Reactions to the Beta.

[Steel*Faith]

This runs a lot easier and smoother than company of heroes, which is surprising to me. I have it cranked on ultra, with high res and it runs better than any game I have. I'm very happy about this.

Wow, the Hive tyrant is by the most beastly commander in the game so far. His upgrades can make him tough to deal with in almost every respect. I'm very impressed with the Nids and Orks so far.

DoW II does feel a lot more like DoW than CoH. Which I was hoping for more CoH with melee. I don't know it's weird, it feels like both....but different which is good I guess.

I think i'm not impressed with is the map selection. There's a couple maps I like, like so far. so i've played 3 out of 5 maps. The other thing is the Music doesn't seem as good as I hoped. I loved the Orks music from DoW. Then again I have to keep my sound really low so i'm having trouble hearing all the sound.

To me DoW II is like a band I really like (U2) they change with each new album, and you're so used to their old stuff, and it takes time to appreciate and get a feel for the music. Well that's basically how it is for DoW II, I need more time to get used to it.

[Bowkers]

Played 3 games now. Won 1 lost 2. Basically, I've learnt quickly that the devastator squads are awesome in the early rounds. I haven't really tried many other things, but my basic army that can last for some time is one devastator squad and two tacs with the focus fire upgrade. This along with a predator equals good game. The problem where I have is the eldar storm thingy(I don't know what its called) but it's very effective at destroying you when you think your safe.

So my conclusion is that playing against tyranids, it's quite easy really. Orks the same, it's just Eldar that are the problem. Yet even they in the early skirmishes fall easily to my withering heavy bolters.

[streak]

The maps have been greatly improved from DoW1 (aside from their size). It's close to CoH-type maps, but more packed and usually with focal points where a lot of things are happening at once.

Words cannot describe the feeling you get when an army has blocked off a chokepoint with heavy weapons, and you then bust through the walls flanking their side with a pred tank and a charging venerable dreadnought. mmmmmhm. It's definitely one of the most action-packed and "artistic" RTS games out there.

[DeafMute]

''The Boys Need A Nob' ~Ork Shoota

XD
Silly gay orks.

As for the game.
Im still getting to grips with it.
But I will definatly agree that the gameplay is very very steamlined.
Atleast with tech trees you had an option of a possible outcome of what the enemy would throw at you.
With what we have currently.
I dunno. just feels stagnit.

[BlueJackal]

As a game, much much slower than DOW. Plus feels like its too easy to run around capturing and uncapturing points. Not thrilled, but maybe its just a first impression.

Agreed, of course, I've only played a couple 2v2 games with a friend on a 3v3 map.

I feel like DoW2 needs supply lines like CoH.

Also: the unit icons need to be more obvious. I feel like every icon is really tiny... maybe it's just my 1440x900 resolution. I want to be able to discern unit icons and unit types clearly. Termagaunts and hormagaunts are way too similar. Unit/squad health bars are too tiny.

[Bantam]

I'm really enjoying it. It's odd but I seem to have found an affinity with eldar, despite me disliking them in the original DoW.

Been playing a few games with a Warlock and going 3 Guardians > Tier 2 > Warp Spiders + Wraithlord and it seems to work quite well. Spiders tear through infantry really quickly and their jumping mechanic is great. I feel like I'm being rewarded for good micro.

[D-coy]

@ BlueJackal

I feel the same. There's no sub group selection option, only the icons on the right which are kinda hard to recognize. And it's annoying that you can't select one particular unit subgroup while units are being group selected, you can only select individual squads by clicking on them. AFAIK. It can get tiresome and takes away control IMO.

[anachoret]

Played on old computer, all settings to the opposite of max, ran okay. Techmarine hero, and a few vs. computer games.

I suck; the units don't do what I think they should. An introductory tutorial on basic features of the engine / game for us slow-witted, non-CoH veterans would be nice.

Some quick questions come to mind from messing with it for an hour or so.
What is suppression?
What are the ramifications of garrisoning building?
Do units have stances / auto-attack restrictions?
How does cover work, and can I tell squads to stay in it and not stray to the yellow dots?

[Hirmetrium]

Having had time to reflect over the preview and compare it to my beta experience -
The game speed seems slower, but definately as amazing as I remember.

Like I expected, defensive commanders are sort of weak in the face of juggernaut offensive characters like the warboss who can solo walkers at their 3 with a claw and armour and come out with more HP than most other hero's have all game.

There aren't any ridiculously glaring balance issues yet, like one race dominating everything else, but thats probably because they haven't been discovered.

While I'd like to try a defensive hero, even just using the kommando seemed hard, and I got mowed down very quickly.

Space Marines are of course very powerful, and I've yet to see devestator spam. Suppression is definately an important mechanic, and jump troops are obviously going to be key.

I'm still enjoying it. Slaughtered my way through a bunch of games and hit no.6 on the ladder. Can't be too bad then :P

[Mac_Bug]

I think we need to add in some sort of beginner tutorial ala L4D. While that tends to be annoying sometimes I've had games where my allies did not realize it was actually a VP game. One of my teammates kept his units in the middle of the map and did not move an inch for most of the game, not even to capture the VP within his sight in front and did not react at all to the VP he's supposedly guarding behind him being capped. I told the guy to help, he told me the center is too important.

Also the map pings need to take a page from coh and do exactly what it did - louder beep and have it zoom in on the spot to draw the player's attention.

[auApex_01]

Sigh.

Disclaimer - these are initial impressions based on very limited game play. As such, they could easily be completely wrong. Still, this thread is about 'reactions' so here are mine.

To me, it feels like they've taken the best elements of DoW, the best elements of CoH, then thrown them all away and made a game with what's left. It lacks the diverse options (through unit variety and base-building) of DoW and lacks the strategic complexity of CoH (although the game is definitely a lot closer to CoH than DoW).

The units feel really sluggish and as you are unable to 'cap' points (with listening posts or something similar), it feels like you are constantly running around the map trying to take points and prevent yours from being taken, and there isn't ever enough time for actual battles to take place. I appreciate that it's a dynamic game but so was DoW and there were always amazing face-offs in good 1v1's - here it seems like you are either avoiding the enemy or making a futile attempt to chase after them.

Well, that's what I think after 2 hours with the game. It's nowhere near enough to decide if the game is actually half-decent so hopefully my initial impressions are wrong. I don't have the patience or time to play a game that I don't find enjoyable so I'm going to wait and see what the community consensus is after a couple of weeks before jumping back in. I really hope I've got it completely wrong!

[DeafMute]

A more informed opinion on mine is that after around 5-6games. and playing as all of the 4 races.

I throughly agree that the game feels really sluggish. Where is this fast paced action that you spoke of Johnny? Id like to play it.
cause it sounds good!



Definatly agree that the supply lines mech should be incorparated.
I dunno why it wasnt tbh. Really. id like to know the reason why!?

And it does feel like a game of cat and mouse.
I utterly agree with auApex.

[Steel*Faith]

I feel like DoW2 needs supply lines like CoH.

This would be ice.

I think most of DoW II's "problems" are could be easily fixed. A supply line feature wouldn't be hard to implement.

I was hoping the AI would be better to play, as i'm a comp stomp maniac, but I don't like how it spams vehicles asap. It's like as soon as they can make vehicles, it won't make any other units to support them. Just walker spams.

I definitely need to play agaisnt human opponents, and save the SP campaign for comp stomping it seems. At least until there's a AI mod. CoH AI was much better in this respect, as it didn't feel spammy.

I have to play DoW II a lot more to really make a judgment, but I think it's a great game so far and much better than DoW. Definitely my favorite RTs, but it might be tied with CoH.

[Dux]

This game is excellent. Relic took the best elements from CoH and DoW and put them together magnificently. Everything just feels right.

[Mac_Bug]

Why isn't there a hotkey for reinforce?

The readme says R is the button

[GodisanAtheist]

I'm going to tentatively join the chorus of lukewarm impressions. Disclaimer here is that I've only played Nids, albeit somewhat extensively (10-15 games). Take this as a "Nids" first impression.

Pro:
- Really like the new interface and upgrade system. Everything you need is in the lower right hand corner and simple predefined hotkeys makes switching between building and units a relative breeze.

-Moving the tech tree onto the units rather than a bunch of buildings. Everything you need is right there on the unit. No more global bonuses it seems (aside from those wrapped up in HQ upgrades).

-Graphics and physics are done extremely well, and the game plays amazingly well. After coming off the 10 FPS CoH train this is extremely refreshing to see. Could be thanks to the smaller scale or optimization, but whatever it is, I welcome it.

-Commanders. Its like the branch system of CoH, only tied to a commander. And cut down a lot but never mind that.

Cons:
-The game feels sluggish. When I click to attack, move or do anything, there is a barely perceptible pause between my issuing orders and them being carried out. This leads to the old frustrated hyperclick where you simply mash the rightclick half a dozen times by habit. Also, unit cohesion can be extremely annoying when the first gaunt to reach an enemy won't attack until all of his buddies are in range as well. It can break the flow of the action pretty badly as gaunts (or whatever) cluster around some scouts... THEN POUNCE! This issue was much lessened by going ranged, so maybe eldar and space marines don't feel it as much as nids do.

-The sound and its accompanying screen effects. They're weak to non-existant. Perhaps its merely a symptom of the smaller scale, but it sounds like the deep basey sounds of the first game have been replaced by very hi-fi crisp sounds that lack the "oomph" of the previous game. As for screen effects: Remember in the first game when something explodes and the screen wobbles or shakes slightly to add some visual depth to the sound? It doesn't really seem to happen in this game. The camera stays perfectly detached from the carnage on the screen, and it misses out on an opportunity to get the player into the action.

-Some unit animations (such as the tyrant's basic melee attack) are just flat out BAD.

-There really needs to be some sort of listening post. I noticed that power gens have to be "destroyed" before they can be capped, but they're so paltry that they couldn't hold up for more than 5 seconds against even a modestly armed foe, this is to say nothing of command points. You have your work cut out for you trying to keep anything alive, and on TOP of that you have to riverdance your troops across half the damn map to anything and everything thats getting capped.

Ultimately it looks like Relic really got the basics and fundamentals of a solid RTS down, but they completely passed over the flair of the game. Yeah too many sync kills throw some of the balance thanks to unit invulnerability, but it was fun and it drew casual players into the game.

Again, maybe I'm just dead wrong on this stuff, and I honestly do need to play a lot more of the game (I've played all my games as nids and all of those as a tyrant no less) but this is a first impressions thread.

[D-coy]

I want to apologize for beating the game for not having a standard UI with subgroups and all the snazzy stuff. I've found it and it works great.

Had some more fun with the AI, I really dig the Eldar.

The more I play the better this game is.

Also played online as Ork mekboy, won once, lost once. Teamplay makes or breaks the online experience (in team games). If one player is sluggish doesn't caps points then you might end up being on the defensive. And it's a downhill battle from there.

One thing I'd like to note is that retreating doesn't always work. I once got smashed by an 'ambush ' set up by an opponent ork and my units got stuck, so they melted. Sniff.

[Mazinkaiser]

Ok first impressions from me, playing quite a bit as the techmarine so far :

Dear Relic,

The UI interface is REALLY nice. At first things what a bit weird and akward, but that's because I was overthinking it! The UI has a lot of really great, intuitive, quick to access features. Even though there's some micromanaging to do, it's so easy. Everything is available from the same menu. A+++ !

The techmarine is also really cool. Setting up turrets and beacons kind of reminds me of the engineer from tf2 . I've heard a lot of people say he's overpowered, but I don't think that's the case... at least so far. There are definitely ways to counter him, I just don't think most people figured it out yet. Rushing him in melee or finding paths around his turrents come to mind.

This doesn't really feel like Dawn of War 2... it really seems like a totally new series! I haven't played CoH, but this one barely reads as Dawn of War. Multiplayer at least is a totally new game really. Not that that's a bad thing.

I'll keep beta testing and playing with friends, I'm not sure if I'm going to pre-order the game yet. It's not a bad game, and there are certainly fun moments, but right now I'm not 100% sure it's worth the price... yet. I'll let you know if I change my mind. Thank you for reading!

[SteinerNein]

The readme says R is the button

TOUCHE .. but what about the other issues?

I suppose I should read the read me =( but it would've been nice to have a key already there in graphical representation.

[D-coy]

@ Mazinkaiser

Just so you know there are no such things as turreNts, only turrets (that's without the N) .

@ Everyone

Khm. I fully understand that I may be utterly wrong on this, but please, take a look at what I'm trying to imply.

I might know why the gameplay feels sluggish and fails to bring us a satisfying experience. Let me explain.

The unit count is low and resources are thin, so you will always want to save your squad from being killed. There are two ways of doing this. Either you mash on the retreat button when you see overwhelming odds or you flank the enemy and try to capture points they can't defend. This results in a capping game and not much fighting is done. When units do confront, some nice but still extreme abilities or heroes will assure that there'll be no brawling, since it's not hard to judge who'd come out on top at the beginning of a fight. So you either fight on, because you have the upper hand or you retreat (or die and lose a lot of resources which again makes the game action-less, ow). Of course if you retreat the other guy will pursue you.

In the end all you do is defend points avoid superior numbers and mow down fleeing troops.

This issue might be solved by allowing more units to be trained or speeding up resource collection just a bit.

[SteinerNein]

@ D-Coy

I don't know about you but from my experience it has been a fact that people hang around until it becomes apparent that there is no chance of winning. That or the people you play with or against play far too passively.

[D-coy]

I guess you're right, I've only played two online matches after all. But that'll change asap.

[Steel*Faith]

Wow, the more I play the more I love it. Playing people has made a world of difference than playing the comp. This might be the first RTS game I play online regularly.

DoW II has definitely made me a Tyranid fan too. Although out of all the races, I think Space Marines are my favorite to play with.

[Bantam]

I've played a bit more with 'nids now. The Lictor is amazing. Hooks and the leap ability can keep a hero knocked down pretty much permanently if you don't miss on your leaps. You can easily take down an enemy hero if you catch him away from support without taking very much damage.

I love the lethality too. If you aren't paying attention it's easy to lose squads which in my view is a good change.

[kommodore]

Feels like a dumbed down CoH (I know CoH was inspired by DOW1) but its come full circle.

Its like CoH if you take out half the units, half the doctrine powers, and alot of the strategy and micro. Some of the units dont even have abilities, when unit types are so few they should all have multiple uses and powers.

Its fun at times, but I dont see how in-depth you can get with so few units both variety and population wise.

Gametypes are the same as CoH, VP & Annihilate. It just doesnt feel new enough, nothing has been added or improved upon from CoH really.

Played several 3v3 VP and Annihilation, the latter games took forever and werent much fun, VP was alot faster and better. Was mostly Space Marines.

[cyborgZero]

It feels like Relic was trying to include too many ideas into the game, making it confusing and chaotic.

Suppressing occurs way too fast

Hard to tell if your units are really behind cover

Hero's get stuck on obstacles

There is no hard counter, every unit seems to do something wierd

Tried to stuff all the unit information in the bottom right corner, making it crowded


Company of heroes takes the cake with this comparison

[Talos]

Not impressed so far. It does not feel like DOW 1 or COH. It feels like some sort of bastard child of the two thats not to sure what it wants to be like.

TBH I Was really hope for COH in space. I have only played around 6 games but so far it just feels really dumbed down there are just not enough units.

[craNk]

Sounds like nearly all my fears were justified.

[DeafMute]

Hey CRANK. another fuck annoying aspect of the game pvp wise.
is that whoever sets up a HWT (heavy weapons team) first in a cross point. Fuckign wins hands down.

You get supressed almost instantly. your men drop like flies soon after.
Then with each squad costing Heaven, Hell and even the god damn EARTH to summon (basic tac squad 500req) you stand little to no chance of getting them back since by the time youve a counter to a HWT (say, an assault marine squad) they will have an answer to it.

So really. the moment you lose a squad.
May aswell call it a day cause its so easy and quick to cap the map.

Alot of negatives I can say about this game.

[SmellyTerror]

I like it.

My only gripe is that, with no LPs or defence, the game is TOO mobile. Never thought I'd say that. The best strategy seems to me to be just scattering over the map and nabbing points all over the place. I'm an old man of 34 winters, and I can't coordinate all of that crap. I want two battles going on at once, tops. Big ones. With 'splosions to keep me awake.

So since I (and most humans) can't keep individual units on cap dances, we just spend out time with 2 or 3 forces running around the map capping, and never actually fighting anything. If we see something bigger than us, we run and scatter to cap more things. If the enemy sees us coming with a big force they run and scatter and cap more things.

I don't want to play Cap Wars. I want killin'.

"Three seconds of thinking about it" solution: remove most of the points on the map. 2 power, 1 req, 1 VP. Done. You don't want complex CoH supply lines or DoW bases and defences? Fine. Then don't leave all that junk lying around the map that we don't need any more. :P That's probalby stupid, but I'm drunk and tired. G'night all! Happy killin'!

PS:

You get supressed almost instantly. your men drop like flies soon after.
Then with each squad costing Heaven, Hell and even the god damn EARTH to summon (basic tac squad 500req) you stand little to no chance of getting them back since by the time youve a counter to a HWT (say, an assault marine squad) they will have an answer to it.

You've played COH? That's what the x key is for. Supression is, when you're just learning the game, an insta retreat (and after you've got the details down, still very often a retreat). With maps so open and caps so easy, go cap something else, or flank it, or stick something in cover at long range while something else flanks it, etc. Deployables suck when they have to keep moving, as they do as the game stands.

Getting hosed by an MG42 is something everyone has to come to terms with.

[SteinerNein]

This game is more or less the equivalent of playing a table top game with around 500-1,000 points if you were to make a comparison.

While the surpression thing is pretty big at the same time there are plenty of work arounds - ironically, despite disliking almost ... err.. I mean I am pretty much going to defend the game for a few days and see if the top players of beta can tactically out wit players who rely so heavily on surpression teams.

Also, for Space Marine players - I do not think tactical squads are at all worth it. Either go scout or devastator or do something relating to scouts.

Yes, the key is not to lose a squad - learn2micro or read the map better for the time being. We'll see when many more games are played if there is an imbalance case. However, to strike against Relic the following must be said: Why do you guys insist on not putting hard stats in a viewable manner in game along with vulnerabilities etc. that make sense - something like Starcraft? It would clarify things a lot more and make balancing less tedious.


To be honest, those smoking CoH's pole are missing something : DoW 2 and CoH can almost be said to be equals in many regards, if you were comparing this to Starcraft you'd have a point but that would be one sided. Again, look at the game by its own merits and you'll see that while simplistic it still yields to fun and can be competitive.

[DeafMute]

Smelly Terror.

I own CoH ~-OF
Played all 4 factions.
know exactly how supression works.

but this game.
unless im holding my eyes shut as my squad gets supressed.
Its instant.
Whilst in CoH. you could crawl away.

I stand by my point though. whoever steps up in a crit location (and since there is so few maps. those locals will quickly be figured out) it isnt going to be hard to absolutly abuse supression.

Range also played a huge factor in CoH MG42. close to med. it owns. longer range. takes it time.
See?
Whilst in DoW2. its almost instant gib.

[SteinerNein]

@ DeafMute

You aren't a top player. Let us give it some time and let those who are talented and those who spend too much time on the game to help us out. Wait and see.

[Steel*Faith]

This is still Beta, guess people forget that.

I still think some of you are blowing things out of proportion, and not palying the game enough.

You get supressed almost instantly. your men drop like flies soon after.
Then with each squad costing Heaven, Hell and even the god damn EARTH to summon (basic tac squad 500req) you stand little to no chance of getting them back since by the time youve a counter to a HWT (say, an assault marine squad) they will have an answer to it.

I've been beaten back by suppression, and had to regroup. It can be countered in many ways, depending on your race. This is why Assault/jump troops are important.

I play nids a lot, and I always make Rippers with Synapse creatures around. They CAN'T be suppressed, and can tie those heavy bolters ect up very nicely, then the swarm moves in for the kill.

Play more before you start going on rants and telling people the game sucks.

[SteinerNein]

@ Paladin Might

Yes, and beta threads tend to have knee-jerk responses. Should've seen the WC3 beta threads ;(

There's also the usage of infiltrate and early upgrades to deal with surpression. However, I will say it is a very easy noob killer and that's all it is.

[Hirmetrium]

Suppression is powerful and deadly because its easily broken - space marines have "and they shall know no fear" and orks get a "Reckless" skill, so its dead easy to break and run away. Think of it that suppression is really deadly, but every unit has fireup so its not so bad.

I think the key to DoW2 will be 1. Learning to setup weapon teams and choke people and 2. How to take them down without flanking.

craNK - play the game yourself on the 28th. Theres so many conflicting opinions in this thread its like marmite - love it or hate it. Some, like me, claim its a perfect fusion between COH and DoW1 - others disagree completely. Only you can decide, and I don't think you want to be one of those people who goes by other people's opinions

[Steel*Faith]

However, I will say it is a very easy noob killer and that's all it is.

There's tons of abilities and unit combos that aren't even being used. A lot of people aren't even using their special abilities. This games a lot more complex and tactical than some are leading others to believe.

I honestly have little problem with suppression units, depending on the situation. Eldar support platforms are nasty though, and their units mobility and firepower is tough to stop. I finally realized that the Hive tyrant is awesome, but can be stopped easily if put in the wrong tactical situation. I love how they made the gameplay like the fluff, you really need to screen your synapse creatures with fodder, or you're screwed.

By the way if Mirage Knight sees this, the zoanthrope does have a defensive ability that makes him hard to kill, and he does this with his psychic ability. So they once again made nid units fluffy. That PC gamer UK review was a load of crap.

Cover not important...hahaha!

[SmellyTerror]

Range also played a huge factor in CoH MG42. close to med. it owns. longer range. takes it time.
See?
Whilst in DoW2. its almost instant gib.

(Still here, feeding baby)

I have to say my experience is different to yours then. I've sat units at long range in yellow cover against a couple of the HWTs with minimal damage. I watched a group of Tyranid Warriors walk along my Shuri Plat's range arc and essentially ignore it. All the old CoH tactics seem to work as well as always, and now there are jump troops and suppress immune units to boot.

*shrug* Dunno what you're doing, but supression is not looking to be a big deal for most people here...

...I do think the fights themselves go too fast - once it gets heated, things pop all over the place. Given you spend 90% of the time wandering around wishing there was something to kill, I'd like the fight to go a bit longer. And is it me, or are the warnings weird? As in, you get vocals right down to "Termagant killed", but nothing when your commander is under attack? And is there a zoom-to-message key? Space doesn't do it. I need that crutch, dammit....

---
Oh, and to answer some of the "this game is too simplistic" stuff: a lot of games only have 10-odd viable units. The upgrades you pick make a few of those into essentially different units, too. Then there's the one building: needing to build a second building after teching doesn't make it more strategic. Putting the upgrades into yet other buildings doesn't make it more strategic either. I like the changes there. All the units in one place, all the upgrades on the units themselves. Nice.

[Malleus]

Only dead fishes follows the stream. :P

(Sucks to be working when theres a beta out!)

[Goliath]

im going to give it another go, just in case i was tired, but this game will have to win back my heart and mind if it wants me to think about buying it again.

I have had similar experiences with the insta-gib suppression, and unreactive sqauds not really being in cover?!

also a lot of the abilities dont seem to make a blind bit of difference.

[SteinerNein]

I think the key to DoW2 will be 1. Learning to setup weapon teams and choke people and 2. How to take them down without flanking.

You should really expand on it: It's not only learning where to set up but when to set them up (like CoH - IRONIC LULZ! ) and when to pull them out. There are a bunch of counters people have listed (jumps/flanking/ignoring/etc) and hopefully there will be more.

There's tons of abilities and unit combos that aren't even being used. A lot of people aren't even using their special abilities. This games a lot more complex and tactical than some are leading others to believe.

Also a lot of people probably aren't upgrading either. =/

[KPMaker]

WoW, to me the game feels a little too fast.

Having played for about 7 hours straight, I can say that it is fun and it is more tactical in the sense that cover is more important, and there seems to be a counter so far for every perceivable OP issue (it appears at 1st and then you learn the counter.)

The unit roster is fine to start out with (well maybe one unit shy per race, but close enough.) Also, one thing I think would make this game much more enjoyable is at least 4-6 more units per race which would bring a greater variety to each faction (of course with expansions.)

One thing I noticed with the universal powers per hero is that each one only has 2 unique abilities with 2-3 common ones shared across the board. I would love to see each commander with a completely different set of abilities (too much redundancy IMO.)


The things I really do not like:

Small maps.
Lack of real arty.
No resource territory system like CoH.
Unit roster feels short compared to CoH (It is actually fine, but without more static defenses you just do not seem to get that same epic feel like CoH.)



Overall I will of course still buy it with hopes that the maps get bigger, real arty is incorporated, and possibly more static defenses are included.

It does not trump CoH for me though; I just love the idea of being able to build a strong front line and then slowly pushing forward. I know DoW2 was not designed this way, but if you ask me CoH in space would have been so much more enjoyable.

Summary:
DoW 2 seems like a 500-1,000 point TT game.
CoH in Space seems like it could have been a 15,000 point TT game.

You take a guess at which would be more enjoyable.



Peace in the Middle of the Far Far Galaxy in the East…..

[FooF]

After about 10 games, here are my initial impressions:

Gorgeous game. I bumped it up to Ultra after a few games (and this is without updating my drivers) and it was smooth as butter. I haven't tried since updating drivers.

Sound effects are pretty good, though I agree with the sentiment that there's not a lot of "oomph" behind some things. When you heard Shermans firing in CoH, you didn't mistake them for anything else. Not so with some of the heavier weapons here.

Suppression is very powerful but it's not unbreakable. Yes, overlapping fields of "MG" fire will pretty much instantly suppress most everything from Commanders below. However, no one seems to be using jump troops yet. Everyone wants the "MG." Against even powerful units like Tacs, suppression does the trick but against, say, ASMs, Dev Squads get wasted.

Commanders are great. I've been mostly playing SM but even there, I can tell the difference between the 3 Commanders. The Apoth is far better than I expected him to be and the Techmarine isn't as OP as I thought, either. Turrets are 30 power, which is a lot. Still haven't gotten a Venerable Dread out but I have had two squads of Termies plus a FC in Termie armor in one game. Termies are ridiculous but they cost 900 Req and 900 Zeal!

Zeal does not come in as fast as I thought it would. Only by late game are you able to use more than one ability in fairly short order. I don't even bother with the lower tier Commander options because I don't gain enough Zeal to make up for it.

Speaking of resources, the income levels are conducive to the Retreat mechanism. That is to say, you can't needlessly lose entire squads or you'll feel like you're always behind economically. Because there are so many upgrades, it's tempting to spend all your resources on Commander gear or whatnot but I don't know if that's prudent. Getting squads out seems to be more important to me because even a fully upgraded Tac squad isn't that much more powerful than an unupgraded one. Power can come in pretty quickly if you get Gens on them but Req seems to be the slowpoke. Even with something like 300 Req a minute, you'd be surprised at how little you have at times.

Vehicles are powerful, as they should be, but they die very quickly to AT. Transports can be knocked out in as little as 3 rocket hits. Rear armor attacks are brutal. However, against non-AT, they're almost immune. They can be taken down by non-AT infantry but they'll more than kill their own cost in units. Repairing vehicles can be tricky though. If you don't have a Commander that repairs, sometimes the repair function is on less-than-intuitive units. Scouts repair?

The Maps. To be honest, I haven't gotten sick of any yet and I think they're well designed. Sometimes they're are just too many points to protect though and ninja capping is a little too prevalent. LP's on Req points is needed, imo. Power points with LPs can take quite a bit of small arms fire but Req points are just too vulnerable.

Momentum. This has been the key for me, thus far. Since reinforcements can come few and far between, your army needs to always be moving forward and not taking too many losses. The moment your advance stalls, you have to retreat back to base to heal and you give up a ton of ground. The one gripe I have right now is unit movement speed. Everything seems sluggish and slow. If you have to retreat, it takes forever to get back to the front, it feels like.

Overall, it has met expectations but hasn't exceeded them yet. I'm having fun (and 3v3 is 10x more fun than 1v1) and the action is great but there's still some setbacks that keep it from being phenomenal.

[Alegis]

Also getting the impression the more I play the more I like it. Tried SM, but I'm starting to love Smelldar.


Maybe a faster req rate and thus having more units (in DoW I had to be careful not to reach the cap, here it doesn't seem like a problem really until really late in the game) would prove for interesting games ... in any case I haven't played much at all though.

Definitely different, definitely needs some getting used to and letting it sink in first.

By the way, is levitate only a close range AoE?

[DerTiger]

Hey, im new to dow and its pretty hard in beginning to play.Isnt there a tutorial or something like that?

[SteinerNein]

@ DerTiger

Nope ;( Just smash your face in games or bug the crap out of ESRFoof/Hirmrmrtriumz/<insert whoever else is prolific> for a write up.

[Hirmetrium]

DerTiger - I'll try and write something when I get home, I'm busy at work at the moment but I'm aware a lot of people are struggling (not least of all the 4 people I trashed last night). Theres no tutorial, but I recommend browsing the COH beginner guides, since some of them apply.

After that, try and understand the units your army has and in the armies you face. The community website has a race breakdown with ALL units and a lot of the global skills. Reading and understanding these will help you learn what your up against and what you'll want to field in certain situations.

[DerTiger]

That would be pretty nice!
Its senseless to get as absolute noob a automatch,u just get bashed^^..Some guys said its not really strategic game,i dont hope that,but im definitly stick to coh too

[Robert Frazer]

There is no hard counter, every unit seems to do something wierd

I don't see why this is a criticism. In just having one set solution to each set problem, hard counters remove depth and degenerate gameplay to simplistic rock/paper/scissors trade-offs. Their removal means that players have to more carefully consider their units, and is to be encouraged.

People cry for tactical depth - when they're given it, they turn their noses up at it...! It seems to me that a lot of people are actively determined to be disappointed.

[Mithie]

I found that if you're playing SM vs SM mirror matches (90% of the games out there) your first unit out NEEDS to be the ASM, and whoever can micro their ASM + hero better, decides the game.

Also - the Kommando Nob absolutely dominates smaller maps compared to the warboss or mekboy. I also found the Force Commander to be much harder to play compared to the techmarine or apoth.

Anyway - RELIC: WHAT DID YOU DO TO MY LAND RAIDER?