Minor Balance tweaks mod suggestions

[corncobman]

Right, I'm thinking of making a balance tweak mod with minor balance changes for Soulstorm.

So do you think this mod is needed?

If so, you can suggest balance fixes in this thread. Giving reasons for balance changes would be ideal.

I will be updating this post with suggestions that have a consensus and that have common sense.

Download Soulstorm version 1.2 here or here

Download Dark Crusade version 1.1 here or here


Eldar:

Dark Reaper health reduce by 50
Fire Dragon mass reduce from 90 to 45, 50 for exarch
Avatar pop bonuses remove, make Avatar buildable even with full pop
Bonesinger cost increase from 45 to 70, teleport distance reduce
Ranger Infiltration requires Soul Shrine
Warp Spider health reduce significantly from 615 to 415 and delay for teleport increase, Enhanced Reinforced Armour research upgrades armour to heavy high
Nightwing increase damage to infantry
Fire Prism cap cost decrease from 5 to 4, health decrease from 5285 to 4285
Webway Gate no longer counts in Annihilation
Harlequin Kiss splash damage reduce from 200 to 150
Fleet of Foot change to timed ability, duration 8 seconds, recharge time 45 seconds
Dark Reapers, Rangers and Fire Dragons Fleet of Foot changes speed to 20 instead of 24 (from 16)

Space Marines:

Sergeants build time reduce from 30 seconds to 20 seconds
Skull Probe infiltration research remove, make Skull Probe infiltrate automatically
Smite recharge time increase by 20 seconds
Plasma Gun damage increase
Predator cap cost decreased from 5 to 4
Terminator Flamer max damage increase from 32 to 35, min damage increase from 5 to 20

Orks:

Looted Tank cap cost decreased from 5 to 4
Nob Squad leader made separate from the Slugga/Shoota Nob Leader, damage improved, mass increased.
Squiggoth Big Shoota FOTM penalty reduced from 0.35 to 0.25 (25% FOTM accuracy)
Squiggoth Zzzap Gun FOTM penalty reduced from 0.6 to 0.4 (35% FOTM accuracy)

Imperial Guard:

Leman Russ cap cost decreased from 5 to 4
Assassin infiltrate automatically, remove research
Tweak Assassin accuracy and damage
Reduce Guardsmen Plasma Gun damage slightly
Guardsmen Plasma Gun damage decrease from 34/54 to 28/48
Assassin accuracy increase from 80% to 100%, damage decrease from 1100/1400 to 860/1060
Marauder bomb abilities recharge reduce by 1/2 effectiveness reduce by 1/2

Necrons:

Monolith cost reduce slightly perhaps maybe to something like 400 for the second and 800 for the third.
Tomb Spyder Scarabs make able to attack ground units
Warrior per member time multiplier remove
Get-back up squad radius increase from 20 to 30
Forbidden Archive artifact build time incease from 0 to 5 seconds each
Tomb Spyder range weapon accuracy / damage increase
Solar Pulse reduces weapon accuracy by 1/2 instead of disabling shooting

Dark Eldar:

Warrior range increase by 3
Dais of Destruction cap cost reduce from 6 to 4
Souls on death last longer
Souls from Slave Chamber take longer to build
Screams of the Damned soul cost increase from 60 to 80
Piercing Vision soul cost decrease from 40 to 25
Gruesome display addon detect infiltrated units
Raider cap cost reduce from 3 to 2
Reaver Jetbike reduce damage to commanders
Raven increase damage to infantry
Raven require Tier 2, Short Circuit ability require Tier 3
Hellion health reduced from 550 to 500

Tau:

Increase Greater Knarloc speed and turn rate slightly
Barracuda weapons damage spread out more evenly, total damage reduce slightly
Fire Warrior leader cap to 1 each
Fire Warrior Shas'ui Bodyguard give Photon grenades
Hammerhead cap cost increased from 3 to 4
Krootox cap cost increased from 3 to 4
Greater Knarloc cap cost decreased from 5 to 4
Improved Metallurgy requires Shrine of Montka instead of Kauyon

Chaos:

Decrease Hell Talon health by 500
Cultist Grenade Launcher set up time
Chaos Marine Infiltration move to tier 4
Plasma Gun damage decrease
Bloodthirster regenerates health in combat instead of only in melee
Bloodthirster damage to buildings reduced significantly

Sisters of Battle:

Servitor Sabotage require tier 2
Immolator build time reduce from 55 to 35 seconds
Lightning Fighter increase damage to heavy infantry

[Arkandea]

Not to derail or anything, but isn't that what DoWPro is meant for?

[corncobman]

No, DoWPro is more of a complete overhaul of the way DoW works. What I have in mind is a bunch of minor tweaks that bring each race more in line with each other.

[Arkandea]

Ohh like a fanpatch! Well off the top of my head I reckon lowering Dark reaper HP is a must (too durable as they are) and a reduction of Hell Talon's HP as well.

Reaper gets a 100 hp nerf, from 450 to 350

Talon gets a 900 hp nerf, from 3000 to 2100

Exact values open for debate

[corncobman]

Ok thanks for getting the ball rolling.

Eldar:

Avatar pop bonuses removed.

Necrons:

Monolith cost reduced slightly perhaps maybe to something like 400 for the second and 800 for the third.

Space Marines:

Sergeants build time reduced from 30 seconds to 20 seconds

up for discussion of course.

[PandaMine]

Just go through the variance balance suggestions and implement what is sensible too you

Its a bit late now though, A lot of people have apparently stopped playing SS (Including myself, I don't really play it anymore)

[corncobman]

Oh I know it's a little late, I'm just doing it for the fun of it.

[Buguba]

Pick through the balance threads and just read what people say. Usually, there are one or two awesome ideas that people come up with. Just make sure that you know exactly how a unit fits into an army though; you don't meddle with things you aren't 100% sure about.

[Corsair1]

Well how about making fire dragons weigh less so they can actually be knocked over, or stop them from having FoF. Keep there range and damge though.

[Derogator]

How about taking out the squad cost of all the Relic units.

Well how about making fire dragons weigh less so they can actually be knocked over, or stop them from having FoF. Keep there range and damge though.

Giving Fire Dragons Infantry_Heavy_Medium armor is preferable, I'd say.

[Corsair1]

Ehh i still think a mono should be able to move them.

[Arkandea]

Well how about making fire dragons weigh less so they can actually be knocked over

You realize that's by deliberate design? Fragons may require a nerf, but getting knocked on their bums everytime they try to kill a vehicle isn't it.

One might bring up Celestians in this, but that's for another thread.

[Corsair1]

yeah they are meant to resist knockdown but there should be a limit i mean a mono or a baneblade cant move these things.

Edit:I also said somethiong about removed FoF or reduce the weight. If the weight thing is too much leave it. I dont know much about the fluff but i dont think they are meant to have FoF.

[corncobman]

Personally I think the fact that the Fire Dragon effectively weighs more than the Squiggoth is a bit ludicrous.

[Arkandea]

The explanation is "grav stabilisers".

yeah they are meant to resist knockdown but there should be a limit i mean a mono or a baneblade cant move these things.

Totally with you mate, but if they could be knocked over by those units then they'd be effectively worthless against them wouldn't they? A nerf for cosmetic appeal would detract from in-game usefulness.

[phoenixzs]

Dark eldar warrior range increase should be thought carefully.There are already a lot of Warrior builds.Since DE are a bit faster then the races that could be a problem.

And RJB could get a bit nerf too.For example dealing awfull damage to commander armor.

Celestias should benefit from the range increase in tier 3 a bit by the way.

Necron tomb spiders should get a benefit for upgrading their weapons

And please decrease that eldar Warp spider cap to 2.I cant believe relic nerfed the karskin grenade and didnt touch to warp spiders.There should be a realy good placed eldar fun boy in the company.

[corncobman]

You mean Celestians normal bolter weapons or the melta weapons?

@Lord_Akaliba

The explanation is irrelevant.

[edbop]

why not just call it the nerf eldar mod. at least you'd be being honest then.

[corncobman]

There just has to be one doesn't there.

Try posting something constructive instead of not so witty one-liners.

[phoenixzs]

You mean Celestians normal bolter weapons or the melta weapons?

@Lord_Akaliba

The explanation is irrelevant.

I meant the meltas actually sorry for the missunderstanding

And does anybody think Eldar SHOULDN`T be nerfed?

[corncobman]

Hmmm, not sure that the Celestian meltas need changing.


I might also make a Dark Crusade version for a laugh.

[Corsair1]

I hate to say theres only been one change suggested for eldar so fair, harldy a nerf eldar mod. Well only one got accepted anyway.

Another thing you could decrease immolater build time, they seem to take ages for an average and quite expensive tank

Edit:my bad i didnt notice you updated the list

[phoenixzs]

If you are going to require servitor sabotage tier 2 then the damage of it should be also increased.I personally think it should require armory or barracks rather then tier 2 since its a early game tactic to sabotage buildings nobody would bother with it if it was tier 2.

Cheers for the nightwing damage increase aganist infantry.
Lighting fighter could also use one of those damage increases(I think it would be fair to increase it aganist Heavy infantry since its already some kind of autocannon).Otherwise its costing too much in terms of energy what its doing.

i am not quite sure about cultist setup time.It was the thing of theirs and with last patch nerf they are not overpowered anymore.

[corncobman]

The Immolator build time is already in the list.

I just don't like the fact that the SoB player can spam servitors, and then pop a barracks very early in the game.

Lightning Fighter probably could do with a slight damage increase.

I think that Cultist grenades are a bit too cost effective. I was thinking of a setup time of 0.5 seconds or 1 second at the most.

[Maktaka]

Lightning Fighter probably could do with a slight damage increase.

Really? I've always found them quite effective in their role of AI support and air superiority, especially with their fantastic FotM accuracy.

[corncobman]

I'll only increase the damage to heavy infantry slightly for the time being.

[Derogator]

Warp Spider health reduce significantly from 615 to 415 and delay for teleport increase

200 less HP, eh. Do they get it back with Reinforced Armor upgrades? If not then perhaps an actual armor upgrade to Infantry Heavy High with Enhanced Reinforced Armor should be applied. Raise squad cost to 3 to compensate. Maybe even cap them at 2.

Since Avatar bonuses are out, then perhaps the Fire Prism's squad cost should be 4 instead of 5. While we at it, the squad cost of the Pradator, Looted Tank and Leman Russ should be 4 as well. I mean, it doesn't make sense that a Land Raider, Squiggoth and Baneblade is almost half the squad cost.

EDIT: Almost forgot, the Nobz Squad's Nob Leader is actually somewhat inferior to a Nob. They need a separate Nob Leader just for them that is actually superior.

[corncobman]

Good point, Heavy Medium to Heavy High with the second armour research. Done.

I'll try it without increasing cap cost for now and see how it goes.

Tank cap costs added.

In what way are Nob Squad leaders inferior?


Version 1.0 released

Download it here or here

[Arkandea]

@Lord_Akaliba

The explanation is irrelevant.

I'm missing how an unit designed for anti-vehicle duties will never be able to fire a shot off at said vehicles is considered an invalid argument.

Ubers are meant to be awesome big units, not Uber in every sense of the word! I'd still like Fragons to function against their targets, thank you

[Derogator]

In what way are Nob Squad leaders inferior?

Well, the Nob Leader has half the mass of a Nobz Squad unit, and 50HP less too (with upgrades). The Nob Leader's Power Claw is also actually weaker than the Nobz Squad's own. See for yourself and compare the stats here and here.

Nob Leader's do have a better ranged weapon though. That's about it. Their morale bonuses are pretty irrelevant.

To fix this, the Nob Leader for the Nobz Squad need to have at least equal mass, slightly more HP, and a Power Claw a little stronger than the Nobz Squad's own to make them a true leader.

[corncobman]

Nob Squad leader added.

@Lord_Akaliba

Eldar have a number of vehicle counters, Brightlance Grav Platforms help a lot, Wraithlord with Brightlance upgraded, Warp Spiders with Haywire Grenades.

Fire Dragons still have Fleet of Foot, their high health and the same armour class as Terminators.

[Derogator]

Fire Warrior Team's leaders should be capped at 1 for each leader, so you can have a Shas'Ui and a Shield Drone, but not 2 of each.

Also the Shas'Ui Bodyguard doesn't have Photon Grenades, so perhaps add it to them since all other Shas'Ui has them.

[phoenixzs]

I downloaded the mod and it's very good actually.If the relic decided for a balance patch like this I would have no objections I think.

But the real problem is I think necrons/eldars in this balance patch.If they are good and in line with other races the other race adjustments can be kept minimal.

[Geno]

Although this is going by what's written, I like the changes to DE and Tau. I'm not so sure about having the attack scarabs attack ground units as well, since the animation would make it look awkward and they'd be a bit too useful given they can fly. With regards to the DE Warrior range increase, is it out-of-the-box or after the soulseeker upgrade? Personally, DE Warriors are plenty strong early on in the game without the need for a range increase.

[corncobman]

It's out of the box.

[Corsair1]

With the eldar ava pop bonus, if its remeoved does the Ava still cost 5 inf cap?

[corncobman]

Yes it does at the moment.

[Corsair1]

Isnt 5 inf cap a bit much if it no longer gives bonuses.

[corncobman]

It still makes nearby infantry morale immune and doubles production rate of the Aspect Portals, Webway Gates and Webway Assemblies.

Still a fair number of bonuses. As well as being a very stong combat unit in itself.

[Derogator]

How about making the Avatar like the Bloodthirster in having 5 squad cost but can go over the limit. (25/20)


Anyways, I got one for the Vindicare Assassin, I always thought he should come out infiltrated already.

[corncobman]

Hmmmm, that could be doable.

Re the Assassin, yeah that's a good suggestion and one I was thinking of doing.

[bman3k]

Make Terminator Heavy Flamers do more damage

[Corsair1]

Yeah theres no point in getting them at the moment,

[corncobman]

Added to the list, max damage increase from 32 to 35, min damage increase from 5 to 20

[_McGr3g_]

as much as i admire your effort in making balance mod, i would say ~50% of this changes are not questionable at its best. remaining ones are highly debatable(nonconsistent change to t3/4 tanks vehcap, i.e. not touching tau ones?), and few of them are just stupid(buffing one of the strongest t3, that has one of the best ecos i.e. ig?).
gave just 2 examples that i remember after reading, but there are moar.
nice inintitive for good old dead dow, but 'common sense' and 'minor tweaks' are not the words u should use

[corncobman]

What would you like to see as far as Tau vehicle cap is concerned? I have thought about increasing the Hammerhead vehicle cap cost but I'm not sure about that.

I am actually thinking of reducing the power of IG's tier 3 in some way.

The changes are minor in the sense that they are stat tweaks and the gameplay hasn't changed all that much.

[Zallis]

One thing I'd like to see about the vindicare assassin. Increase his accuracy to 100%, but change the damage or the refire rate so that his DPS stays the same. As it stands, if he misses a shot, it's going to be a while before the next shot comes. Further more, it makes his assassination scope ability underperform, because if he misses one shot, you're only going to get 1 more with the ability active.

Granted, he may not be missing all that often, but when he does, it's aggravating.

[corncobman]

Added. Also added:

Eldar:

Webway Gate no longer counts in Annihilation

Orks:

Squiggoth Big Shoota FOTM penalty reduced from 0.35 to 0.25 (25% FOTM accuracy)
Squiggoth Zzzap Gun FOTM penalty reduced from 0.6 to 0.4 (35% FOTM accuracy)

Imperial Guard:

Guardsmen Plasma Gun damage decreased from 34/54 to 28/48

Dark Eldar:

Raven now requires Tier 2, Short Circuit ability requires Tier 3

Tau:

Hammerhead cap cost increased from 3 to 4
Krootox cap cost increased from 3 to 4
Greater Knarloc cap cost decreased from 5 to 4

[Maktaka]

Just remembered something I suggested way back for the 1.10 patch:

Halve the recharge time of the Marauder's three bombing runs. Halve the effect of all three abilities as well (initial damage, burn damage, ranged damage reduction, etc). This keeps the unit more frequently useful (once every 60 seconds kinda sucks) without making it more powerful.

[corncobman]

Good idea. Thanks Maktaka.