just for testing and not final yet!) get's 5 times the resources as it usually would get. This may sound unfair, but it makes the AI good again and with it the AI will hopefully still be a challenge even if YOU have sector-control.

But because the x5 resource upgrades is a brutal kicker with Expert AIs and most games are done after 20 mins with the human player(s) losing I think the final value for the AI will be something like x3 resources. We now have to test out the most acceptable value that also makes the AI better - but not impossible - on lower difficulty levels. It works excellent with Expert AIs even though not all AIs are reasearching the upgrade yet. I had a game on "The Front" with a friend and only 1 of 4 Expert AIs got the upgrade, but the AI sent waves of Pershings, infantry, AT and light vehicles against us like crazy. Took us nearly 2 h to defeat them after we had to retreat to our HQ sectors and a fight a trench war there. Imagine what it will be like if we can get all 4 enemies to reaserach it!

Be reminded: this is just a beta testing and not a final implemention yet. But after a few testgames I can say the AI is getting interesting again, even on maps they usually had been easy to defeat on. I hope it's possible to get all AI players to research it and also find a suitable value for all difficulty settings because you can't adjust the multiplier by difficulty settings ONE settings must fit all difficulties. If we can get this to work then prepare yourself for a killer-AI in v1.4.

- Releasedate of v1.4? Now before any tries to ask this: it's done when it's done. V1.4 is probably the biggest update so far and brings a lot of updates, but this also needs some time. Or as we say over here: "Good things need time". But as you can see above the progress is very promising.

[LloydyBoy]

all well and good thx for the updates but plz some one tell me the British AI is fixed

[Omecron]

Oh! I love the idea of being beaten by the AI (or at least driven back to my base to frantically defend). My favourite games are those where I dig in and let the AI come to me [slavers in anticipation]

Keep up the good work

[zenkmander]

Thanks for the update! Can't wait for release

[darkflame8]

About the resource upgrade, is it possible to give the AI varying degrees depending on what level they are, as in easy gets less than an Expert AI would get. Or possibly the other way round.

[SHADOW]

Unfortunately this isn't possible. But the current multiplier "3" seems to be a good booster and a fair compromise for all difficulty settings.

[Erloriel]

But would they use it correctly? While playing on the Rhine map, the axis were alright in terms of units, but the British only produced light tanks...for the entire match. The Americans vary, sometimes they use a load of heavy tanks (escpecially the pershing) and other times they just stick to jeeps... lots and lots of jeeps, combined with very few AT- guns.

Note: this was basicly across all difficulties

[Xalibur]

...this depends on scripts, that analyses the current incoming fuel etc. and then decides what makes sense to be build... If the fuel income is low the ai doesn`t build a tankdepot...

[pantherschrek]

This is probably impossible to implement.... but wouldn't it be sweet if all vehicles cost little or no fuel to make, but any time they are moved, they consume fuel. A set amount per vehicle, for instance a panther would use 10x as much fuel as a motorcycle.

This would force conservative movement tactics and enhance game-play . If you run out of fuel your tanks stop.

[IrisDane]

Well you can give tanks fuel upkeep. Which takes so-so amount of fuel away from what you obtain during the minute.

[Captain Trek]

Well you can give tanks fuel upkeep. Which takes so-so amount of fuel away from what you obtain during the minute.

Yes, but that would apply even if the tank wasn't moving...

[Muad'Dib]

Yes, but that would apply even if the tank wasn't moving...

Yup but still a bit more realistic. But such an upkeep would have to be pretty low otherwise researching and upgrading would all have to be re-adjusted and recomputed to compensate for the fuel loss. Hmmm.... Its actually kinda interesting....

And while we're speculating here, maybe Arty Pieces should also have a Muni Upkeep?

[SHADOW]

Arty with ammo-upkeep?? Doesn't make much sense since you already pay ammo per salvo which is a more realistic aspect IMHO. The fuel for movement isn't possible AFAIK, but I'm not an expert on CoH coding so I might be wrong.

[BazzBrother]

For vehicles and gasoline, I would recommend being given a second 'health' bar that would decrease every time the vehicle moves. When the vehicle runs out of this 'fuel', pioneers or trucks must reach the vehicles and ressupply it with a power that costs fuel. Also, there could be a repair bunker that ALSO re supply's gas without cost.

[SHADOW]

Seriously, do you guys think this gasoline idea would be fun to play and not just a big pile of more micromanagment slowing down the gameplay?
Every vehicle already costs fuel as upkeep, I think that's the easiest solution. With implemented gasoline for vehicles and ammo supplies you would mostly just drive around with fuel-trucks or ammo-trucks to supply your troops because they ran out of those. The normal gameplay would nearly come to an hold. I can't imagine that this would be fun to play for most BK-players (including me).

[BazzBrother]

I just recommended a 'what if' in case they were actually trying to come up with something decent for this

[NightStorm]

Hi, i love your mod, your tank crew is very good thing, now i play it in SP, but i have a question for you.

You think is possible mixing sp and mp modality ?

I explain my think, when i play in coop vs comp, i get axis and i want play it in mp modality with tank crew, allies ai can play as in sp modality with no tank crew solve ai problem.

So sp modality, work as sp/coop vs ai for axis vs allies and allies vs axis, the first problem is balance betwen factions.
The second is how do you manage "no move" for tank, so i don't know if is possible have only one faction with tank crew.

Thank you a lot, for this mod.

i'm sorry about my english

[SHADOW]

@NightStorm: As said I'm not an expert on CoH coding, but I think that wouldn't be possible with a single version.

The problem is you'd have to make different BK versions depending on the faction the human player wants to play. F.e. he'd need a version where the Axis are like in the MP for the human player, but all other factions have SP conditions (like no tank crews) so the AI can handle them and the human Axis player can play with AI Panzerelite partners (no other Axis AI players possible due to the fact that this faction has MP values with tank crews!). You see he'd have to make a pile of extra versions for every possible combination. Another problem would be, as mentioned, that the faction the human player uses wouldn't be possible as AI ally, because this faction would have tank crews.

All in all I doubt that he'll ever do this, because he's already busy as hell with the SP and MP version. I'd bet he'd kill anyone suggesting another new 4 extra versions for the purpose you mentioned.

[pantherschrek]

Seriously, do you guys think this gasoline idea would be fun to play and not just a big pile of more micromanagment slowing down the gameplay?
Every vehicle already costs fuel as upkeep, I think that's the easiest solution. With implemented gasoline for vehicles and ammo supplies you would mostly just drive around with fuel-trucks or ammo-trucks to supply your troops because they ran out of those. The normal gameplay would nearly come to an hold. I can't imagine that this would be fun to play for most BK-players (including me).

Ammo trucks and fuel trucks is NOT what i had in mind. I agree that this approach would add more unnecessary micro-management. What i imagined was low fuel costs for upgrades, vehicles, and vehicle depots, and base most of the fuel consumption on how many vehicles you have and if they are driving or not. This is realistic. The more you drive the more you burn. And vehicles don't need to refuel, there just needs to be fuel available. Currently it costs a lot of fuel to make a tank depot. This isn't realistic. Having enough fuel to keep your tanks running was THE MOST important objective in WWII tank battles. By FAR. It was the deciding factor in many decisive WWII battles.

So this would mean that any player could build lots of vehicles regardless of how much fuel they had. However they would be forced to use them very strategically if their incoming fuel was low. Ideally, your incoming fuel would show a positive number when most or all your vehicles are standing still. With lots of vehicles on the move, the number could drop to a low or even negative figure so you could estimate how much longer you could charge around with your tank group. Imagine if you were being attacked by a player with lots of tanks, and he runs out of fuel just before reaching your base. He would have to wait until the fuel levels went back up or capture more fuel points with infantry, and until that time, you could counterattack or pick off his tanks with artillery. Also, it would be strategically unsound to build too many vehicles, since you would quickly run out of fuel and have no defense. Anti-tank infantry could be utilized more effectively in the game considering they could be used to take out vehicles that have run out of fuel. I think this could all add greatly to the intensity of battles.

However i think to implement it properly would require much more coding than a mod could do, as the AI would need to be able to "know" that fuel consumption skyrockets when moving lots of vehicles.

[revolucion09]

Will try and feedback. sounds really cool

[BazzBrother]

The Panzer Elite make excellent defenders, but when I tried to use them offensively....they are complete shit. Their infantry can pick off any allied infantry easily, but they have NOTHING that can stand against the HMG spam and stuarts at the beginning. playing offensively with the infantry is too tricky when theres mortars and HMGs covering each other, and trucks cant handle shit, the only thing decent the PEs have are the men with the Panzershreks but THEY cost ALOT to get to and even then its hell keeping them away from HMGs mortars and snipers. Dont give me lip about hoe I dont use tactics, I performed too many miracles just now and I have to say that SOMETHING needs to be done.

[NightStorm]

Hi SHADOW, thank you for answer

[GunsEmpty]

Yeah, supply trucks is not a good idea.

In reality, the map sizes are not big compared to real life battlefields. CoH battles are skirmish size engagements, so I don't think tanks should be running out of fuel in the middle of the skirmish. Seems like a big hassle.

But you could do a "Supreme Commander energy system". In SC, you have so much power that can be divided over your base's factories or shield generators. To get more power production, you building more power generators. It's like Accounting......you have energy/gas INFLOW and energy/gas OUTFLOW. As long as your have more energy being created than used, you are OK.

[Lethal Dosage]

I like Pantherschrek's fuel idea, when moving vehicles around drains your fuel (not the whole healthbar/supply trucks idea). While i'd love a RTS or RTT where not only ammunition but fuel supply was a serious concern (both Blitzkrieg and Codename Panzers did ammo, but not fuel), i think fuel usage would be a good addition to CoH provided it could be working.

I can think of a way of implementing it where it reduces your fuel income when a vehicle is moving, but currently i can't think of a way where it actually costs you the fuel you already have to run the vehciles, maybe i can find a modifier or an action that'll do it.

P.S. Revolution, if i figure it out i'll share it with you (while i steal the idea ).

[tutt6]

I wouldnt mind just like..a upgrade allowing you to buy weapons for muntions..like a MG-42 LMG,Mortar,MP-40,MP-44,G43,Scoped Kar,Panzershrek,MG-42 HMG...I mean it wouldnt hurt because thats how the wehrmacht did it in france..They had to get writing from there officers then they had to run it to a supply depo..Etc...Like all that or somthing for 500 muntions with a cool down time of 100 seconds..Or just let the axis make a supply yard like thing..I actually did it (Edited your mod please dont hurt me,It was only slight and i deleted it)I did that the AI handled it moderatly well..They bought MP-40's from it (I saw it when i attacked there base)And the pios with a flame thrower picked it up..

[BazzBrother]

@ Tutt....um, did we (as in both you and I) make that suggestion already? either way, I AGREEEEEEEE.

[pantherschrek]

Well if running out of fuel seems like a big hassle, it was indeed in all the 20th century wars. The many strategic victories in battles of WWII really fire up our imagination, and that's why we love COH. And (just my opinion) realistic fuel consumption is an important missing ingredient of the COH series.

If waiting around for fuel seems boring, upgradeable buildings could be built on fuel points (at significant manpower cost) to boost incoming fuel. Again, i think this is for COH II development, not a mod. Not to beat this horse to death, just thought i'd generate some discussion.

[tutt6]

I just want the supply depo that drops weapons for the germans..You could use the kampfgrapphe center and instead of vetrancey make it weapon drops....I mean thats how they did it (I know im repeating)Still..Your choice..not mine.

[BazzBrother]

Bug: In the Trainz map, I lpayed against the British in the middle, and two Americans on each flank. The Americans did nothing, except one of them had perhaps two airborne squads. AI might be buggy.

[Baracus]

Great mod, My friends and I are just having a problems connecting to one another. We all DL'ed from the exact same site and all have 1.35 but out of 5 of us 2 can connect to one another and the other 3 can connect to each other but if we try to connect we get this "Incompatible versions." I have uninstalled and reinstalled the mod and trying to fix it. We all can play together stock game just fine.

If anyone knows how to solve this issue please let us know.

[Muad'Dib]

Do you all have OF?

Did you use the CoH Launcher?

Make sure you have the -dev switched on

Try having all you Graphics/Audio settings be identical.

[Baracus]

All have OF, but the video settings are different we will match those and try..

[Baracus]

Ok, it works with all the same settings for all. Thanks

[Celution]

Hey Xalibur, I wanted to PM you this but your inbox is full (again).

Can I use your vehicle engine sounds, I love them so much!
I want to use them in Back to Basics.

[Baracus]

Any chance we will get a hotfix for the 2.4 patch that seems to have screwed up the mod?

If it is something simple to change could you please post it and we can make the fix.