As the Orks say, "Mines got the biggest boom!" but where's the boom?

[Thoragoros]

Okay, I got the beta, great graphics, pretty smooth (nothing a day 1 patch won’t fix in the tech area), voice acting is stellar, if not as memorable as the first DoW, and I have to say I'm presently surprised by the 'commander' selection themes.

Please, before accusing me of whining or anything like that, please, just hear me out here, okay?

Just one thing is bothering me, where's the stuff that goes 'boom?' In CoH, explosions rocked the maps from top to bottom in hard fought games, and even quick 1vs1 games would see their share of destruction. Artillery would blast apart anything in their path, leaving smoldering ruins, while tanks would smash apart cover and leave generally nothing in their wake.

Yet in this game, I was a little surprised to see just how little destruction each side deals out. First of all, the terrain is not that destructible. In other words, don’t go looking for the bloody scars your hard fought battles leave behind. For instance, I played and exchanged several points literally dozens of times on some of the map, and yet besides the few boxes and small walls that the dreadnaughts and wraithguards knocked down, the place was left pretty clean.

There's no 'action factor' here. The chaotic battles of DoW1 are gone, while the destruction of CoH is oddly absent. Is anyone else left with the feeling of "Where's my boom?"

Apologies from a disillusioned Exarch,
Thoragoros

[D-coy]

After playing 3 skirmishes (though on the same map), I agree.

There's no ooomph, units are hard to see, and are slow because of the far out camera view. The sound FX lack power.

No in your face action. Maybe I have to play multi, or get better, so I won't only concentrate on the basics, missing some bangs, but the game feels to be too plain.

Voices are cool though.

[LordZon]

Ha, people gripe that the camera is too close in DoW1 and the bitch it's too far out in DoW2. You can adjust how far out your camera is you know.

[Shadow'sTalon]

I also agree here...I was getting all excited about this game and the fact that the terrain is just going to turn into a wasteland once you get a hard fought battle between the Marines and Orks going...but no...it looks like each side tip-toed through and merely took some of the ruins with them. The persistent bodies is lacking too. I was hoping to see Marine fire just blazing through a squad of Orks only to be ambushed from another direction as stikbombz are thrown in creating a shocking amount of sound FX as you wheel around and drop a Dred right into the fray. Then out of no where, a Deff Dred busts through the foliage and an epic battle between the two ensue as bullets just ricochet off their metal exteriors. All the while, just things igniting on fire all around from explosions...but no...it's not there.

[whatsleft]

u mean there is no scarring of the land with grenades/plasma/tank shots/artillery?

persistent bodies lacked since coh, so im not surprised.

and the epic battle that talon described, imo, thats more of multiplayer, where players use abilities and flank each other, thus creating that battle unless u are talking about the AI, then imo, relic's AI has always been lacking, so nothing surprising there(most probably thats too advanced.)

[ÜberJumper]

I definately saw destructible terrain. My units were knocking down trees and walls in the first game I played.

[LordZon]

I just played a map where eldrich storm destroyed all the cover in the middle of the map. It works about like CoH.

[D-coy]

I guess what the OP and me meant was that destroying cover is not as influential or awesome looking as we might have expected.

[whatsleft]

this is just an assumption

could it be due to the lack of heavy artillery in dow2 that there is very little destruction?

[streak]

The predator could use a bit more punch in its main cannon... but other than that, you can't really fault the game for lacking action. Walls, cover and buildings come down easily if you ram them with a vehicle. You can flatten a city if you run through it with a tracked vehicle enough times. I guess the tyranids don't really have any explosive weapons except for that green shit, so they might not be as flashy as the rest.

[DeafMute]

Definatly feel that the game just needs more to it.
Extremly steam lined as Ive said.

Is relic expecting 10 yr olds to be playing this game?
Come on. Please.
Dont insult us.

[cyborgZero]

COH>>>DOW2

I just played several games, and I hate myself for pre-ordering this game

[Rhedd]

Yeah. I haven't played a ton of games yet, but I agree.

Compared to CoH, there's no UMPH!

WWII was scary, and all, but I kind of expected plasma cannon-wielding Space Marines fighting the enemies of all Mankind to be just a little bit more...more.

(You can cancel pre-orders, you know, cyborg.)

[Steel*Faith]

There's no 'action factor' here. The chaotic battles of DoW1 are gone, while the destruction of CoH is oddly absent. Is anyone else left with the feeling of "Where's my boom?"

HA! Seriously guys you need to play more, I thought the same AT FIRST. There's a lot of abilities and units people aren't utilizing online, and that makes a big difference. I just played an Ork player that used a Kommando Nob, and damn he was throwing explosives, and blowing the map to hell!!!! Then those Stikk Bommaz if used right can do some mean damage as well.

When I use Nids, I always try and use Spore Mines. They are devastating. Want to talk about BOOM!? I snuck one group of spore mines into a horde of an any players gaunts and took out 3 squads with one spore mine squad. Did the same to a SM player, and took out 2 squads of tacticals, and a squad of scouts.

Have any of you fought Dreadnoughts yet? What about the Carnifex or Avatar rampaging through the map, smashing everything into the ground?

I seriously think you guys need to play more and experience the game. People aren't utilizing the units and abilities of this game. Don't judge the game if you haven't fully experienced it yet. This is as bad as the PC Gamer Uk.

[FooF]

There's no lack of destruction, especially on the desert map where the entire center is destroyable.

What I'm finding is that the game just appears to be slower than CoH/DoW. The units just move too slow. That's the one major thing bothering me at this point.

[Thoragoros]

ERSFooF and Paladin,

If the entire center can be destroyed, do you mind telling us what units are capable of dealing out that kind of destruction? Where are the blasts, the explosions, etc?

I'm not talking about a dreadnaught walking through a knee-high wall either, I'm talking about the kind of chaos we saw in DoW1 and the kind of destruction we came to expect from CoH. It simply is not here. I'm not seeing infantry units dart around like the did in CoH, nor am I seeing the war-level destruction that I loved in CoH either. It's like this game was a stepforward graphically, but two steps back in execution.

I'm just a little confused as the lack of action this game seems to present.

[Noble]

It seems like you guys just want artillery units.

I'll admit that I didn't see that many explosive weapons. As Eldar the only explosive I really had at my disposal was the guardian grenades. I still saw the terrain getting destroyed though, usually by vehicles moving through the area and just crushing through walls and other map doodads.

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

I felt the same way when I played initially, and I haven't really played enough yet.

I feel it's much closer to CoH than DoW though, which is a shame because no matter how much I tried to like CoH, I never could quite do it.

[Thoragoros]

@ Noble,

Noble, that's just it, why is destruction limited to a dreadnaught walking through a knee-high wall or a pile of crates? I know this may sound petty, but as much as I;'m trying to like this, and as much as I want to like, I'm just not feeling any amount of 'wow' and I need to be honest.

[Noble]

Well, the way I played Eldar the other night, was a heavy focus on ranged combat. Spiders, lots of guardians, lots of grav platforms and maybe a Wraithlord thrown in for good measure. By virtue of that, my army simply didn't employ that many explosive weapons.

That said, I wreaked quite a bit of carnage. Sure I wasn't laying waste to the landscape with howitzers or 88s like in CoH, but I was gibbing dozens of orks at a time with my spiders. Brightlances look and sound satisfying as well.

Perhaps there are other commanders that are more focused on explosive weapons, like the kommando. I just haven't tried enough of them to say one way or the other.

[D-coy]

Someone must try out the Burna Bomb.

[Thoragoros]

Well, considering that each Commander has access to the same units, the only difference being abilities, I'm not sure what difference it would make. the Ork Roks ability is essentially the great 'pebbling from the sky' with minimal blasts, and minimal destruction, except, again, to the knee-high walls and crates, and Orbital bombardment may look great, but the truth is it just doesn't get used that often due to the cost.

Also, pretty much everything could make an impact in CoH, from the grenades to AT weapons and mortars to the awesome destruction of the artillery. Yet in this game, grenades are more of a throwback to the old rts nades of old, while there are no mortar or AT equiviliants to be spoken of here.

This is, action wise and destruction wise, not even approaching the scale of CoH, and that's sad, considering CoH was supposed to be the bar setter for Relic.

[Surrealitycheck]

You should check out the call in artillery (rokz, orbital bombardment) and the kommando nobz explosives (big bewms).

The looted tank also has a pretty sweet main gun, definitely worth checking out

[D-coy]

I think the game lacks that camera shaking effect which occurs when your viewpoint is close to an explosion or some serious dakka (like heavy bolters).

[Freakiq]

The sound effects seem to be very low sometimes.


Also the units seem to have almost no weight, needs some heave footfalls when space marines walk and maybe have them leave some footpints.


I also agree with the speed issue.

[Enosh]

-.-
on one forum I read that DoW2 is too fast, here it is too slow
one forum says that there is too much micro, on a difrent one it is to few

are you guys playing the same game?

can't wait to get home and go into the beta myself to make my own oppinion of the game

[streak]

there's no "us guys" of course, different people think different things

[Cheesenium]

Im gonna miss seeing the destroyed terrain then.

[sturmgewher42]

I have to agree with the start of this thread, and I'm not talking about arty. There is no "flash" to the fighting. Where's all the gunfire,particle beams,tracers etc.? I've seen Dreadnaughts,Predators, Fire Prisms, etc. and they lack any sfx. They are very boring to watch.
I guess I'm talking about the volume of fire coming from the units. The only unit I have seen that projects firepower is the Warp Spiders. I was expecting more ( and better ) of the DoW type of combat with flame and tracers flying everywhere. The trailers showed this, so maybe it's just not programmed into the beta. dunno

[Noble]

Maybe its just because I've been whoring Eldar, but I feel like they put out quite a lot of tracers, beams, and other pretty weapon effects. Even their guardians seem to light up a whole area when they open fire. Hell the whole reason I've been playing Eldar so much is because their pew-pew lasers look so damn cool.

[D-coy]

The melee sounds are seriously lacking. Try hitting a power node with a FC who has a Power Fist equipped. It sounds like he's trying to hit a rusty bucket with a crowbar. Where are the glorious swinging, buzzing, swoooshing sounds of thunder and lightning featured in the original?

[Zwebbie]

Are all the sound files actually in high quality in the Beta? Opposing Fronts' Beta had only low setting sounds and wasn't all that pleasant on the ear either - maybe the same thing is happening here.

[rushtodeath]

I don't know... I think you guys must not have seen the fire prism yet... when that thing fires its main cannon its like FWOOM! big explosion ball and everything goes flying

I do agree that the sound is lacking however.

[Mormoran]

One of the things I liked the most about DoW was the nec's monolith. With all it's metallic machine like sounds, all the light effects from it's guns, the huge blast from the particle whip cannon, creating a hute smoke cloud and throwing everyone back...

I loved the chaos, and I would like to see that aswell in DoW2

[Inst]

There's an unfortunate lack of terrain deformation, however. And there's no 3d terrain; everything seems to be on the same level.

[Knight_Kin]

@Zwebbie

That's what it sounds like to me, so many sound fx sound closed in like they're being played inside a bottle and you're listening to them through the end. AKA "low sound quality" turd, i HOPE that's what's happening here.

It is a beta after all, and given that Opposing fronts had that issue perhaps that explains what's going on? Cause there is a SERIOUS lack of sound fx quality and oomph. (I own both coh games and all the original dow game/expansions so I know by comparison what it could sound like)

I also agree that the maps are fairly bland, but I think that's more due to map design than inherit qualities with the game. They are going to release more maps with the full release game so we'll have to see.

[LTSearchEngine]

What do you mean, no 3D terrain?

Also, I am assuming (and hoping) that the Beta client is somewhat stripped down in terms of sound (and even graphics, maybe?). COH sound, iirc, sucked in the original beta, too, but it is now clearly one of the best games ever produced, sound-wise.

(Well, until recently, when the rifle squads are just f-ing constantly talking about "A colonel, one of ours..." over and over and over and over and over and over and... you get the idea.

Even then, some of the unit responses in the beta are great. I hit stop on a dread once, and it said "Stop! We have new orders incoming!"

I do really, really miss the big explosions of COH though. There is just nothing remotely comparable to a goliath or demo charge detonation.


I think I've figured out what I don't like about the maps: there is no sense or reason to them. It's not like in COH, where there is a small town, and then a farmhouse, and roads and fences and walls all where they should be:

Here there are objectives just sitting there with no reason, and tank traps and wire scattered around specifically to be cover. They're not there because they should be and can be used as cover, they're there because some cover needed to be there.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

i'z covered in eldar blood! it's all shiny!

try tankbusta mortar barrage
and plasma cannons
and D-Cannons
and yeah the final abilities
scored an awesome rok drop that killed off 6 squads and left the entire area around a VP churned and destroyed into yellow cover.

there are less 'splosions than COH but mostly it's that the game ends shortly after max-tech

it takes a few minutes to get units which can tear up the battlefield and they only have 10 minutes to work in

coh could last much longer

[D-coy]

I wish I could get into games like those. The last one I lost (I find that either my skills or the mekboy is lacking), was probably because of 2-3 ASM squads. Yay.

[Mabs]

using the thornback or whatever upgrade on the carnifex, that lets its charge is quite good aswell

set mine onto a scout squad, and he promptly went through a pile of crates, 2 trees and a 10 foot high wall en route to them

but as was mentioned, it does seem to be a lot of "collapse" and not much "bang"

not that thats a bad thing tho, will have to wait a while and see if it grows on me

[D-coy]

Also the new one liners give me the cringe sometimes. I've heard '...misbegotten kind...' from various units in many variations like 52 times just this one day.

[Thoragoros]

The one liners would be fine, but hearing them over and over again simply get boring, I think more audio will be in the full game.

@ Mabs,

Again, watching a dread walk through some walls or crates does not count as destruction. For instance, in CoH, even aside from the artillery, there were units such as mortars and tanks, heck, even the AT weapons could deal out some decent damage, such as knocking down the buildings of garrisoned infantry, or ripping up roads. But all of the technological and graphical advancemnets of CoH seem to have been utterly lost on this game, at least from the player's vantage point.

[stratigo]

I have this feeling that things seem to be stripped down. The maps seem toi be lacking buildings entirely, which is weird. I think that these maps are going to be buffed up as soon as the game comes out. Also it seems that some races are missing some of their abilities. The marines have like 6, but everyone else has 4, so I wouldn't be surprised if the other races got 2 more abilities per.

[Supernaut]

The maps lost buildings because not every race can utilize them (read Tyranids). Relic devs have stated this before.

However I noticed on the desert 1v1 map, there's quite a lot of buildings you can garrison.

[stratigo]

since when can't nids use buildings? Infact I'd think they'd be the army you want when assaulting a building. They go in and clear it out. Or have a fex walk through it.

[D-coy]

Yep, tyranid garrisoning is in bitches.

[Supernaut]

I was just repeating what a relic dev said haha, don't shoot the messenger.

[Rhedd]

But all of the technological and graphical advancemnets of CoH seem to have been utterly lost on this game, at least from the player's vantage point.

Amen!

I played my first multiple-player-on-a-side battle today, and instantly noticed yet ANOTHER thing missing from CoH.

In CoH, when your ally was off skirmishing over the next hill, you could hear the distant crack of rifle fire and the thunder of heavy weapons. I love the way you could hear your own artillery fire echo off of distant hills. It was a symphony!

In DoWII you hear... nothing? Anything that's on-screen is heard(sort of), and as you pan away, it just fades off.

DoWII has the sound technology of a ten-year-old game, instead of following the beautiful precedent set by CoH.

I rather like the way the game plays, but I'm shocked at what a technological step backwards it is from CoH, in all ways!

There's an unfortunate lack of terrain deformation, however. And there's no 3d terrain; everything seems to be on the same level.

What do you mean, no 3D terrain?

He means that everything is flat as a table with little ramps going from level to level. At its best it's like a decent DoW1 map, but they all suck in comparison to the realistic rolling hills and natural terrain of CoH. Don't tell me it's a sci-fi game, either. A hill is a hill. ^_^

I think I've figured out what I don't like about the maps: there is no sense or reason to them. It's not like in COH, where there is a small town, and then a farmhouse, and roads and fences and walls all where they should be:

Here there are objectives just sitting there with no reason, and tank traps and wire scattered around specifically to be cover. They're not there because they should be and can be used as cover, they're there because some cover needed to be there.

Again, AA-MEN! That, sadly was my biggest fear about DoWII, and I was right to worry.

Of course, the totally horrible new camera makes other problems pale in comparison, anyway.

[Mokino]

I'm actually wondering if some of the audio wasn't included for the sake of a smaller download. That would explain how little units actually speak.

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

I'm reserving judgement on sound- some of it's great, and some is diabolical if it's going to make it into the finished product. Being a multiplayer balance beta however, there's every chance that they've not included a good amount of high-quality sound, and the release version (or release version post patch 0) will sound the way it's meant to be.