Beta Reactions

[Bowkers]

A continuation of the old thread, seeing as that one was getting rather overgrown and intense.

So my opinion of the beta. Still love it and have now begun to have favourite maps and different tactics depending on that particular map. I have recently seen assault terminators in action, and they are now my favourite unit. They can not only jump into action, but their HP is insane and their melee is awesome.

I have yet to try the other races, I will do, seeing as I've now played 25 games with SM, so will experiment a lot more.

I know there's been another thread, but it will be useful to gauge how your opinions have changed, if they've even changed. So whether it be negative, positive, feel free to post. But don't rant, unless it's a constructive argument.

[steve-1945]

What I wonder is. A lot of people seem to have problems with the beta. I know not everyone does but it seems like the majority here and on other forums I visit dislike the game. So what I wonder is.

Does relic even care what we think?

The games comming out in what 2-3 weeks? You cant change the game now. Was John so confident that this game was going to blow our soxs off? Why release the beta now? It should have been released at least 4 months ago to get real feed back from a unbiased community. I mean there is only so much you can fix with patchs. You cant put in new units by patching can you? New buildings?

Ill buy DOW2 once thudd or someone makes a mod that makes the game playable.

[Mirage Knight]

You cant put in new units by patching can you? New buildings?

Yes you can

[Arkandea]

I don't think it's even possible to compare DoW 1 and 2. They function so drastically different, the only similarities being both based on Warhammer 40K and both RTS. Aside from that, DoW 2 reminds me more of Ground Control 2 then DoW.

I think DoW 2 is reasonably entertaining though the automatching quite bonked as there seems to be no way to face players of a similar level. Perhaps the "Trueskill" rating is what will be used to balance matches?

[PacketOverflow]

HOW TO PLAY DOW2 WRONG AND THINK IT SUCKS BECAUSE YOU ARE STUPID:

-look at your HQ. at all.
-box select multiple squads
-select more than one squad at a time
-bunch up your units
-use the attack-move command
-try to dance your units (exceptions are against avatar and walkers)
-retreat only when the squad is near death
-send your entire force to one point at a time
-have any units idling

the biggest complaint so far is that the game isn't defensive enough i.e. it plays like command point tag because squads can decap and cap pretty fast and you can't build LPs on the points anymore. DoW2 is an offensive game at heart. no base building, no sitting around for timing pushes. you engage the enemy at all times no exceptions. if you can't leave your base to even steal some points from under the enemy's nose, then you should consider gging right then and there.

that said there are some defensive heroes, but they are the exception, not the rule.

you have to play by ear and play fluidly. split up your army to harass, cap, and prevent enemy capping. only bring your army together when you need to deal with a serious threat or their capper happens to outpower whatever unit is on that part of the map. even then you'll almost NEVER bring all of your units together in one spot, not even in 3v3.

if you go into this thinking of
DoW1,
CoH,
Starcraft,
or any RTS where you right click and put your hand on your chin,
you will do VERY POORLY. DoW2 is DoW2. it can't be accurately compared to anything else.

...sorry I'm just getting real sick of a lot of people who play the game wrong then say the game sucks

[KPMaker]

The more I play the more I dislike.

The game can still be a lot of fun, but it’s a step backwards from CoH IMO.

It would of have blown my socks off if they included everything CoH had, and then added the wargear along with another special feature topping to what is the best RTS formula to date.

[Bowkers]

Ill buy DOW2 once thudd or someone makes a mod that makes the game playable.

Erm I think it is playable, it just depends on how you play it. I have to agree with PocketOverflow when he says DoW2 is it's own individual game. It is, and if your so used to other games, then maybe this isn't the game for you.

[PacketOverflow]

"The more I play the more I dislike.

The game can still be a lot of fun, but it’s a step backwards from CoH IMO.

It would of have blown my socks off if they included everything CoH had, and then added the wargear along with another special feature topping to what is the best RTS formula to date."

wrong. it's a step OFF of CoH, not forwards or backwards

[Tarneeto]

Does relic even care what we think?
Was John so confident that this game was going to blow our soxs off? Why release the beta now? It should have been released at least 4 months ago to get real feed back from a unbiased community.

StarCraft2 is the same as StarCraft1, except they added some units here and there plus pimped the graphics. In generell SC2=SC1.

Dawn of War:
Most people think they had "TrueSkill" in DoW1 and they only lose to enemies absuing imbas to win. in fair games they WIN-ONLY. after experiencing that every day over years they went to be dow1-cracks.
Now DoW2 is coming - its new, its different, its shit and after 10 games they know everything about the game, because they have learned "TrueSkill". their mind is cleared, they see what blatant mistakes Relic did with DoW2, so they bash DoW2 just because its not DoW1. their DoW1 "skill" is obsolete by now - a sad day in a progamers history...

XD

[KPMaker]

@ PacketOverflow,

I play the game right, win, and still do not like it.

Though it does not suck, and I can see why it appeals to a lot of people as being really fun. If this came out before CoH it would have been a step up from DoW for me personally, but that’s me.

It is an offensive game, you are right, but I myself and I’m sure others prefer a game that has the option to be both defensive & offensive (ala CoH.)

Finally, this game is spiritually influenced by CoH & DoW (more so by CoH), so one can accurately compare this game to CoH and come out with the right conclusion. Also, are you telling me you put your hand on your chin and won in CoH? If so, you must be on the top of the leader board, because that is one tough accomplishment bud.

P.S. I understand your frustration, but please do not insult SC players either, you are right in that this game is completely different (old school), but no way can you put your hand on your chin and win in that game either. Thank you.

[Supernaut]

In complete contrast to Steve the more I play the more I am enjoying it, 3v3 is just brilliant and great fun with friends - I can understand why they based the MP around it.

Played with most races, my favourite is still the Eldar and I'm just happy the Guardians aren't crap anymore.

I think one of the best things of the game is that non of the units (with the exception of TacMarines ha) become obsolete, everything works throughout the entirety of the game and that's a massive plus for me.

[KPMaker]

@ PacketOverflow,

“wrong. it's a step OFF of CoH, not forwards or backwards”


No you’re wrong, and honestly quite childish and insulting.

I said IMO, which means it’s my opinion. If you can prove to me opinions are wrong then please do so, but let's keep this logical and not emotionally charged please, thank you.

[SmellyTerror]

you engage the enemy at all times no exceptions.

Why, when I can just cap his points? That's what we're saying, sir.

-select more than one squad at a time
-use the attack-move command

I have standard units of: a Term and a Horm squad together on the A-move - Horms get into face, Terms stop at range and lay down the shooty shoot. Works great. I have Tyranid Warriors with a Ripper sawrm. A-move towards enemy, Rippers go first by default, can't be supressed, Warriors tear it all up. In both cases when the unit arrives at an undefended location, they can split up to cap points. Works nicely.

I wish the people telling people not to play it like other games followed their own advice. This is not CoH. :P

---
Anyway, I love it. My only gripes have threads made for them: too mobile due to a lack of focus, and some issue areound notifications.

But the gold:

Love the one building. So much easier for new folk to get to grips with, don't understnad in the slightest why people want to build more for the same effect.

Love the upgrades directly onto units. So much depth hidden right there. Yes, good that it's hidden - it doesn't terrify new folk, and we awesome gods of gaming can get our complexity kicks. :P

Commander choice with change to gameplay = win.

Individual unit AI (with the exception of some pathing issues) = win. Love that they move to the right side of their cover. Really makes the squads seem more alive.

Love that sides play so differently from each other, but in an intuitive way (generally). Units generally do what you expect them to. No CoH-style zomg flamethrowers kill those guys, but not those guys. At least not that I've noticed.

[PacketOverflow]

@KPMaker

based off CoH does not mean CoH2: Space!

I'm sorry if you feel insulted but frankly I think the game is being insulted more than it deserves.

no I'm not saying any of the three games above the chin comment were games where i did that, I'm sorry if the wording gave you that impression, I didn't spend much time typing it.

if you genuinely don't like it, fine. I'm not saying anyone HAS to like it. I'm only saying constantly comparing this game to other games isn't going to fix anything nor work towards making DoW2 a unique experience.

@SmellyTerror

capping his points IS being offensive. you're moving against his territory. people seem to want to take half their map then spend the rest of the time focusing on one area of central combat. the game is about map presence.

---

lastly I apologize to any SC players that browse. I hold SC in high regard to be honest.

[Lunar100]

Ehhh this game feels a lot like Panzer Elite style from CoH. No defensive buildings, hardly any gun emplacements and it takes constant micro to get your army to do anything. The thing was, I didn't like Panzer Elite from CoH for exactly that reason, having to baby everything at every moment.

There is no forward base I can fall back to, its either push forward or fall back to HQ. Personally I think it's a beautiful game but there just is something missing, something CoH had and this one doesn't. For every option from CoH they kept they took another one away. I dunno I was expecting Relic to keep a lot of the advancements from CoH and make some improvements on them but what they did was something totally different.

[streak]

you can build forward bases, btw.

[D-coy]

How exactly? I only know of transports and the brood nest, are there any other means?

[Old Painless]

There is no forward base I can fall back to

Unless you use the forward base abilities you must not have found yet ?

EDIT

Snipered, lol.

Techmarine can build a forward building. Orbital relay ?!?

[PacketOverflow]

are eldar webways foward bases or just teleporters?

[Servius]

I had a very long post in the last thread, but I'll mash that down a lot here and add some other observations. As before, I've only played as SMs, so it's possible these points don't apply to the other races.

1) DOW 2 isn't really a sequel to DOW 1, and it's not Warhammer 40,000 either. It seems like a reskinned CoH. It feels this way because there are things that go against WH40K fluff and/or TT rules, but match CoH rules, so it seems CoH is a bigger inspriration than the IP.

2) My gut tells me that a lot of the things I don't like in MP may play out much better in the SP campaign. I hope that's true. Too bad the beta didn't include the first campaign mission.

3) MP seems mostly about capping and decapping. It's more focused on locations than on fighting the enemy. The enemy are just an impediment to the capping. They're not the focus.

4) SMs are very few in number, very expensive to build, and very slow to move around. Partly because they're so few in number, you don't get sufficient visual warning before your force gets wiped out. Once the first guy dies, the other 2-3 will fall quickly thereafter.

5) MP is all about microing. Especially with SMs, there are so few squads, and each squad is so small, you really need to babysit them. You can't commit them to a task and take your eyes off them. They'll be gone before you know it.

6) Keep your force together. If you split your forces, they'll be easily outmaneuvered and wiped out. Keep them together to maximize your ability in any one place and guard against wipeouts. There's safety in numbers. It also makes babysitting them easier.

7) After capping/decapping (and maybe even more important that that), it's very important to completely wipe out enemy units. Don't just wound/weaken them, wipe them out. Do this because it costs your enemy more to replace a unit than to reinforce it, because the more you kill the harder you are to kill, and because weakened units can still cap/decap while obliterated ones can't.

[D-coy]

Again, I'll ask, since OP just missed my post it seems.

Are there any forward base abilities besides the Brood nest and Teleport Relays? If yes, which ones? Thanks in advance.

@ PacketOverflow

You can basically build one gate at your base, one on the field and have units travel through them lightning fast. So you can always go back to HQ to heal/reinforce, then pop up back on the battlefield shortly after.

[steve-1945]

Im sorry guys for not liking the game. I mean I guess its not reasonable to be upset at the sequel to my favorite rts game of all time "based on 40k which Iv played since 1st edition" to have some continuation from DOW1 and play sort of like it. I mean its quite obvious I dont know what Im talking about and I have no right to play RTS games because I suck at them.

Arnt sequels supposed to build on the original? Guess not I must be getting sequel mixed up with entirely different game based on the same setting.

[SmellyTerror]

capping his points IS being offensive. you're moving against his territory. people seem to want to take half their map then spend the rest of the time focusing on one area of central combat. the game is about map presence.

Ah, very true.

The no-turtle design philospophy for DoW and CoH has been, IMO, excellent.

[Jaerah]

crashes frequently and has major imbalance issues

that said, with the following fixes it could rival CoH as my favorite game of all time

nerf turret armor/hp
nerf spore armor
buff requisition intake on all levels of gameplay (more units, more strategy)
change xenophax(?) to arc based fire. for such a fragile unit and expensive LoS fire seems awkward and unintended.

[Bowkers]

crashes frequently and has major imbalance issues

that said, with the following fixes it could rival CoH as my favorite game of all time

nerf turret armor/hp
nerf spore armor
buff requisition intake on all levels of gameplay (more units, more strategy)

Remember guys, this is a beta, so crashes will inevitably happen.

But on the issue of requisition, I at the moment am finding that requisition is quite quick and fast in coming into my 'bank'. I have never experienced this problem of bad req. Also with regards to turrets, you know ASM can get behind them and do some damage?

[dreddnott]

Finished downloading this this morning, played a 1v1 with every race and one 3v3 so far.

I'm getting the hang of it, it does seem like there are hard counters. Battles are short and decisive. Most other players are rank noobs - my two teammates in the 3v3 never capped the victory points even when I warned them we were going to lose.

[PacketOverflow]

I think requisition is fine, but power should be scaled up a bit. even holding all the power nodes on the map with all gens built, my requisition often far outfloats my power.

[Logic_Bomb]

Reactions so far - playing on Vista 32 OS - had to tune down graphics like Relic recommended due to bug with DOW2 and this OS just to get a decent framerate. Gameplay - teching, as many mentioned, is very fast - too fast I think - this part of it - the whole "RTS-lite, game over in 15 min." I don't like. Maps also feel a little too cramped and small. But the novelty of it is growing on me - that's part of the fun of a new game - figuring out how it all works and fits together. Has anyone else noticed that the Banshees war cry doesn't seem to make a sound? Same with the ping map button.
Love some of the little things you can build in the field - Guardian's shields, tarantula turret and relay/uplink by Techmarine, etc.
3v3 seems like the most fun - I think Relic did a great job making the three commanders complement each other - reminds me of the teamwork in Team Fortress 2 - like for Space Marines - the tank (FC), the healer, the turret builder/engineer role - LOTS of tactical potential and depth for 3v3 - looking forward to how it will get tweaked and expanded as the metagame develops...

[GR00V3R]

Devastator squads should be five-man units and more expensive in Req as a result. They also need more weapon options, and more weapons--they should be able to field two (or even three or four) heavy weapons, but be veeery expensive in Req if you go that way. Sergeants should be add-able, but should be an upgrade for an existing team member, so the squad remains a five-man unit.

Tactical squads should be five-man units, and more expensive in Req as a result.

Tactical squads should be able to stand back with their missile launcher. At the moment, targeting an enemy unit causes the Tacs to move in close with the launcher...STOOPID! :S

I also agree that teching is too fast.

[Kirjava]

I was getting worried what with all the negativity that was flowing around, but having played it myself, I'm very affectionate towards it, as my gushing praise in the other reaction thread might already've indicated. 3v3 is definitely where it shines, but I do think Relic could improve an already great experience just by adding further customisation. Make the 3v3 the main game mode online, but also put the option in for people to make more custom games types.

Req income could be faster, I think. In a closely-fought match that's nearing the endgame, I've not found power to be a problem, but requisition flows like sheet metal (ie it doesn't). The main ramification of this is that it takes the fun out of the game for a while- if you lose a lot of guys, you're probably still safe retreating what's left back to your base but it takes so long to get the req together to pump out another Dreadnought that you're left just sitting and waiting.

I'm also pleased by the potential this game has to grow. It seems like it could be really easy to insert extra stuff. I hope Relic builds on the goodwill it's got (from me, at least) and really makes the most of the possibility of DLC.

[Ratfunk]

Well, I've played about another 20 games online, and my earlier feelings are the same.

I keep reading "The more I play the game, the more I like it" and that may be true. It has certanatly been elevated in my eyes as well, but only because I am trying to forget DoW and CoH exist.

The main thing is that I CAN NOT see see anywhere where this game adds more to the genre. Wargear has been put into RTS before and it didn't really work their either.

What little features exist from the other 2 series seem to be gutted. Lvling squads doesn't allow you to choose an upgrade, which really seems like it should be in the game. Vehicles seem clunky and die to easy, don't provide cover after they die, ect.

I mean, what describes this game the most? Absolutly no 4v4... I could care less the game was "Balanced" around 3v3, why take out 4v4 and 2v2? Still don't understand why 1v1 is in there when the others were cut out...

This game is based soley around the Victory Point game, Anihilate is in, but really poorly executed with no bases. I HATE VICTORY POINT GAMES. If their is a game type that completly counters the whole "Constant Fighting" thing that Relic was trying to achieve, it's this. All it means is that each side takes the counter nearest them and holds it, while they attack the only real contested point, but don't bother to push forward, they just build a defence and sit there. There is no reason to keep up the presure.

Unless of course you do "Point Swap" game. real annoying when their is no clear battle lines drawn. The whole strategy aspect just kind of falls apart and becomes a zerg. Early in the game, there is small units out flanking HB and Platforms, but later in the game, it seems to be completly gone.

Overall, I would give this game some pretty high marks, it does some thing right. But mostly, all I see it wasted potential. I think the majority of use were thinking the game would be more like CoH and DoW had a child... but instead... we got this bastardised version of Warcraft3 with some CoH elements thrown in and a lot of things taken out...

[Eigon The Clean]

Atm it feels to me that Eldar are the most imba.
In 1v1 its just rush the furthest VP and then Shuriken spamm till Victory.
In 3v3 you can pretty much hold off 2players alone with your Weapon platforms aslong as you set them up properly.

I do like the game, alot, but to me it feels too "unfinished" something is definately missing, I just can't put my finger on it.. but its a beta,
my guess is that the final version will feel much more polished than this, atleast I hope so.

Couple of down notes right now:
1. Cover gets blown away too fast, atleast in the longer lasting 3v3 games towards the ends there seem to be no cover left anywhere,
mostly due to some walker units just walking through anything.

2. more persisten scarring, and corpses/destroyed vehicles left on the map.
Being able to take cover behind a destroyed Predator tank would solve the first problem with cover aswell.
(Hopefully this will be added at some point, but I guess there is alot of people with machines out there that wont be able to handle all that tho)

3. Req. Reaching the PoP cap is quite easy (atleast in most of the games Ive played).
But still after I have reached pop cap I still feel that I am Req starved, Power never seem to be a problem tho, Perhaps some sort of trade system?
but I guess that would add some balance issues.

4. One "Strategy" I have used as Eldar is, have your Commander die in some good strategic position,
and when your enemy have moved his frontline up you can just spawn a Webwaygate on your incapacitated Commander
(due to him still lighting up a small area on the map) and then just teleport your whole army in behind enemy lines.
Imo, I think this is abit too imba, just changing the webwaygates required sight area would help here,
as its somewhat hard to get it right as the commander doesnt light up that much FoW.

On the last note...
This is not Dawn of War as we know it, this is a completely new game, its not Company of Heroes either, we must remember that.
If you start DoW2, and got it in your mind that this is DoW1 in a new package, then you are going to be let down.
That said, this feels really Beta-ish, (rightfully so) but with it being so close to release, and the fact that its allready been Gold for a while makes me think that this might be it...
Allthough, with some Tweaks here and there I think that DoW2 will be a new Stepstone in the RTS-genre.
Just waiting for my copy of the Full game to arrive
Now, Back to the Beta for some more Eldar Ownage! :P

[neucromaner]

why i need to build up so much zeal point to get terminators???

is this fair.

[MasterOfMankind]

Neucromaner (Did you mean to call yourself Necromancer?)

Its because the Terminators can absolutely slaughter everything. That is why they are so expensive.

Did that answer your question? (I hope I don't need to elaborate.)

[Skullcap]

I've done some more playing of the beta and some rank battles, and my god I take back what I said about the apoc being squishy. Put on apoc armour, the blade of sang and his regen energy and health pack and he butchers through people. Place him with two space marine squads and he slaughters and heals them and can drop heals to...get 900 zeal and laugh manically as you drop terminator squad in and butcher people..

Terminators are that expensive since A. they slaughter everthing B. they have the same armour as the dreadnought(can't be healed by apoc). C. Force commander + assault terminators + normal terminators = dead enemy.

Requisition income is still abit low, but I'm holding out on complaining about that to I see no option whatsoever in multiplayer to adjust it to low/med/high, which atm feels like its set to default at low income rate.

You really have to play a few games and then get used to the way it is, going in with a attitude that its going to be CoH in space and its going to be DoW is going to get you no where.

There is a incredible amount of tactics which can be employed and I keep finding new ones with the unit combos as I go along, it just takes alil time to understand and learn which is good to have with what. E.g. 2 heavy bolter dev groups with overlapping fields of fire + 2 tac squads and apoc really own. You support and keep the tact squads in cover and they can really slaughter things.

All the races have there unique way of playing and it just takes time to learn them. I think playing against the AI is a bad way to see what the games like in its true form as theAI has a trigger happy finger for vehicle manslaughter. I suggest trying all races and all commanders to you find one you like.

[Steel*Faith]

Almost everyone complaining and being negative about DoW II now ,were doing so before the game was even out yet. So it hard for me to respect some peoples opinions when they've been negative from the get go. Constructive criticism is one thing, saying the game fails before it even starts is another.

All the races have there unique way of playing and it just takes time to learn them. I think playing against the AI is a bad way to see what the games like in its true form as theAI has a trigger happy finger for vehicle manslaughter.

playing against the AI is not enjoyable for me, and this is coming from a player that only plays the AI in all RTS games. I actually really enjoy MP, it was designed really well for fun team play.

[HotAvatar101]

terminators are absolute pwnage. with a lil support, these guys are impossible to kill. well almost.

neways, personally i like the game (hated it at first but it tends to grow on you once u start moving away from DoW1), but im not sure if its more fun than the original. Its still beta, so who knows, maybe the day 0 patch can help fix some of the outstanding issues that have been mentioned a lot.

@ bowkers
I also agree on the turret thing a bit, if its slightly cheaper and slightly less durable, i think it'll be better. To say that you can jump behind it or flank it usually isn't a viable option b/c lets face it, a good player behind the turret has other units and ull be jumping to your death. though personally i only had the turret problem in my first games, now i usually dont let the enemy set it up as it requires quite a bit of resources so he's taking a risk for a while as well and leaving himself quite open.

[matariel]

I agree completely with paladin, this game is very fun and far too addictive. It's getting to the point where I need to think to myself 'don't log on, you've got way too much work to do, if you click that icon you will destroy your entire night'

[Croaxleigh]

Ok, so I finally got my new video card in today... and though I'm waiting on my new processor still, the vid card at least was enough to log in and play a quick skirmish. Naturally, I went straight to SM-Techmarine because that's what I've been planning to do from the start. Rumor has it there are some other races in the game, and I might even get around to playing with them eventually... but for now, here's my first impression after a short gave vs. the computer.

I was initially a little bit worried that I wasn't going to like the game... I'm not much of a gamer, to be honest, and I always get pensive when trying out a new game (especially if it's a sequel to a game that I enjoy.) Based on my one quick match, I can say that I'm honestly very glad that I preordered the game a day or two ago. It's definitely a different game from Dawn of War, which isn't a bad thing in my opinion; if it was a prettier version of the original DoW I think I would have been a bit disappointed. I'm looking forward to getting some more play in on the beta in the coming weeks, as it'll help me to pass the time until release when I can start on the campaign. *smiles*

In short and based on my admittedly limited experience thus far, Dawn of War II gets the Croaxleigh Seal of Approval.

[Cortlendt]

I finally managed to download it and here iz my reactionz.

First and foremost. It is not DoW 1 with new graphics, its a whole new game. If you want moar of the same, I can point into general direction of Starcraft 2 and Red Alert 3.

First impression: Art style changed immensely, real-scale, no minature styling of models, different zoom. I find it beautiful and "realistic", since weapon ranges are much larger now and some units (tanks) are HUGE (and thats how it should be), but some may disagree. Some animations are great - Wraithlord in general, shotgun slugs bouncing off space marine armor, assault canon dismemberment, kommando, being knocked down with legs over the head. Some are not though.

Second impression: Sound is kinda bugged. I hope this is fixed (it was promised by Mac Bug). No battle chatter (was too big to incude in beta?). Announcer VA is meh (for space marines and nids atleast). Plasma canon does a nice sound, I must say.

Third impression: Why or why, dear Relic, you decided to dumb down excellent resource/map system of CoH? Maps are flat and uninspired. Small, cramped, almost no buildings, points are like 10ft from each other. No territory control, no fights for the highest income points. Bring it back? It is modified engine of CoH, it is not so hard? Please? Pretty please?

Fourth impression: Combat iz FAST and more tactical. Units can be insta-gibbed at any moment. I approve of this change. No more train of chasing enemy army all over the map just to swap roles and become the chased. Great job relic, since melee units now function 10x better. General scale of a combat is smaller, fewer units, I do not care about epicness, it goes well with me.

Fifth impression. Environment is not destructive enough. Predators, tank bustas and more units in general must be able to make craters (and cover). Trees don't fall, just explode in puff of leaves, seems like a placeholder animation to me. Vehicles don't leave husks (and cover). Bodies must stay for some time.

Sixth impression. UI is great but, squad icons are too small. Make CoH like icons. Heroes, like Big Mek can be bigger since it's hard to tell him from the first look in the bunch of boyz and it hurts gameplay. Where did the cover icon that appeared on the squad in cover go? Where did the vet stripes go? We can have some visual cues please? Otherwise, UI is great and unobtrusive.

Seventh and the last. Vehicles are dumbed down. Why no damage on them? TT has it, CoH has it. Whats wrong with immobilizing a tank?

Summing it all up. Game is immensely fun but it seems a little rushed to me. Some placeholders in animations and a feature-cut is obvious. The only problem I have with it - resource system sucks. Fix it and it will be best RTS in the market now.

PPS. Fix rippers animation please, it is retarded.

[craNk]

Almost everyone complaining and being negative about DoW II now ,were doing so before the game was even out yet. So it hard for me to respect some peoples opinions when they've been negative from the get go. Constructive criticism is one thing, saying the game fails before it even starts is another.

That argument works in both ways...

The biggest part of the before Beta *Yay-sayers* are still saying *Yay" and throw words around like Tactial/Strategic whteout bringing any of examples of truly strategic/Tactical gameplay.

[Mac_Bug]

I checked, there be no bugz with sound, that is to say it appears to be sounding as designer intended. Depending on feedback there may or may not be changes, I'm getting out of the business of making promises for other people

[Vertrucio]

I like the game as it is, VP mode is incredible fun and is paced very well.

That said, however, I would be interested in another game type separate from VP control and simple annihilation that adds more aspects to the game, perhaps with specific maps for it. But I wouldn't want the excellent VP control mode to be burdened by extra padding.

For example, you could have some kind of mode called Dominance or Territory where you can cap requisition points, or a new type of Build Point, like the Power points, then build one special building on it (but no defenses!). These buildings provide an extra layer of abilities, bonuses, requisition, a special resource (Faith, Zeal, Souls, etc...) or special unit types at the HQ.

These buildings are out in the field, vulnerable to attack and must be defended. Eventually culminating in the destruction of the HQ. But it's a nice middle way for those looking for a more DoW1 experience, but with the more dynamic flow and tactics of DoW2.

However, leave the basic VP mode alone, I rather like it.

[Pathen]

Comparing this game to CoH is a bad idea. If you love CoH, play it. This isn't CoH. I think that a lot of people here are putting CoH on a pedistal because they are familiar with it- and with RTS games- but are blind to the flaws that CoH had.

DoW2 shares an engine with CoH. It borrows concepts of supressive fire, cover, and directional damage on vehicles. Real life has also been known to borrow these concepts. Clearly, real Life is merely a reskinned CoH. =P

I think that DoW2 is designed to be a more intense, skill-driven experience that is easier to learn than your typical RTS game, but just as challenging to master. The fights feel concentrated, personal, and organic. The game has many balance issues that limit playstyles, static cameras, and an unreasonable love for deployable weaponry--
but it is in its infancy, and it has potential. Most importantly: It's not CoH. And this gives me hope.

[Mac_Bug]

I am not responding as a developer or anything, these are just my personal observations as a RTS gamer:

1. A lot of people don't like the VP game. I realize take and hold victory games were also in DoW1 (but as I recall that involved holding the point for certain amount of time and is subject to reset, where as with VP games you never get your ticks back), but there are a lot of coh players who favors annihilate instead - which dow2 does support though it runs somewhat counter to how things are meant to work due to the uber HQ and the fact that teams simply start next to each other. There is no random starting location advantages to speak of, no "choke point" to cut off enemy team from each other, and certainly no need to balance the spawning pool cost to prevent zergling rushes, so to speak. In fact as someone who has played probably a thousand games of 3v3 BGH no lagg!!!!11, if you're playing dow2 on annihilate you're pretty much playing the wrong game.

2. One of the down side of having 3v3 games with victory points is that sometimes it can end up encouraging solo engagements where each player is responsible for their corresponding sector of the map. Again I'm going to invoke my SC fanboism here and talk about 3v3 on BGH, as I mentioned before, because of the way the maps are currently designed with the players spawning next to each other and virtually indestructible bases, it doesn't exactly encourage players to congregate their units and gang up on any particular enemy, so you're likely to see even less epic battles happening until much later in game where either one team is dominating and goes on the offense (where the enemy base conveniently congregates in one place) or when the losing team engineers a come back where they concentrate on cracking your VPs one at a time.

2. I find it curious to see a lot of people complaining about how the game ends up like a game of tag with capping and decapping, considering that in a 3v3 VP game this is almost never an issue worth noting since your power nodes can be secured and one resource point seems hardly worth fighting over with the VPs right next door, and unlike CoH there is no value in capping a particular point given the lack of connected territory concept. Yeah they might decap this point or that, but usually when that happens I just yawn and attack move my unit across the map as by then we have 400 points versus their 50.

3. A lot of people like high resource games. Again, the quick start type is currently not an option, I think adding this would help many people along.

4. A lot of people seems to be playing versus the CPU. If you played versus CoH CPU at all you'd know that the AI is a capping god and a spammer. IMO skirmishes are not really the key to judge how the game is played in general, unless you intend to do vs cpu all the time. I've noticed some people complaining about how they can play this game with one hand, yada yada, but could you really do that when you play against real players?

5. a lot of people seem to be playing 1v1s and using that to compare to other RTSes. I think what they're really doing is missing all the fun of playing the game by not doing 3v3. A lot of the fun comes from the synergy of working with teammates, especially now that the game comes with built in voice communication. I do realize that the minimap pings could do a little better, my personal opinion is that the coh pings were perfect in every way...

[drcole]

Crank is absolutely right, Paladin. The fanboys are in most cases spouting the same unqualified praise they were before the beta, so it works both ways.
I have noticed however that a good number of people who were talking up the game pre-beta have come back with decidedly more muted post-beta reactions..

Anyway I've decided I'll be signing up once the beta opens up now. I was intending to just buy the game on release, because DoW1 is unreservedly my favourite game of all time. Unfortunately DoW2 does appear to be a totally different beast from the "DoW1 sequel with the best innovations for CoH" that I was hoping it would be. I'm really hoping that the VODs and reactions I've been reading and watching are totally steering my in the wrong direction, because at the moment I don't think I will enjoy the game anywhere near as much as the original.

[Pathen]

Mac-

I find it hard to believe that VP is comparably unpopular. I really feel that the game only truly shines playing VP- since it's a much more elegant tug-of-war than traditional "take-and-hold" gameplay.

People playing 'high resource' games are easily explained as many, many people get into the game all at once. Everyone wants to test out the units and familiarize themselves before playing real games (for lack of any tutorial), and this is a quick way to do so.

Since I've started playing I have mostly been playing ranked VP games with my friends online, and I have noticed that most of the time we each take our own personal sectors of the map.. but I am also starting to notice, now that we are getting up in rank- that our armies have to be a lot more fluid than that.

We can do decently well if everyone sticks to their own 'third'- but our strength as a team doubles when we communicate and allow our lines to flow together. My completely uninformed prediction is that when people are no longer all playing to 'get the hang' of the game we'll see a lot more crossover territories.

Before we'll see real teamwork, though, mic settings will need to be addressed... I just mute everyone on principle, since there are no push-to-talk buttons and no way to adjust your microphone output so that other people can hear you. Right now I'm more likely to hear ungodly noises and garbled clicks than actual communication.

[GRLSOV]

I checked, there be no bugz with sound, that is to say it appears to be sounding as designer intended.

Many times the units don't speak when selected or when ordered to go somewhere (and that's with 128 voices).

And there are less sounds at the same time I think... While in DoW 1 (ok, it's not DoW 1, but hear me out please), you could hear every ork thump when capturing a point or every slash and chainswords sounded the whole time.
Maybe my ears don't work that well, but it does sound somewhat "quieter" (as in less simultaneous sounds?).

[drcole]

Mac Bug:

The feedback seems to be that 1v1 is where the tag-factor is most prominent. It's all well and good to say "I think what they're really doing is missing all the fun of playing the game by not doing 3v3" but a lot of players enjoy 1v1 as their favoured play mode and probably feel left out in the cold right now by DoW2. It seems REALLY evident that 3v3 was the focus and not everyone wants to play team games all the time.

[Mac_Bug]

GRLSOV: What you're referring to is not a problem with the number of voices, rather it's a conscious decision about the sound mix as well as speech timers. The unit responses were specifically tuned to not talk as often, for example, selection speech only happens once every 8 seconds for a given squad, etc, but again, that was a conscious choice by the speech guy who also handled coh.

drcole: I don't play 1v1 at all so I don't really know, there are certainly room for improvement but I'm not really sure how to reconcile the differences between the two types. That's where you guys come in I suppose.

As for high resources, I think many casual players actually prefer high resource quickstarts on annihilate in coh and possibly dow. This is why I think one of the chief complaints can be addressed at least in public games by simply throwing more requisition points so players can crank out a (relatively) massive army early and keep them up so they can have visual orgasms possibly at the expense of balance.