"BLITZKRIEG MOD" v4.620 (Update Nov 2012)

[lin]

The US MG doesn't have a pop-cap?

to clarify its the US mg bunker/nest whatever u call it (not the hmg team)

maybe beacuse it has a "built-in" mg but still should have pop cap for the sake of consistency

I agree the trench cost could probably be something. I am one of the trench spammers.

yea most PvP online games revolve around "how many bunkers and trenches can u build in the shortest time" contest and because trenches are free u can actually make as many as u please and the whole game degrades into nonstop mortar/arty battles because u cant break through the trench lines with anything else (which feels like im playing a first world war game )

[bwc153]

the june 21st one is the one with the expanded command tree right? because i know thats from one of the newest releases. maybe it didnt install right if that is the correct one.. or maybe its only on multiplayer release that Xali fixed

Also.. i forgot to mention this earlier, some buttons have conflicting shortcuts, like direct fire and unload.. really annoying for direct fire users like me.

and another bug i found (that earlier thing was posted midgame)
the BergeTiger crushes stugs and light vehicles, making it impossible to recover the precious ammo from them

[No More Clowns!]

@shadow

I did notice the increase in damage which is good. but if you think that increasing the accuracy will make it overpowered, you can always put a unit cap on it. besides, the wirblewind is still weak against armored vehicles and other tanks, and the increases in AT gun ranges make them a greater threat to wirblewinds.

In all honesty, i only ask that you increase the accuracy over short distances (there are different accuracies for different distances right?) only. i just want to reap rewards for effective flanking of squads and AT guns, you know?

[Baracus]

If the sandbags require manpower the trench should too... I guess.. I love the Trenches for an early defense. They really help hold a line against the early super rush the allies come with.

[SweptUp2]

Wehrmacht, Blitzkrieg Doctrine, healing? I can't see any way of doing this?

[red devil]

If i delete the skins that are downloaded with the mod will it keep my skins i already installed. Or can i leave them in without it affecting the skins i already have installed ?

[SHADOW]

@No More Clowns: Hmm, okay. I will take a look into it and try around some new values. If it get's too brutal I'll only change close distance. BTW: there is already a limit for the Wirbelwind (2).

Wehrmacht, Blitzkrieg Doctrine, healing? I can't see any way of doing this?

Build a medic bunker and recruit a medic there.

If i delete the skins that are downloaded with the mod will it keep my skins i already installed. Or can i leave them in without it affecting the skins i already have installed ?

I have no idea and I will not give support if anyone starts messing around with files and then cries when BK doesn't work. I'm already busy giving support for the regular problems and bugs, you know?

[Vex T]

No trench costs please! I mean it's practically just the soldiers digging up soil; why would it cost manpower or the other two resources to build one? Logically doesn't make any sense... in real life it all takes but a shovel

What would be great to have in this mod would be more environmental objects that can be garrison like how World At War mod did!

And the pop-cap for us mg is reasonable; kinda unfair for the other factions to suffer from 3 pop being used for each mg emplacement.


Issues with U.S. faction:
Pershing and 76mm Sherman still have pink icons.
Mortars are still awesome with their 105mm arty effects and damage hehe

[DrEvil....EVIL!]

what is it with PE incendiary grenades? I just can't seem to obtain them anymore even when the base is fully updated.

[LloydyBoy]

@Vex T then why dont you do the same with the MG bunker and the mortor emplacement its basicly what you sayed "Digging up soil" but they place a mortor or MG in it

Actually thats not a bad idea to reduce the AI difficutly why dont you have the buildable stuff garransoble let me explain with more detail

brits build MG emplacement you could have it that either its got a empty gun crew and needs to be manned or you could build a MG from the HQ truck and garrason them in the empty MG emplacement

same with Mortors and AT guns ETC

[Goreignak]

Setting it to where Emplacements (AT Guns, Mortars, MG Nests, etc) come with-out crew makes sense realistically, and could make for some interesting fights where emplacements become a pseudo-strategic point all there own (kill the crew, get the gun). The "closed top" emplacements (MG nests, AT Guns) would provide more coverage then a open-top emplacement like the Flakvierling or mortar emplacement. Of course, the emplacements themselves should probably be given more hitpoints to where they actually last longer then the men that crew them...

Since we're talking about emplacements, IMO any men stationed in an Axis Bunker should be nigh-invulnerable to anything other then high explosives, flamethrowers, and snipers... and the bunker itself should take a lot of punishment before crumbling, too... Again, it's realistic, but then you'd have to make those "bunker buildings" cost an astronomical amount just to balance them out.

Throwing the "realism" card around too much can get dangerous...

Edit: But to be honest, I'd rather see the bugs get fixed first before balance tweaks/major changes are made.

Second Edit: Random tangent: I TRULY wish friendly NPCs would not run over friendly sand bags and barbed wire...

[Baracus]

The rifleman should not have to pay for trenches or sandbags imo thinking about, everytime a rifleman stops he digs in.

Bug:
:I noticed the germens can replace men shot off their AT guns but the brits can not.

:shadow the mortar range is longer for the bots then it is for a human, I had many chances to test it. It was against the germs, but I think all the AI has extra range with mortars.

:also noticed the 76mm at gun does damage to the front of the tiger, and the 17pb at guns does more damge then the firefly.

[Muad'Dib]

Finally figured out the ketten booby trap bug! Kettens have booby traps the second you go SE, but lose their ability to do so once you click on the Booby Trap Strategic Point (to give your PGs the ability to plant booby traps) ability from the tree. And nothing will ever give kettens back that ability once you give PGs the booby trap ability.

[Vex T]

Yes I will Llloydboy! But you forget mortars and mgs require the weapon itself, sandbags, and the kool green tent cover(for the mgs)= use of manpower!

Besides the trenches are barely used once a faction flanks it; so please "no" to any change for it.

And I saw a WW2 American soldier training vid on Live Leak where it showed a 37mm cannon decimating a 2 feet concrete bunker... Link: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1240833450

[Baracus]

Bug

:The brits can not snip mortar teams, the regular riflemen squad that can snipe everything else wont snipe a mortar team.

[SHADOW]

:shadow the mortar range is longer for the bots then it is for a human, I had many chances to test it. It was against the germs, but I think all the AI has extra range with mortars.

Ok, I'll say it again: N-O-P-E. The mortars have a fixed (!) range. There is no way the AI get's an additional range bonus. You may feel that way because the AI can see everything and hence take advantage of the full mortar range, even though your mortar unit can't see the other mortar and will not fire back. I even asked Xali, just to be sure I'm not telling BS, but he confirmed it. A exception is the german 120 mm mortar with it's uber-range of course.

On the trench-costs: This version is optimized for Skirmish and coop-games against AI. If the trench-spamming is THAT much of a problem maybe a little costs could be added to the MP version, but I'm not a supporter of trench-costs for the SP version. Trenches are the only defense you can put up fast enough against the Extreme AI and even then they are easy to overcome with mortars or by flank attacks.

@Non-deletable trenches: When empty, tanks can run over it, but units like Paks can get problems passing them. Also keep in mind that the direction of a trench is important for an MG to fire into the correct direction, so a wrongly placed trench (happens a LOT in the hazzle of the first AI rush) in an area with only room for one trench, that can't be deleted anymore, would be a big problem. I already lost several early games against the AI due to a wrongly placed trench, even WITH the option to delete it. I can only imagine how many games would have turned out otherwise if I wouldn't have had the chance to delete and replace a wrongly placed or trench in the other games.

There will always be palyers who will exploit special features or use tactics, that others find lame or unfair. But limits or additional costs only take away a lot of the possibilities and fun of a game IMHO.

[lin]

On the trench-costs: This version is optimized for Skirmish and coop-games against AI. If the trench-spamming is THAT much of a problem maybe a little costs could be added to the MP version, but I'm not a supporter of trench-costs for the SP version. Trenches are the only defense you can put up fast enough against the Extreme AI and even then they are easy to overcome with mortars or by flank attacks.

Xalibur stated that there will be no separate SP and MP versions so has he changed his mind on that or what?

Yea when we play against expert or hard AI its the only thing that keeps the frontline, but you did the same cost thing to the tanktraps. Before tanktraps had MP cost we used to tanktrap all the map (because it was free), so the AI vehicles couldnt attack us and when we built up our army we blew up the TT and killed everything (the AI was/is dumb enough not to blow it up). Now its so expensive that we rarely use it so it was an effective action to stop spamming it.

Also with the new AI coming with the help of sweeten u have to overthink what u know about playing against the AI. I played the N44 mod which has that AI and it doesnt cheat resource wise. It doesnt come 4 or 5 times the troops you have, you have almost equal numbers so you can actually win a battle without using OP stuff like trenches. So all in all your opinion might be true for the current version AI but not for the future one.

But limits or additional costs only take away a lot of the possibilities and fun of a game IMHO.

IMO its the opposite: limits and costs ADD more possibilities and fun because they counter spamming which is no fun. You already have limitations in the mod think about rangers, gliders, german heavy tanks, ATguns, etc. so think about their purpose. A lot of OP stuff already has limits, other OP stuff doesnt, its just that simple.

but its nice to see different viewpoints about the same thing

[No More Clowns!]

@shadow

i decided to try my hand at modding and changed some values for the wirblewind. i changed the fire rate from 1 to 4 (the mg42 hmg had 16, so it seemed like a reasonable number for a 4-barrel weapon) and it made a world of difference, mostly at close range. when i left my wirblewinds unattended they would get destroyed by sappers with PIAT's. my wirblewinds did stop other infantry dead in their tracks if they came to close. thoughts?

[red devil]

Is there still a version of this mod for coh OF, i just realised that the download link on the mod db says tov repack, and i dont have tales of valor.

[SHADOW]

@lin: I have no idea if this version will be the only one. I never really played the MP much and I'm mostly responsible for SP testing anyaways so what you said may be true, but I didn't know that.

I was just saying that I wouldn't like to see BK getting filled with limits and regulations. Some units are limited for balancing reasons because an overuse of them made games against the AI far too easy or the AI spammed that specific unit (Mortars). But limiting most, if not all, of the units wouldn't be fun anymore, because then only specific combinations within those limits would be possible and that's what takes the fun away, at least for me. I got the same discussion over and over in my other porject (Cold War Crisis - see Signature), some would like to see more hardcaps but I wouldn't like everything being limited only because some people like to spam specific units. Beside I doubt that 50 MP would stop the spammers from building 4-5 trenches (which is not yet spamming for me) in early/mid game game.

Anyways, the last word belongs to Xali.

@Clowns: I'll test it out and report back when I have the time.

@red devil: BK works with OF too, no ToV needed.

[Fritz_Fraghof]

Thanks for your detailed answer about the trenches Shadow. I appreciate your reasoning and I have respect for you guys playing expert AI. Gulp! I have a pretty good match against normal AI.

As an aside, can someone give me any tips using the tank hunter infantry squads? Apart from the British two man PIAT team which is a reasonable ~200 manpower, I find the other tankhunters very expensive at about 450.

I know they can be put into ambush mode, and ambush works in buildings, but I always find they get blown to bits once they give their position away.

I just find them hard to justify buying at the moment when AT guns are a bargain at around 200 manpower. Maybe there is a good spot on the battlefield I am missing, or they are best supported by something else...? Tips appreciated.

[lin]

@shadow - the thing is that this mod is geared towards AI vs human games which is nice for a little time but sooner or later u are gonna get fed up with the AI (beacuse of lots of reasons), and u want real challange so u play humans

the 50mp trench x5 equals 250mp which is the cost of another squad, or u can tech up earlier if u dont build trenches and i wouldnt call that little, well maybe if everyone is involved in team games against AI its nothing, but if u play 1v1 +/-250mp early is a lot trust me

technically the good move would be the recreation of separate MP and SP versions but its much more work and it divides the community so its not a viable option

but yea Xalibur has the final word on this, i dont envy him making decisions like this

@Fritz_Fraghof - ATguns all the way! they are cheap and strong. I always use ATguns as my primary AT and the zooks/shreks for defending the flanks of ATguns to prevent them being overrun/circle strafed by vehicles. So to sum up i wouldnt advise them to be your primary AT capability.

[GunsEmpty]

On VP, the # doesn't go down. I was with 2 Ai VS 3 Ai. Also, after 2 squads being deployed from the glider, regular Rangers all with Bazookas came out.

Look at picture for clarification.

[citizensoldier]

wow, thats a lot o' bazooka joes! noticed that meself, the glider rangers had five men, four bazookas, I'm sure they'll fix it...I just went ahead and fixed it on my own, in the meantime..

[Baracus]

Thats a tigers nightmare! LOL

@Shadow I believe ya on the mortar range, what I base this on is the Germans spamming 4 or more teams and they are hitting my mortar pit and when I go to fire back they are out of the range.

[LloydyBoy]

that could be a good thing not a bug

think for a sec, german tigers, panthers,and panzer 4s roll over the ground well now you have a Super squad filled with Ranger Tankbusters as long as they arnt overpowered then i'm happy

over powered meaning that if they destroy a king tiger in 1 hit then i'd be concerned

[Hell_sajuuk]

I would like to see the sniper finally being able to take out the gunners on the MGs on top of the tanks cause really if we are going for realistic then that should be one of the main things on the list and for them being able to take out drivers of some of the vechiles if that is possible like the jeep and schwimm, you could always put it in the sniper abilities of course don't make it that it can kill heavy tanks (tiger, pershings ect.)

[lin]

@Hell_sajuuk - i agree with you on the sniper thing

@GunsEmpty - is that map reversed defence? coz thats bugged, we already know about it

other - i just played 1 match with brits (i never play them) and i noticed that when u upgrade your infantry section to bren machine guns they gain the button enemy vehicle ability. This button vehicle thing was pretty lame even in vCOH, but you left it in this mod which allegedly focuses on realism and i just dont know why? And before anyone asks why is button BS let me quote what nin3 (pretty good vcoh player) said about this abilty:

bigges lol i ever heard is BUTTON omg, yeah, try BUTTON my 50tons vehicle with anything.... so lame, so Sci-Fi, or whoever the f*ck made it was high on crack

[Muad'Dib]

@lin
From what I know, buttoning enemy vehicles isn't exactly shooting at the vehicle itself but actually focus firing on the drivers (if the tank doesn't have a roof) or the vision slits so that the driver ducks. It was usually done when infantry were in fox holes and the tank driver has no idea where the shots are coming from. It was also used so that tank commanders or other crew members will try to sneak a peek through the top hatch. Infantry with grenades handy will then ambush the open hatch and drop a grenade in. So I suppose buttoning vehicles was actually a real tactic... but made more gameplay realistic rather than completely realistic.

@Hell_sajuuk
I agree with snipers killing tank gunners but not with them being able to kill jeeps, bikes and schwimms since these are its natural counters (gameplay > completely real).

[lin]

tanks in combat used periscopes to view the field (so the crew was not exposed to fire) and with a high RPM machine gun there is no chance that they could hit consistently a 4x1 cm large surface from hundereds of meters to blind the driver, sorry but this is bullshit and if u think that its actually realistic then i dont know what are u smoking

bug - british royal artillery doctrine supercharged rounds ability is not working for me, 25pdr, priest, mortar ranges stay the same

[Baracus]

bug - british royal artillery doctrine supercharged rounds ability is not working for me, 25pdr, priest, mortar ranges stay the same

I noticed the same thing, but thought that was intended

Bug: I dont know if this vcoh or the mod but the staghound when it fires the main gun it has some machine gun sound along with it.

:the pak 38 has the hardest time causing any damage at all to the front of the m10

:German mortar team fires after death of the squad. I had them doing the barrage they got shot off but the rounds kept firing.

[Goreignak]

Periscopes could still be knocked out, forcing folks to use the good old reliable Mark I Eyeball...

Earlier Vex T linked a WWII US Infantry Training Film ( http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1240833450 starting at the 55 second mark) where "Buttoning" is a specified tactic. Granted, training films were as much propaganda as it was actual training, but still...

[Muad'Dib]

@ lin
I read it from the book 'Panzer Leader' by Heinz Guderian. You do know who Guderian is right? (Hint:He's not an expert gamer) BTW, I smoke what I like because I'm actually old enough to buy them.

[No More Clowns!]

@ Baracus

i noticed that the german 81mm mortar gets a +10 to range when selecting the "barrage" ability (to make it 85), while british mortar emplacement keeps the same (75), which might explain the mortars being out of reach. and i think the us 60mm mortar barrage has the same range as the 107mm one at 100.

[Baracus]

That makes sense, thanks clown. thanks for looking I knew something was goofy.

Bug:

:The strafing run for the p47 does not seem to shoot anymore

:PE builds a lot of halftracks, I am not sure what tree they are using but they get an excessive amout on the map.

I also need help finding the crash log data, playing against the PE I took my first CTD today with the new beta and updates.

I found this, if it helps any:::


23:54:54.58 Activating screen: Command_Branch
23:54:57.98 Activating screen: NewObjective_widescreen
23:55:10.00 Transport - median kBPS [hi/cur] sent = 10.0/1.1, recvd = 4.4/1.0, #p/sec[s/r] = 17.8/17.5, max unsent 0, version err 0, merge 4
SIM -- Attempting to query bag not associated with this group type.
Group is of type 8. Query is for type 1. Group name: 'sbps\races\axis_panzer_elite\soldiers\sturmpionier_squad'
-- FATAL EXIT --
simengine/propertysystem/propertybaggroup.h/85:!
--stack trace--

[Instago]

Hey Xalibur & Team,

After watching Stalingrad and re-watching Band of Brothers, I've gotten the craving for some good old CoH action. It's been about a year since I last played.

I've been truly enjoying your mod. Keep up the good work.

[lin]

I read it from the book 'Panzer Leader' by Heinz Guderian. You do know who Guderian is right?

yea, quote it from the book, word by word, then i will believe...

[Muad'Dib]

yea, quote it from the book, word by word, then i will believe...

Whatever kid! I'm not re-reading an entire book just to please some kid with acne problems. I've got grown-up things to do. Bye now... BTW, Yeah is spelled with an "H".

[Xalibur]

Hi folks, get the latest update on first page!

Update 27-06
- reworked US kicker icons (level up)
- 82nd Airborne reinforcement costs set to the same mp amount (44mp) of the "normal" airbornes
- 82nd Airborne reinforcement time reduced
- mobile 17pdr at-gun weapon crew can now be reinforced
- Urban warfare pop cost display fixed
- PE Fallschirmjäger infiltration pop cost display fixed
- GMC CCKW truck now costs 200mp/3pop, same as the opel Blitz
- US tabk commander has now the new vet icons
- US glider rangers limited to 2. The buildable one is now the same as the one that steps out after glider landing
- Ranger smoke grenades moved from position 5 to 6.
- Leaders of volks, grenadiers & Stopßtrupp now have an kar98 that`s looks like an kar98
- fixed Kettenkrad booby trap ability (@Muad'Dib: finally I got it )

new maps:

- 6p Battle of Halbe (by $_TEXAS_$)
- 8p Drachewald

generell balance changes:

- CW mg emplacement now gets VET like the german MG42 emplacements
- 76mm airborne at-gun paradrop costs decreased from 350 to 320 mp
- raised Thompson mp damage from 9-14 to 12-18
- raised Jagdpanther pop ost from 12 to 14 (now like Tiger/Pershing)
- raised all grman tank ace call-in pop costs +2
- PE Kingtiger Ace now comes offmap without the 2 inf squads
- Kingtiger main gun weapon range decreased to 70 (still +10 compared to all other tanks)
- FW190 bombs again set to 8 with decreased damage

balance infantry hitpoints:

- all squad leaders have +10 hitpoints compared to the normal squad members
- Rifles hitpoints raised from 55 to 60 (now the same like volks)
- Airbornes hitpoints raised from 70 to 80 (now the same like PE Fallschirmjäger)
- Urban Warfare squad hitpoints raised from 55 to 70
- decreased engineers and pioneers hitpoints from 55 to 50
- Ranger (buildable) hitpoints raised from 65 to 75
- HQ PE Panzergrenadiers hitpoints raised from 55 to 65

balance infantry costs:

- raised engineers and pioneers mp costs from 150 to 180
- raised volks mp costs from 250 to 265 (kar98 is slightly more powerfull than rifles)
- decreased Urban Warfare squad mp costs from 420 to 400
- raised Ranger Glider call-in from 560 to 600
- Urban Warfare reinforcements costs raised from 18 to 35 mp
- Stormtroop reinforcements costs raised from 42 to 51 mp
- WM FJR6 Fallschirmjäger reinforcements costs raised from 37 to 51 mp
- raised PE Fallschirmjäger paradrop costs from 420 to 450 mp
- decreased PE Fallschirmjäger infiltration costs from 420 to 400 mp

balance infantry limits:

- all cmdr-tree dependent elite infantry squads limited to 2
- normal Airbornes now have also a limit of 4 (prevents AI spamming)

balance infantry upgrade costs:

- Riflemen: M3 Grease Gun upgrade decreased from 55 to 25 munition, you get 2 Grease Guns
- Volksgrenadiere: MP40 upgrade no longer equips the Squad with 6 weapons, only 4 are equipped (adjusted to M3)
- Engineers and Pioneers: cost for flamer upgrade increased from 50 to 65 munition
- Airbornes, Urban Warfare Squad: 2 Thompsons in one Upgrade decreased in cost from 100 to 50 munition because 2 StGW44 for 75 munition are obviously superior
- Ranger-Squad (barracks): 3 Thompsons in one Upgrade accordingly decreased from 100 to 75 Mun munition, now same cost as 2 StGW44
- Urban Warfare Squad: same goes for them, the 4 Thompsons in one Upgrade now cost 100 munition
- Assault Grenadiers: they have now the optione to equip themselves two times with StGW44 by twos for 75 munition each time
- PE-Airforce paratroopers and infiltrators: they now come with one FG42 right from the start and have two upgrades available (even in enemy territory): two G43s for 50 munition and two FG42s for 75 munition. You can mix them
- Stormpioneers: because of their low HP the upgrade with the two StGW44 only costs 50 munition

[lin]

thx for the update

Whatever kid! I'm not re-reading an entire book just to please some kid with acne problems. I've got grown-up things to do. Bye now... BTW, Yeah is spelled with an "H".

well, u cant refute my argument so you insult me by mocking my age (which u obviously dont know) and then my writing... u must be a very clever and pleasant person...

but im done with you so in the future please ignore my posts as i will do the same with your posts

[LloydyBoy]

ahh there is nothing like a unfriendly argument in a thread.

anyway, thanks for the update Xaliber

[DrEvil....EVIL!]

From what I know, buttoning enemy vehicles isn't exactly shooting at the vehicle itself but actually focus firing on the drivers (if the tank doesn't have a roof) or the vision slits so that the driver ducks. It was usually done when infantry were in fox holes and the tank driver has no idea where the shots are coming from. It was also used so that tank commanders or other crew members will try to sneak a peek through the top hatch. Infantry with grenades handy will then ambush the open hatch and drop a grenade in. So I suppose buttoning vehicles was actually a real tactic... but made more gameplay realistic rather than completely realistic.

Button fire, as you describe it, appears to me as an extremely situational and hardly advisable tactic. Also, the German Panzers were equipped with commander cupolas to ensure that the commander didn't need to risk himself to get a better view of the battlefield. As for lobbing a grenade down a tanks turret, this also seems a bit overambitious to me. It was and still is common procedure that all hatches in a tank should be locked in a combat situation.

I read it from the book 'Panzer Leader' by Heinz Guderian.

I have the book myself and I am a bit curious on what pages you found this information.

Mfg DrEvil

[Hell_sajuuk]

lol some of you took it the wrong way I know main battle tanks (panzer IV ect) used periscopes thats why they should only be able to kill jeeps (cause there fully exposed) and gunners on tanks but I do know that jeeps and schwimmers are natural counters so disreguard that, but snipers should be able to kill tank gunners.

[euryanx]

Xalibur, thanks for the update! It's in German though... and am wondering if I should unpack things in the CoH folder or the Blitzkrieg folder?

Edit: Duh. Should have read the instructions on the first page. I see it goes in the Blitz folder.

[LloydyBoy]

oh noes i've been infected

blitzkrieg no longer works for me i am getting the error report as soon as i click the icon

i dont understand it, it worked fine before the Update came out and i installed it

maybe the Data and DataAtrib have got something to do with the crash reports

edit: never mind i fixed it, i had installed pofia mod and 3 items were "accidently" copied from the mod to the whole COh folder deniying COH to work

[Fritz_Fraghof]

Fantastic update Xalibur and team. Thanks.

Does anyone else get a BSOD sometimes when textures are on ultra? I suspect this may be a vanilla COH issue as well, but I thought I 'd ask here.

[No More Clowns!]

@Fritz

COH gets out of whack when you have ultra textures regardless of hardware, very few people can run the game without problems.

@everyone else

the conversation on buttoning vehicles is getting really stupid, really fast. it was probably used on tanks as an act of desperation (like, really really desperate), and probably earlier in the war. it was more likely used on armored cars, halftracks and other lighter vehicles, as these don't have the periscopes, cuppolas, or whatever other garbage people were saying, and instead use vision slats. and even then machineguns and other automatics were used instead of regular rifles like in that video that was posted earlier (by Vex t).

[Baracus]

- 8p Drachewald

This map must have been in before I have played it before.?

the conversation on buttoning vehicles is getting really stupid, really fast. it was probably used on tanks as an act of desperation (like, really really desperate), and probably earlier in the war. it was more likely used on armored cars, halftracks and other lighter vehicles, as these don't have the periscopes, cuppolas, or whatever other garbage people were saying, and instead use vision slats. and even then machineguns and other automatics were used instead of regular rifles like in that video that was posted earlier (by Vex t).

Good point, my question is why is this such an issue, the bots never use on me even against experts?

[No More Clowns!]

@baracus

i don't know what the issue is. all of a sudden there was a lot of rage against this CW ability which, as you pointed out, the AI doesn't even use. then people started attacking each other, calling each other poopy-heads or whatever. whatevs, i guess its good people are this passionate about this game/mod.

[Goreignak]

/shrugs

Guess for some it's easier to insult folks then have a (semi-)intelligent debate. Oh well.

For those that haven't decided to jump on that particular wagon and still wouldn't mind discussing it, even with a copula the commander's vision was still very limited. Here's an up-close pic of a PIV's copula: http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviati...MkIVCopula.htm

Granted, I'm no expert, but it looks like even the vision slits of the commander's copula have shutters that could be closed. I'm not sure if the vision slits have bullet-resistant glass, but if it's anything like modern-day stuff even if a shot doesn't penetrate it'll still spider-web it, making it virtually impossible to see anything out of it. That is, assuming it could be hit -- it's a damn small target.

From what I've found just poking around, I think Buttoning could still technically be a viable tactic.